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Programming Books Media Book Reviews IT Technology

The Practice of System and Network Administration 187

Posted by timothy from the practice-should-be-perfect dept.
Amy Rich writes: "If you're are, or want to be, a professional sysadmin, buy this book! I've been doing UNIX system administration for nearly ten years now, and I've never seen another book like this on the market. Limoncelli and Hogan do a fantastic job of describing the 'whys' behind many of the best practices in the systems and network administrator world. I wish this book had been around when I started out; it would have saved so many headaches as I 'learned the hard way.' Read on (below) for the reasons Amy is so enthusiastic about this book, and to see if it might fit your situation.
The Practice of System and Network Administration
author Thomas A. Limoncelli and Christine Hogan
pages 773
publisher Addison Wesley
rating 9.5
reviewer Amy Rich
ISBN 0-201-70271-1
summary Fantastic high level book about successfully administrating computer systems and networks. Learn the best practices of the pros, developed through years of trial and error.

Though not a nitty gritty technical book, this volume is a must have for every professional sysadmin, regardless of skill level or the technology she uses. The book focuses on the methods used by successful system administrators to build, support, and grow their networks. For the novice admin, it offers a good big-picture look at the most important "whys" of system administration. For the intermediate admin, it has great advice on how to balance fire fighting with project work that will help strengthen the infrastructure and lead to less emergency handling. For the senior admin, there are gems of design wisdom and sections on how to deal with being in a managerial or team leader role. Because it's more high level, this book is even a good buy for people who manage sysadmins but are not themselves technical.

What's Covered

The book is broken down into four major parts, The Principles, The Processes, The Practices, and Management. The chapters in each section are conveniently split into the "basics," the "icing" (things to concentrate on after all of the basics have been accomplished), and some exercises at the end to help the reader apply the covered information to her own situation. The authors back up their sound advice with many case studies and, often tragically humorous, war stories that really drive home the salient points. The BOFHs among us will certainly love some of the follies that the book recounts.

The Principles

This chapter deals with fundamental issues sysadmins encounter and how to define a site-wide infrastructure. The topics range from desktop and server setup, to security, debugging, and ethics. Of particular interest to me were the latter three. I was hoping that the security section would give a bit more detail about a layered security approach as part of the policy. The authors offered good pointers on developing a site security policy without going into specifics, though. The debugging section was spot on, and something that even your help desk people should read. Instead of the hit-or-miss technique that so many inexperienced people use to diagnose problems, this gave a thorough outline of how to methodically determine and fix a problem. In light of the current Enron fiasco, the ethics section was quite timely. How do you do the right thing (or even determine what that is) and then not get stuck as the scapegoat? Though they're not lawyers, Limoncelli and Hogan offer some sound advice and quote from the SAGE Code of Ethics.

The Processes

This section entails how to create the framework for making successful changes to your infrastructure. Topic highlights include change management and revision control, server upgrades, maintenance windows, and service conversions. Change management is one of the most perilously neglected portions of the system administration field today. How should changes be made to the systems so that they are as seamless as possible? Who changed what, when? How do you get back to a known state? My one nit is that I would have liked to see a bit more about automation (rsync, cfengine, et al) discussed in this chapter, especially in dealing with upgrades and service conversions.

The Practices

The authors choose a few important services to discuss in detail here:

  • The helpdesk
  • Customer care
  • Data centers
  • Networks
  • Email service
  • Print service
  • Data recovery
  • Remote access
  • Software depots
  • Service monitoring

These topics were well covered, but the one omission from this section was web service (and possibly a section on Usenet, though that's waning in popularity these days). The namesapces chapter from the Principles section would have also flowed better as part of a DNS chapter in this section. One especially amusing story in the monitoring chapter describes an alarm system in a machine room calling the on-duty sysadmin in the wee hours of the morning to tell him, in a sultry female voice, I'm hot. I'm wet. Too bad his wife answers and thinks it's a prank call when it's really a broken HVAC system!

Management

This section covers how to best deal with the human side of system administration and really explores how people can actually like their jobs instead of just slogging through them every day. There's some outstanding advice on how to deal with difficult situations (time management, difficult people, professional development, keeping people motivated and managing them well, etc). This is also the first book that I know of that includes salary negotiating tips for sysadmins. The management section could almost stand alone as a book geared towards the particular problems that many sysadmins experience.

