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Sun Microsystems GNU is Not Unix Java Programming

Sun to GPL Project Looking Glass 433

Posted by CowboyNeal from the java-eye-candy dept.
elleomea writes "According to The Register, Sun is releasing Project Looking Glass, their new GNU/Linux based 3D window managing system, under the GPL during their JavaOne conference (beginning today)." The screenshots of Looking Glass make it out to be very pretty. I'm not sure if I have the spare CPU cycles to power such an environment, but it's sure nice to drool over.
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Sun to GPL Project Looking Glass More

Sun to GPL Project Looking Glass

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  • Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @12:59PM (#9551901) Journal
    Looks pretty, but wont computers at this level be more concerned with process cycles than spending time on a fancy GUI?

    Here's hoping it's as functional as it is good looking, or it is all for naught.

    • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:13PM (#9552081) Homepage Journal
      Looks pretty, but wont computers at this level be more concerned with process cycles than spending time on a fancy GUI?

      I don't know why everyone thinks this will be a problem. All of the 3D work will be pushed down to the 3D card. (This is what Mac OS X does to obtain its "Genie" and other effects.) As long as you have a GeForce2 or better, you should be fine.

      On the subject of GPL, I'm not sure I understand why Sun would Open Source this. On the consumer market, it really is a deal-making product for them. The only thing I can see is that they don't have the resources to develop this fast enough and want to leverage the Open Source community. Given that this approach has worked for OpenOffice and Netbeans, it may not be such a bad move by Sun.

      • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by molarmass192 ( 608071 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:54PM (#9552499) Homepage Journal
        My guess is that they want widespread adoption. By going the GPL route, they make it palletable for all the distros. Also, I don't think it ranks in the "deal-making" category. It's certainly a determinant, PHBs love that eye candy, but I'd be shocked to see it on any RFIs that they come across.

        Personally, I use all my screen real estate for my current app. I might be in a minority but how many people don't maximize the application that they're working in? Also, I avoid my mouse as much as possible and LG looks pretty mouse intensive. So it's not a CPU cycle thing that would keep me from using it as my primary WM, it's more of an ergonomics problem. However, I probably would run it when doing a presentation to wow customers and coworkers!

        • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Monday June 28, 2004 @02:15PM (#9552743) Homepage Journal
          I might be in a minority but how many people don't maximize the application that they're working in?

          It has an interface much like Mac OS X (except a little more 3Dish). Under OS X, you get used to not maximizing windows. Maximizing does unpredictable things, or just gets in the way when it doesn't.

          the application that they're working in? Also, I avoid my mouse as much as possible and LG looks pretty mouse intensive.

          That's very difficult to determine without trying it. OS X is pretty mouse intensive, but has hotkeys for most stuff. Granted, many of the OS X ones are rather masochistic combinations of "Apple" and "Option" keys, but it doesn't have to be that way.

        • Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Informative)

          by maximilln ( 654768 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @04:00PM (#9553911) Homepage Journal
          Personally, I use all my screen real estate for my current app. I might be in a minority but how many people don't maximize the application that they're working in?

          My operating mode is quite the opposite. I multitask my workload and find myself switching windows 2-3 times/minute when I'm compiling multiple packages, working on new bash scripts, holding IM conferences, and writing a report. You could say that I need to lay off the caffeine but, oddly, I don't drink much coffee. A 3D desktop like this would be a blessing for me. No longer do I need to worry about my screen becoming cluttered with windows constantly reshuffling their order. I can send them back slightly to make them smaller or just turn them sideways.

          Unfortunately my two systems probably don't have the horsepower for something like Looking Glass. I have a K6-3/400 w/ a Radeon 7500 and a PII/400 w/ a Viper 550.

          I've recently learned about Expocity [pycage.de]. Expocity is a python patch for metacity.

          Screenshot here [c-monkey.net] and here [homeip.net] and here [pycage.de].

          Hopefully it will be a little less resource hungry for what I want to do.

      • Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by OYAHHH ( 322809 )
        > On the subject of GPL, I'm not sure I understand why Sun would Open Source this

        My guess is that it all ties together with the open-sourcing of the Java 3D libraries in the last couple of weeks.

