Microsoft Puts SourceForge Clone Into Beta 430
M$ Mole writes "Microsoft is working hard to build their .NET community and has released the beta of an online software project management site. The service being provided is very similar to SF.net, but problems are arising around Microsoft's license, which (originally) granted all rights to the software place on the server to Microsoft. MS has back-pedaled a bit since their 'beta' license and is working on a new, more "acceptable" license."
How very microsoftonian (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How very microsoftonian (Score:5, Funny)
Now they are all communists too! Yea!
Re:How very microsoftonian (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't a troll, I'm simply pointing out that it would be better to leave such judgement calls to those who are actually familiar with such development. I'm a Microsoft developer, and I've shared code/ideas/software with a number of other developers. Despite what most people think, there's a very large group of people out there who not only enjoy developing in a Windows environment, but share ideas and collaborate!
Just imagine if people made such broad generalizations of Slashdot, instead of really looking at it and finding the value within. Not that people don't, but there's good to be found in looking past the surface.
Re:How very microsoftonian (Score:4, Funny)
That would be such a rare occurance that most people probably wouldn't know what to do.
Re:How very microsoftonian (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell me about it. I'm searching for some code, mostly asp to do various database tasks including a message board and calendar. I've found several perl/php/linux/free solutions that work perfectly; but unfortunatly I'm restricted to using w2k and php is out because it's free and free!=secure. All the asp stuff I've found both costs money and isn't quite what I need. It's really frustrating, because it means I need to start from scratch in a language that I don't know. Speaking of which I find the MS support/tutorials/documentation on the web to suck. They're not complete, not helpful, and most often out dated. 9 times out of 10 I can't even find a tutorial for what I want to do, when I do; it doesn't do a good job of teaching me. Try the documentation at http://www.php.net [php.net] - that's so real documentation.
For Immediate Release: (Score:3, Funny)
Veritable storm of ads, spin, astroturf and FUD (Score:4, Interesting)
Not much different than SourceForge (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:4, Interesting)
I also suspect that the SF liscense is more like "we got this off the servers, so can you..." and I suspect the Microsoft liscense is more like "..all your base are belong to us.."
Seriously though, I wouldn't mind MS using something I wrote, as long as the obey all the other rules that go along with GPL. I really have a hard time believing that that would happen though, at least MS following the GPL for stuff that's posted on their "Forge." Do they even allow authors to publish GPL on their servers?....now THAT would be viral if we could free the contents of the entire server by storage there.
I'd also be looking for some type of protection that doesn't allow them to silence alternative code if it does get published on their site. I could easily imagine some situation where a "TiVO" app all in
I'm still skeptical, but I'm willing to listen if you show me where in the SourceForge liscense it grants such terms too.
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:4, Interesting)
But are you distributing code or information? I would think that SourceForge would be well within their rights to pull code from the various projects and keep use of entirely in-house. Their primary purpose is to distribute other's code, not their own.
It might be a different matter ethically, but failure to follow a certain ethical code is not necessarily an actionable offense.
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:4, Interesting)
They could if that was allowed by my license. For instance, under the GPL you can download and use code for in-house products with no catches, as long as you don't redistribute it. SourceForge can take advantage of this, as can any random third party. I think most Free Software licenses have this property.
In order to demonstrate the SourceForce is doing something wrong, you'd have to show me the clause that allows them to redistribute code on different terms than those granted by the license I released it under. Then there'd be something to talk about.
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not talking about the people at SF or GotDotNet "pulling" any of the code for use on inside projects without distribution. That's fair. I'm refering to "yanking it off the servers because we don't want ANYONE to see it" type of pulled. That's more what I'd be afraid of on the MS site. Even if everything else was clean (no porno, no theft, no IP problems, etc.).
You understand how much temptation there would be to pull a project if it were something like a "free" as in beer Office clone? How long would they allow that to compete with their commercial offerings, especially if it was better.
They could incorporate it...sure, but blocking it's distribution to save the empire, that's another thing completely.
To the best of my knowledge, that's how SF works. All them buzzwords that MS throws around like "best of breed" and "competition" are actually playing out on SF!....that's the arena where the action is.
Oh, and one more jab.....the "Community links" area doesn't even have a link back to Slashdot... How ungratefull, since we've prob. been 95% of their hits today.........
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:4, Interesting)
It's obvious that what really needs to be modified is the GPL to cover such situations. In this case, becoming more viral would be a good thing for the community.
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:2)
I think a better way that Dr. Peters could have stated his point is that Microsoft is reselling and redistributing the code they take from other places (and they have been taking code, without the original author's knowledge, for years) while SourceForce, AFAIK, uses the code for it's own purposes, but doesn't make the programs they produce with it available for others to download and reuse. As such, by my understanding they comply with the GPL, while M$ certainly does not.
Re:Not much different than SourceForge (Score:3, Insightful)
Sourceforge License (Score:5, Informative)
the submitting user grants SourceForge.net the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, all subject to the terms of any applicable approved license.
( Perpetual?? Does this bind someone to a timeframe that even Disney would drool over? At least it doesn't say "throughout the universe".)
First, I think (NBAL,YU (Not Being A Lawyer, You Understand)) that most open source licenses give users approximately the rights listed there in general - and since they are saying that their rights are still subject to the terms of an "applicable approved license" so I'm not sure (AIAAL (Again I Aint A Lawyer)) that they're claiming that much. And I suspect that a part of that license (reproduce...publish...display...) is really there to cover them in the case that someone puts something on sourceforge and then wants to take it back and then sue sourceforge for having shown it around. (BAISIANNBALA (you figure it out this time)).