Other bits

Unlike most other books, the introduction and the appendices are also very worthwhile reads. The introduction covers the three fundamental things that ever site should already be doing: using a ticketing system, handling quick requests right, and starting every host in a known state. The first two appendices cover the various hats that sysadmins wear and "what to do when..." situations. The latter is extremely valuable, and is also available from the book's web site.

In all, this book receives an enthusiastic thumbs up!"

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The Practice of System and Network Administration

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  • Is there any forums, or online discussions, that cover this sort of thing. I'm thinking, kind of like http://www.macosxhints.com/ but of a less MacOS X specific nature.

  • Not a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Wingchild ( 212447 ) <brian.kern@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:22AM (#3193745)
    Books like this need to be written, disseminated, and then force-fed to anyone who wants to touch Systems Administration for a profession - or even work with sysadmins tangentally. I've spent too much time justifying my practices and beliefs about administration to people who had precisely zero working knowledge of the art; would that we lived in a world where this was no longer necessary!

    *sighs*. I can keep dreaming. :)
    • Yeah, if only... people were all as intelligent as ...insert name here... then there would be no war and all that.

    • Re:Not a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Vinson Massif ( 88315 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:34AM (#3193801) Homepage
      Interesting you refer to it as an art. My view of SA is that of a craft or trade. While post-secondary education (of some sort, not necessarily CS or CE) is important, the job demands an apprenticeship period with a a mentor that has been there a while. The unfortunate reality is that may SA's get started by being dropped in without any support around them.

      • Indeed, system administration is more of a trade. Writing code is an art. Many people don't even realize that "programmer" and "sysadmin" are not the same thing.
        • This no clear boundary between art and trade. Writing code gives greater capacity for art-like behaviour, perhaps, but that is all. Code can be entirely craft like - most of it is, and code that is autogenerated is not even craft-like.

          Most programmers have oversized egos as it is, and going on about how 'code is art' doesn't help the matter.

      • Sysadminning - the Art (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Wingchild ( 212447 ) <brian.kern@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:46AM (#3193854)
        I got started by being dropped into the middle of the mix, myself. I was doing web coding for the University of Florida's Office of the University Registrar, when, in short order, two previous admins bailed out (after being passed up for promotions and raises - ah, politics). As the only guy left who knew the systems, I had to take up the banner and carry us forth as best I could.

        I just really took to systems administration. Few things please me more than to see my machines running quietly, humming along and making other people productive. I approach it like an art, treat it like an art, a chance for me to develop skills and express them while doing some good for the community I'm serving at any given time.

        I guess it's really a matter of one's perception. At least my job satisfaction is usually pretty high. :)

      • Re:Not a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)

        by daniel_isaacs ( 249732 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @10:27AM (#3194044) Homepage
        Interesting you refer to it as an art. My view of SA is that of a craft or trade.

        In any trade or craft, when it is done well it is indistiguishable from art.

        There is a reason the Jedi appeal to us generally. We've been down the path of the Master and the apprentice. We appreciate wisdom. And we practise a largely misunderstood, but vital craft. The sympathies are numerous.

        • I am both Sys Admin and a profesional piano player.

          Sys Admin is not an art pure and simple.

          Want to be an artist? Paint, write, put performances, dance, play a musical instrument, write a movie, program a game perhaps.

          To keep a datacentre running smoothly is not an art, is a profession that requires a methodic organized approach. There is no art in writing a perl script, jump starting a machine or configuring a DNS server.

          • Actually, I believe the outward result is a methodical, organized approach. The actual process of getting there requires creativity.

            What is playing piano but getting the fingers to the right keys at the right time, with the right pressure?

            What is painting but applying pigments to a canvas?

            What is system administration but typing commands at the right time into the right computers, and plugging in cables in the right places?

            For all of them, it's everything that happens "in between" that represents the art of the task. Now, if you want to get into a discussion over range of creative expression, that's a completely different story.

            • Re:Not an art, don't behave like programmers. (Score:4, Insightful)

              by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @12:14PM (#3194692)
              By your definition, the kid working at Baskin Robbins making your sundae is an artist. Kind of trivializes musicians and painters, doesn't it?

              You seem to claim that if there are many ways of fulfilling a technical requirement, the act of choosing one way and implementing it makes one an artist.

