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GUI Programming Software IT Technology

Borland Uses (And Supports) wxWindows 68

Posted by timothy from the myriad-ways dept.
jmccay writes " Back in September, Slashdot posted an article about a new tool that Borland is releasing (C++ BuilderX) which is a multi-platform and multi-compiler development environment. What wasn't mentioned in the article that I scanned in the post was that Borland is going to use wxWindows for this product. I have been working with wxWindows for about 6 months now, and I like it. A statement by Julian Smart (founder of the wxWindows project) gives more information on the product and Borland's participation in the wxWindows project. He says that they are also going to help out the project by 'contributing expertise and funding to help in areas such as enhanced run-time type information, the new build system and code reengineering, and will continue to invest in wxWindows while supporting its open source status.' There is also an FAQ available to read on the linked page. This is great news for both the project and the Open Source community as a whole."
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Borland Uses (And Supports) wxWindows More

Borland Uses (And Supports) wxWindows

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  • But it also comes prepackaged with ACE [wustl.edu] !

    BTW There is a free version of it that is downloadable.

  • Yeah and the BAD news is... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xagon7 ( 530399 ) on Monday November 10, 2003 @10:37PM (#7440581)
    Borland is caught in the .NET.

    Delphi 8 and the VCL are nothing more than wrappers around .NET. If I were to perform any NEW windows centric development I would use C#. The good news though is C# Builder is AWESOME.

    Just my $0.02
    • Seeing as the VCL has been around for 5+ years (before .NET was a gleam in the monopolists' eye), I would not call one a wrapper for the other.

      VCL is, however, a snazzy wrapper for the Windows API.

      It sounds like you are the one caught in the .NET.
      • I think you are uninformed. Delphi 8 is NO LONGER wrapping the arcane win32 API, it will be wrapping .NET, which itself is very VCL like, so why bother?
        • I think you are uninformed. Delphi 8 is NO LONGER wrapping the arcane win32 API, it will be wrapping .NET, which itself is very VCL like, so why bother?
          And for non-.NET platforms they still got the CLX, which is a wrapper around QT (including a licence from Trolltech for every Kylix developer).
        • Delphi 8 is NO LONGER wrapping the arcane win32 API, it will be wrapping .NET, which itself is very VCL like, so why bother?

          Why bother? Well, um, could it possibly be something to do with backwards-compatibility? You know, allowing customers to upgrade without forcing them to rewrite all their existing applications and retrain all their programmers?
    • Delphi 8 and the VCL are nothing more than wrappers around .NET. If I were to perform any NEW windows centric development I would use C#.

      I wouldn't necessarily call that bad news. Win32 is dead, wrapping .NET is the only way for Delphi to continue to grow. I assume Delphi 8 can use Windows Forms directly without the VCL layer, if one wanted to continue to use that language in the future; but overall I'll agree -- there's really no point to use anything other than C# or maybe VB.NET.
      • Win32 isn't dead... nobody sane is going to want the ball and chain that comes with LongHorn, and all this .NET vaporware. Win98 is going to be a lot of places for a very long time.

        New development will shift from Win32 to a Linux base as the Monopoly gets recognised as the Naziware (Digital Restriction Ware?) (Prisonware?)that it is, and shunned in the marketplace.

        --Mike--

      • Arrr.. And just as I've learned Win32 API from head to toe. This isn't fair.

        But, but.. Is there any good crossplatform UI-libraries that works on embedded OS like Symbian and Palm? That's what I am waiting for (and of course Borland IDE to support this).

    • Delphi 8 and the VCL are nothing more than wrappers around .NET

      Delphi is much more than a wrapper, and this is GOOD news in any case.

      I much prefer delphi's wrapper to windows' API.

      It's so much easier to do an OnKeyPress, =#13 than it is to look for WM_whatever on the right dlgitem in the dlgproc.

      I think so anyway, and if wrapping .net means it is still Delphi, all the better.

      As for wxWindows I am very pleased.

      Well done Borland.

  • Has anyone got any more details on the mysterious C++BuilderX ? It has all the hallmarks of vapourware, except that it actually seems to have been released. Borland's website doesn't give any useful information.

