Bloggers Assail Movable Type's New Pricing Scheme

cioxx writes "An immensely popular weblog publishing tool, Movable Type, has announced a new pricing model based on "support level, number of authors permitted, and the number of weblogs permitted per license". MT3D (Developer Edition) for non-commercial users has drifted away from its full-featured, free predecessor and managed to upset many blog authors whose entry summaries can be seen via the trackback feature originating from the initial MT3D announcement. Is this a case of bait-n-switch, or simply a company trying to capitalize on its dominant market share? WordPress (GPL), which is an equally powerful CMS, seems like a perfect candidate for those who are considering a switch to a non-crippled, free alternative."

No big deal -- stick with version 2

[crashnbur]

You can upgrade to as high as version 2.66.1, and the new pricing scheme won't affect your Movable Type site. That's what we're doing at Polstate.com [polstate.com].

By the way, shameless plug:

Polstate.com is the Political State Report [polstate.com], a web site held together by contributors from each state (US) who report on grassroots and statewide political news, especially when relevant to local and state elections. We offer a different flavor of political news, distinct from most other blogs and news sites that focus on the Presidency, war on terror, and national economy.

Not surprise

[AMG]

The november 2003 issue of Business 2.0 [business2.com] showed an intention to go in that direction, even the MT license debate [movableblog.com] gave clues a long before. It shouldnt be a bad surprise for anyone, but a great loss to the blog comunity.

Oh really now

[liquidsin]

Or, we could all just RTFSite, which apparently our dear submitter didn't do, and see that they clearly state that they will still offer a free version. I read the news yesterday (since I've been waiting for the 3.0 release to install it) and was slightly disturbed by the "pricing scheme", but I actually read the whole thing, and it does state that they will still offer a free version (the google cache hasn't been updated since the new stuff has been posted, so it's pretty pointless to check it out).

"Mena's Corner" Flooded With Complaints

[hbo]

The post containing the rationale [sixapart.com] for the licensing change contains hundreds of trackbacks from the MT community. Guess what most of them are saying.

Re:Pass the crack

[levell]

Not only do they still have a free version but also, no-one is forced to upgrade. It seems people aren't interested in whether it's free as in speech but when it's free as in beer, changes in the pricing structure bring bitter recriminations.

I use Coranto

[PrimeWaveZ]

Because I love Perl and I don't much care for PHP/SQL. Check out Coranto here. [gweilo.org] It's more of a news system (the successor to NewsPro) but it works quite well for my website, destination-life.com

It's still free, it's not crippled

[BenHmm]

There's no bait or switch going on here at all. There is still a free version available [sixapart.com], it's not crippled [metafilter.com] in any way:

There is a free version of Movable Type, available on our site, which like all versions of Movable Type consists of the exact same code. There's no crippleware, no nagware. We trust you. We never said this is the last free version of Movable Type.

The only thing this does is a) allow SixApart to eat, and b) allow large corporations to buy MT. I know plenty of organisations that want to use it, but couldn't even look at it until it cost more than nothing. Many procurement processes can't deal with Free.

From backroom hobby to multinational company in three years: Good for them, frankly.

gentler learning curve

[jbellis]

bloxsom [blosxom.com] and pybloxsom [subtlehints.net] (a port of the original Perl) offer an elegant plugin-based architecture with a gentle learning curve if you want to set up your own blog. And because so little is hardcoded into the app itself, you can leverage it to do all sorts of non-traditional sites; I wrote a plugin to enable a webcomic in a few hours.

Re:old version link

[rayde]

strike that... i forgot that download.com just points the the publisher's download link for most files.

Preaching to the choir.

[pb]

For the K5 members out there, there are more details here [kuro5hin.org]--apparently the licensing structure is considered a bit outlandish (for what used to be a free product), perhaps to push their (cheaper) blog webhosting services. But for those outside the "Blogosphere", this will only lead to momentary head-scratching [kuro5hin.org], as to what these crazy kids are talking about now.

Personally, I've been spoiled by /. and K5--I can't stand discussion forums that don't at least have nested comments and a few other basic refinements, and it's even better if they have sane implementations (that don't involve doing O(n) SQL queries recursively to build the list of comments, for example)

Re:Not Bait-n-Switch

[melankolik]

The more people they have using their service, the more it costs to maintain a quality level of service.