              Complexity does not equal art. Never has, never will.
              • By your definition, the kid working at Baskin Robbins making your sundae is an artist. Kind of trivializes musicians and painters, doesn't it?
                I saw a "kid" working at a A&W parlor (like a Baskin Robbins) once. He was able to toss ice cream in the air and have it land in the cone, juggle spoons, and generally keep the customers entertained.

                I would classify that as an "art". Likewise, I would call keeping up with the needs of users while meeting the demands of management a form of art -- particularly if users are productive and there are few or no complaints. Sysadmins don't just work on machines. They deal with everyone from data entry clerks to the owner/CEO of a given company. And keeping BOTH those candle-ends burning brightly is NO parlor trick.

                -Jhon
              • "By your definition, the kid working at Baskin Robbins making your sundae is an artist. Kind of trivializes musicians and painters, doesn't it?"

                Not at all, unless musicians and painters have an opinion of themselves higher than it should be.

                I play the Horn in F and the Irish Tin Whistle. Music is an art, so are trades and skills when done particularly well.
          • I am both a sysadmin and a Jedi Master! HAH! BEAT THAT!

        • There is a reason the Jedi appeal to us generally. We've been down the path of the Master and the apprentice.

          Daniel Isaacs the Sysadmin?
          From what Ive heard you should probably be sympathizing with the Sith.

      • Re:Not a bad idea (Score:5, Funny)

        by rhaig ( 24891 ) <rhaig@acm.org> on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @11:21AM (#3194360) Homepage
        I'd call it more of an art... Black art.

        Yes, you have to have some sort of apprenticeship, and all the book-learning in the world won't be enough when you get neck deep in the workings, but I don't know if it's a skill.

        Let's face it, most good sysadmins are lazy. The do something once the best way they can, and hopefully dont have to touch it for a long time. There's definately some art in laziness.

  • It's good to see... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xtermz ( 234073 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:25AM (#3193754) Homepage Journal
    ... Books about general topics/practices. If you focused an admin book towards a specific OS (ie NT, Unix, whatever), you could easily wind up with a admin who freaks out when dealing with a different OS on the network. I prefer to see books deal with the overall scope of a topic , rather than focusing down on a specific product. ( ie. You buy a book on XML and get to learn everything you ever wanted to know about MSXML... um...ok...but what if you're a unix geek )..
    • I prefer to see books deal with the overall scope of a topic, rather than focusing down on a specific product.

      I dunno - I think I'd freak out if my doctor told me, "Well, I really don't worry about the details. I'm more of a 'mammal specialist'." ;-)
      • True, true...but I think I'd freak out more if my doctor told me "I don't know a thing about mammals; I just work on people." Or if my endocrinologist told me "I don't know a thing about people; I just work on glands." Or if my surgeon told me "I don't know a thing about medicine; I just cut people open."

        We need books that deal with the general. We also need books that deal with the specific. There's a great lack of the former great surplus of the latter. Looking for a happy medium...

  • Changing jobs/roles (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chocky2 ( 99588 ) <c@llum.org> on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:28AM (#3193768)
    Personally I'd reccommend this for novice to average people who's role is changing or who are changing job to sysadmin in a different company or environment.

    A lot of the skills and behaviours people pick up will be heavily flavoured by the environment in which they picked them up; this book will help people to understand the common practices in sysadmining - what changes and what stays the same in different environments. Sysadmining in a university is very different to in an ISP or in a tech-corporation or in a non-tech-corporation.

  • Not just for Unix either (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rob_from_ca ( 118788 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:29AM (#3193773)
    In fact, probably _especially_ for NT admins. NT admins often seem to lack the exact background, sensitivity, and discipline that this book is talking about. Even though some of things are hard to implment (revision control for configurations, etc), the principles apply to _all_ production systems.

    This is the best sysadmin book I've ever read. This plus a practical how-to book like USAH and O'Reilly's Unix Backup and Recovery are the three cornerstones that everyone should start with as a starting sysadmin. This book in particular will save you 2-3 years of frustration unless you work in a very disciplined shop.

    • Re:Not just for Unix either (Score:4, Informative)

      by duplicate-nickname ( 87112 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @10:04AM (#3193932) Homepage
      Having worked as an NT sys admin for 5 years now, I have to totally agree with you. Most of the administrators in the NT world are not professionals and completely lack the skills necessary to run a large network.