I'm still staring at the MS license (interesting that its not clear right up at the top of the gotdotnet site pages that MS is actually gotdotnet) and the "explanations" offered to see if I can figure out what it might actually be saying (BAISIANNBALA). It does look though like you're giving MS a whole lot more power over your work than you're giving sourceforge.
Er... (Score:3, Funny)
Did I win anything?
ASP Loophole (Score:3, Informative)
Corrections gladly accepted. :)
Microsoft caves in to "open-source" zealots again (Score:5, Funny)
Ugh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ugh (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
C# vs Java (Score:5, Informative)
Agreed, but the openness of the language and the Java community allows for others to come up with even better solutions [apache.org]. Downloading the J2SE sdk and Tomcat is cheaper than buying Visual Studio
I agree with your first statement, at my work though, we're all running Win2k with IE 5.5, and certainly no
So while we're talking Java, where's the gain?
Re:C# vs Java (Score:3, Insightful)
Where do you see Java being open? It's not even a standardized language. C# has been accepted as a standard by the ECMA and has been submitted to ISO. here. [star-techcentral.com]
Re:C# vs Java (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Informative)
Stop thinking in terms of syntax. VB.net and C#.net have access to all of the same
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that only v1.1? The class libraries improved quite a bit after that.
Re:Ugh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:There is... (Score:2, Funny)
License documents updated already? (Score:4, Informative)
Look here [gotdotnet.com].
Looks like they worked pretty fast to smooth that little PR gaffe over.
Why wouldn't you want to hand over your rights? (Score:5, Funny)
one lucky guy (Score:2, Funny)
"Geek? Single? lonely? Love microsoft but all the sexy unix chics won't talk to you. Well this is the place for you. Place all your
Re:one lucky guy (Score:5, Funny)
Official figures from MS financial disclosures (earlier this year, they probably haven't changed much) are
Women : 14987
Men : 14854
Other : 2
Re:one lucky guy (Score:2, Funny)
This could be good (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft has nearly unlimited resources, and developers of various large open source projects may have no choice but to move to Microsoft's site, at least to use their bandwidth, which is still holding up quite well under a heavy slashdotting.
Re:This could be good (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:This could be good (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:This could be good (Score:2)
VA ditched the hardware.. (Score:2)
Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Wait! (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting point (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem here however is that this further bolsters Microsoft's image as a predatory company which can do whatever it wants with impunity. So this continues to show that people that Microsoft is fundamentally not interested in accepting responsibility for their actions, or worse, is actually out to get them.
Say... (Score:5, Funny)
Offtopic, maybe, but maybe somebody should keep an eye on this "Microsoft" company. They seem to be extending their monopoly.
Gotdotnet? (Score:5, Funny)
/.ed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Gotdotnet? (Score:2)
Billboard in Chicago, between I-290 and I-294 westbound.
"Got Botox?"
Ad for a local doctor..... really creepy.
Got Wot? (Score:2)
http://www.gotdotnet.com/community/workspaces/
Who comes up with something like www.gotdotnet.com ?Re:Got Wot? (Score:2)
Probably the same guy who came up with www.wehavethewayout.com/ [wehavethewayout.com]...
Isn't how you spell all this...... (Score:2)
All your code are belong to us!! (Score:5, Funny)
I think I'll host a few GPL licensed projects on their servers, and hope MS incorporates the source into their own code base. Then I can sue them for everything they have and take over the world!!
muahahaha
Re:All your code are belong to us!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:All your code are belong to us!! (Score:3, Informative)
Endgame (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Endgame (Score:3, Insightful)
typical (Score:2, Interesting)
"By posting Your Stuff, You grant to Microsoft, under all of Your intellectual property and proprietary rights the following worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up rights: (1) to make, use, copy, modify and create derivative works of Your Stuff; (2) to publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease, and lend copies of Your Stuff (and derivative works thereof); (3) to sublicense to third parties, including the right to sublicense to further third parties; and (ii) You agree You won't commence any legal action against Microsoft or any Participant or Visitor for exercising any of these rights."
If you were stranded on an island with an MS user, what would be the one thing ever published anywhere, ever, that you would wish you had with you to shut him up? Yeah, that.
gotwhat? (Score:2, Funny)
Leave it to Microsoft to come up with a worse name than slashdot.
website design (Score:3, Insightful)
This is nearly a month old! (Score:5, Informative)
This controversy erupted nearly a month ago. [activewin.com]
A number of us in the Windows community balked at the initial licensing. The lead developer of the GotDotNet workspaces actually joined into the conversation trying to defend the team's lawyers. It appears that the initial licensing was written with a heavy emphasis on CYA, without much thought to whether or not people would agree to it.
Microsoft listened to our arguments, and adjusted the licensing to be friendlier within a day or two. I still think it's rather ridiculous language but it is similar to that found at sourceforge.net and even such places as yahoo, etc. Why lawyers feel they need permission to redistribute stuff that you obviously uploaded with the intent of redistributing is beyond my ability to rationalize.
Anyway, I'm surprised it's taken this long for this to hit
Well, that seems hardly surprising... (Score:2, Funny)
So Microsoft lets their lawyers create the most greedy, all-encompassing license imaginable, and then passes it on to marketing so they can tweak it down until it rests on the threshold of public tolerance. Now that's what I call a company looking out for their customers. OK, maybe not.
Re:This is nearly a month old! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is nearly a month old! (Score:5, Informative)
hmm.... (Score:4, Interesting)
So I pulled out my VS.net disk and looked at the Eula. Can someone explain how this prevents release of software under the GPL. A google search led to little information on the topic.
At first glance, section 3.1(b) looks suspicious, like it's saying you can't make required redistribution of the source code changes to your product a requirement of usage (a core part of the GPL, obviously), but a closer read shows that it is referring to the sample code in the SDK. In other words you can't take SDK samples, make a product from them and make that product GPL. It's basically a licensing restriction on the sample code in the SDK. Is that right? It seems like Microsoft is worried that the GPL will "infect" it thru the sample code, which is ridiculous, I know, but there ya go.
