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Java Programming The Internet

JCert Is Dead 23

Posted by timothy from the quick-beat-it dept.
Ian Mitchell writes "According to jCert's web site the initiative has finally expired. For several years jCert promoted the concept of 'certify once, recognized everywhere,' describing itself as 'a consortium of Java-based enterprise-development software vendors and other interested organizations that work together to define a single training and certification path for employers and individuals.' It once included such heavyweights as IBM, Oracle, Sun Microsystems, BEA Systems, Hewlett-Packard, Sybase and iPlanet. However the core jCert members gradually left to pursue their own certification strategies, and IBM - the last remaining member with a J2EE platform - withdrew its certification roles on January 1st."
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JCert Is Dead More

JCert Is Dead

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  • Does anyone worry about getting certified anymore? I've never known a certified anyone that was worth their weight in dead cock-a-roaches.
    • And beyond that, do you folks think that certification provides a decent learning path.

      Pretend that I want to learn more Java|Oracle|Unix sysadmin, etc, and might go through my local university extension. If I learn just from books, it seems like I will only learn some aspects of a topic, and will neglect other chunks. A classroom and teacher help to provide a more well rounded learning experience.

      I don't want to pay $1000 for the actual certification test, and don't care too much about becoming certified. I just want to learn useful stuff. Would it be worth it to just follow the syllabus for the Certification?

      • Re:Does certification actually matter? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Generally, the certification syllabii I've seen were extremely oriented toward passing the tests, with poorly worded, deliberately confusing, overly pedantic problems.

        Unfortunately, I have nothing constructive to say.

      • Re:Does certification actually matter? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ChaseTec ( 447725 ) <chase@osdev.org> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @12:02AM (#7900167) Homepage
        Disclaimer: I'm a Sun Certified Java & Solaris Instructor

        And beyond that, do you folks think that certification provides a decent learning path.
        You've apparently had a bad experience somewhere. Are you a MCSE by any chance? ;)Joking aside, certification should provide you a good opportunity to show the learning paths you've been down already. You shouldn't learn to get certified. If you take the Sun Java certs you'll see the it's designed to see if you actually use Java for what's being tested; Such a wide area of questions is asked that you are not expected to score very high. If you look at Sun's percentages to pass they are around 50-60% because you have to have been using Java for a while to come into contact with that much material.

        If I learn just from books, it seems like I will only learn some aspects of a topic, and will neglect other chunks. A classroom and teacher help to provide a more well rounded learning experience.
        Yes and no, it's all a matter of the course, teacher, and test. There used to be many course out there that were designed to get someone MSCE certified in a week or two. This explains why I had to show a MSCE how to install a cpu (slot 1) a couple years back when I was working tech support. One of the Sun courses I teach that raises a lot of certification questions is SL-275 [sun.com] for previous programmer that are new to Java. It's the course that supports the Certified Java Programmer exam. When people ask how much study they need after that course I typically tell them one solid month of using Java and 1 week of study time.

        I don't want to pay $1000 for the actual certification test,
        Sun's range from $150 to around $400 for most.

        and don't care too much about becoming certified. I just want to learn useful stuff.
        And with todays surplus of people wanting tech job every little bit that gives you a chance to get an interview helps because it's a sure thing that everyone else has a resume saying that they know stuff.

        • Re:Does certification actually matter? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by AJWM ( 19027 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @12:49AM (#7900413) Homepage
          And with todays surplus of people wanting tech job every little bit that gives you a chance to get an interview helps

          Exactly right. I'm a software developer, but in the course of all my Unix development experience I've also had to administer a lot of Unix boxes (just about every flavor). I've also maintained a couple of small networks. So after being unemployed as a developer for over a year, I brushed up on Solaris specifics (I have an ancient Sparc box doing server duty in the basement, and a Solaris X86 box beside my main Linux SMP box under my desk), got my Sun Cert for Solaris System Administrator, and am currently employed on contract to IBM as a Solaris sys admin (yes, IBM and Solaris -- managed services at a customer site, over 300 Sun boxes from Netras to SunFires plus other assorted Unix and Linux flavors).

          (The pay isn't quite up to software engineer pay, but it beats working at Best Buy. ;-)

          Despite rewriting my resume with a heavy slant to my actual admin experience, I don't know that it would have been looked at without the cert. Not that Sparcstation and X86 experience helps much when you open up the cabinet doors on an SF 15000...

        • How can I become a Sun Certified Java Instructor? (I'm already a SCJP, if that matters.)

        • If you take the Sun Java certs you'll see the it's designed to see if you actually use Java for what's being tested

          I respectfully disagree with this statement. Most of the lowest-level Sun cert, "Java Certified Programmer", asks questions can be answered quickly from the JDK javadocs or by running a 2 second javac...but, of course those aren't available. E.g., the answer for many examples where code is given is "Program will not compile". Cheap.

          -ed

          • Not only that, but I think it is pretty silly to have a programming test that doesn't involve programming. Stupid things like trying to find the syntax error in the code without using the compiler, figuring out what the heck kind of mess a combination of different nested layouts will produce and remembering that adding two chars (in Java) produces an int. An experienced programmer types in fewer syntax errors and thus doesn't need to grep for them in code; in any case the compiler usually gives good cl
    • Does anyone worry about getting certified anymore?

      As I think most people would agree, the certs themselves don't actually measure how good you are. It just says you could pass a test. But it is part of the Hiring Game(TM).

      A bigger question I think is how far on the certification trail do you go? For example, having been certified as a java programmer, do you do you keep getting higher level certs (developer, web component, architect, etc...) or not?

      I think that the answer to this depends to a larg
  • You mean... most IT certifications are actually a joke? Now that's news!

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