      Why is this? My guess is that it comes from the boom in NT/2000 as a NOS over the last 8 years. Figure that in the early 90's there was no such think as a Windows system administrator, and now there are several hundred thousand. Many have little experience in a professional network environment (unless they came from the Unix or Netware world). Most are desktop support personel who were promoted from one Windows platform (3.x/9x) to another (NT/2000). I'm sorry, but the skills needed to troubleshoot an office installation don't translate into those needed in designing an enterprise directory structure. Of course, Microsoft only made matters worse by then certifying any joker that could pick up a book.

      • Re:Not just for Unix either (Score:5, Funny)

        by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @11:03AM (#3194231) Homepage
        Of course, Microsoft only made matters worse by then certifying any joker that could pick up a book.

        HEY! I resemble that remark!

        (I passed three NT4 certs without ever having SEEN any variety of NT - only having read three books =)
        • I would venture to guess that this is true of any certification (and not just Microsoft). I have talked to plenty of people that have gotten certifications just by reading a book and then have gone to take the test. In thier defence, they typically were people that have been in the industry for a while and already had a good handle on the 'big picture' to begin with. A few of them were just smart beyond belief and really, all they did was look at a book for a few days and pass a cert test for something they had never working with before.
        • I got my NT4 MCSE thru self-study while in tech support. Became a NT admin afterwards, and now do UNIX. Ah have SEEN the light!
      • I'm sorry, but the skills needed to troubleshoot an office installation don't translate into those needed in designing an enterprise directory structure.

        There is more to this statement. The reason that Microsoft is an amazing marketing company is because they do not sell their ideas to the people that are going to be implementing it. They market to the business people of the world that tell people like the /. audience what to do. Here is an example: Microsoft Exchange. Exchange is the worst program in the world! But why do companies run it? (Because my boss when to a microsoft presentation and told me to install it!!!) Anyways, to get back to the point. They market their products to managers by letting them think that every program is as easy to install as Office, which pretty much any idiot can do. So when my boss hears about Exchange, he assumes it is configurable just as Office and hence Exchange is used.

  • Where do I find a good price for this book?

  • Direct link to the BN page for the book... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Akardam ( 186995 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:36AM (#3193815)
    http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInqu iry.asp?isbn=0201702711 [barnesandnoble.com]

    Not trying to whore karma, but I do think it's silly to have to go through that stupid bfast link.

  • See Also: The Unix System Administration Handbook (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:43AM (#3193839)
    The Unix System Administration Handbook [admin.com] has been around a long time and also an excellent book for any System Administrator.

    Nemeth, Evi and Garth Snyder, Scott Seebass, Trent R. Hein. UNIX System Administration Handbook, Third Edition. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. 2001. ISBN 0-13-020601-6.

    Definitely worth picking up a copy.

    • Re:See Also: The Unix System Administration Handbo (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I agree that this is also a great book to pick up. This is, in fact, the book that I did cut my teeth on as a novice sysadmin (back when it was Ed 1, the yellow book). the UNIX System Administration Handbook is my favorite book for learning about specific tools for UNIX, but Limoncelli and Hogan's book cover high level design ideas which the UNIX System Administration Handbook doesn't really get into.
    • YES!! the purple book! thorough, drily funny, and heavy enough to throw at obstinate users (while soft enough to keep from damaging them permanently.) somehow manages to combine a decent amount of background with good walkthroughs for common tasks. definitely worth the $80 list--pays for itself in saved admin time (and reduced occurrence of stupid mistakes, too.)
    • Actually, the Nemeth book really sucks.

      They never miss a chance to slam solaris - which is most admins' bread and butter. And the gratuituous attacks are far from based on facts - they're extremely misleading.

  • Best *New* Price (Score:5, Informative)

    by duplicate-nickname ( 87112 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @09:50AM (#3193870) Homepage
    Get it at Bookpool for $39.95....seems to be the best price out there.

    http://www.bookpool.com/.x/k9wrskqsu1/ss/1?qs=0201 702711 [bookpool.com]

  • The sample chapter is hilarious! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I downloaded the PDF of appendix B off their web site. It looks pretty dry but towards the end they started inserting jokes. I hope the whole book is this funny!