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software product identified above, which includes computer software and may include associated media, printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation, and Internet-based services ("Product"). An amendment or addendum to this EULA may accompany the Product. YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND.
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
1. GRANTS OF LICENSE. Microsoft grants you the rights described in this EULA provided that you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA. NOTE: Microsoft is not licensing to you any rights with respect to Crystal Reports for Microsoft Visual Studio
1.1 General License Grant. Microsoft grants to you as an individual, a personal, nonexclusive license to make and use copies of the Product for the purposes of designing, developing, and testing your software product(s), provided that you are the only individual using the Product.
If you are an entity, Microsoft grants to you a personal, nonexclusive license to make and use copies of the Product, provided that for each individual using the Product within your organization, you have acquired a separate and valid license for each such individual.
1.2 Documentation. You may make and use an unlimited number of copies of any documentation, provided that such copies shall be used only for personal purposes and are not to be republished or distributed (either in hard copy or electronic form) beyond your premises.
1.3 Web Stress Functionality/ACT Tool. If included with the edition of the Product you have acquired with this EULA, then as provided in the corresponding Product documentation, you have the ability to use the component of the Product identified as the Applications Center Test ("ACT Tool") to perform stress tests against websites in its default mode (which is to honor any "robots.txt" files it may encounter) or to set the ACT Too to not honor any "robots.txt" files it may encounter when performing its stress tests. The use of the ACT Tool by you in the non-default mode is entirely your responsibility and at your sole risk. Before you use the ACT Tool with any third party property, you should consult with such third party or the agreement governing the use of such property to determine whether or not such use is permitted.
1.4 Use of Additional Microsoft Visio Network Equipment Shapes. If included with the edition of the Product you have acquired with this EULA, Microsoft Visio Enterprise Network Tools provided with Microsoft Visio for Visual Studio
1.5 Storage/Network Use. You may also store or install a copy of the Product on a storage device, such as a network server, used only to install or run the Product on computers used by a licensed end user in accordance with Section 1.1. A single license for the Product may not be shared or used concurrently by other end users.
1.6 Visual Studio
2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE RIGHTS -- REDISTRIBUTABLE CODE. In addition to the rights granted in Section 1, certain portions of the Product, as described in this Section2, are provided to you with additional license rights. These additional license rights are conditioned upon your compliance with the distribution requirements and license restrictions described in Section 3 that correspond to the type of redistributable files you choose to use and redistribute.
2.1 Sample Code. Microsoft grants you the right to use and modify the source code version of those portions of the Product identified as "Samples" in REDIST.TXT or elsewhere in the Product ("Sample Code") for the sole purposes of designing, developing, and testing your software product(s), and to reproduce and distribute the Sample Code, along with any modifications thereof, in object and/or source code form. For applicable redistribution requirements for Sample Code, see Section3.1 below.
2.2 Redistributable Code-Standard. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Product listed in REDIST.TXT ("Redistributable Code"). For applicable redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. NOTE: Redistributable Code includes certain files that are identified as "Limited Use Redistributable Code" or "Extended Use Redistributable Code." These files are also subject to: (a)for Limited Use Redistributable Code, the license grant in Section 2.3, and redistribution requirements described in Section 3.3 below; or (b)the additional rights described in Section 3.2 for Extended Use Redistributable Code.
2.3 Redistributable Code-Limited Use. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of those portions of the Product listed in REDIST.TXT as Limited Use Redistributable Code, and/or the Microsoft Data Engine technology ("MSDE") (collectively, the "Limited Use Redistributable Code"). For applicable redistribution requirements for Limited Use Redistributable Code, see Sections3.1 and 3.3 below.
2.4 Redistributable Code-Visual C++ and Visual Studio
3. LICENSE RESTRICTIONS -- DISTRIBUTION REQUIREMENTS. If you choose to exercise your rights under Section2, any redistribution by you requires compliance with the following terms, as appropriate.
3.1 Redistributable Code-Standard.
(a) If you are authorized and choose to redistribute Sample Code, Redistributable Code, VC Redistributables, or Limited Use Redistributable Code (collectively, the "Redistributables") as described in Section 2, you agree: (i) except as otherwise noted in Section2.1 (Sample Code), to distribute the Redistributables only in object code form and in conjunction with and as a part of a software application product developed by you that adds significant and primary functionality to the Redistributables ("Licensed Product"); (ii)that the Redistributables only operate in conjunction with Microsoft Windows platforms; (iii) not to use Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to market the Licensed Product; (iv) to display your own valid copyright notice which shall be sufficient to protect Microsoft's copyright in the Product; (v)not to remove or obscure any copyright, trademark or patent notices that appear on the Product as delivered to you; (vi) to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from the use or distribution of the Licensed Product; (vii) otherwise comply with the terms of this EULA; and (h)agree that Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted.
You also agree not to permit further distribution of the Redistributables by your end users except: (1) you may permit further redistribution of the Redistributables by your distributors to your end-user customers if your distributors only distribute the Redistributables in conjunction with, and as part of, the Licensed Product and you and your distributors comply with all other terms of this EULA; and (2) in the manner described in Section 3.2.
