Eclipse 2.0 Released 171
Smelroy writes "The Eclipse IDE version 2.0 was just released. There were several earlier articles on Slashdot found here and
here."
You mean you didn't *know* she was off making lots of little phone companies?
Eclipse 2.0 is going to rock! (Score:2, Troll)
This is great news for Linux!
File handle leak (Score:2, Interesting)
I've written a little java monitor that sits on top of my Gnome menu bar and polls
Re:File handle leak (Score:1)
Re:File handle leak (Score:3, Insightful)
You should see the CVS (Team) integration, by the way, that alone makes it a great IDE.
I've had it open for a week without running into the file handle problem, maybe you used an interim version (integration or nightly build) that has this quirk? You might want to try a newer build in that case.
Re:File handle leak (Score:1, Interesting)
On the console:
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: Couldn't load font "Sans 10" falling back to "Sans 10"
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: Couldn't load font "Sans 10" falling back to "Sans 10"
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: All font failbacks failed!!!!
The error message gives the startup command line and says the "JVM exits with error code=1"
I know its a font problem (*duh*) but which font package am I missing.
Posting anonymously because I don't have my password handy.
Re:File handle leak (Score:1)
I can't figure out how it resolves font names. I don't have a font called 'Sans'. I have lucidasans and a lot of other sans-serif fonts. I don't know too much about X font mechanisms, and I'm not sure if SWT/GTK has its own font-name alias files, uses X fonts directly, or perhaps even uses Java2D to load TrueType fonts.
If you know how to do that, I'd suggest creating a font-name alias for 'Sans' to some font.
Some more detail: you can change the font from the preferences menu in Eclipse, but you need to start it first. (duh too) It shows a list with mostly X font names, as well as "sans" and "serif". Those two fonts don't show up with xlsfonts or xfontsel on my machine.
The "system default" is "Sans", and it doesn't seem to use the GTK theme font in any way.
Re:File handle leak (Score:1)
Regarding the library thing, I guess I'm lucky. I've got these pango-related libs:
/usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0@
/usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0.0.3
/usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0@
and the same libswt-pi-gtk-2047.so
Works like a charm...
EMACS? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:EMACS? (Score:2, Insightful)
I really wonder what is so great about the fact that Eclipse now makes it possible to rewrite all existing Emacs modules in Java, instead of simply using them. Then again, Eclipse seems to be just an IDE, so this critique should rather go to Gnome and KDE, which are more similar in scope with Emacs, just with a little less stability, functionality and comfort.
Read this before you delete Eclipse! (Score:1)
Alt-F does not work.
Don't uninstall Eclipse at this point, as I almost did, and let me save you some time of searching in the bug database to find bug 11912 [eclipse.org].
All you have to do is turn off numlock, and the keyboard shortcuts will work again!
I find it amazing that version 2 of a programming tool still has keyboard problems like this one. Am I the only one with numlock always on (you know, I only need one set of arrows on my keyboard, not two) - and who uses keyboard shortcuts when I am coding?
Re:Read this before you delete Eclipse! (Score:1)
But you need two sets of numbers?
Well, yes... (Score:2)
Re:EMACS? (Score:2)
Re:EMACS? (Score:1)
But I admit that a point-and-click GUI designer will probably not be part of Emacs' JDE in the near future ;-)
I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
How does one live without Intellisense when writing code? Even Forte only shows class members - when it comes time to define parameters, that's where the good times end. No datatypes - no names - no nothing.
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:2)
I get more good code written in vi than anywhere else. I'm sure lots of programmers are more comfortable in Visual Studio, but then again lots of programmers are only comfortable using Visual Basic too. Personally, I've never liked IDE's at all.
It might be time to try again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Then I starting working with other sr. developers who swore by their IDEs. Things that I would suggest are a lot of work were easy for them. (Like moving a class from one package to another.) It's easy because their IDE either did it all for them or it pointed out the problems in an easy way.
Of course the debuggers are incredible. Being able to walk through code and see what happens to my variables is great. System.out.println is a joke is comparision.