        From what I've heard the Looking Glass 3D code is based upon the Java 3D libraries.

        Thus, it's sort of a cool project to release along-side the J3D code.

        > The only thing I can see is that they don't have the resources to develop this fast enough and want to leverage the Open Source community

        Probably true t

    • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MoonFog ( 586818 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:14PM (#9552094)
      Everything doesn't have to be functional. I have a P4 computer running at 3.25 ghz with a lot of RAM and even though I'm a developer and do alot of programming, my CPU rarely goes much above 1 - 2%. I would love to have something like this. I admit, the increase in functionality probably won't be that great at the moment, but it's eye-candy and can perhaps incorporate some cool features.
      From the demo it also appears that it can be turned of (He clicks a leaf to start it, so I assume it can go the other way), so it might be just shutting off PLG when you're doing some heavy compiling, playing games or in any other way need some more CPU cycles.

    • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Erik Hensema ( 12898 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:24PM (#9552190) Homepage

      Very few applications are purely CPU based. Most applications wait for the user to decide what he/she wants to do.

      The speed of interactive applications is mainly limited by the user operating it. So, the application should aid the user in the process of making descisions.

      Part of this aid is making the application less suprising. Should a sidebar pop up at the left side of a window as quickly as possible, or should it 'slide' in in a few tens of a second? The slide does grab the user's attention, which could lead to an overall speedup in the work actually done by the user.

      This Sun desktop may also aid the user. The user is working more efficiently at the expense of CPU cycles. But hey, isn't that exacly what computing is about?

  • No! (Score:5, Funny)

    by turgid ( 580780 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @12:59PM (#9551903) Journal
    No! But Sun is evil! Sun is in league with M$ and SCO to bring about a 1000 year reign in blood! Slashbot brain can't take any more.... timfoil helmet has ruptured... rotary spacewaves have penetrated.....Arrrggghhhh!!!!

    Game over. Insert Coin to Play.

    • Re:No! (Score:3, Funny)

      by kfg ( 145172 )
      Sun is evil!

      That is correct, and the fact that they are releasing a 3D desktop that lets you open your documents at unreadable angles and allows unethical vendors to print EULAs on the back of things only proves it even more.

      KFG

  • Pretty... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by detritus` ( 32392 ) * <awitzke AT wesayso DOT org> on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:00PM (#9551907) Homepage Journal
    Yes, it is very nice looking, but how does it improve my interactions with the computer? The whole tilted window thing looks good but i dont think it'll be a huge bonus when it comes time to actually use it... I'd rather use those CPU cycles for something worthwhile i think...

    • Like What? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by siskbc ( 598067 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:12PM (#9552067) Homepage
      I'd rather use those CPU cycles for something worthwhile i think...

      First, people say this every damned time an improvement is made to a GUI. If anybody listened, we'd all still be using CLI exclusively. Second, most people using their 3 GHz machine for office work most certainly DO have the spare cycles.

      Additionally, it looks like the improvements will really make a usability difference in how we interact with the UI. Keeping notes on an application window, tilting the windows to keep most of the perceptual information (btw, using foreshortening to effectively compress windows is a great idea), making multiple desktops more perceptual, etc are all good ideas that will help people interact more intelligently with their programs.

      I think this is a great start, and with some tightening and more well-implemented ideas, I can't wait to see this in a mainstream OS.

      • Re:Like What? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by roman_mir ( 125474 )
        Maybe some GUI improvements are good but this looks useless to me (my opinion of-course.) Note that the tilted windows have application names on their edges, but unless you have a real 3D screen this is a waste, I at-least, won't be able to use these tilted windows in a normal way. I think (again my opinion) that people will use these '3D' windows without thinking, simply to hide the fact that they still do not have a good understanding of what a good GUI is. You do not need 3D GUI to have a well designe

      • Re:Like What? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Sven Tuerpe ( 265795 )

        Additionally, it looks like the improvements will really make a usability difference in how we interact with the UI. Keeping notes on an application window, tilting the windows to keep most of the perceptual information (btw, using foreshortening to effectively compress windows is a great idea), making multiple desktops more perceptual, etc are all good ideas that will help people interact more intelligently with their programs.