Movable Type is a product, not a service. Scalability doesn't come into play here, unless you want to count bandwidth for downloading the source. It doesn't cost them anything extra (again, except bandwidth) to provide something which they have already developed to 10,000 people rather than 100 people.

Another alternative

[Apro+im]

Livejournal.org [livejournal.org] hosts the codebase (GPL'd) used on Livejournal.com [livejournal.com] and other clone sites.

iBlog

[Raven42rac]

I use a Mac and have had no problems with iBlog, from Lifli software. The price fluctuates based on your currency and it's relationship to the Indian Rupee. I paid close to $20 for it. You can install it on up to two seats for that price. It integrates extremely well with .Mac hosted sites too. Read all about it. [lifli.com]You can even hack the css and such with your editor of choice.

Re:RMS talks about free speech........

[sssk]

iirc .. MT3D isn't exactly free software

Good Place To Search For Alternatives

[m_evanchik]

<rant>

http://www.opensourcecms.com/ is a good site to search for alternative weblogs. The nice thing is that they have working demos up that you can access to try out stuff.

The reviews are pretty generic and not much help.

Does anyone know of a good source for reviews on CMS systems?

I also have to question the stats on the link stating moveable type is the most popular weblog. Some prominent blogging software is not counted, such as geeklog, scoop, and (ahem) slashdot.

It's not entirely fair to lambaste moveabletype, they are still offering a non-commercial version of limited capability.

A few weeks ago, when I was evaluating CMS systems, I came across moveable-type, and their lack of a free license is what turned me off. The system that most impressed me was PHPNuke.

My biggest complaint about most of these CMS's are the big holes in documentation.

</rant>

Geeklog

[broller]

I was a Movable Type user, but with my latest ISP change I ditched MT for Geeklog [geeklog.net]. Geeklog is really cool, and nicely integrates with Gallery [menalto.com] which I use for images. Both are Open Source and free, so the decision was easy.

Why your Movable Type blog must die

[heyitsme]

A great article over at the other site:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/2/171117/88 23

Re:Oh really now

[Eezy Bordone]

There is a v3 free version for a single author/single blog, this is crippled from their current free version. My current setup wouldn't be able to use the v3 free version, I have two blogs (one is a sub-blog for book reviews) and host two blogs for friends, so have a total of 3 authors. The free version doesn't officially support this. If the Trott's are *wink-wink-nudge-nudging* that people with my type of setup can still run their free software they shouldn't have written their license to specifically forbid it.

That said, it's obvious to anyone with a pair of brain celss that this pricing structure is to make their Typepad service [typepad.com] more attractive for casual bloggers and non-techies. If you you're willing to get your elbows dirty you can run a blog on your own machine from home with the free version.

Re:RMS talks about free speech........

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. I think everyone really wants free as in speech, but thinks free as in beer is the same thing. Real world objects don't come with complex licenses. We've grown up in a world where both "free"s are the same, so few people really understand how and why software is different. I still don't understand why it's different or at least why we accept it that way.

mod down

[SethJohnson]

This poster makes incorrect assumptions based on total lack of knowledge of the topic.

MoveableType is not a service. It's a piece of software like OpenOffice or Slackware. There is no 'price to pay to give blog space to anyone who wants it.'

Re:It's still free, it's not crippled

[GeorgeH]

When you say "not crippled in any way" you mean that limiting it to 1 author and 3 blogs is an improvement over the current unlimited authors, unlimited blogs restrictions?

I don't have anything against SA trying to make a living, but they priced me out of the market. I run 3 or 4 blogs with around 10 - 15 users, I earn $0.00 on them and am expected to pay $600 to upgrade to a new version that only offers one new feature (comment management).

Like I said on my site, if they had offered me something that would meet my needs for $40 - $50 I would probably pay up. Instead I'm going to stick with 2.6.

hack it!

[IshanCaspian]

Since MT is written entirely in perl and other non-compiled languages, how hard could it possibly be to hack these limitations out of the free version? I'd bet you just have to comment out a few simple checks, and then distribute a patch...via your blog, of course. :)

PHPNuke? -- beware of security

[oneiros27]

I've never personally used it, but I've noticed what seemed to be a large number of security issues found in the product at a time when I was doing a security audit of a system that was using it.

That's not to say that the other CMS systems don't have their own security problems, and I know the couple that I've written probably had their own issues, but I didn't pull a Matt Wright [of FormMail [securityfocus.com] fame] and go distributing crappy software all over the place, either.

