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Programming The Internet IT Technology

Mouse Gestures in Javascript 377

christodd writes "I have become big fan of mouse gestures, a feature included in Opera, Mozilla, and MyIE2. There's even a plugin for IE. Other programs like StrokeIt and Cocoa Gestures are also based around the concept. I can't believe nobody else has thought of this before, but what about mouse gestures in javascript? Turns out that it is incredibly simple to implement, and really handy for those 'feature incomplete' web browsers. Unfortunately, for the total user experience, we'd have to upgrade the whole internet..."
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Mouse Gestures in Javascript

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  • FVWM (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:24AM (#7527818)
    dont forget fvwm [fvwm.org], create your own mouse gestures, 'Strokes', and bind them to any action/command.

    KICKS ASS. [fvwm.org]
  • by dolo666 ( 195584 ) * on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:25AM (#7527829) Journal
    I'm all for the idea of faster, better, stronger ways of browsing. I happen to think that mouse gestures and browser level code should be based in the browser, and controlled by the browser. Like look at all the gestures [mozdev.org] you get with Mozilla.

    (mo: Don't invent the wheel: we have it already)

    The problem I forsee with the jscript use, is a misuse of the mouse gesture jscripts by unethical sites. Because it's the planet Earth, and The Internet, half of the sites will impliment this correctly, the other half will use it as a joke, or for annoying adverts (browser interstitials) and thus cause the whole thing to be crap.

    If it's at a browser level, websites can't fuck with it. So ideally, browsers will want to add the ability to block javascript mouse control, and promptly add this cool feature at a browswer level. I'm all for the idea of mousegestures, but I'm against the ability to tell a website to fuck off using them. (mo: KISS).
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I can easily forsee a new pop-up hell.

      var calls=new Array();
      calls['left']='launchAd()';
      calls['lef t ->up']='launchAd()';
      calls['right']='launchAd()';
      calls['up->down']='launchAd()';
      calls['up']='la unchAd()';
      calls['up->left']='launchAd()';
      calls ['up->right']='launchAd()';
      calls['down']='launch Ad()';
      calls['down->up']='launchAd()';
      calls['do wn->right']='launchAd()';
      calls['down->left']='la unchAd()';

      function launchAd() {
      newWin=window.open("http://www.adserver.com/ad. html", "Buy my
    • I am typing this on a fully gesture-based keyboard. The TouchStream from Fingerworks is essentially two large touchpads, and it is super-configurable. It includes gesture support for mousing, keyboard chording, and many application-specific gestures such asl emacs, vi, Photoshop, and many other bindings for a wide variety of systems (it's just a USB keyboard and mouse to the OS).

      Thus no one can control gesture interaction but me.

      I think this is a much better way to get applications to support gesturing th
    • by Zeinfeld ( 263942 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @11:08AM (#7528770) Homepage
      The problem I forsee with the jscript use, is a misuse of the mouse gesture jscripts by unethical sites.

      I think that is the problem with Jscript full stop. why netscape thought it a good idea to allow any site an almost arbitrary level of control over my browser is beyond me.

      The idea of doing mouse guestures or any other browser extension in JScript, except as a demo is idiotic. The whole value of these systems comes from consistency. Apple do know some things about UIs, the value in the Apple UI is that every program work the same way and you don't have to spend lots of time relearning.

      If I go to one site that has mouse guestures and then another that does not or worse implements them a different way ... yuk!

      But back to the original issue, Jscript sucks. The command set should be partitioned according to the security considerations. Popping up a window has a significant security impact, it can be used to launch a trojan. The toolbars on the browser window are my toolbars, no web site should be able to disable them.

      I use the feature of IE that allows Jscript to be turned off by default and enabled selectively site by site. But this is not as effective as it could be because you often come across idiotic sites using jscript for everything - including navigation. The idea being to force the site designers idea of a user interface down the user's throat.

      • "why netscape thought it a good idea to allow any site an almost arbitrary level of control over my browser is beyond me."

        It's 1994. The top of the line computers are 66Mhz. You want to market a server product that allows people to serve thousands of computers, without requiring super big iron support. You have a client program (Netscape Navigator) to go with your server product (Netscape webserver). Suddenly, it becomes clear to you -- distributed computing. Have the client side do some of the heavy
    • I've wondered what the mouse gestures were....I remember first having Opera ask me about them...got tired of the pop-up and deactivated them. Never thought much about them again.