Now I can wrap things in try/catch/finally in
My "beef" against IDEs was that they robbed me of a chance to learn. I felt like they wrote the code for me. That's no longer true. I good IDE will match your braces, wrap code in try/catch, create shortcuts for phrases, (do all the "physical labor") but it won't take away the real coding.
I like IDEA [intellij.com] but there are a lot of IDEs that beat vi (according to me).
correction (Score:2)
%s/a joke is comparision/a joke in comparison/
%s/I good IDE/A good IDE/
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:3, Interesting)
Every single thing that you mentioned (brace matching, code macros, abbreviations) are either build into vim or easy ( That said, every other developer on my team uses IDEs most or all of the time. If it works for them, I say more power to 'em. They even used to give me shit for using vim and shells, but they got tired of my already having a way to do every single thing they point out as an "advantage" of their IDE.
The only thing I'd like to see (and may work on one of these days, since vim and ctags are open source) is a better ctags implementation. What I have works well (decent auto complete and very nice tag jumping), but isn't as refined as the systems I see in current IDEs. That is a legitimate plus to JBuilder, IDEA and their ilk. For now.
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:2)
sometimes, definitly not often.
If you say often I would say you program a lot of
How can:
stop program
open editor
inserting prints
compiling
linking
restart program
open output and find the right printout be faster than:
start debugger
view your variables
Hu? Probaly I should be fair: restart program with debugger, set breakpoint or adjust outobreak options(break on segv, e.g.), wait for hitting a (auto) breakpoint and start tracing.
Nothing is faster, I have corrected my error before you have restarted your application.
Not to count the fact that you likely have tor emove your prints again.
angel'o'sphere
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:2)
I have not.
You have to link.
I have not.
I'm not talking about the number of keystrokes.
I'm talking about "time in real live".
I'm not familar with gdb
angel'o'sphere
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:1)
Like your co-workers, I'll probably give up trying to convince you soon but I thought I'd shot it for now.
Do the automatic try/catch blocks you've scripted catch the right exception? If my code throws a SQLException then it catches only that. If it can throw multiple exceptions, it will just catch Exception.
As for finding getters and setters, I have a preference for the nice looking method list on the left. However, that's not what I was talking about. My IDE *builds* the getter/setter for me. Just the other day I had a class that didn't do much more than store a bunch of values. After I defined it's 72 fields I needed 72 getters and 72 setters. Defining the fields took about an hour (it required a little thought) and building the getters/setters took less than a second.
Another thing I didn't metion was auto-imports. If I use a hashtable (or whatever) for the first time in that class it asks me if I want to include it in my imports at the top. It also organizes my imports nicely.
Auto-code generation is nice.
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:1)
I guess this is sort of a moot point. If I'm try to show that IDE's don't have too many advantages, I'm not really succeeding--it would be pretty safe to call Emacs and IDE IMHO.
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:2)
I'm on the anti-ide side of this argument - I've used some recent ones and they still bug me. And I still have lots of beef with the over-use and over-complication of OO. However, I will point out here that getters and setters are useful. They're there to plan for the future. By taking would could have been public variables and wrapping them in trivial get/set functions, you allow the freedom to change the behviour in the future without breaking the class interface. At some point down the road it might be important for your class (or some inheritor of your class) to return some calculated value in place of the variable.
Re:It might be time to try again? (Score:1)
To me though, typing in the actual code takes far less time than thinking up the design.
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:1)
I still don't see anything on the Linux development horizon that holds a candle to Visual Studio. I still get more good code written faster in VS than in any Linux IDE.
Have you tried KDevelop [kdevelop.org]? I'm used to Visual Studio, and found the transition to KDevelop smooth. I especially like that it makes heavy use of automake and autoconf, that it supports CVS, and isn't designed specifically to make KDE applications. The user interface is very similar to that of Visual Studio.
There is also KDE Studio [thekompany.com], which looks similar. I haven't tried this though.
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:2, Informative)
Don't get me wrong, MS did a great job with Visual Studio, especially the
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
These refactorings alone make it worth using Eclipse or one of the equivalent Java IDEs. Once you have them, you wont want to go back.
