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Mozilla Programming The Internet IT Technology

Introducing Nvu, A Web-Authoring Application 88

Posted by timothy from the thanks-michael dept.
An anonymous reader writes "MozillaZine is reporting that the first public beta of Nvu has been released. "What's that?", I hear you cry. Well, Nvu (pronounced 'N-View', short for 'New View') is a new open source WYSIWYG Web page creator/editor with FTP facilities that produces standards-compliant code. It is based on Mozilla Composer and is being developed by ex-Netscape employee Daniel Glazman's new company, Disruptive Innovations, under licence for Lindows.com. All the code for Nvu will be released back into the wild under the MPL/LGPL/GPL tri-licence. More information is available in the Nvu FAQ. Users of LindowsOS, other Linux distributions and Windows 98 and later can download Nvu 0.1 now." TheWanderingHermit writes points out that the feature list includes "(finally!) the ability to include and edit forms."
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Introducing Nvu, A Web-Authoring Application More

Introducing Nvu, A Web-Authoring Application

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  • Impressive. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Beatbyte ( 163694 ) on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @09:37PM (#8176158) Homepage
    If you see his screenshots, they seem impressive. I'm at 85% right now and plan on doing some testing tonight with it.

    1 less reason to get stuck with DreamWeaver MX at work ;)
    • That sounds like switching from Photoshop to the Gimp. I don't think this thing is quite ready for primetime.
      • I've had problems with Dreamweaver saving (error in a JavaScript file that actually does the file i/o). My company's web services department has decided to use HomeSite (comes with DWMX) instead of DreamWeaverMX because of some other bugs they found (destroying code bugs).

        Either way, step in right direction, no? ;)
    • > 1 less reason to get stuck with DreamWeaver MX at work ;)

      Dream Weaver... I believe you can get me through the night
      Dream Weaver... I believe we can reach the morning light.

      http://www.lyrictracker.com/show.php?id=NTk3ODU=

  • Missing DLLs on Windows (Score:5, Informative)

    by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @10:13PM (#8176359) Homepage Journal
    For Windows users... like Firebird (pre 0.8) you can just unzip this and go. However, you may get it bitching about missing DLLs (I did, on a reasonably clean install of XP). The two that were missing were C runtime libraries, which I managed to download at dll-files.com (never heard of it before, but it works). msvcp70.dll [dll-files.com] and msvcr70.dll [dll-files.com]. As ever, exercise caution, although it has worked for me :-)

  • Who would have thunk it? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 7-Vodka ( 195504 ) on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @10:20PM (#8176395) Journal
    Lindows, the new model free-software citizen. They're also supporting kde-look.org and kde-apps.org... What else are they contributing?

  • Where is the open source? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by axxackall ( 579006 ) on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @10:22PM (#8176411) Homepage Journal
    From the web-site [nvu.com]: Nvu is 100% open source

    Downloading, untar.gzippining, looking for the source code among all those x86 dlls, still looking, ... not found!

    Hey! Either stop lying that it is 100% open source or publish a compilable source. Now!

    • This is the same thinking - it's 100% open source, but links to a few system dlls.

      Parallel with a proprietary application, that links to a few open source (kernel) system libraries, and maybe a few LGPL libraries as well.

      • This is the same thinking - it's 100% open source, but links to a few system dlls.

        It doesn't link to system dlls - it is distributed with system specific dlls.

        Still think that it is open source?

        Let me put it even more straight for you:

        1. download it;
        2. untar.gzip it;
        3. remove all binary-libraries;
        4. try to build it or run it;
        5. try to understand that it is not open source if it is not buildable or runable without those binaries;
        • try to understand that it is not open source if it is not buildable or runable without those binaries

          It might not be GPL "compliant" if those binaries aren't standard system binaries, but that doesn't mean it isn't open source.
        • it is distributed with system specific dlls.

          The DLLs in question are the Microsoft C Runtime Libraries mentioned in another thread, which were not distributed with the archive. Call it an artifact of developing the windows version in MSVC++ (Visual Studio)

          And no, it's not open source at the moment because we can't download the source. It is planned to be open source once it gets more feature complete though.

    • > From the web-site: Nvu is 100% open source

      Also from the website:
      "Nvu 0.1 binary test builds are now available for Linux and Windows. The source code of Nvu will be released when we reach a more complete product in terms of features. The code will be tri-licensed MPL/GPL/LGPL and we'll contribute it back to Mozilla.org at that time."

      I don't know enough about these licenses to know if this is kosher though.