      Do many people actually use them? I found a link in this thread that took me to the mozilla site that showed what they are. I don't see much use to them. I use keycommands mostly along with normal mouse clicks on buttons and rt. click menus..

  • by KrispyKringle ( 672903 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:25AM (#7527835)
    Or you could have your filtering proxy (like Proxomitron or Privoxy) insert the JavaScript code on every page. Though personally, I'd just use a browser that suppots it.
  • Oh yay! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xSquaredAdmin ( 725927 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:25AM (#7527838)
    Another annoying feature that wannabe web designers can add! Oh well. At least I don't have to worry about it. *Makes sure Disable Javascript is checked*
    • Re:Oh yay! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DeadSea ( 69598 ) * on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:33AM (#7527890) Homepage Journal
      I tried some of the mouse gestures on that page and they conflict with other things for which I use the mouse. For example, try selecting a paragraph of text on the page. It activates one of the mouse gestures causing the page to scoll.

      Really annoying.

    • *Makes sure Disable Javascript is checked*

      I'm not sure if you meant that as a joke or not, but I always have Javascript enabled. Lots of very useful things can be done with it. I've never had a problem with annoying features being used. I'd be interested to know why you see it as a bad thing.
    • Look, don't disable javascript. The W3 org has standardized javascript-browser functionality enough that web designers can create some truly useful things with javascript without [much] browser-specific wrangling. Granted, there may be a lot of useless/annoying stuff too, but Javascript is flexible enough that you should be able to block out most of those with javascript itself (eg. see proxomitron hacks, or "disable-popups" features within various javascript engines). As a web developer myself, I feel t
      • Re:Oh yay! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by PetiePooo ( 606423 )
        ... users like you who view the world in only black and white are going to slow down its adoption and dampen the usefulness of javascript webpages.

        First off, see the comments above regarding accessibility and the hurdles it causes for accessibility.

        Second, don't tell me (or xSquaredAdmin) how my browser should or should not be configured. That's one of my biggest pet peeves; seeing sites that say, for example, "Best viewed at 800x600 resolution on Internet Explorer." As if I'm going to tailor my sys
        • While I would agree with 90% of what you say, do you not think that Javascript has some legitimate use? Especially when building web-based applications?

          I mean really, Javascript can allow for a TON of things that are VERY useful to both developers, AND end-users. (Form validation, etc.)

          Saying

          " My intent in doing this is specifically to, as you say, "slow down its adoption and dampen the usefulness of javascript webpages."

          is not really doing anyone any good.

          Now, saying

          " Fuck me up with your shit

          • Re:Oh yay! (Score:4, Insightful)

            by PetiePooo ( 606423 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @11:41AM (#7529121)
            Sure, Javascript has some useful features. Such as:

            -- Hiding the real URL of a link as the mouse hovers over it. Real useful. Thanks.

            -- Drop down menus. There are plenty of ways that do this without hiding the submenues from browsers used by the handicapped. Check into CSS (or even plain HTML!) for alternatives.

            -- Opening/resizing/closing browser windows. I've got the capability of doing that myself, thanks. If I want to open it within a new tab, this "feature" prevents me from doing that.

            -- Playing MIDI files while I view photos of your pet dog. AAaaaaiiieeeeeeee! (that's me screaming as I hit Alt-F4.)

            Now that we have those out of the way, I admit that there are some useful features. However, for each feature, there are alternatives that, in my mind, provide just as good or better ways to do it. The potential for abuse is too great, and some browsers provide too few abilities to limit abuse while retaining the usefulness. Mozilla and Privoxy in combination are doing a decent job for me for now.

            In effect, your second statement is what I'm saying by simply "Voting with my Back Button." If your web site annoys me, sometimes I'll give you the courtesy of emailing to tell you why I moved on. More often, I'll just silently move on.. and my $$$ goes somewhere else than feeding your progeny.