They don't write for messed up APIs. (Score:1)
Granted you may have to string together multiple different calls (i.e. fork + exec + setuid) under Unix to get the job done but at least every possible permutation for every possible situation isn't in your face as required parameters everytime you try to spawn a child process.
That aside -- I don't like writing Win32 code without Intellisense. Visual Studio.NET is darn cool. BTW, my favorite IDE under Unix is EMACS. Until VS.NET my favorite IDE under Windows was EMACS.
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux (Score:1)
IDEs are for pussies (Score:1)
Re:IDEs are for pussies (Score:1)
Finally GTK Support (Score:4, Interesting)
I use IDEA, it will be interesting to see how it compares. The Eclipse UI alone, last time I tried it, made me hate it.
-Pete
Re:Finally GTK Support (Score:1)
It (gtk version) used to suck half a year ago, but it is fast and quite stable now. One big bonus: it understands the scroll-wheel on your mouse now.
Strange thing: Eclipse has no syntax-colored XML editor. However it has a specialized editor for Eclipse plugin descriptors (plugin.xml files) with a nice syntax-colored xml editor tab. And if you create a plugin using the plugin-creation wizard, you can select an "XML file editor". The generated plugin is a nice syntax-colored XML editor, no programming is required.
That's a complex way to activate a useful feature.
Re:Finally GTK Support (Score:2, Informative)
Sure not out of the box, but there is one.
Head on down to sourceforge and pick up Solar Eclipse [sourceforge.net] jsp and xml syntax highlighting goodness.
I really should set up an account and karma whore more often.
Screenshots? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is without any doubt *THE* most important information a first-timer can get about any program with a GUI.
Friggin "no-screenshot" religion.
Re:Screenshots? (Score:2, Informative)
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/lib
Rational's version on Windows (probably Eclipse 1.0, too):
http://www.rational.com/products/xde/javaed/ind
A free tool, Spindle, that works in Eclipse 2.0:
http://spindle.sourceforge.net/
Here are screenshots (Score:5, Informative)
Well, that's it! Enjoy! There's also an interesting wiki about Eclipse [swiki.net].
Re:Here are screenshots (Score:4, Interesting)
In Metrowerks, can you select a class in the package view, Copy it, select a different package, and then Paste a copy of the first class into the new package, AND the IDE will automatically update the copy's package declaration so that the new code is correct? Eclipse does that.
In Metrowerks, can you tell the IDE to rename a method and automatically rename all callers (and overriders) of the method?
Can you select a block of code and tell Metrowerks to automically extract it into a new method? Eclipse does that.
Can you autocomplete a clas name and have Metrowerks automatically add an "import" statement for the class if you don't already have one? Eclipse does that.
Can you perform a syntax-aware diff on two Java files that ignores declarations that have only been reordered and not changed? Would Metrowerks be able to highlight the particular tokens that have changed on each changed line?
Not to jump on Metrowerks, I'm sure it's fine. But Eclipse is immensely powerful and the UI is very nice, and your attack on it is based on pure ignorance.
Re:Here are screenshots (Score:2)
Re:Here are screenshots (Score:2)
That's exactly WHY you need screenshots. I'm not attacking the quality of the UI, only the lack of a screenshot on the site which is the first step to cure ignorance about something new.
Hope it helps you understand my post better.
Re:Screenshots? (Score:2, Informative)
Ironically, they illustrate a C++ program.
Re:Screenshots? (Score:1)
well.. yes? it's from the CDT project, a c/c++ plugin for eclipse.
Re:Screenshots? (Score:2)
Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
There were no installation instructions. Not that there's anything difficult, unzip in your directory of choice, do some file permission cleanup, you're done. Oh, and be sure to have a Java environment up and running - hey, it's a Java application, of course you better have one!
So, I start Eclipse, and it crashes politely, telling me to look in the log, and where the log is. Nice. A big Java stacktrace, how typical. A Xerces error. After some fumbling around, I understand my problem: I already had Xerces installed, and I had put links to the Xerces jars in my $JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/ext directory. So, those jars had precedence over the ones shipped with Eclipse, a custom IBM Xerces version. Well, ok, let's remove the links.