  • OT: TeX (Score:2, Interesting)

    by acaird ( 530225 )
    Anyone else look at the appendix and think "TeX"? Looking at the PDF document info, it came from "book.tex"... :)

    TeX [tug.org] is a most excellent portable typesetting system that is all ascii based (that is, works on nearly all platforms, goes well with CVS, vi, emacs, and automated scripts and is easily legible even before being processed into a beautifully formatted document) and free.

    Hey, I said this was off topic, but it warms my heart to see TeX used these days. Plus, TeX is bug free [tex.ac.uk].

    • You make it sound like TeX is something rarely used...? In the physical sciences, you're not going anywhere without... That is, most use the LaTeX macros. I used it in my thesis [digbib.uio.no], and my uncle, who is a professional typographer, said that very few professional typographers of today would produce something of the same typographical quality.

    • TeX, make, and CVS (Score:2, Interesting)

      by petej ( 36394 )
      It's better than that. Tom came to Old Bay SAGE and talked about the process of writing the book, and he said they used TeX for content, make for assembling the chapters and the book, and CVS for coordinating changes. Tom and Christine applied SysAdmin principles to writing the book!

  • Appendix B.36 ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by martial ( 107984 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @10:36AM (#3194095)
    Looks like they have good advices for _everybody- in this book ... look at the appendix "B.36 My Dishwasher Leaves Spots on My Glasses"

  • Does it give ideas on how to deal with BWIs? (Score:4, Funny)

    by nologin ( 256407 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @10:42AM (#3194126) Homepage

    I'd buy the book, if it has a good set of guidelines on how to properly handle the dreaded BWI (Boss With Ideas). Does it have anything covering this issue?

    Personally, I've always found it difficult when a boss (with a non-technical background) insists on using his idea even if it will cause the rest of the network, which you invested thousands of hours of your work, to disintegrate itself down to a ugly mess.

    • Re:Does it give ideas on how to deal with BWIs? (Score:4, Informative)

      by turbine216 ( 458014 ) <turbine216 AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @11:11AM (#3194297)
      It probably doesn't.

      The best advice anyone ever gave me in regards to handling the BWI-types is this:

      Know ahead of time what your boss is going to ask of you, and be knowledgable enough to offer alternatives.

      Most sysadmins that I've dealt with have been a little too quick to instantly condemn the BWI as being an ignorant prick, when you really can't blame the guy for being such (well, maybe you can blame him for being a prick). Usually, these people honestly have no idea what kind of burden they're going to be putting on you, your coworkers, and your network. And most SA's will respond accordingly, leveraging exorbiatant costs or technical jargon against the BWI's ideas. This is ALWAYS the wrong way to approach the situation.

      The best way to sort the affairs of these BWI's, then, is to give them an alternative. Most of the sysadmins that i described above usually had no clue as to what kind of work these BWI's were trying to get done, and thus had no clue as to solving the problem in a more effective manner. That's where the above advice comes in. Get to know the BWI and his (or his department's/division's/group's) work. Figure out how to solve the problem WITHOUT simply saying "that's impossible" or "do you know what kind of problems that's gonna cause?". There's always more than one way to skin a cat - and a good SA is the guy who knows a few of them.
    • Yes. It has a section titled, "How to manage your boss".
    • Dilbert: "What color database do you want?"
      PHB: "I think the mauve ones have the most RAM."

      I remember carefully talking my boss out of buying a million dollar performance management package that *only* worked on Solaris, would require another quarter million in hardware, and only served to make pretty pictures from sar output. They ran a free audit on a bunch of our heavily used servers and confirmed what we already suspected-- we were fine, we didn't need their stuff. My boss finally agreed not to buy the software, but I think he was really heartbroken over it. He loved the graphics.

      "But look! You can drill down!"

      Really, the answer to this problem is finesse. Most PHBs are fundamentally well-intentioned, they just don't understand all the issues. They aren't supposed to, that's your job. So when they show up at work excited about the all-in-one doodad they heard about on the radio on the way to work, you just have to be a little patient. Do a little research. Be tactful. Say, "Wow, that Doodad seems to be a really interesting product, unfortunately they only recommend it for use up to 50 users and we have 10,000."

      Treat the PHB like an idiot (even if he's acting like one) and he'll get defensive and insist on throwing his weight around. Be respectful and maybe even a little submissive and you'll earn his trust. Then life gets a lot simpler.