Nuke Security [nukesecurity.com] seems to have some information about securing various versions of PHPNuke.

Serendipity

[kris]

Serendipity [s9y.org].

Written in PHP. Uses MySQL. Lean. Mean. Flexible. Extremely nice plugin API. GPL.

Re:Just Switched

[dublin]

I just switched from Movable Type to Text Pattern and I couldn't be happier. It's more CMS like AND easier to use (granted MT was easy to use but Txp feels much smoother). It makes a good separation of content and display and has a few goodies that make this feel natural.

Sounds like you've already got a solution, but others should really consider Blosxom [blosxom.com] - it's truly free [blosxom.com] (not just GPL), and in additoin to being really easy to use, has a bunch of advantages, the bidggest of which is that it understands the concept of using a heirarchical file system to organize posts. Blog entries are simply text files thrown into the appropriate directory. Blosxom can also generate pages dynamically, as most blogs do, or statically, allowing batch updates if you want.

It's written in Perl, and has a large and rapidly growing collection of "plug-ins" that extend its functionality, often in ways that is similar to (or sometimes better than Movable Type's. don't be fooled by its simplicity and small size - Blosxom does nearly everything the larger packages do, and is much, much, easier and more flexible than any other blog program I've run across.

Blosxom really is one of the most impressive programs I've seen in some time. It's worth checking out, and should be considered as an alternative to Movable Type, GreyMatter, Blogger, and the rest more often than it is. Fortunately, a growing number of hosting providers offer Blosxom support, since it's so easy and reliable.

Re:Moveable Type is so cliche

[Anonymous Coward]

Try allinurl:mt-comments [google.com]

Nucleus

[admun]

And no one mentioning another one called Nucleus [nucleuscms.org]? It's GPL as well.8) I have been using it since last Oct, it's very stable, tons on plugins available.

Free Software Blog Alternatives

[BrianWCarver]

b2evo [b2evolution.net] This is what I would recommend people check out first.
BBlog [bblog.com] (requires PHP version 4.1 or greater & MySQL version 3.23 or greater)
Bit 5 Blog [sourceforge.net]
blosxom [blosxom.com] (only need ability to run CGI scripts)
drupal.org [drupal.org] (mySQL or similar required)
LiveJournal.org [livejournal.org]
MyPHPblog/Simplog [myphpblog.org] (seems to require MySQL would have to download to be sure.)
Nucleus [nucleuscms.org] (requires PHP version 4.0.6 or higher and access to a MySQL database version 3.23.38 or higher)
Pivot [pivotlog.net] (only php required)
pLog [plogworld.org] (requires PHP 4.1.x or higher and MySQL 3.1.x or higher)
Scoop [kuro5hin.org] (requires Apache with mod_perl and mySQL)
TikiWiki [tikiwiki.org] (requires PHP 4.1+ and MySQL. Very powerful software.)
WordPress [wordpress.org] (requires PHP version 4.1 or greater and MySQL version 3.23.23 or greater.)

MT 3.0 only usable on single CPU system

[SteamedPenguin]

All you MT apologists need to check the license and double check your hosting setup. If your hosting provider hosts you on a dual CPU system then you break the license to use MT 3.

Besides, it isn't about the money. It is about the community. MT has quite the devoted community around the and Six Apart pissed on a lot of shoes.

Time will tell if it is worth it, but perhaps Six Apart now wants to get into the commercial CMS business dominated by other, just as crappy, outfits providing 'solutions' that include invalid markup, bad Information Architecture, and outrageous fees.

Count me a very happy WordPress [wordpress.org] user; the install is simple, no restrictions on use, and it validates. Most importantly though, no more using stupid

to fake paragraphs.

Re:MovableType != Open Source

[HealYourChurchWebSit]

Ummm ... while MT has been 'open code' ... MovableType has NEVER been Open Source ... says so right in their documentation.

Re:Good example of why open source != free

[13Echo]

This is why I personally use bBlog, which can even use Movable Type stylesheets.

http://www.bblog.com/

blosxom

[hey]

I read a article about blosxom [blosxom.com] in Linux Journal recently. Sounds like a pretty sane Blogging system.