            Its hard to make something foolproof; fools are so ingenious! The advertisers/spammers will always figureout someway to screw it up..
      • Re:Oh yay! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dublin ( 31215 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @11:52AM (#7529225) Homepage
        As a web developer myself, I feel that javascript's time has come (one third of mozilla is written in Javascript), but users like you who view the world in only black and white are going to slow down its adoption and dampen the usefulness of javascript webpages. Certainly 1/3rd of Mozilla isn't gimmicky cruft...

        Six months ago, I thought JavaScript was a joke, a toy scripting language that just pretended to have real capbilities. I am now FIRMLY convinced that JavaScript may well be the MOST important asset that we have in opposing anyone's efforts to take over, control, or "proprietize" the web, as Microsoft and Macromedia are rolling ahead to do, with .NET and the new Flash.

        Several reasons why I think JavaScript is the best choice for much app development today:

        • Ubiquitous environment: It's the closest thing we have to a universal platform. There is nothing else that even approaches its ubiquity and reach. Mac, Windows, Unix/Linux, whatever, it's there and it just works. No other environment is so pervasive. Like the Bourne Shell in the Unix world, you can count on its presence and rely on it to get the job done, regardless of the platform. No other environment can credibly make that claim today, and I see no other real challengers on the horizon from a cross-platform point-of-view.

        • Capability: There is very little you can't do with it (except the few things network-delivered code has no right doing in the first place, and that's a good thing!) In general, it's safer than Java because it's "sandbox" restricts it to the browser, limiting damage even if something does go wrong. In the better implementations (like Mozilla's) it is capable of absolutely staggering things - but doing so requires a good understanding not only of JavaScript, but also the DOM, CSS, and possibly XML. In reality, you need to know these things anyway, as they ensure your app is platform agnostic.

        • Compatibility: There are far fewer problematic incompatibilities across all the varying JavaScript/JScript/ECMAscript implementations than there are across different versions of the JRE, for instance. If Microsoft would pay some attention to web standards in IE, much of what's pain now would go away. I'm convinced this is why they refuse to fix many obvious bugs - it would weaken their efforts to force .NET on their customers.

        • Object Orientation: While not as snazzy as some other environments, JavaScript does have real objects, and you can do real oo work with it. I suspect the reason we haven't seen more acknowledgement of this is that the elite types turn up their nose at it before they even bother to find out what it can do... As Mozilla has clearly shown, JavaScript is up to doing the heavy lifting, and it's time for the effete snobs that claim otherwise to reassess their own bigotries.

        • Ease of use: JavaScript is not a hard language to get started in. It's easy to do many useful and interesting things with little effort. There is even a huge and rapidly growing base of JavaScripts to be leveraged out there - nothing as comprehensive as CPAN, but several that, taken together, are close.

        • Momentum: JavaScript is finally being recognized for its real abilities, rather than it's image as somethign best suited for only toys. Combined with the factors above, I think JavaScript is the most important development environment in the world today, and the only one that has a real chance of helping make sure that the web stays based on open standards and protocols.


        If you still think JavaScript is a steaming pile, commit to spending a few dozen hours cheking out what it can *really* do before giving up on what may well be the best hope for the open, interoperable future that is of the greatest benefit to us all.
        • Re:Oh yay! (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Moraelin ( 679338 )

          No, actually what you can count on, is that a helluva lot of us have it disabled. Why? Because:

          (1) it is used for pop-unders, on-close pop-ups, taking control of the browser, changing my home-page, adding crap to my links, and other annoyances.

          (2) because in reality it's not needed. I know that to every clueless manager and newbie web designer, it may look like "hey, cool, we can make our site an exciting experience." In practice, most of us _don't_ want an exciting experience, we just want a comfortabl

    • Re:Oh yay! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Friday November 21, 2003 @10:21AM (#7528327) Homepage Journal
      Word. The dumbest features ever thunk up by man are all tied to Javascript...the images that swirl around your cursor, preventing you from clicking on links. The script which loads everything at the same time, which means you wait forever for the one broken image. Cascading menus that don't disappear. Or do disappear, just as you are about to click on them.

      And worst of all, blocking the right mouse button (or as I like to call it, "the button i use to navigate the fucking internet") in the name of "copyright protection." Every time I see this monstrosity, I download all of the images from the site, stick them in a zip file, and email it to the webmaster. "Your copyright protection didn't work. Neither did the mouse button I use to open links in a new window. One of these things can be easily fixed."
      • And your point is?