I restart Eclipse, and it crashes less politely, with a startup screen sticking around until I kill it, and an unsatisfied link error. A symbol missing from a library, now this is quite worse. After spending some time on eclipse.org, I find the solution. Eclipse is compiled against Motif, and ships with a Motif library. But ld doesn't know about that, and tries to link against the system libXm, which is provided by LessTif. Quite badly compatible with Motif, indeed. Solution? Create a startup script along these lines:
#!/bin/bash
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/java/eclipse
So, I restart Eclipse, and it works. Finally. A README would have helped. Very nice, clean, welcoming, and documented. Quite fast, too, faster than Netbeans, anyway. I have not spent much time using Eclipse, I have just built a simple "Hello world!" in Java. It's a very pleasing environment. All the usual tedious tasks, such as setting a proper classpath and environment are done through nice and powerful dialogs. It is a very professional environment; you can in a few clicks be ready to debug your project against several Java runtimes, there's a builtin support for Junit and for CVS. The editor is fast enough, even though I keep preferring Vim, and offers powerful completions, code refactoring, etc. All the problems and errors are logged in a very cool ToDo list, where you can also add your own entries. I like that.
Eclipse is written 100% in Java, so how does it come it is noticeably faster than Netbeans? The secret is in th GUI. Eclipse doesn't use Swing or AWT, but another toolkit called SWT. Think of it as an AWT version 2. It offers Java programmers a direct mapping of the system widgets. So, the platform-independancy of Swing is lost, but the gains are tremendous: you get to keep the look and feel of the platform you're running on, and you're much more responsive to user events. The version of Eclipse I downloaded uses Motif. And it uses it very well: it's one of the most clean Motif application I've ever seen. The main problem is that the file browsing dialogs are still the same ultra-loosy ones, which don't hide hidden files, etc. There's another Eclipse version available that uses GTK 2. And of course, there's a Windows version. And soon, a MacOS (X ?) version.
So, what's left to Netbeans? Well, Eclipse doesn't have a GUI editor, and it was one of the few reasons, along with its debugger, that made me use Netbeans. But now that I've seen the text editor and work environment of Eclipse, I might well drop Vim when it comes to Java development, and use Eclipse instead. Clearly, Eclipse enjoys much more support from IBM (and friends) than Netbeans does. The QA is much better it seems, when you look at the final product.
Yep, Sun... you've been Eclipsed!
Eclipse, Vim, and Netbeans (Score:4, Informative)
First off, nice post. It helps that I agree with just about everything you said. When you compare Eclipse with Netbeans, Eclipse is much faster, no matter how you measure that: load time, compile time, reponsiveness of the GUI, etc. Plus, it doesn't have every single possible bell and whistle available pre-installed. I hate the fact that Netbeans loads every single Java thingamajig that has ever been invented. So Netbeans is out.
I still enjoy Vim, but I have Eclipse configured so that I edit Java files with the Eclipse editor, but XML and .properties files are still opened with Vim. It also helps that ^S not only saves, but compiles the current file. Another strong point of Eclipse is the robust history mechanism is has, sort of a built-in single-user CVS. Want to be able to compare your current code with what you saved last Thursday? No problemo.
All in all, nice IDE. I never liked Netbeans and most of the other free Java editors (such as JEdit) are just enhanced text editors with no real benefits over Vim.
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:3, Informative)
54MB is huge, but the convenience that the editor brings make it worth the download.
Best thing I like so far is the organize imports feature (it automatically finds classes you have used in the library and and writes import statements for you automatically), no more api lookup and then copy/paste the package names, and it writes the import statements with each class that's used listed line by line so you know exactly what classes you're using in your code.
Only thing I don't like now is the lack of external directory classpath support. Java allows classpath that ends with a directory but Eclipse forces you to jar up your libraries, which is not a major problem in itself but just inconvenient.
Speed is definitely acceptable (on Windows at least). Of course it's no vi's or notepad's speed but then again which IDE is?