(b) If you use the Redistributables, or the "Sample Code" or "Redistributable Code" portions of the SDK Software (as described in Section 4.2(b) (all of the foregoing referred to in this paragraph as the "Licensed Software"), then in addition to your compliance with the applicable distribution requirements described for the Licensed Software, the following also applies. Your license rights to the Licensed Software are conditioned upon your (i) not incorporating Identified Software into or combining Identified Software with the Licensed Software or a derivative work thereof; (ii) not distributing Identified Software in conjunction with the Licensed Software or a derivative work thereof; and (iii) not using Identified Software in the development of a derivative work of the Licensed Software. "Identified Software" means software which is licensed pursuant to terms that directly or indirectly (A) create, or purport to create, obligations for Microsoft with respect to the Licensed Software or derivative work thereof or (B) grant, or purport to grant, to any third party any rights or immunities under Microsoft's intellectual property or proprietary rights in the Licensed Software or derivative work thereof. Identified Software includes, without limitation, any software that requires as a condition of use, modification and/or distribution of such software that other software incorporated into, derived from or distributed with such software be (1) disclosed or distributed in source code form; (2) be licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or (3) be redistributable at no charge.
3.2 Redistributable Code-Extended Use. You may permit your end users to reproduce and distribute the object code form of certain portions of the Product (as listed in REDIST.TXT as "Extended Use Redistributable Code") only in conjunction with and part of a Licensed Product and/or Web page that adds significant and primary functionality to the Extended Use Redistributable Code. You are authorized to exercise the foregoing rights provided that:
(a) you comply with Section 3.1, and
(b) your end user agrees to: (i) distribute the Extended Use Redistributable Code in object code only in conjunction with and as a part of a software application product developed by them that adds significant and primary functionality to the Extended Use Redistributable Code; (ii) not use Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to market the End-User Application; (iii) display their own valid copyright notice which shall be sufficient to protect Microsoft's copyright in the Extended Use Redistributable Code; (iv) indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from the use or distribution of the End-User Application; (vi)comply with the terms of Section 3.1(b); and (vi) not permit further distribution of the Extended Use Redistributable Code by the user of the End-User Application.
3.3 Redistributable Code-Limited Use. If you are authorized and choose to redistribute Limited Use Redistributable Code, in addition to the terms of Section 3.1, you must also comply with the following.
(a) "Jet" Files or MSDE. If you redistribute the "Jet Files" (as identified in the Product ) or MSDE (individually or collectively, the "MS DB Files") you agree to comply with the following additional requirements: (a) your Licensed Product shall not substantially duplicate the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of Microsoft, compete with same; and (b) unless your Licensed Product requires your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to operate, you shall not reproduce or use any of the MS DB Files for commercial distribution in conjunction with a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet or database management software product, or an integrated work or product suite whose components include a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management software product except for the exclusive use of importing data to the various formats supported by Microsoft Access. Note: A product that includes limited word processing, spreadsheet or database components along with other components which provide significant and primary value, such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is not considered to be a "general purpose" product.
(b) Microsoft Data Access Components. If you redistribute the Microsoft Data Access Component file identified as MDAC_TYP.EXE, you also agree to redistribute such file in object code only in conjunction with and as a part of a Licensed Product developed by you with a Microsoft development tool product that adds significant and primary functionality to MDAC_TYP.EXE.
4. MICROSOFT SERVER COMPONENTS FOR DEVELOPMENT USE. The Product may include certain of Microsoft Server products (collectively, the "Server Components"), provided for your use solely in conjunction with the design, development and testing of software products created by you; the Server Components may not be used in a production environment. Your use of the Server Components is subject to the terms and conditions of this EULA, the terms of which supercede those of any end user license agreements contained in the Server Components. There are two exceptions to the foregoing: the Server Components identified as Microsoft SQL Server Developer Edition and BizTalk Server Developer Edition contain end user license agreements that govern your use of those specific Server Components. For all other Server Components, the following rights and restrictions apply.
4.1 Installation and Grant of License. The Server Components consist of software programs that provide services or functionality on a computer capable of running the server software ("Server Software"; the computer running the Server Software shall be referred to as the "Server.") and software programs that allow an electronic device (a "Device") to access or utilize the services or functionality provided by the Server Software ("Client Software").
(a) Server Software. Solely for purposes of designing, developing and testing your software product(s) you may make, use and install the Server Software for any individual Server Component on any number of Servers. All components of the Server Software for any one Server Component, however, may only be installed and used on one and the same Server. The Server Software may not be used as the software on the server that supports your development of software product(s) (e.g., as a repository for source code).
(b) Client Software. You may make, use and install the Client Software on any number of Devices for use by others, provided that such use is solely in conjunction with the design, development and testing of software products created by you that operate in conjunction with the Server Software.
4.2 Other Rights and Restrictions Regarding the Server Components.
(a) Windows 2000 Server. The Server Software for the Server Component identified as Windows 2000 Server may be used by no more than four (4) processors of the Server at any one time.
(b) Use of Redistributable Software ("SDK Software"). If included as part of a Server Component, you may install and use copies of the SDK Software on one or more computers located at your premises solely for the purpose of building applications that work in conjunction with the Server Software that accompanies the corresponding SDK Software ("Applications"). You may modify the Sample Code (identified in the "samples" directories) to design, develop, and test your Applications, and may reproduce and use the Sample Code, as modified, on one or more computers located at your premises. You may also reproduce and distribute the Sample Code, along with any modifications you make thereto (for purposes of this section, "modifications" shall mean enhancements to the functionality of the Sample Code), and any other files that may be listed and identified in a REDIST.TXT file as "redistributable" (collectively, the "Redistributable Code") provided that you comply with the terms of Section3.1 above.
5. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND LIMITATIONS
5.1 Not For Resale Software. If the Product is labeled "Not For Resale" or "NFR," then you may not resell, or otherwise transfer for value, the Product.
5.2 Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Product, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.
5.3 Rental. You may not rent, lease or lend the Product.
5.4 Trademarks. This EULA does not grant you any rights in connection with any trademarks or service marks of Microsoft.
5.5 Consent to Use of Data. You agree that Microsoft and its affiliates may collect and use technical information gathered as part of the product support services provided to you, if any, related to the Product. Microsoft may use this information solely to improve our products or to provide customized services or technologies to you and will not disclose this information in a form that personally identifies you.