        Any technology can be used to do irritating things. Does the fact that I can write a virus in C++ mean that nobody should ever use C++ again?

      • Or the bastard websites which try to fuck with the status bar. The status bar already *has* a purpose and your scrolly little message is most likely irrelevant anyhow. Thank the gods for Mozilla, and it's granular Javascript settings.

  • Gestures == Handy (Score:2, Interesting)

    by deadmonk ( 568008 )
    I did something like this a dozen years ago for a CAD program - was seriously happy stuff. In that environment, it was excellent to have the common operations mapped to simple gestures that could be done anywhere on the screen.

    In the world of a clumsy third button on the mouse, it's a little stickier. Handy goodies, is about time someone cooked up the same ideas in a more 'portable' form.
  • Accessability (Score:5, Insightful)

    by goldspider ( 445116 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:29AM (#7527858) Homepage
    While mouse-gestures sounds really neat to a lot of folks, 'features' like this only means more and more websites that are less accessable to people that require assistive technology such as screen-readers (most Javascript features are notorious for being inaccessable).

    It would be nice if, for once, web technology was developed that made content more accessable to people with disabilities instead of less.

    • Furthermore, if the mouse gestures are simple enough, they could be triggered accidentally by users who have no idea why the browser just sent them back to their home page, when they really meant to highlight some text.
  • RSI (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:30AM (#7527866) Journal
    I've never been much of a fan of mouse gestures. Whenever you see someone using them, there's a rapid flick of the wrist in some angled direction... that can't be good for you if repeated often...

    In general I don't have much sympathy for RSI sufferers. (I was going to put sufferers in quotes, but thought better of it :-).

    I use a keyboard something like 8 hours a day, and have done for the last 15 years, programming computers. If anyone is a prime candidate, it's me, and no RSI as yet. On the other hand, I'm reasonably careful - I don't hammer the keyboard, and I try to rest all my forearms on the desk in front of the keyboard. Sensible things to minimise the effect... unlike "gestures", which are just a disaster waiting to happen, IMHO.

    Simon
    • I don't hammer the keyboard, and I try to rest all my forearms on the desk in front of the keyboard

      That must be the key to success, because I'm the same way when I work at the computer. I'm a professional developer with 12 years experience (20 if you could the pre-professional coding time). Never any problems with RSI/CTD or CTS. I shy away from using the mouse whenever possible too.

      My eyesight has gone from 20/15 to 20/20 though, but that may just be from getting a little older. Jury's still out o
    • Re:RSI (Score:3, Interesting)

      by rotomonkey ( 198436 )
      Actually, my personal experience with mouse gestures has been the opposite. I have been using them fairly extensively in Maya for about six years now without problems. Because the gestures need only be approximate, I can execute them with a much more ergonomic arm movement than I can when I need to get the cursor to a specific pixmap to open a menu. In addition, the mouse actually travels considerably less distance when gesturing.

      Granted, Maya can be an incredibly complex interface, with common tools appea
    • by Tom7 ( 102298 )
      Well, you should also consider the possibility that different people have different propensity for the injury!

      I do agree that mousing and, especially, mouse gestures, are bad for RSI.
    • You don't feel bad for the people who are just as careful as you, but still get RSI related injuries? Trust me, they exist. Your sample size (1 person) is a little small to be making such big statements.

      A little google search of 'repetitive stress injuries predisposed' will net a whole bunch of hits. It's not a journal article, but I'm sure you could find one if you looked.
      From: here. [computerbits.com] "You could also be genetically predisposed to CTS, as some people's tendons are not as slippery as other people's. Folks
    • In general I don't have much sympathy for RSI sufferers...

      I use a keyboard something like 8 hours a day, and have done for the last 15 years, programming computers. If anyone is a prime candidate, it's me, and no RSI as yet.


      Perhaps you don't know what really causes RSI. Keyboarding doesn't, or we would have seen RSI cases decades ago, long before computers existed.