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:2)
Impressions of eclipse (a few months with it) (Score:3, Informative)
As many of you know, Eclipse is written and developed by IBM, all open source (YAY!!). IBMs last product was the hideous VisualAge for Java. This IDE was an abomination to the world of programming. I was forced to use it at school, and I will never forgive my instructor for that. You were stuck in one view, which was nothing like a file view (they ducplicated the view in Eclipse, but it works a lot better now). Getting VisualAge to show you an entire file was a pain in the butt, and if you were able to get to that point, if you messed up any syntax in that file (such as messing up a class declaration or having one to many closing brackets) VisualAge would not let you save the file nor tell you what was wrong. Next with it, all the Java files were hidden in one large database file that VisualAge maintained, exported also sucked.
Ok, so IBM decided drop Visual which was a $800 program or so for professional. Eclipse offers a wide range of features and settings. From here out, I'll be comparing Eclipse to VisualCafe (which I have used most to VisualAge). Eclipse has a decent line formatter that I have been very happy with. It is nothing robust like JIndent, but that is something I hope they would improve upon. Most of the auto formating features are comperable to all other IDEs I have ever used. As far as hotkeys with eclipse, some of them are not as intuitive as others. There is a common hotkey (ctrl-tab), which most IDEs will switch between open files, and eclipse does not follow this; they use ctrl-F6 (dunno). But after you get past that, most of the hotkeys are pretty good.
Speed: This is one thing I have to say I enjoy over VisualCafe. There is the use of SWT vs AWT, which does help a lot. But as far as how it handles the class/method browsers, it works quite a faster. It seems to pick up errors quickly and compiles just like anything else out there.
Eclipse has some other fun built in features such as CVS browser (I think), pluggins, and lots of different views to choose from, all of which are quite customizable. For the Java Virtual Machine, you can choose between 1.3.1 and 1.4, which can cause problems if you have to change code that was originally written in 1.2 or 1.1.7 even. When compiling code, it is smart and will only compile changed files, or code in other files that has been affected.
My use of Eclipse: I work in a dept of about 50 Java developers, which I am now trying to move to Eclipse. Here we do all of our visual development by hand, as to be able to get the exact behaviors we want. I work with projects that have 1500+ files in them, and a few files that are 7000+ lines. Eclipse handles the files well for browsing, but when it comes to a 7000+ line file, it can tend to lag a little (on my P2-233Mhz machine). At any one time Eclipse is running, it seems to use around 60-70 megs of memory, 20 more then VisualCafe, but should not be a big deal for most developers out there.
Eclipse seems to be a very good IDE, and I have been happy with how it has performed. I have been using snapshots for a few months now, and it has become more stable, and I have yet to have it crash on me since its release (in that whole day Friday). Eclipse is a well suited IDE for large project development, as well as small, but seems to be designed to help with large projects.
I am looking forward to more fixes features that IBM and partners will release with Eclipse (such as being able to print SELECTED text).
Re:Impressions of eclipse (a few months with it) (Score:3)
Getting VisualAge to show you an entire file was a pain in the butt, and if you were able to get to that point, if you messed up any syntax in that file (such as messing up a class declaration or having one to many closing brackets) VisualAge would not let you save the file nor tell you what was wrong.
If your teacher did not tell lyou how to use VA properly, This IDE was an abomination to the world of programming. I was forced to use it at school, and I will never forgive my instructor for that.
Well, you could have opened the error output?
I used VA 3.0 a bit. Its a superior IDE, the best I've ever seen besides Eclipse.
The only problem is that it forces you to work in a specific way. If just happen to dislike that you are doomed. Otherwise your productivity doubles in a few weeks.
Everythign is compiled on the fly, errors are impossible. A typical cmpile step does not exist. Just click run, you only can click it if your open file is compileable of course.
BTW: VA is not droped like you say. Ok, so IBM decided drop Visual which was a $800 program or so for professional
And you allways could get a free version of it somewhere somehow in a promotion.
angel'o'sphere
Re:Impressions of eclipse (a few months with it) (Score:2)
All development has moved to WebSphere (WSAD, WSED and so forth).
Support for VA will continue. Handled by the Australians,
Justin Dubs
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:3, Interesting)
The 54 megabyte version is the SDK comes with all the stuff to write your own eclipse plugin. The 20MB version labeled "Executable Binary" is sufficient for anyone who wants to use eclipse. After I found this and banged my head into the wall for not reading the page, I was happier with Eclipse.