      Sarah
      • Do it yourself. It's not all that difficult with pretty much ANY performance monitoring tool to spit out numerical data, then suck it into a spreadsheet. I built a system like this for an Win2000 network I was on; each server, every 15 minutes, would record performance data. Every day, yesterdays data would be vacu-sucked into a database. Then, at leisure, all sorts of wonderful charts, graphs, maps, trends, anything, really, could be spewed back out. Makes it bloody easy to track peak hours, faulty apps, and determine when, and how much, new hardware you're going to need.
  • Ah, THAT's why I get spots on my glasses! I think I'll have to buy this book. :-)

  • Review on Freshmeat (Score:3, Informative)

    by skunkeh ( 410004 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @10:50AM (#3194174)
    Freshmeat are carrying a review of this book as well:

    http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/338/ [freshmeat.net]

    It gets a resounding thumbs up over there as well - I'm a first year Computer Science degree student at the moment but I'm sorely tempted to get it anyway, it looks like this one isn't going to get outdated any time soon.

    • Reality is: There really hasn't much changed in the basics of SysAdministration over the decades...

      I know guys who did it in the early and late 70's and I was in some parts lucky enough to learn from them. The way is still the same, just the enviroment has changed (e.g. now there's windows).

      That's about it though.
  • rather than play the pronoun game, and since the english language doesn't have a neuter-gender, I find it easier to read "their" or even "his or her" rather than "her". It's commonly accepted practice to write things to avoid gender or to use the male gender as the default gender. I tend to lean towards "their" even if it's not grammatically correct for singular/plural usae reasons.

    Example: rather than "and some exercises at the end to help the reader apply the covered information to her own situation", I would have said "and some exercises at the end to help the readers apply the covered information to their own situations".

    does that make me a pig? I don't think so, I just want some thing that's easy to read.

    • You're not a pig.... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by defeated ( 449449 )
      I'm female, and I'd rather just read "his" in place of all this P.C. crap.

    • I have some relatives who are uncomfortable working with black people. Times change. Deal with it.
      • um, I just find it hard to read. I'd rather it was "his or her", or "their". "Her" is no more PC than "his". It's just the grammatical equivalent of affirmative action.

        Caling me a racist because I'd prefer something was written in a less-sexist manner is kind of assinine.
        • As a first note, the race issue was brought in as a comparison. The parent poster didn't say or imply that you were a racist. Also, that poster's comment was to the effect that saying "his" and saying "her" are interchangeable in this day and age, and your finding it hard to read is your problem, not the author's.

          Now, you should not necessarily take my comment to indicate that I agree, because while I see the parent poster's point, I don't think you're coming from nowhere, since there's a great deal of precedent for using the male pronoun in non-gender specific conversation. Still, the view that "his" is more appropriate than "her" in this case is merely precedent, so you may want to give some thought to why you find it harder to read.

          Virg
          • for fucks sake! (in a frustrated sense, not an angry one) I didn't say "his" was more appropriate, I said I'd rather read "his or hers" or "theirs".

            I find it harder to read because I don't see it very often and when I do see it, I think I missed something an do back to see if we referred to a female somewhere specifically. It just doesn't flow the same for me. I don't need to "give any thought" to why I find it harder to read, I just do.

            I still say using "her" in place of "him" in a gender neutral usage is the grammatical equivalent of affirmative action, and it's silly. If you don't want to use male gender, why is it any less inappropriate to use female gender?
            • > for fucks sake! (in a frustrated sense, not an angry one) I didn't say "his" was more appropriate, I said I'd rather read "his or hers" or "theirs".

              Actually, you'd be grammatically accurate to say that "his" is more appropriate. I know this may seem like a turnaround, but reread my entire post, and you'll see that I tend to fall on the side of "he" for gender-neutral grammar in general use. As to the concept of affirmative action language, that's a personal thing. I tend to switch between "he" and "she" because I pick whichever falls into my head while I'm writing, and that seems to be evenly divided. Your implication is that I (or anyone) would choose "she" instead of "he" because of political reasons, but that's not the case here. My use of "she" instead of "he" is more closely the grammatical equivalent of a random number generator, so appropriateness does not enter into my figuring.

              Lastly, calling someone's decision to try to change an established rule (even a grammatical one) silly is trivializing to that person's political beliefs, and it's insulting. You need to choose your words more carefully. Being right is no excuse for being condescending.