      The biggest cause (well, so we think so far) is mouse usage. All that constant reaching for and manipulating the mouse. It can be mitigated w
    • by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @11:32AM (#7529028)
      In general I don't have much sympathy for RSI sufferers. (I was going to put sufferers in quotes, but thought better of it :-).

      You're right that these "gestures" we're talking about do sound like exactly what the medical literature says causes RSI problems. Wrist-turning moves, over and over, are the basic cause of computer-related RSIs.

      But your sample of one is a crock when it comes to dismissing everyone who has pain from this. Extremely useful "knowledge," that -- except all it does is arm you to dismiss other people and feel smug about not having been unlucky yourself. I used to work in bookstores in college, and some of the older clerks had RSI pain from shelving. Not something they were privileged to avoid in their jobs.

      To think people are submitting articles to JAMA (003 Jun 11;289(22):2963-9 -- "Computer use and carpal tunnel syndrome: a 1-year follow-up study") trying to figure out whether carpal tunnel is associated with keyboards or mice or a combination. All we had to do was ask you and you could tell us it was a matter of being "reasonably careful." (Note -- those are quotes.)

      Hey, guess what that study (and others) have indicated? It's mouse use, not the keyboard, that seems to be a main culprit. RSIs from computer use are almost always related to wrist movement. Trackballs (with a wrist rest especially) seem to be less problematic. Hmm, maybe we could use this information to prevent other people from undergoing a lot of pain, encourage trackballs instead... Oh, sorry, we don't have any sympathy for those people, 'cause they injure themselves out of a lack of common sense. No need to publish medical recommendations to guide businesses in their purchasing, for example. Morons. Let 'em "suffer."

      • "Oh, sorry, we don't have any sympathy for those people, 'cause they injure themselves out of a lack of common sense. No need to publish medical recommendations to guide businesses in their purchasing, for example. Morons. Let 'em "suffer."

        Note. These are not quotes.

        I said I didn't have much sympathy. I didn't say I ridiculed them.

        Simon.
    • RSI is actually caused by using your hands while under too much stress. Really bad ergonomics (keyboard on desk while you sit on floor, e.g.) will make your hands hurt, but you can't keep it up long enough to damage yourself long term. Moderately bad ergonomics (standard desk situation) will make it require a certain amount of stress in your life. Really good ergonomics (special keyboard, etc.) might save you if you have to work under a lot of stress.

      There are actually trends in stress-related problems. It
  • by pointym5 ( 128908 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:32AM (#7527879)
    If that site is supposed to be a demo, it does not serve the purpose well; it doesn't work at all in Mozilla (1.5).
  • Pie menus (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:34AM (#7527901) Homepage
    Actually ... mouse gestures are better implemented as Pie Menus [piemenus.com].
    -russ
  • KDE 3.2 (Score:3, Informative)

    by 10Ghz ( 453478 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:37AM (#7527930)
    In KDE 3.2 you can control the entire desktop with mouse-gestures, not just browser.
  • Why this is stupid. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cybermace5 ( 446439 ) <g.ryan@macetech.com> on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:37AM (#7527933) Homepage Journal
    Honestly, it's a pretty stupid idea. Let me illustrate why: scroller mice. Once you get used to a scroll mouse, then you have to use a computer that just has a normal mouse, it's a major pain.

    If you depend on every web page to implement mouse gestures, then you'll get this effect from page to page while you're browsing! It would be annoying to no end. And it's not an easily visible thing you can check for, unless each web page also uses some kind of cheesy "Gestures Enabled" logo. And each site might implement it differently, so that strokes mean different things from page to page. I repeat: stupid idea.

    A user interface tool should be just that: part of the user interface. Just like a keyboard or mouse, gestures take time to become accustomed to. A user interface feature needs to act the same way no matter what you're doing.

    • Granted, these are all valid issues when learning a new interface, but with that thinking wouldn't we be better off using keyboards and f-keys with no mouses [cornell.edu] (after all, at one time you couldn't expect to regularly find a mouse on anything but a Mac [lowendmac.com])... or taken to an extreme - who would want to use a clinky keyboard where you have to type in everything when you can just re-use paper cards, and they stay sorted in their carts so neatly !