My favorite alternative

[truthsearch]

I've tried a few CMS and read about many. Obviously some are more suitable than others for certain situations. Drupal [drupal.org] has been perfect for running my two [webhop.net] sites [mattschwartz.net]. One has a book and news stories while the other is purely a blog. Drupal's online documentation is very good and the community is very very helpful with users. I highly recommend it.

Re:Blogging sucks anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we wouldn't want people to be free to contribute, would we? Obviously, we need to get permission from assh... I mean, "enlightened" people such as yourself before posting.

90% of everything is crap. Get used to it.

MT converts might look at NucleusCMS

[Anonymous Coward]

The NucleusCMS weblog is probably worth considering as MT users look for options. It allows creation and management of multiples weblog from one install, and from one mySQL database. It's setup is simple, it's configuration of simple.

Some of the weblog software that is being recommended is not, in fact, as equivalent in features to MT as are being advertised.

NucleusCM can be found at http://nucleuscms.org

Re:Good Place To Search For Alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

A merit of http://www.opensourcecms.com/ is the
categorization : it's important to distinguish generic ("portal") CMSs from just weblogs engines,
and other variants. Though -of course- there's no clear cut-off.

I've been making some research recently.
I wanted an open weblog engine (perhaps with some light cms features), in php+mysql (for ubiquitousness), with good internals (decent code and developer docs).

Among the heavyweigth CMSs -escaping from the horrible mess of PhpNuke and sons- I looked at Mambo [mamboserver.com], Xaraya [xaraya.com] and XOOPS [xoops.org] ; all of them are really interesting; but too complex beasts for my needs.

Drupal [drupal.org] (a generic CMS with weblog included) deserves consideration: nice developer docs, carefully organized coding base and very active. But I dont like the concepts it uses ("nodes","taxonomy"), the templating strategy and the focus in general (a CMS too abstract, I feel).

On the other side, on the KISS weblogs engines, Wordpress [wordpress.org] has gained a lot of attention. And I liked it overall.
BUT: the code is rather immature and poorly organized and the docs [wordpress.org] are terrible. Lots of poor software design choices, both at maintainability and performance aspects(yes, guys; I know it's just PHP, but even then... lots of globals, nearly no classes, plugins bad integrated, etc)

I finally choose Nucleus [nucleuscms.org]. It beats WP largely in software design and documentation. A minus: it's weak activity (compared with wp and others): a year from the last stable release (2.0). But it's alive, has a decent forum, 3.0RC released this month; and going in the good direction IMHO.

Re: Not just the cost

[arc.light]

As I stated here [paulbeard.org], I paid $150 for a commercial license for MT 2.6. On December 22nd of 2003, a post to MT's site [movabletype.org] stated:

The next version of Movable Type will be version 3.0, a significant and free upgrade.

And

Movable Type 3.0 will be a free download and upgrade.

It isn't a free upgrade. The promotional price for the cheapest commercial MT license is $199. My earlier purchase of a commercial MT 2.6 license knocks $20 off of that. 6A might think they're going to move us to the presumably more lucrative TypePad hosted service, but many of us are simply going to switch to other software.

- Derek

No more MT

[phpcoder21]

I will no longer be using MT. Sure it was a great product, but for Mena, Ben, and the crew I think this was a bad move. Especially since they did this not even a week after Blogger released their upgrade. Why pay for something that should be free.

BTW, I can convert your MT weblogs to pretty much any other weblog if you are interested!

Re:hack it!

[prostoalex]

That violates their copyright, license and probably a bunch of other stuff. Unless you plan to run the hacked version on 127.0.0.1 all the time, it's not too hard for SixApart to find your site, double-check the customer list and then send you cease-and-desist.

Hack this [wordpress.org], instead.

Re:Just Switched

[big_a]

Blosxom really is one of the most impressive programs I've seen in some time. It's worth checking out, and should be considered as an alternative to Movable Type, GreyMatter, Blogger, and the rest more often than it is. Fortunately, a growing number of hosting providers offer Blosxom support, since it's so easy and reliable.

(...Warning! Shameless plug...)

There are a number a Free and Open Source blogs out there. For the last couple of month, I've been working on Simple PHP Blog. It's written in PHP. It uses flat text files to store data (so you don't need MySQL or anything else.) It's GPL.

Simple PHP Blog [sourceforge.net]

And here are some other great choices:

bBlog [sourceforge.net]
Serendipity [sourceforge.net]
Simplog [sourceforge.net]

Check them out. Maybe you'll find one that fits your needs. And, you can help develop them and give back to the world...