        Unfortunately, none of these good ideas justifies 3D. Consider this layered [useit.com]

    • Re:Pretty... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Shoeler ( 180797 )
      Exactly. Sun has been talking about a 3-D environment for years now. I don't recall what it was called before, but needless to say on their overpriced 3-D cards in the Ultra creator 3-D, etc it worked terribly. Now gaming has upped the ante with 3-D hardware rendering in PCs and they want to capitolize on it to make the environment prettier.

      I personally would rather see a much better, more integrated environment with time spent on really tackling the M$ near-monopoly's "features" in the current Java Des

    • Re:Pretty... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Paulrothrock ( 685079 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:17PM (#9552123) Homepage Journal
      Apple already solved your problem with Expose. (Pronounced Ex-po-zay). Move the mouse to a corner of the screen or push a function button and all the windows slide into view, which is run by the GPU. click on one and that window moves to the front. And you can do it with windows inside applications by moving to another corner or pushing a different key. Or you could move all windows off of the screen to get at the desktop.

      It's revolutionized how I use my Mac. I don't think this will help very much because you have to look closely at the tilted windows instead of just seeing smaller versions of the windows you've seen before.

    • Re:Pretty... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Flammon ( 4726 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:20PM (#9552153) Journal
      Technology is supposed to be fun too. I think that most people who read this site got into technology because they found it interesting and fun. Looking Glass is a technology with a high fun factor and I welcome it. I can't wait to see what kind of cool stuff will come out of it when it is GPLd.

    • Re:Pretty... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by akorvemaker ( 617072 )
      But different people work in different ways. For people who are more visual-oriented, such an environment could be very helpful. It would enable them to move things around on their computer screen similar to the way they might move different items around on their desks. Items that are not needed right away could be set aside, much as a book is placed on a bookshelf. It's still easily available, and is easily seen as such, but it is not longer in the way. Items that are "completed" could be closed as usual,

    • Re:Pretty... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tabdelgawad ( 590061 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:20PM (#9552157)
      The problem is not the environment, but the primary human interface to the environment, which is the mouse. Having virtual 3D on a computer is completely intuitive to a human being; it's how we organize everything in real life. But mice were born in a 2D environment and that's what they're good at.

      Until they invent and standardize a 3D 'gesturing' interface (think Tom Cruise in Minority Report, for example), the 3D desktop will remain without much practical value.

      • Re:Pretty... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Lordrashmi ( 167121 )
        I for one don't want a 3D gesturing interface, atleast not for the majority of my work. Using Minority report as an example, Tom was using his entire up body to do his work, as opposed to the minimal effor I am exerting right now using the KB and mouse. While it might make geeks workout more, after a full day (8+ hrs) it would be a killer.
  • How having multiple Mozilla windows open and at 90 degrees horizontal is somehow more efficient than having multiple tabs open?!? I mean I really don't see how this is supposed to improve efficiency at all.
    • They aren't quite rotated 90 degrees.

      I think the slight preview is kinda neat. It only takes a small amount of screen real estate, but looks like the window.
      This should make it easier for someone to remember what these half minimized windows are.

      Myself I'll stick to shading windows, but I think this could be useful.

    • Re:Can someone please tell me (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:11PM (#9552056) Journal
      From a pure UI point of view, it is better than multiple desktops and multiple tabs, since they are both examples of modes (which are bad). This is conditional, however, on it being easy for the user to control. If you had a 3D haptic input device, then I would say it is a superior model for human interaction. With a mouse, I remain to be convinced.
    • This way, the Mozilla people don't have to program tabs into their program. Apply this to any program you'd wish use tabs, and now you've got a better picture of how useful this becomes.

  • Looking Glass (Score:5, Funny)

    by Aexia ( 517457 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:00PM (#9551919)
    Is this some sort of high-concept System Shock 3?