      Not trying to discount your very valid points, but if there is one t
      • by cybermace5 ( 446439 ) <g.ryan@macetech.com> on Friday November 21, 2003 @10:24AM (#7528349) Homepage Journal
        This is a user interface feature that randomly turns on and off or changes behavior, depending on which web page you're on. How popular do you think the mouse would be, if for random periods it switched directions, reversed buttons, or turned off completely?

        • How popular do you think the mouse would be, if for random periods it switched directions, reversed buttons, or turned off completely?

          You mean your's doesn't ? Time for a new optical...


          Seriously though, websites are already notorious for inconsistent interfaces. Think of it this way, one behavior (using js) that works the same in all browsers for a given website...
    • Here's another reason: that eraserhead thing on Toshiba and IBM laptops. The thought of trying mouse gestures on that makes my hands hurt just thinking about it.

      And of course the issue mentioned by others on selecting text and generally doing other stuff with normal mouse (eraserhead) movements. Adding gestures that I have never heard of, yet conflict with normal use of the internet, is a dumb idea.

      • I'm not slamming the concept of mouse gestures in general; some people like them and do find them useful. What I'm looking at here is making the user interface decision up to the web developer, and not the user. Going from page to page and either having mouse gestures, not having them, or having some wierd implementation; that's annoying.

        It will be the final straw that kills Javascript (if this becomes slightly popular), as people will turn off Javascript in order to take back control of their user interfa
    • I'd also like to add that the submitter is merely spamming all of us with his own application. Check the email address. And he wants you to link to the JAR hosted by his site; is this another "make it popular and then charge for it" scheme?
  • My first ooops... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Dave21212 ( 256924 ) <dav@spamcop.net> on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:37AM (#7527935) Homepage Journal

    My first ooops with javascript gestures: I tried to select/copy the text to send it to a few pals so that in case (more like when) it get's slashdotted they can read it. I selected the text at the top, pulled down and to the right, and the window closed (as it should).

    It only took a few seconds to notice the status bar at the bottom which indicates if a gesture will be activated when you release the click... keep an eye on that when using using these. You can see if the gesture is 'blank' = it's not going to run an action. Quite handy, pretty cool. I've already grabbed the .js file !
  • Actually... (Score:5, Informative)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:39AM (#7527948) Homepage
    Actually... Mozilla's gestures *are* implemented in javascript. Download the Optimoz MozGest .xpi file [mozdev.org] (or find it on your hard drive), open the .xpi file in winzip, and there's all the .js implementation for it.
  • What's the point with that?

    How would we know what they think is a useful mouse gesture? I'd hate to accidentally move the mouse up, and then down in a "gesture" to suddenly have the product pages of some company open.

    If we don't decide what gestures are available and can apply them to all sites like a standard, then what's the point with them?

    That's about as stupid to me as letting web developers decide which kind of keyboard shortcuts to use to browse web pages.
  • - It breaks the right mouse button menu that users have come to expect.... Even in Firebird, the gestures are not noted in the status bar.

    - It wastes bandwidth, every page using it would need a copy of this Javascript snippet (or linked to a .js file).

    There are good uses for javascript (example [rahga.com]), where bandwidth can be saved and the user experience gains a net improvement. This, however, is just another bad use.
  • First of all, I would like to say that pressing TAB is not a problem for me. In fact, keyboard shortcuts and chords are the fastest way to use a computer... not mousing around. I'm surprised such an idea is actually posted on a linux site.

    Second, the whole idea behind shortcuts and such is that every user has their own familiar shortcuts. If you just launch a site, you can't assume they've defined the mouse gestures/shortcuts that you use... so why would you use them anyways?

    Also, I'm just wondering ab

  • As an experiment, download a copy of Netscape 2. Attempt to surf the net for an hour. Does it work? Now, try again with Netscape 3.

    If I were into conspiracy theories, I'd say that someone deliberately distributes web page creation tools that pointlessly use features that tickle bugs in older browsers - eventually forcing upgrades.

    Warning - this page is old-browser dehanced.

    Netscape 3 has all the features I want in a browser, except one - it's buggy. It can format text and graphics. It does forms. I

    • And you use windows 3.1 because it fits on 4 floppies?
    • whatever, dude; Netscape 3 has a horrible table renderer (as does Netscape 4), and complicated layouts with tables are what you'll get if you don't/can't use CSS for your layout.