    I currently use C++Builder 5 (most of the time, without VCL). Is C++BuilderX a "step up" , or should I be sticking where I am? Is it even similar to the older versions of C++Builder at all? Does it use wxWindows similarly to how the older versions used VCL? (ie. can I design RAD forms and stick cont
    • It would be nice if there was a review somewhere from somebody who had actually used the product.. or even just some screenshots?

      I just got the evaluation CD Saturday, so haven't had a chance to play around with it a lot yet. Basically it looks like it is an OS, compiler, and debugger independent IDE. You can run it on Solaris, Linux, or XP and tell it which compiler and debugger to use, and it will use it.

      -Brent
    • C++BuilderX is a totally different creature then the prior C++Builders. It uses an IDE similar to the JBuilder IDE (written in Java). I have not used it, but just read about it. I get the impression it is designed for C/C++ developers who like to get down to the metal, and are not so worried about Rapid Application Development, hence no VCL (AFAIK). You can download [borland.com] a Personal Edition (free) or the Enterprise Edition trial (time limited).

      If you don't typically use the VCL, and want the flexibility of m

      • Re:whatis C++BuilderX (Score:5, Informative)

        by maunleon ( 172815 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @02:52AM (#7441915)
        Unfortunatelly RAD development (especially UI) was Borland's strong point. If they did abandon that, I am afraid they may end up being clobbered in the market by Visual Studio, at least on the windows platform. Will non-windows sales be sufficient to keep the company in business? I doubt it, at least judging by the /. OSS community which seems to equate open source with free.

        So, for their sake, I hope they kept the awesome RAD features they had. And furthermore, I hope they changed their mentality of abandoning versions of the compiler and forcing the user to buy whole new versions.

        Case in point: Visual C++ 6.0 had what,4-6 service packs? C++ Builder 5.0 has one. And not even that fixed all the annoying UI bugs. Borland is terrible when it comes to fixing bugs in existing releases. This is the very reason I have gradually moved my development to Microsoft tools, except when the UI is more than 80% of the total application code. And this is why I have not bothered to update my C++ Builder 5. At least I know the bugs in this version, and I know they will not fix them and break my work-arounds :)

        Sorry borland, but you lost me as a customer because of your policy of abandoning released products. You had a great product, but you had awful post-sales support. For a $1500 (?) piece of software (enterprise version), I expect a lot more!

        some annoying bugs in the 5.0 version:

        1. In two of my programs, the compiler always gives a bogus compilation error on the first full build. All I have to do is hit "build" again and the build error magically vanishes. Fine and dandy for me, but this will confuse someone else taking over the code.

        2. On a certain application, the UI locks up in the "link" stage periodically. I have to kill the task and restart it.

        3. How hard it is to fix the access violation when users select a new console application??? I get it 90% of the time.

        4. Who the hell implemented code insight in C++ builder?? It's a fine feature if you can wait 20-30 seconds for it to decide on the proper hint (during which time it locks up your UI). And i have a 2P, 2GHz Xeon workstation with 1Gb of ram. I just turn it off.

        5. The TODO list works fine with TODOs embedded in the code. Just try to use it by adding TODOs directly to the list (using the UI, instead of embedding the items in comments)... You can say goodbye to it after a few items.

        6. The XML parser for the project files is somewhat weird. If I remember correctly, XML is supposed to ignore white spaces; however simply removing a library reference using notepad can cause the whole project to be unopenable. If I use the BC++ editor, it works fine.. however the two project files are visually identical side by side.

        7. Access violations and screwed up code generation for ActiveX and type libraries. Every time I create COM or ActiveX I expect to have to manually edit the makefiles, mostly because either it access violates during the code generation or it just simply forget to generate certain code.

        These are all bugs that the service pack should've addressed. No, I am not the only one seeing them, all developers at our site have this issue. There are tons more bugs, I am just blocking them out of memory right now. Comparatively, the Visual C++ UI is rock solid. BCB5 UI barely edges out the VB6 UI if that gives you any idea.

        • Re:whatis C++BuilderX (Score:2, Informative)

          by Old Wolf ( 56093 )
          Yeah same here. I have a several-page document of C++Builder quirks, in case anyone else ever takes over my projects (or if I come back to it after an absence). We should join efforts and make a webpage on the topic, or something.

          The most awful part of it all is the AnsiStrings and TStringList -- since I figured out how the SCL works, I have stopped using those two. They can't even fix the bugs in those because it will break lots of existing code that (accidentally) relies on the bugs.