              Virg

          • . The parent poster didn't say or imply that you were a racist. Also, that poster's comment was to the effect that saying "his" and saying "her" are interchangeable in this day and age, and your finding it hard to read is your problem, not the author's.


            I largely disagree. 'His' and 'her' are not generally used interchangeably. Standard practice is still to use 'his' as the common gender pronoun, and 'their' has gained significant usage. I dispute that 'her' is widely used as a common gender pronoun.

            You can't support an artificial change to the English language, and then complain that the fact native readers of English find it hard to read -- if you do, you're just burying your head in the sand.

            You can, however, promote an artifical change to the English language, and justify it on the basis that the anticipated social benefits outweigh the inconvenience to the reader unaccustommed to the new usage. But that's not the same thing.
            • Well, then I'd like to support the artificial change of the reading of both paragraphs of my post, not just the first one, and complain that in racing to argue the first point you didn't get my whole message. In the second paragraph, you will see that I agree that precedent validates the use of "his" in gender-neutral settings. I also largely disagree that using "her" in gender-neutral settings is standard use. My comment was a suggestion for rhaig to consider why it seemed unnatural, not a suggestion that it really was unnatural.

              Virg

    • I'm usually never bothered by using the feminine pronouns for the general gender. I can certainly see that some people (especially women) care enough to make pronoun choice an issue. For example, 30 years ago, nobody used "Ms." as a title, now if I see a "Mrs." or a "Miss" on a letter it's usually a sign that somebody's grandmother is mailing letters.

      Using 'their' for a the general singular pronoun is apparently much more common and accepted in England. However, that seems more awkward (to me) than using 'her'.

      Michael Spivak, famed mathematician and TeXpert, created an option called Spivak Pronouns which address the issue too:


      The spivak pronouns are
      E - subjective
      Em - objective
      Eir - possessive (adjective)
      Eirs - possessive (noun)
      Emself - reflexive

      These seem very awkward to me, but who knows what will be in common use in 30 years...

      ---------

    • you're not a pig

      you're a jackass
    • Wow. It's amazing that one word choice can create so much off topic controversy. I did not, in fact, have a political agenda. I don't find that either gendered pronoun is superior to the other, and I picked her because _I_ am female.
  • If you're a sysadmin who's convinced "there's got to be a better way", check out www.infrastructures.org [infrastructures.org]

  • A quote from the SAGE ethics page (Score:5, Funny)

    by El_Smack ( 267329 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @12:16PM (#3194703)
    "System administrators will not exercise their special powers to access any private information..."

    I guess I'll have to stop using telekinesis to see which of the secretaries aren't wearing panties today.


    • Damn right you'd better. Telepathy is MUCH easier, especially through walls, and you can still find out what color they are if you're wrong.

      Virg

      • Damn right you'd better. Telepathy is MUCH easier, especially through walls, and you can still find out what color they are if you're wrong


        Hey, telepathy will only tell you whether (or what colour) underwear they (or someone else) think they are wearing.


        Remote viewing is more reliable.

        • >Remote viewing is more reliable

          But that would be clairvoyance. Telekinesis would only be useful for remote skirt-lifting (or remote pants-unbuttoning and unzipping, which is so much harder to do serreptitiously), and again it doesn't work through cube walls or desks (well, okay, the lifting does, but the resultant viewing can't), which is very important here.

          Besides, I've only met one person vacuous enough to forget what color her panties were, and she was so incautious that no extraordinary power greater than the ability to stand her conversation long enough for her to uncross her legs was needed for that particular discovery.

          Virg

  • Cannot recommend it highly enough (Score:4, Informative)

    by Ridgelift ( 228977 ) on Wednesday March 20, 2002 @12:36PM (#3194843)
    It's only once and awhile that such a book comes out that can be ranted about. This book truly is the "camel" of System Administration. I work with both Linux and NT, and the book is applicable to both.

    The "Evard's Life Cycle" diagram is essential. I'm surprised I never saw it sooner. Also the first three points are absolute truth.

    1) Use a trouble-ticket system
    2) Manage quick requests right
    3) Start every new host in a known state

    I worked at a computer service company for years, and they did none of these three things. They're losing employees left and right because they can't manage the work effectively.

    Bottom line - buy the book.
  • I was wondering what a story "Particle Systems and System Administration" would be about...I need more sleep...

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