      As for your 28.8 modem argument, there's this amazing new invention called the "CD-ROM"; web browsers were distributed on these in the past, back when it would have been more onerous to download them.
    • Netscape 3 has all the features I want in a browser, except one - it's buggy. It can format text and graphics. It does forms. It does ssl (security).

      The SSL support in that version of Netscape is limited, buggy and breakable. SSL 2.0 has quite a few problems that were corrected in SSL 3.0 which was the first time an experienced professional cryptographer was responsible for the design.

      This is a technology forum. If you want to use obsolete antiquated tools for the nostalgia benefit then go ahead. Just d

  • I can't scroll the page to the place I want it to be. If I grab the thumbnail on the scroll bar, then drag it until it reaches the point I want the page to remain at, when I release the button, the page jumps to an entirely different place.

    I also tried selecting some text, and it resized my browser window so that the bottom right is off the screen. I liked my browser the size it was, thanks!

    Websites that are 'MouseGestures Enabled' are safer for viewers.

    I don't think so. More annoying, perhaps...

    E
  • by jvmatthe ( 116058 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @09:55AM (#7528090) Homepage
    I can't believe nobody else has thought of this before, but what about mouse gestures in javascript?
    Well, if that were only the case.

    A quick search through the USPTO database shows that in fact Amazon has already claimed the mouse-gestures patent, specifically referencing Javascript. Not only that, but they've also patented the one-gesture purchase, apparently to be implemented on their site at some point in the future.

    It doesn't stop there, however. IBM claims that they patented this back in the 1980s, but didn't specifically mention a mouse but rather a generic input device. And SCO, in one of their counterclaims, says that gestures are part of the original UNIX and that in fact there are over a million instances of copyright infringement in both IBM and Amazon's patent filings.

    And, if only that were the end of it. Disney has jumped into the fray with claims that Steamboat Willie has mouse gestures in it, reducing this to a boiling cauldron of copyright, patents, and trademark issues.

    Perhaps the author of the Javascript code should look more carefully into possible IP infringement issues before posting what amounts to a boast on Slashdot about how novel and clever they've been.

    Hope this helps.

  • With a name like StrokeIt, I would expect some sort of tactile-feedback interface that works with certain websites.
  • It appears that mouse gestures are the type ahead find of the windows world. Let me explain. In the Windows world you're stuck having to use the mouse for everything, where you can use the keyboard it's those damn arrow keys that aren't close to the rest of the keyboard. In the Unix world the mouse was more of an afterthought, you can use it, but it's generally a crutch. Once you become a master of the keyboard things go much faster.

    While there are some mouse gestures that are difficult, maybe even i
  • ...we just couldn't be bothered.
  • Since the page from the article is slashdotted, here's another example [superflippy.net] of a gestural menu made with javascript. I did this about 4 years ago, and the pages contain links to some of Xerox's original reserach on the subject for those who are terribly interested.
  • I can't believe nobody else has thought of this before, but what about mouse gestures in javascript?

    The Mozilla Gestures plugin is actually implemented in Javascript. So yes, someone has thought to implement them in Javascript. Look under your mozilla directory under chrome\mozgest\content, and you'll see the whole host of gestures javascript files.

  • I don`t care who you are, or what you make, but never should a product have the phrase "stroke it" in it unless you`re in the pr0n business. It just has the wrong implications!
  • by websensei ( 84861 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @10:13AM (#7528241) Journal
    This is inane.

    Repeat after me:
    "Web Standards."

    It belabors the obvious to point out that this will never be implemented my more than a tiny fraction of sites, that it actively interferes with normal point/click/drag behaviors (like highlighting text? click, drag left->right?) and that learning PER-SITE navigation is simply ridiculous.

    It's not that no-one's thought of it before, it's that it's a bad idea on the face of it.

    • You are absolutely right. Instead of trying to "patch" the sites (or the browser for that matter), we MUST insist in web (HTML) standards.
      We would be much better off by sending (as I do if the site has any use to me) a polite request to the webmaster cc to the marketing/client relation dept. asking them to FIX the site so it would work in well behaved browsers.
  • A Thneed's a Fine-Something-That-All-People-Need!
    It's a click. It's a scroll. It's a forward. It's a back.