The speed is less in SWT as you would think. Swing really isn't that slow. SWT is faster than swing, but not by the leaps and bounds that Eclipse is faster than NetBeans or jEdit. The deal is Eclipse doesn't come with 30 plugins. NetBeans has more plugins (and loads everyone at startup) than any project on Earth will ever use. From FTP support to J2EE server integration. It's a tremendous pain. jEdit lets you configure the plugins that you want. I love jEdit's XML editing (about par with Emacs). Someone should write in XML editing support for Eclipse. Thats my biggest beef with Eclipse.
I thought SWT was cool and I was going to do my current project in SWT. My mind was changed by the potential of Swing. LNF (look and feel) configuration is awesome! I wrote a little class to allow the look and feel to be configured by system properties (which I always load from a configuration file). So, by changing a few entries in a (uncannily similar to samba
Anyhow, in the end, I heard that the benchmarks showed that there really wasn't as big of a difference in speed as there was made out to be.
Want to simulate SWT in Swing?
Type this in main()
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookA
but it will look like motif and not gtk under linux.
Good links!!!
javootoo.com [javootoo.com] links to just about every LNF.
a screenshot on javootoo of SkinLF with aquathemepack [l2fprod.com] my favorite!
audiolaf [utoronto.ca] may allow blind users to use your current app without a rewrite!
Some conversation [sun.com] search for SWT to see I'm not the only crackpot that thinks SWT isn't that much faster (anymore).
Keep in mind that it really doesn't matter if the controls are drawn by Java or the OS, they still have to be drawn and Java2 1.4 isn't stupid such that it doesn't user the available hardware acceleration routines available from the OS. Theoretically, it doesn't matter who draws them if they are both drawn the same way
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:2)
Also, using the real native widgets has some advantages. For example, Eclipse will use your Windows XP theme if you're using one.
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions (Score:1)
Java UI doesn't have to be slow (Score:5, Interesting)
Eclipse is faster than Netbeans because it doesn't use swing.
Hogwash. If you believe jave UI's (including swing) are slow, try giving IDEA [intellij.com] a shot. Even if you don't like the IDE itself (many people swear by it), I consider the UI very fast, and much faster than Eclipse 1.0 on Linux, although I heard Eclipse was much faster on Win32.
A 21 day demo of IDEA is available for download. Try it in addition to Eclipse if you are in the market for a new Java IDE.
I don't work for them or anything, but am very satisfied user of their product, and am much more productive for server side things than on Netbeans. It doens't do everything, but it does what it does very well.
-Pete
Try Java 1.4 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Java UI doesn't have to be slow (Score:2, Informative)
Try this as an experiment: In any Swing application with a resonably large amount of stuff in the menus, click the mouse on the first of the menus and move it back and forth across the rest of the menubar. Now try the same thing in a C++ or SWT application. Notice the difference?
Re:Java UI doesn't have to be slow (Score:3, Insightful)
If anything is a sure sign that there's a problem with speed/memory is the fact that IDEA has a status area showing the current memory usage. A click on it will force a garbage collection. THAT shows you what is wrong with most Java designs built around Swing.
This is not to say all programs designed with Swing suck, but you do need a strong knowledge of the architecture and design built around it to do it well.
How about Perl support? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How about Perl support? (Score:1)
Just do it (Score:1)
Re:How about Perl support? (Score:2)
But when will it support that most popular of languages, Perl? I hear talk, but I don't see action! Is there a serious effort for Perl? That'd rock, and I'd join 'em immediately!
LOL, so they made it open source and now they are forced to support YOUR wish?
Why don't you start the development your own?
Ah, I asume because Eclipse is in Java and you are to old to learn it. Or well, I forgot, Java sucks, is crapy and slow and
Yeah, it has a gc
angel'o'sphere
Re:How about Perl support? (Score:2)
Then you should probably switch your job.