5.6 Software Transfer. The initial user of the Product may make a one-time permanent transfer of this EULA and Product only directly to an end user. This transfer must include all of the Product (including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity). Such transfer may not be by way of consignment or any other indirect transfer. The transferee of such one-time transfer must agree to comply with the terms of this EULA, including the obligation not to further transfer this EULA and Product.
5.7 Separation of Components. The Product is licensed as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use by more than one user.
5.8 Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the Product and all of its component parts.
5.9 Benchmark Testing. You may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of the
6. PRERELEASE CODE. Portions of the Product may be identified as prerelease code ("Prerelease Code"). Such Prerelease Code is not at the level of performance and compatibility of the final, generally available product offering. The Prerelease Code may not operate correctly and may be substantially modified prior to first commercial shipment. Microsoft is not obligated to make this or any later version of the Prerelease Code commercially available. The grant of license to use Prerelease Code expires upon availability of a commercial release of the Prerelease Code from Microsoft. NOTE: In the event that Prerelease Code contains a separate end-user license agreement, the terms and conditions of such end-user license agreement shall govern your use of the corresponding Prerelease Code.
7. UPGRADES. To use a Product identified as an upgrade, you must first be licensed for the product identified by Microsoft as eligible for the upgrade. After upgrading, you may no longer use the product that formed the basis for your upgrade eligibility.You may use the resulting upgraded product only in accordance with the terms of this EULA. If the Product is an upgrade of a component of a package of software programs that you licensed as a single product, the Product may be used and transferred only as part of that single product package and may not be separated for use by more than one end user.
8. DOWNGRADES. Instead of installing and using the Product, you may install and use one copy of an earlier version of the Product, provided that you completely remove such earlier version and install the original Product within a reasonable time. Your use of such earlier version shall be governed by this EULA, and your rights to use such earlier version shall terminate when you install the original Product.
9. NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT. THE PRODUCT MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE. Sun Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Microsoft to make this disclaimer.
10. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR PRODUCT ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA.
Except with respect to the Redistributables, which are provided "AS IS," without warranty of any kind, Microsoft warrants that the Product will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying materials for a period of ninety days from the date of receipt.
If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state/jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty or condition lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you.
Any supplements or updates to the Product, including without limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot fixes provided to you after the expiration of the ninety day Limited Warranty period are not covered by any warranty or condition, express, implied or statutory.
LIMITATION ON REMEDIES; NO CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES. Your exclusive remedy for any breach of this Limited Warranty is as set forth below. Except for any refund elected by Microsoft, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, if the Product does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty, and, to the maximum extent allowed by applicable law, even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose. The terms of Section 12 below ("Exclusion of Incidental, Consequential and Certain Other Damages") are also incorporated into this Limited Warranty. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. This Limited Warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may have others which vary from state/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction. YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY. Microsoft's and its suppliers' entire liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option from time to time exercised subject to applicable law, (a)return of the price paid (if any) for the Product, or (b)repair or replacement of the Product, that does not meet this Limited Warranty and that is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt. You will receive the remedy elected by Microsoft without charge, except that you are responsible for any expenses you may incur (e.g. cost of shipping the Product to Microsoft). This Limited Warranty is void if failure of the Product has resulted from accident, abuse, misapplication, abnormal use or a virus. Any replacement Product will be warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days, whichever is longer. Outside the United States or Canada, neither these remedies nor any product support services offered by Microsoft are available without proof of purchase from an authorized international source. To exercise your remedy, contact: Microsoft, Attn. Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, or the Microsoft subsidiary serving your country.
LIMITED WARRANTY FOR PRODUCT ACQUIRED OUTSIDE THE US OR CANADA.
FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTIES AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS PERTAINING TO YOUR PARTICULAR JURISDICTION, PLEASE REFER TO YOUR WARRANTY BOOKLET INCLUDED WITH THIS PACKAGE OR PROVIDED WITH THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT PRINTED MATERIALS.
11. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made to you and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties (if any) created by any documentation, packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Microsoft and its suppliers provide the Product and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, either express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the Product, and the provision of or failure to provide support or other services, information, software, and related content through the Product or otherwise arising out of the use of the Product. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE PRODUCT.
12. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL INJURY, FOR LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT OR OTHER SERVICES, INFORMATON, SOFTWARE, AND RELATED CONTENT THROUGH THE PRODUCT OR OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE PRODUCT, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH OF WARRANTY OF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
13. LINKS TO THIRD PARTY SITES. You may link to third party sites through the use of the Product. The third party sites are not under the control of Microsoft, and Microsoft is not responsible for the contents of any third party sites, any links contained in third party sites, or any changes or updates to third party sites. Microsoft is not responsible for webcasting or any other form of transmission received from any third party sites. Microsoft is providing these links to third party sites to you only as a convenience, and the inclusion of any link does not imply an endorsement by Microsoft of the third party site.
14. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. Notwithstanding any damages that you might incur for any reason whatsoever (including, without limitation, all damages referenced above and all direct or general damages), the entire liability of Microsoft and any of its suppliers under any provision of this EULA and your exclusive remedy for all of the foregoing (except for any remedy of repair or replacement elected by Microsoft with respect to any breach of the Limited Warranty) shall be limited to the greater of the amount actually paid by you for the Product or U.S.$5.00. The foregoing limitations, exclusions and disclaimers (including Sections 10, 11 and 12 above) shall apply to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, even if any remedy fails its essential purpose.
15. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial license rights and restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable.
16. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that the Product is of U.S. origin and subject to U.S. export jurisdiction. You agree to comply with all applicable international and national laws that apply to the Product, including the U.S. Export Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use, and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and other governments. For additional information see
17. APPLICABLE LAW. If you acquired this Product in the United States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of Washington. If you acquired this Product in Canada, unless expressly prohibited by local law, this EULA is governed by the laws in force in the Province of Ontario, Canada; and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder, you consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and provincial courts sitting in Toronto, Ontario. If this Product was acquired outside the United States, then local law may apply.
18. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included with the Product) are the entire agreement between you and Microsoft relating to the Product and the support services (if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous oral or written communications, proposals and representations with respect to the Product or any other subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the terms of any Microsoft policies or programs for support services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms of this EULA shall control.
19. The Product is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the Product. The Product is licensed, not sold.
Har... (Score:2)
Protect your intellectual property (Score:3, Interesting)
Tee Hee (Score:2, Funny)
RIP (Score:3, Informative)
On more /. nuke? (Score:2)
SourceForge Dot Net (Score:2, Interesting)
Heck, it is called "SourceForge.net". OSDN has made it clear in e-mail to all SourceForge.net members that "SourceForge" the software development management system and "SourceForge.net" the public implementation thereof are two separate things. Heck, in the SourceForge.net logo [sourceforge.net], the ".net" part is in larger type than the "SOURCEFORGE" part. Did OSDN staff anticipate this competition from Microsoft? "Apparently, Microsoft is going to want to copy our idea for giving free hosting for open source projects' web sites, source code repositories, bug trackers, and mailing lists. Let's make '.NET' the biggest thing in our logo."
Here are some .NET projects on SourceForge.net: Projects that contain C# language code [sourceforge.net]
GNOME Basic (Score:4, Informative)
Hmmm.that seems against what RMS originally designed the GPL for.
The GNU General Public License was designed to allow Emacs to work on Solaris and Windows operating environments. That's why the operating system clause is in there.
If I wanted to compil VB code, I need to use a NON-free (+$100 compiler) to use it.
Not for long: check out GNOME Basic [gnome.org].
Crap. (Score:2)
- A.P.
jeez (Score:2)
Top 10 projects on gotdotnet! (Score:5, Funny)
9. NewVirusGenerator 0.1.1
8. VirusDetector 0.0.3
7. DRMBreak 4.2
6. AutoUpdateBlocking 3.5
5. GenerateNewLicenseAfterReconfig 4.6
4. PutTheRegistryBackIntoSaneState 2.2
3. RebootForSixthTimeToday 1.6
2. PutOSBackIntoSaneStateAfterItCorruptsOwnFiles 7.8
1. EraseHardDriveInstallRealOS 1.0
Re:Top 10 projects on gotdotnet! (Score:5, Funny)
0.5. Random blue screen generator. Available here [microsoft.com].
Re:Top 10 projects on gotdotnet! (Score:2)
As to not upsetting your windoze box, our 2k servers eat shit for nothing more unreasonable than more than one client request at a time. Or the (gasp) installation of non-microsoftware. The funny bit was the rep who blamed our problems on a faircom server - the very same faircom server which cut down on bsods by like fifty percent overnight while increasing throughput exponentially. Heh.
Well, they're certainly serious -- gotdotnet.ru! (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyways, if you want to have a look at a version of their site, check out their Russian cousin [gotdotnet.ru]
Oops, they did it again... (Score:3, Interesting)
2. Switch (from Unknown Mac OS version to Windows XP) story written (apparently on a Mac OSX version of Word) by a contracted MS PR employee.
3. Sudden change of license for a Source Forge clone site geared to supporting
4. ? Stay tuned to Slashdot for the latest Microsoft Blunder...
With regards to #3: Didn't they say they were going to squash Open Source? Then why are they trying to do the same thing as the Open Source community? What, trying to beat them at their own game? Not happening. MS's "In The Know" bunch is a few hundred (maybe thousand) big business honchos and a few schools. The Open Source community's "In The Know" bunch is anyone with half a brain that wants to lend a hand, probably numbering in the millions.
We Are Open Source. Windows Existance Is Futile. You Will Be Humiliated...
gotdotnet... (Score:2)
SWEET!!!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't realize that there was a central place where I can host my projects (scripts) and get collaboration on how effective they can be.
A few of my fellow tweens can now help me out in naming my next vir^H^H^Hscript ...
On a serious note, I really hope they host this site with IIS.
My Take (Score:5, Funny)
Second, I'm not sure that using the phrase "workspace" is the greatest choice. Looking at Metrowerks' package design or the name "Sourceforge" gives you a neat, romanticized image of some code artist beating away on a big piece of iron, forging something new. Its designed to appear attractive to the person doing the work, not his manager -- not MS's strong point. "Workspaces"? Might appeal to the corporate world, but in the hobbyist market, out to write some good code and have fun, I think they're missing the mark.
Third, the terminology is once again corporate: "aply to join a Workspace"..."owner, administrator, and member"
Fourth, the liberal use of "sharing source" (Microsoft's favorite term) rather than "opening source" on the site is quite prominent -- "planning on sharing the source code".
Fifth, more MS-style favorite words -- "integrate" and prominent mention of Visual Studio: "How will Workspaces integrate with Visual Studio
Sixth, why the hell does MS distribute all their documentation in Word format [gotdotnet.com]? So they made it in-house...big deal. I don't use Excel to write research papers -- it's the wrong tool. Word, with macro viruses, no font embedding, security issues, large file sizes and import issues with different versions of the software, is a really crummy "publication format". It makes sense in MS-centric workgroups for exchange of documents in progress, but not for final copies.
Seventh, the damn thing is already Slashdotted.