    But it has OTHER uses. Yes, far beyond that.

    You can use it for cookies. For bookmarks! For links!
    Or reloads! Or about anything you can think!"

    -- appologies to Dr Seuss.
  • Please don't "enhance" your web pages with this! It's a fine feature for those who want it in their browsers, and who can turn it off, but I do all these shortcuts with the "cumbersome" keyboard keys, and so would like my mouse function to remain the same.

    (I do appreciate this for its hack value, though; good job!)
  • .. we had to point and click. and we liked it.

    sheesh. mouse gestures. kids these days.

  • by Cereal Box ( 4286 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @11:17AM (#7528856)
    I don't get the fascination with mouse gestures. Is it really that much more convenient than clicking a button or pressing a key? From the Mozilla gestures page:

    View Source - Left-Down-Right-Down-Left (draw a squarish S)

    Is right-clicking and choosing "view source" such a chore that you'd rather draw "S" shapes instead?

    Reload (bypass cache) - Up-Down-Up

    I dunno, pressing "F5" always seemed to work for me.

    Personally I think the obsession with mouse gestures boils down to the typical geek fascination with things that, impractical and useless they may be, are just "exciting" for some reason.

    Hey look, Slashdot implemented gestures.

    Submit post - Left-Right-Up-Down-Down-Down-Up-Left-Down-Right-Up -Right. How did I ever live without these things?
    • Don't pick some of the more obtuse and complicated mouse gestures and then say "Hey, this sucks!" Of course you wouldn't like them if they were all like that!

      I can't speak for Moz, as I haven't used it with gestures much, so this is Opera-related:

      I'll tell you why mouse gestures rule. Page navigation. I tend to flip back and forth between pages a LOT, especially on sites like Slashdot. Click into a story, check out some comments, read a sub-comment, go back to the main story comments, go forward to see if
  • First of all, I think mouse gestures are wanky and stupid. Gamers, maybe, find them easy because they're used to gesturing crap with their mice. Mine sits and lights up my table more than anything else.

    People constantly forget that in order to reach the largest audience possible for your site, you have to make it compatible with the largest audience out there. Far too many sites, attempting to be universally-accessible, have opted to include features that older browsers don't render correctly, can't d
  • Just have the proxy rewrite your pages to insert the Javascript. I don't know if this would be easy to implement with currently existing proxies but it seems to me that as projects go, this one would be trivial for someone who knew something about the software in question. Which ain't me :)
  • Stupid. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @12:40PM (#7529688) Homepage Journal
    Note MozGest adds much more functionality besides "moving the mouse".
    - Rockers: Hold one button, press other to perform action
    - Wheel rockers: Hold a button and rotate wheel to perform action
    - Custom gestures: You don't like some? Remove it! You'd prefer it done otherwise? Modify assignment. You have a new amazing idea? Write it, bookmarklet style in "custom gesture" field. Pissed off with LMB disturbing with selection? Switch to RMB!

    Plus for those who protest against "flick of wrist" - I think moving your hand 2mm left to launch "back" is less stressing than moving it 5cm, to reach the "back" button.

    Problem: Performance. With multiple heavy pages opening, on average hardware, it slows down seriously and sometimes gestures don't get recognised.
  • by kavau ( 554682 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @01:45PM (#7530444) Homepage
    What I'd much rather see is a "next page in a series" tag in HTML. Imagine reading a multipage article. At the end of the page, instead of finding that stupid link (which often seems to be where you least expect it), you could just press ALT-RIGHT (or right-click/next, or mouse:right-down, or whatever) to go to the next page. Maybe I could even configure my browser to automatically preload that next page.

    HTML and all its extensions should focus on providing the document's contents and structure. The method of navigation is entirely up to the browser application, and should not be decided by the web designer.

    • by Idarubicin ( 579475 ) on Friday November 21, 2003 @02:31PM (#7530935) Journal
      Opera has already implemented this functionality in its newer versions. There's now a Fast Forward button on the toolbar. It's pretty good at figuring out what the next page should be. In Slashdot's site, it pulls up the comments for the next story; on Google it returns the next page of results. I don't know anything about the algorithm behind it, however.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique. -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]

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