So you can use a language you like more. Gees, why would one do a work he does not like? That bad economics and IT jobs can't be, I would say.
angel'o'sphere
Re:How about Perl support? (Score:2)
ActiveState has a Perl IDE, called Komodo. It's NOT open source, but it has saved me a ton of time. They have a 21-day evaluation version, and if you want a home license it's $29.50 (under 30 bucks, the price point all software should strive for).
Check it out: Komodo [activestate.com] . They have both Linux and Windows versions, and the IDE is based on Mozilla (and other open source technologies). It's kind of a shame they make it closed-source, but it's well worth the money. It also supports many other languages (Perl, Python, PHP, Ruby, Tcl, XML, XSLT and more -- 24 languages total).
Re:How about Perl support? (Score:3, Insightful)
I said if someone was developing a perl plug-in, I'd join them! I didn't say "hey, what the hell, why won't someone do something for me for free".
What I said (quite clearly) was:
1. Is there a serious perl effort?
2. If so, that's cool, AND
3. If so, I'm willing to help!
Geez, just because I don't think I have enough experience to begin the project doesn't mean that I am unwilling to participate and give what I can to the cause. And I don't want to start another parallel effort if others are already working on it.
But given the "just do it yourself and shut up" comments imply that no one in the Perl community cares, and so therefore either this is a new thought, or that I'm insane because no one else cares.
In any case, the "do it yourself or shut up" crowd is a little to anal for my tastes. If you can't provide value to the discussion, then don't bother replying - you'll just end up looking like an a$$hole.
Does it support Emacs key sequences? (Score:2)
I love Eclipse (Score:4, Interesting)
A First Impression (Score:2)
Re:A First Impression (Score:1)
The GTK version is called the "GTK 2" version. What more do you want?
Re:A First Impression (Score:1)
</rant>
Re:A First Impression (Score:2)
Re:A First Impression (Score:2)
Tried running the jar directly - no dice either.
Finally, I dropped to the command line and found I was missing the libgtk-X11-2.0.so.o. A locate couldn't find hide nor hair of it. Got on google and tried to find it - found out it's in GTK2-1.3 or some such RPM. rpmfind and just about every other source for this RPM leads to nowhere.
Ok. Shall I try the motif version now as ABGT did? Or can someone refer me to a site that has a copy of this gtk2-1.3*.rpm?
What I want to know is... why the heck have they got to use GTK for anyway? Just write the whole dang thing in Java and be done with it.
Praise for Eclipse (Score:5, Interesting)
The 'workspace' concept takes a little getting used to, but everything they do is just so slick and well thought out. The debugger is pretty sweet, especially in comparison to something like JBuilder.
The perspective system is really cool; you can choose from many pre-defined perspectives, or define your own. A perspective is a collection of on screen views of your project, a view being an editor, a class broswer, a debug window, and output window, and so forth. I defined an 'edit' perspective, which has a giant edit window, a small class browser window, and a quick display/hide button for the filesystem navigator view. I switch between that and the debug perspective often. Very convenient.
SWT makes this Java app a pleasure. Yes, good swing apps are possible, but *damn* they've done a good job with this thing.
In summation, I urge anyone looking at Java IDE's to give Eclispe a look-see.
No support for web applications? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:No support for web applications? (Score:2)
In the end, we went with IntelliJ's IDEA.
Re:No support for web applications? (Score:1, Insightful)
Precisely!
IDE developers out there, my first and only often criteria for judging any IDE out there is - can I import an existing project easily?
If not, it's not worth it - you're going to have to give me something really spectacular if I'm going to go through the pain of you making this difficult for me. Working with my current project lets me compare your environment to my current one meaningfully.
I didn't like Eclipse 1.0 and hate Websphere Application Studio (I had to endure over an hour uninstalling it the other day) - there seem to be too many "evil wizards" [pragmaticprogrammer.com] and I don't like the metaphors used by IBM - they don't seem intuitive. Eclipse 2.0 will definitely get a look, but I don't imagine I'll stop using IDEA anytime soon.
Re:No support for web applications? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep, same here. I was bewildered with 1.0 because it seemed like a huge oversite. Then I realized that IBM is selling their WebSphere Studio [ibm.com] IDE which is basically Eclipse + plugins for JSP/XML/etc. and it all made sense.