Slashdotted (Score:2)
What's the deal editors? (Score:2)
FYI sf.net by OS (Score:5, Insightful)
BeOS (302 projects)
MacOS (1386 projects)
Microsoft (10878 projects)
OS Independent (11647 projects)
OS/2 (72 projects)
Other OS (635 projects)
PDA Systems (420 projects)
POSIX (20179 projects)
Point being there are a considerable amount of
projects coded to win32 on sourceforge, so it's
not like free software doesn't exist on the platform.
I suppose you could look at what MS is doing as
providing an alternative for people who don't
want to be forced into an OSI approved license
as per SF's TOS.
I'll refrain from commenting on the TOS from
MS' dealie, since I haven't read it, except to say
if you have to have terms rammed down your throat, it's better for all parties to get the same deal.
What about Ol' Bill's 'Open Letter'? (Score:5, Informative)
It's usually instructive in situations like this to consider the historical context of the issues. Here's the original 'Open Letter' from Bill Gates to the hobbyist community [blinkenlights.com]
The background here is that a lot of people pirated Bill's Altair BASIC program, and Bill wanted to know where good software was going to come from if people didn't get paid for it.
It may not have been legal or ethical for hobbyists to pirate Altair BASIC back in 1976, but very soon thereafter, Free Software gave us an answer and an alternative: share the source, and the software grows even in the absence of monetary incentive. It is immune to the type of 'theft' that Bill was whining about. 26 years later, we have seen that Free Software isn't just surviving, it's thriving.
Now, along comes GotDotNet, which looks suspiciously like an emulation of Open Source practices... except that the AUP includes a few serious distinctions. One is the assignment of certain important rights to Microsoft that basically let them do whatever the hell they please with the sweat of your brow. Here's a quote of (what looks like) the original license from the discussion at Activewin.com: (Link to the full thread) [activewin.com]
Note the specific lack of compensation for the original programmer (unless you consider the use of GDN itself to be sufficient recompense, but I'm pretty damn sure that GDN isn't going to be buying your groceries and paying the rent). One must ask - if nobody pays the users of GDN, where will the good software come from? Nothing about GDN sounds like hiring programmers to 'flood the hobby market with good software'. It sounds ripping off the community to serve MS's shareholders (eg, Bill).
So what's the point?
I propose that the fundamental corporate culture of Microsoft embodies Gate's attitude as reflected in the 1976 'Open Letter'. This culture is allergic to piracy, because a consumerist revenue cycle is necessary to improve the software.
The Free Software movement has thoroughly refuted Gate's thesis, by making itself independant of the revenue cycle (and therefore is not harmed by 'piracy' as it is usually understood).
Microsoft's obsolete culture cannot change to adopt Free Software practices - the assumptions that Free Software threaten are the very core of their business. If the company were rebuilt from the ground up on Free principles, the entire culture would have to change - essentially resulting in a totally different company that happens to have the same name.
Since Microsoft cannot adopt free software practices, Microsoft can only regard Free Software as a competing producer of software, taking market share away from them, and therefore, a deadly threat.
Since Microsoft itself regards Free Software as a threat, it seems to follow that nobody else who depends on revenue streams to survive, would ever want to use a system that resembles a Free Software ecology (like GDN), as they would deprive the producer of that stream.
Producers of free software should similarly be suspicious of a system governed by a legal agreement written by someone who considers them to be a deadly enemy.
Therefore, Microsoft's own pseudo-Free intiatives (such as GotDotNet, the Shared Source license, and the Software Choice initiative) are probably (a) Shams that will perpetuate Microsoft's revenue stream at the expense of the rights of members of the community, and/or (b) exceedingly stupid mistakes on Microsoft's part.
In the absence of further evidence (especially since GDN is slashdotted and I can't read the text of the new license), it is impossible to tell to which degree GDN (or any other pseudo-Free effort by Microsoft) will be (a) or (b). In either case, it seems imprudent for users or programmers - whether they produce in open or closed software - to place their trust in these intiatives.
I wonder, as an aside, if Bill himself ever paid anything to the original inventors of BASIC [fys.ruu.nl], a pair of researchers at Dartmouth University. So I wonder if Bill's logic reflexively implies that he stole BASIC from Kemeny and Kurtz. Gee. Where will the good ideas come from? Oh, wait academia has been going as a not-for-profit institution for centuries. You may have heard of some of their other 'products' - the theory of universal gravitation, electricty, the rabies vaccine...
And, in Microsoft's second great advertisement... (Score:5, Funny)
Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.
[etc]
Wow! Microsoft have two great advertisements for their superiority over other technologies in oen day.
only from MS... (Score:5, Interesting)
----------------------
Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.
Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off".
Notes: The current error page you are seeing can be replaced by a custom error page by modifying the "defaultRedirect" attribute of the application's configuration tag to point to a custom error page URL.
----------------------
Am I the only one getting this error on gotdotnet.com? Past this, I was actually able to look at the message board where they posted the license update. To me, it sounded ridiculous.
First of all, the original terms were totally out of whack. Here's the quote:
By posting Your Stuff, You grant to Microsoft, under all of Your intellectual property and proprietary rights the following worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up rights: (1) to make, use, copy, modify and create derivative works of Your Stuff; (2) to publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease, and lend copies of Your Stuff (and derivative works thereof); (3) to sublicense to third parties, including the right to sublicense to further third parties; and (ii) You agree You won't commence any legal action against Microsoft or any Participant or Visitor for exercising any of these rights.
In short, all your base are belong to us!!! Huh? If I do post my project on gotdotnet, I will have to give up all IP rights to anything I create under that project to MS. I have to give them the right to unconditionally modify, redistribute, relicense for a fee, etc. and I won't have any rights to what I create. I have to imagine that someone actually sat down and thought that this was a fair deal! No shit they got a huge backlash from developers. Then there is the modified version of the license:
By posting Your Stuff to a Workspace, You understand and agree that you're giving a license under your intellectual property rights to all authorized users of the Workspace, including the rights to download, copy, modify, distribute and repost. In addition, you're giving Microsoft all the necessary rights to make Your Stuff available as part of the Project.