    Where's SHODAN? Where are my cybernetic zombies?

    Looks like they dumbed down the interface so they could an X-Box port as well.

    Shame shame.

  • Yay! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thenextpresident ( 559469 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:00PM (#9551920) Homepage Journal
    I guess my subject pretty much expresses my enthusiasm. It's nice to see this coming from Sun. Looking Glass looked really cool, but I was always concerned that they wouldn't open it. Now with this news, it should allow desktop developers to try new things.

    Pretty cool stuff.

  • Jurassic technology (Score:5, Funny)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) * on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:01PM (#9551928) Homepage
    "This is a UNIX system! I know this... [monash.edu.au]"

  • Reasons for non-gamers to upgrade their GPU's (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) * on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:01PM (#9551940) Journal
    I mean, come on, everyone *want's* the latest and greatest, it's just those of us who can't justify it that don't actually go out and buy them :-)

    Personally I've stuck with a Matrox G450 for what seems like the longest time simply because it was the one of the first (and the best) at dual monitor display, and I *like* that - 3200x1600 displays are really nice when you've lots of editor windows open :-)

    Ah well, if it does take off, guess I'll be getting an nVidea or ATI card, which means a PCI-X motherboard, might as well throw in an Athlon-64 (maybe FX), and I'll want PC3200 RAM. Damn that's an expensive desktop :-(

    Simon
    • Make sure you get a PCIe board, for PCI-Express. PCI-X is just 64-bit PCI, good for servers, not really for desktops.

    • Don't need to.... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @03:28PM (#9553580) Homepage

      Looking Glass runs on Java 3D (also open sourced today) which basically goes straight to the wire on Linux, Windows and Solaris. This may come as a suprise to folks out here in Slashdot land, but actually Java is pretty damned fast when implemented well.

      Looking Glass will run on a decent (1.8 Ghz+) laptop with a decent laptop graphics card.

      Looks fantastic, its also great to use and the funniest bit is all of the Windows and Mac people looking at a GUI which looks cooler than the best efforts of MS and Apple.

      So you don't need to upgrade to a top of the line machine with a top of the line GPU. You need a decent machine with a decent card.

      Java... its faster than you think.

  • Spare cpu cycles (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gmuslera ( 3436 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:02PM (#9551949) Homepage Journal
    .. maybe is not good at all to use it on a server, but for i.e. a gaming desktop i bet most current games will take a lot more cpu cycles that this environment.

    And think in the nice animations and graphic effect of MacOSX, if they are happy with it, maybe will not be so bad under Linux.

    • Re:Spare cpu cycles (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:20PM (#9552150) Journal
      And think in the nice animations and graphic effect of MacOSX, if they are happy with it, maybe will not be so bad under Linux.

      Be careful with this line of thought. Every piece of eye candy on OS X has a real purpose (well, some are gratuitous, but most aren't). The genie effect when minimising allows the user to see exactly where a window is minimised to. The shadows let you see at a glance at any edge of a window whether it is active (the shadow of the active window is deeper). The dock magnification allows the dock to take up small amounts of screen space when not in use. Expose makes such a huge difference to productivity that I feel crippled when I have to use a system that doesn't have it.

      It is very easy to copy the eye candy without improving the usability of the desktop.

      • I'm not saying that animations and graphic effects are not useful, if they are well used, make a system far better from the usability side. The "eye candy" of Looking Glass looked also very useful as far i remember the presentation video.

        The point was simply that the looking heavy cpu use animations in MacOSX didn't raised a lot of complains about "spare cpu cycles", so could not be a big problem in this one.

  • Stop the Madness!!! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:03PM (#9551960) Homepage
    Instead of wasting time of super cool, awesome 3D spinning, rotating and flipping translucent windows with shadows, how about establishing some GUI standards for Linux to make it easier to use for the grandmas and grandpas of the world. No amount of Linux screen real estate bling bling is going to make it a better OS for the common user.
    • There are plenty of standards for GUI's under linux. Standards aren't the problem. Too many standards are the problem. That is the joy and the curse of open source. You can't force people to do it your way, even when it's for the betterment of all mankind.