    • Re:Where is the open source? (Score:5, Informative)

      by glazou ( 691682 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2004 @01:24AM (#8177482)

      Hi there; I am Daniel Glazman, the lead engineer on Nvu project. The only reason why the source is not here _today_ is because we are totally overloaded. We got, in the last weeks, a so increasing number of requests for a preview version that we wanted/needed FIRST OF ALL to address that request. Hey, if we release nothing, /.ers say it's a fake project and when we release something, I read complaints ;-)

      More seriously, we're only humans and we gave higher priority to the test package, just because much more people care about that... We hope to be able to release the source by the end of this week.

      More info about the missing Windows dlls or linux libs is available from my blog [easyconnect.fr]. Thanks.

      • The only reason why the source is not here _today_ is because we are totally overloaded.

        And I bet the slashdotting you are receiving is really helping, huh? At least the article was posted in the developers.slashdot.org ghetto:)

        • And I bet the slashdotting you are receiving is really helping, huh?

          I hope you find some pleasure attacking people without knowing them. Just ask other Mozillians, or my former Netscape colleagues : when I say the _only_ reason is time, the _only_ reason is time. The decision to make the source available with 0.1 was taken long before this /. post and your so friendly answer.

          • I read his post as kinda sympathetic. Everyone knows how a /.ing tends to take down sites, and the fact that developers.slashdot.org doesn't get a huge amount of posts and/or readers _does_ help mitigate that a bit.

            Don't take things so seriously - this is the /. comments section after all :P

            • I was totally sympathetic. I only pointed out 'developers' because things could be MUCH worse for his website, and, well, for a place that is 'for Nerds', developers.slashdot.org seems to get far less traffic than ask, YRO, or games, which is kinda sad.

          • Chill. Go reread it. I was clearly sympathizing with the guy. He is on a schedule, being hammered, and then Slashdot shows up with fuel on the fire.

            Lithium: it does a body good.
      • I am actually surprised you guys released compiled
        version. Why take the time. Just dump code out there
        (I assume compile process is well documented with
        Mozilla). In any case, your efforts are appreciated,
        especialy when the tri-licensed release happens, but
        even before that too.

  • Warning - HTML files containing PHP code (Score:5, Informative)

    by a.koepke ( 688359 ) on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @10:36PM (#8176501)
    Don't use this program to edit any HTML files containing PHP code. It does not like PHP code and will actually modify the file and partially remove your PHP code.

    So... unless you feel like loosing your programming code and completely stuffing up your file, stay away from this program.

  • Not running on Fedora Core 1 (Score:4, Informative)

    by mshiltonj ( 220311 ) <mshiltonjNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday February 03, 2004 @11:24PM (#8176800) Homepage Journal
    I just downloaded it to my Fedora Core 1 machine, and couldn't getting it to run.

    NOTE: The tarball unpacks into the current directory! It doesn't create a subdirectory for itself!

    There is no 'install' script at all. Untarring is the installation, so put it where you want.

    When I run it, it fails and reports that I'm missing two libraries, one I do have and one I don't.

    I looked at the start script and it's got a Mozilla 1.7a path hardcoded in there. I'm running Mozilla 1.6, so that's probably part of the problem.

    The script also seems to expect an installation of the MRE (Mozilla Runtime Environment) Is this it [mozilla.org]?

    There's no README file, no LICENSE file, no docs of any kind. It'd be nice to have the dependencies identified.

    Anyone else getting it running on Fedora Core 1? With or without Mozilla 1.7a? With or without the MRE/GRE?

    Still hoping for the best...
    • I did the same. If you're getting a complaint about libstdc++.so.3 then do this:
      ln -s /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5.0.5 /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.3

      After that it ran. No symbol mismatches.

      Matthew
      • I did the same. If you're getting a complaint about libstdc++.so.3 then do this:

        ln -s /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5.0.5 /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.3

        That was the problem, and after making that link, I am able to start nvu. Thanks!

        Mod parent up!

  • dumb abbreviations (Score:3, Funny)

    by Teach ( 29386 ) * <graham@NospAm.grahammitchell.com> on Wednesday February 04, 2004 @12:00AM (#8176994) Homepage

    Nvu (pronounced 'N-View', short for 'New View')

    While I agree that Nvu is a pretty cool name, why do people feel the need to "shorten" something that's already just two syllables? And NewView even seems to roll off the tongue more easily than N-View.