Thought that 2.0 would be different, but I guess not.
-Russ
Key bindings (Score:1)
I'm very happy to see built-in code reformatting, and that you can bind things to the tab key without a modifier. Now I just need to put them together.
Re:Key bindings (Score:2, Informative)
FAQ:Not a Disk Drive Spec - A Development Envir... (Score:2)
You can't even open a file! (Score:2)
It sounds like a nice idea to use in some case, but it should not be a requirement! What if I just downloaded some source code and want to view it in the same color-syntax-highlightng IDE I program in?
Now, this was the experience my co-workers and had when we looked at 2.0 beta -- and this thread is about 2.0 final. Maybe they fixed it?
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:3, Interesting)
Eclipse's "workspace" (the land where projects and source code and whatever else you're using Eclipse to mess with) is just a directory called "workspace". Just put anything in there you want and then right click on your project and select "Refresh". Whammo, it's there.
It is a little arrogant IMHO -- "why would you do anything but put all your files in an Eclipse project?" -- but you get used to it faster than you'd think. I did
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:1)
I had that thought, too, until I realized that it's a layer of abstraction... think of the workspace dir as a working directory. Your source files can reside on another server and be accessed via CVS, WebDAV, FTP, whatever; when accessed, they get copied to the working directory for local access. Working with a local filesystem is just a special case where your working directory is the same as a local filesystem directory.
That all said, I still agree that it's amazingly annoying that you can't just open and edit a file :-/
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:1)
but yes you have to import.. on windows this can be done by drag drop.. dunno about *nix
oh and if you just need syntax coloring, try the included swt samples. one of them can open a java file a display them with eclipse' sysntax coloring
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:3, Informative)
Part of the reason this is done is because Eclipse maintains a history of your files, a la CVS. So if you want to compare what your file looked like last Thursday to your current version, you can. The import requirement bugged me at first, too, but it's really not that big of a deal, especially once you start doing all of your work with Eclipse. After that you just create files in the project and build an Ant script to push them to wherever they need to go.
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:2)
What I want to associate
With Eclipse, this is a step harder, probablyr equiring some scripting. Therte is no reason for them to require that every file go through their BigBrogther Filter just for me to look at it. Its a nice idea to offer it, but a very BAD idea to require it.
Re:You can't even open a file! (Score:2)
Wish other EJB containers were supported better for those of us who pound code for Weblogic, Websphere, Jboss, etc... Great if you are doing Websphere (with the Websphere add on), not had very much luck with Weblogic, a little better with Jboss.
Bloated software (Score:1)
where are the days of efficient coding?
loz
Re:Bloated software (Score:2)
Once you increase your RAM to 256MB or 512MB, you'll find Eclipse will perform just fine. I run it on a 450MHz PIII with 512MB, and it's as fast as any GUI editor ever is.
no support for applets? (Score:1)
Re:no support for applets? (Score:1)
Re:Hard disks (Score:3, Informative)
The concept is basically the same as NetBeans--it just seems (may not be true) that a lot more companies have decided to back Eclipse. The Eclipse folks just took a different path for their IDEs. Very cool that we have a choice between so many good IDEs that are open source.
Re:Proprietary solutions will always lose (Score:2, Insightful)
This is not a dis of Mono, which I think is a fine project and generally a good thing(tm), but the are open source Java implentations. As Mono progesses, it will run into the same issues that the above projects have of being highly compatible, but not 100%. There will always be some compatibility issues.
Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Informative)
All of that is beyond the point I was making, that all of those are furhter along than Mono, and that Mono will run into the same kind of issues they have.
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
I'm done with this thread. I'll let you have the last word.
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Interesting)
GCJ [gnu.org] is a full-featured Java implementation, including introspection and a full JVM. The main features missing are in the GUI: The AWT implementation is not yet usable. But since Eclipse mostly uses its own SWT GUI widgets, it probably wouldn't take much to get it working with GCJ.
Re:A List mirrors (Score:2)
This is OT, but do many Slashdotters even use kazaa, it being nasty spyware and all?
Re:OSX? (Score:1)