Languages vs. Platforms?

andyfsu99 inputs: "Recently I've noticed the increasing confusion between Java the language and Java the platform. Recruiters and project managers routinely ask for a numeric "rating" of a developer's Java skills. Do they mean Java the language (OO concepts, syntax, libraries, etc)? Or Java the platform (EJB, JCA, JSP, etc)? How do you answer this question? Clearly, Sun is pushing the platform definition. How will this effect the evolution of emerging techologies like C# and .NET? Will major new languages be forever coupled with platforms moving forward?"

platform is really just "experience", I think.

[dmorin]

When you hear "platform" think "body of work that exists in the language that is available for your use" (regardless of who writes or sponsors it). Years ago if I interviewed somebody for a C++ job and asked them if they'd ever used the wxWindows library or the RogueWave++ library I would not have thought of it as a C++ platform question. It simply would have given me an idea about the variety of experience they have with the language. If I need Swing programmers then I don't really care if they have JNDI experience.

Having said that, relevant experience is important. If I'm doing all server work, and I have one guy with 5 years doing all Swing and client side GUI stuff, and another guy with 5 years doing J2EE, then you can call it language or platform all you want, but I call it relevant experience. That's nothing new. The same rules apply as they always have -- sure, maybe the Swing guy has enough experience with the language that he can get up to speed in the new domain, but I will likely save time by hiring the guy who is more familiar with the platform. However, if my 5yr swing guy is up against a 6month J2EE guy, then I would be more likely to take the gamble on the Swing guy.

Re:platform is really just "experience", I think.

[jeffy124]

you're probably already aware of this, but swing has not been out 5 years yet. I was only introduced in (i think) 98. Overall, however, I argee with what your point is.

Re:platform is really just "experience", I think.

[The Mayor]

Yeah, and J2EE is even newer than Swing. BTW, I think Swing has been out since '97. But, on this point we're just squabbling over semantics.

Re:platform is really just "experience", I think.

[smashdot]

I am almost positive that Swing was released in 1997.

Re:platform is really just "experience", I think.

[DGolden]

Recently, I've found myself havng to look for a new job - browsing the listings, I've lost track of the huge number of adverts looking for people with things like "10 years Java experience" and other gems. :-)

Re:platform is really just "experience", I think.

[supersnail]

The "java platform" is not just experience and folk wosdom.

It is a standard well defined set of facilities (JVM, comiler, JAR files et. etc. ) which a java platform must support, plus, at a higer level of protocols for defining things like javabeans and EJBs. These are not vague fuzzy conventions: a platform either supports EJBs or it doesn't, an IDE can support java beans or it cannot.

This is very different from say "C" where you have the language and a set of library functions which are very precisely defined and thats it.

Programming C/C++ for OS/390 CICS has very little in common with coding MFC programs for windows apart from the language itself. Programming Java usings EJBs is pretty much the same for beans residing on OS/390 cics as it is for "COM+" NT based beans.

Recruiters?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when do recruiters have any idea what they are talking about?

Platform

[FortKnox]

If you understand EJB's and J2EE in general, odds are you have a good OOD background. But I still think that design (specially OO) is one of the most crutical skills to have, so don't exclude that.