It's not the end of the world

[prostoalex]

I don't see a problem with SixApart deciding to charge for MovableType. Taking away certain features that have been free before seems like a dumb decision, but what do I know, it might work out for them. This is not such a big deal as a lot of people portray it to be.

Basically, anyone running MovableType right now has several options:

• Pay up for commercial 3.0 license if you fall under new categories that require payments.
  
• Stay with 2.6.x, which won't require anything on your part (unless some exploits are discovered)
  
• Switch to alternatives, some with similar licensing [pmachine.com], some GPLed [wordpress.org].

I've developed and ran sites based on MT, pMachine and WordPress, the site in signature is completely WordPress-based and you can read my impressions in WordPress Testimonials [wordpress.org] section. I find pMachine the easiest to use, MT the most powerful and WordPress the most attractive with licensing terms and least likely to pull shit like that.

Hopefully this decision by SixApart will move more bloggers and developers into WordPress, which would accelerate improvement. I mean, realistically, MT is not that much better, and even though Wordpress can be rough if you don't know PHP or not willing to play with the code, they seem to be progressing at good speed right now.

pMachine

[pantycrickets]

Don't forget pMachine! [pmachine.com] It's the best.

Just use Drupal

[halfelven]

Just use Drupal [drupal.org] instead. Free, powerful, extensible... Oh, and the blogger stuff is just a part of it, it's actually a lot more than that (kinda like a software to build Slashdot type of sites).
I installed it on my server and dumbed it down so only the blog is active, and it's working great.

Moving from MT to WP - A guide.

[2fargon]

If you wanna come to wordpress, you might find this moving guide [carthik.net] handy with all the details about what needs to be done before, during and after the move.

Re:I got hit with it too

[Phillup]

The license allows for modification of the code for personal use.

Not for distribution.

I believe that is sufficient for the case of switching vendors. (Which was my point... that switching from MT is easy because of your access to the code and data.)

Re:hack it!

[hyperizer]

Since MT is written entirely in perl and other non-compiled languages, how hard could it possibly be to hack these limitations out of the free version?

There are no limitations coded in. The license works on the honor system.

Re:Good example of why open source != free

[StormReaver]

Based on my perusal of the site, this is not Open Source software and has nothing to do with the differences between Open Source and Free software (which are mostly marketing/presentation, by the way).

Most Open Source software is released under the GPL and is also Free software (again, the biggest difference is how the two are presented to PHBs).

This is, though, a good and common example of how proprietary software will usually come back to bite you when you least expect it.

Re: Not just the cost

[Scalli0n]

It is free, look on the site:
Not willing to pay for Movable Type yet? This fully-functional version of the application is available free of charge. Important limitations of this license include:

* No support from Six Apart
* No access to paid installation service
* No access to fee-based services
* No promotion of your weblogs through the Recently Updated list
* No commercial usage
* No more than one author and three weblogs

Download Movable Type Free.

phpBB Blog

[Anthony Boyd]

I'll probably be modded down for plugging my own work, but I wrote a very simple blogging tool that uses phpBB to manage blog entries and replies. It's phpBB Blog [outshine.com], and it's available under the new BSD license (no advertising clause). So it's free beer and free speech. I'll have a new version release in early June. Maybe some of the MT defectors here could consider it (although really, it's quite simple, probably not useful to many MT fans).

Can't agree more! Drupal is the best...

[kbahey]

Can't agree more!

Of all the free CMS that I recently saw, Drupal is the best of the crop for sure.

It is not only a blog, forums, publishing system, but even have modules for things like syndication, weather, e-commerce and more.

You can see it as a product, or as a framework that you can customize to your own liking.

It runs on Windows or UNIX, either Apache or IIS, and MySQL, Postgresql, or even MS SQL.

Writing a module is not a hard task.

Unless you are anti-PHP or a Perl bigot or something, give Drupal a try.

You will not regret it.

Re:Free Software Blog Alternatives

[madmaxx]

Also missed out on textpattern [textpattern.com]. It's supposidly BSD-licensed, and fairly similar to MT.

Six Apart responds

[fooljay]

Today, Six Apart responded [sixapart.com] to the comments, making some changes based on feedback and clarified the things that they didn't communicate well.

I've written my feelings already: pre- [jayallen.org] and post-clarification [jayallen.org]