    At least it's not as bad as "WWW", which is a nine-syllable "abbreviation" for the three-syllable phrase "World-Wide Web". Radio announcers all over are still cursing Tim Berners-Lee for that one.

    • Radio announcers all over are still cursing Tim Berners-Lee for that one.
      That's because they are even dumber than the abreviation and haven't figured out the one syllable slang replacement (dub dub dub)
    • Would you rather say "du-ble-you du-ble-you du-ble-you" or type "WorldWideWeb"?

      Could you imagine? "worldwideweb.netscape.org" "worldwideweb.eff.org" "worldwideweb.cnn.com"

      Yuck!

      • Would you rather say "du-ble-you du-ble-you du-ble-you" or type "WorldWideWeb"?

        Granted, www was intended to be a typed abbreviation rather than a spoken one. He could have gone with "web", though. It's just as easy to type (easier, in fact, since the letters are on different fingers) and clocks in with a mere one syllable! It's a win-win-win! (heh)

        In fact, I think "web.netscape.com" even looks nicer!

        • Of course, you realize that you can call it anything you want. "fred.netscape.com"; "getlost.netscape.com"; "html.netscape.com"; or even "netscape.com". "www" is just the common convention, but lots [mywebsitelinks.com] of [slashdot.org] sites [microsoft.com] don't follow it.

  • My Letter to Nvu Regarding Source (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Landaras ( 159892 ) <neil AT wehneman DOT com> on Wednesday February 04, 2004 @12:24AM (#8177178) Homepage
    I just sent this to 'feedback at nvu dot com', and will post whatever response I get to this thread.

    *************

    I recently learned of your project through a link from Slashdot.org.

    Link to Slashdot story: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/0 2/04/0050215&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=154&tid=156&t id=95

    It appears that you are definitely filling a need within the F/OSS community, and I applaud your group and Lindows, your sponsor, for that.

    There appears to be some concern from the Slashdot community about the availability of source for Nvu. Although I am not a programmer of any real skill (and cannot fully judge if the tar.gz I downloaded contains human-readable source), others have complained that the full source is NOT included.

    Link to relevant Slashdot comment:
    http://developers.slashdot.org/comments. pl?sid=954 28&cid=8176411

    Although your site states that this is a Beta release, you also claim to build off of Mozilla Composer, which is available under the GPL (and two other licenses). If Mozilla Composer was distributed only under the GPL, it would require you to make full source available to those you re-distribute to.

    However, I have noticed that Composer is available under the GPL / MPL / LGPL. I would greatly appreciate clarification of how your obligations differ under these licenses, as I am significantly less familiar with them. You may also wish to update your FAQ with this information, as I am sure I am not the only one with these questions.

    I look forward to your reply, and the clearing up of any confusion that may exist in regards to this. Additionaly, I anticipate using Nvu and providing feedback to make this a great product for Lindows and all other users of F/OSS.

    Thank you for your time.

    - Neil Wehneman

    ***************
    • Keep an eye on the thread [slashdot.org]. I was gonna berate you for not reading it, but I notice that he posted his message one hour after you. Slagging you for not noticing might be unfair even on slashdot.
    • I got the following from Tom Welch (CTO of Lindows) shortly after emailing him:

      ***

      Neil,

      The full source will be made available shortly. We are running fast
      and wanted to get it out as quickly as possible.

      Tom

      ***

      I emailed him back with the following:

      ***

      Tom,

      I appreciate the quick reply, and understand the hecticness of your
      situation. If you or a staffer can't get back to me for a couple of
      days, that's fine. However, I stil have my initial confusion about the
      license interaction involved with N

  • Say what you want about Lindows.com... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Lindows.com takes lots of bullets from the Slashdot crowd, but it sure seem to me that Robertson and company actually deliver. Here's a list of things just in the last few months that Lindows.com has done:

    nVu released - Seems likea great product to rival Frontpage and is available for all Linux flavors and MSWin. Seems like Lindows.com paid for this whole thing. They seem to support lots of open source if you look at: http://lindows.com/opensource

    Desktop Linux Summit - Just announced that it will be held

  • Nvu Source now available (Score:3, Informative)

    by glazou ( 691682 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2004 @10:51AM (#8179472)

    The title says it all. MPL/GPL/LGPL as promised. Get it there [glazman.org].

    • Wow! I'd just like to say thank you for all your hard work. I can't believe a few /. license trolls, who will probably never even look at the source(let alone submit patches), was enough for you to work extra hard and get the source out that fast. Like you haven't done enough for us already! They didn't deserve it, but thanks again and keep up the great work.

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