          Re. your problems:
          1)
      • Borland fucked up in a lot of ways with BCBX - if I were them, I wouldn't be selling it right now. Let me start a list...

        a) It's mainly a wrapper around other (free) tools. It's a GOOD wrapper, but it's hard to justify the kind of money they want for a simple wrapper. I'd like to see some Borland-specific expertise in it for that kind of money (like a VCL->wxWindows integration library that let people use third party VCL components from withing wxWindows apps. Mmmmmmmm).
        b) They pulled the wx support :P

    • It is 1000.00 USD per copy or 600 USD if you are upgrading. That is the least expensive package that shows up on shop.borland.com.

      Damn.
    • It would be nice if there was a review somewhere from somebody who had actually used the product.. or even just some screenshots?

      here's a swf demo of it. [borland.com]
      • here's a swf demo of it.

        I am very impressed that the presenter doesn't know the difference between VPN and VNC. And as others pointed out, Borland have historically been terrible at updates and fixes for released versions of their products.

        The real question is can you trust them to keep up to date with new versions of GNU tools, Intel tools and their own without repeated dinging you for more cash?

  • How long till they kill it? (Score:3, Funny)

    by DAldredge ( 2353 ) <SlashdotEmail@GMail.Com> on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @01:22AM (#7441541) Journal
    How long till they kill it like they did to Kylix?

  • C++ BuilderX (Score:2, Insightful)

    by RyosukeFC ( 719773 )
    I'm just a C++ student at the local community college, so I don't know a lot about the usefulness of the various other stuff it comes with, but I ordered the Personal edition on CD from shop.borland.com a few days after it was released, and have been in love with it from the beginning.

    The textbook our class uses comes with CodeWarrior, which I can't stand, so I opted for BuilderX. All CDs of BuilderX I've seen (Personal and Enterprise) have installs for all the supported OSs on one disc (Win32, Solaris, L
  • wxWindows looks like a really nice toolkit, with lots of robust widgets. I just wish that A) wxPerl [sourceforge.net] wasn't so buggy, and B) that the wxPerl/wxWindows documentation was better than "Here's an alphabetical list of method calls - good luck!"

    Good docs like the Perl/Tk books keep me with that toolkit. I'm the first to admit I'm not a good coder, but I've been able to do a lot following the documetation in Mastering Perl/Tk.
    • There are turorials that explain how to get the basics going. But the real beauty of wxWindows, at least to me, is that the name of the class tells you exaclty what it is. You want a button, wxButton.
      • There are turorials that explain how to get the basics going. But the real beauty of wxWindows, at least to me, is that the name of the class tells you exaclty what it is. You want a button, wxButton.

        Right, the documentation will tell you that if you need a button, use wxButton. It won't tell a non-C++ programmer how to fit that button into an overall application, or how to do interesting things with the button. It'll tell you that it expects certain WX_* things, but you have to go track down the C++ do
    • Back in olden times, a VGA display was just a frame buffer, and if you selected one of the 256-color modes, that frame buffers was simply an array of bytes that you wrote to your heart's content. In the days of DOS and VGA and 2-D games, that was the way to go.

      These new-fangled object-oriented GUI's have to abstract the heck out of everything and I guess a frame buffer is considered way too low level. In wxWindows the abstractions are wxWindow (the window thingy), wxDC (abstraction of the drawing surfac

      • wxWindows 2.5 and later includes raw bitmap support (DIB, under windows). It was added largely because theres alot of people writing visualization software with wxWindows and there were alot of questions about wxImage and wxBitmap performance.

        If you want something more cross platform than DIBs, you can try using OpenGL.

  • I hope like the Titanic sinking and sucking down life boats with it, Borland doesn't hurt WxWindows in some way. Interbase anyone?

  • Two years ago I was looking for a fine cross-platform toolkit, and I came across wxWindows.

    It's very strange that this toolkit gets so little publicity, as it has a very rich API and lots of nice features - such as a sweet sizer-based XML resource system that makes creating GUI a breeze. It also has wxConfig classes which allow one to easily store configuration settings without worrying about the underlying system (registry on windows, files on UNIX). Its HTML help classes provide an easy, cross-platfor

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