This has less legalese obviously, but all the details are now gone! There are no clear conditions that I am agreeing to; too generalized which makes me think that it eventually gives more power to MS to work out the details. These include and are not limited to:
- can I use my own license terms for use, distribution, modification, copyright notice?
- am I effectively giving up copyright when I agree to give everyone rights to download, copy, modify, redistribute and repost?
- can any user sublicense my work on their terms with their license for either commercial or non-commercial uses?
- what if there are patents involved? Am I giving up rights to my patents too?
- etc., etc., etc.
My understanding is that as one of the comments said in the reply to the above copyright change notice,
Why don't you just specify that you accept that the other authorized members of the workspaces will be able to work on the stuff in the workspace under the Licence the project owner defines... There is no need to give anybody a special licence... The wks owner tells that his project is under bsd licence for example, then, the only special right I will grant to MS is that I accept that MS will provide my files to others under the licence I defined. what is complicated here ? Why should they require something different ? If MS wants to use the file sin the project thay should also be bound to the defined licence, not the other way...
I think I have an answer why this is not going to happen; because MS is afraid developers will start using GPL for their works. With recent MS stances toward GPL apps, such as licenses that prohibit running or interfacing with GPL apps, I don't think they will allow developers to choose their own license. Rather, MS does want to force their terms on the developers. I am wondering how all this will play out.
Whats wrong with M$? (Score:5, Informative)
he service being provided is very similar to SF.net, but problems are arising around Microsoft's license, which (originally) granted all rights to the software place on the server to
Microsoft.
SourceForge has changed the license terms long ago. Not sure if they got changed back
However: if you host a project on SF you grant SF to use your code for any purpose. Without the need to message you, to contribute or whatever.
Just read point 6 of the license: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?doc
angel'o'sphere
WOW (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.gotdotnet.com/community/messageboard
To clear everything up here is the actual e-mail that was sent out
"By posting Your Stuff, You grant to Microsoft, under all of Your intellectual property and proprietary rights the following worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up rights: (1) to make, use, copy, modify and create derivative works of Your Stuff; (2) to publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease, and lend copies of Your Stuff (and derivative works thereof); (3) to sublicense to third parties, including the right to sublicense to further third parties; and (ii) You agree You won't commence any legal action against Microsoft or any Participant or Visitor for exercising any of these rights."
We want to be clear that our intent was never to assume ownership of your code. In order to maintain a copy of your project on our servers and make it available for download by authorized users of your Workspace, we do need certain permissions from you (in legalese, we need licenses for certain of your intellectual property rights in your project). Based on your comments, we see that we were not sufficiently clear in conveying the intent of this section of the license. We apologize for the miscommunication in the license and hope the below changes will better represent our intent. The new section becomes:
"By posting Your Stuff to a Workspace, You understand and agree that you're giving a license under your intellectual property rights to all authorized users of the Workspace, including the rights to download, copy, modify, distribute and repost. In addition, you're giving Microsoft all the necessary rights to make Your Stuff available as part of the Project."
See unlike all the poor open source developers out there Microsoft actually has to cover it's ass leagelly so jackazzes from slashdot don't sue them.
The key word was "license" (Score:3, Informative)
Passport Account? (Score:5, Funny)
Does anyone have a Passport account I can use? I am supprised to see that no one has posted the slashdot passport account info, like they usually do for the NY Times. I want to create a few projects, but I have heard that having a Passport account is insecure and that it even could be taking the mark of the beast. So, if anyone has one they could share, I would like to add a few projects like:
Windows YP - A lightweight Windows Replacement that only crashes once a week
Winzilla - An IE replacement written entirely in VB (It is very fast)
Inlook - An Outlook replacement that is guarrantied to only have 5 major security holes / month
Ipache - An IIS replacement which is only compatible with Winzilla clients
Thanks.
Horrifying thought (Score:4, Interesting)
What if Microsoft is doing all these stupid PR moves on purpose? The intent might be to make MS look like a big, goofy, harmless company rather than their usual Sinister Evil(TM) look. "Oops! We hired one of our PR people to write an 'unbiased' switching story. Oops! We put an insanely silly license up on our project management software. D'oh, aren't we goofy!"
I dunno, maybe it's just coincidence, but such a plan might actually help their reputation -- getting people who see them as evil bastards to think of them as merely incompetent goofballs would be a first step toward reducing resistance to their efforts. (After all, resistance is futile.)
Re:MS license (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, you thought it was yours? Nope, it's ours.
Jouster
Re:Icon (Score:4, Funny)
Sqeeeeeeeeeeez.
Re:Can't believed! (Score:2)
Re:Sigh, more /. FUD (Score:2, Informative)
---snip---
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
- Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
- Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
- Neither the name of the nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
---snip---You are suggesting that MS taking code and using it as their own without granting credit is equivalent to that?
It also doesn't give everybody these rights, just MS. So if I were to release something as GPL, it would be GPL for everyone except MS, who can do with it what they please. No thanks.
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Looks like there's one clear advantage to Sourceforge: If you do something there worth a Slashdot story, people will actually get to see it.
Re:www.godotnet.com Runs....LINUX!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This may be a little off topic... (Score:2)
Re:GotDotIIS? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.
More evidence that it's a security problem and not scheduled downtime. Security problems with IIS? I've never heard of such a thing!
But then again, downtime like this is nothing new:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=ww
Re:gotdotnet.co.uk running ... Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Interestingly, I notice that someone's registered slashdot.org.uk...
Tim