  • Neat Gimmic, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Serapth ( 643581 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:07PM (#9552010)
    Just from looking at the screenshots, I see zero reasons why this would be better then a traditional 2d desktop. In alot of ways, its inferior to a normal desktop, not to mention the wasted cycles spent rendering the damned thing.

    Really, to take advantage of 3d desktops, we either need full immersive 3d ( alah, the 3d headsets, or perhaps holographic displays ), or the need to take a different perspective on computing then todays window'd concept. Really, what is the value of rotating a windowed view ... does it really help you know what your document is, be seeing some strangely distorted side view of it? Perhaps things like 3d navigation could be handy... the ability to not only scroll up and down, but in and out... or to link relevant data not only in a tree based structure ( like the start menu ), but also group information based on relationships to other information, with perspective aswell.

    But as it stands, just texturing an existing window onto a 3d billboard... really, whats the point? It will be interesting to see how microsoft exploits the 3rd dimension, given that avalon requires a 3d gpu to run. Hopefully, they do it better then SUN does. If I recall, there was an alternate windows manager called the Cube, that worked similar to this... what ever happenned to it?

    • Re:Neat Gimmic, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by afidel ( 530433 )
      If you want to do something like that then the best solution I can think of would be a 3D implementation of the hyper tree like this example [inxight.com] from inxight. THAT would actually change the way that we interact with the system, as you point out looking glass is just a fancy fake 3D window dressing on the same old concepts.
    • Wasted cycles, who cares? But, more importantly, these wasted cycles also take _my time_ for them to render. I find window management more of a chore than necessary already, now I'm supposed to be entertained or something while things flip around in a 2d representation of 3d space?

      Why can't companies like Sun focus on things that are important to computing that are real problems. What problem is this 3d stuff solving?

      Here is a small list of things people:

      - Uniform cut and paste and drag and drop in a

  • more then a GUI (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:10PM (#9552041)
    Which everybody seems to forget its more then a GUI, but a framework to develop 3D aplications as well.
    So yes, it's a waste of cycles as a just another desktop, but plenty apps can benefit from a common 3D interface.
    That is what is interesting about looking glass.

  • Transparent windows... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mikael ( 484 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:11PM (#9552049)
    The use of transparent windows seems to be standard now, but would it be possible to create an OpenGL context which allowed the application to specify a transparent background color, which allow the current desktop to be seen underneath?Combine this with the "no window frames" option of X-windows, and some really cool visualisations could be written.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:11PM (#9552052)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • ...but really, I dont see how it improves usability at all.

      The video just confirmed my suspicions.

      I mean really, rotating your windows upside down does anything for usability?

      How does sticking notes to the back of windows help usability at all, when you can't see them without flipping each window around? How is this better than normal sticky/postitnotes applications?

      There's still as much clutter as normal desktops -- actually more, the minimized windows take up more screen real estate than traditional m
      • I mean really, rotating your windows upside down does anything for usability?

        How does sticking notes to the back of windows help usability at all, when you can't see them without flipping each window around? How is this better than normal sticky/postitnotes applications?

        I'm sure people said the same thing for color displays way back when. Color really doesn't do anything for usability. If you have to differentiate things with color then your interface is broken.

        Or, perhaps as with color, people will e
  • What are PC's up to currently? ~4Ghz? Has the low RAM prices been off-putting since they cracked down on the RAM price gouging years and years ago? Seriously, what the hell are you using all your CPU cycles for then, that you can't spare any?

    Running a render farm? Calculating protein in DNA strands? If you are, you are already most likely running a streamlined optomized setup, so you wouldn't even consider this....but for the average schmuck....?

  • 3D is Dead, Long Live SVG (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tarantolato ( 760537 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:14PM (#9552085) Journal
    Looking Glass screenshots are fun to drool over and all I guess, but IMHO the way forward is not adding further complexity to the binary-graphics desktop.

    Rather, it's SVG. XML-based vector graphics allow developers to parse and manipulate graphics the way you would a web page or a config file. They also make remoting applications even easier than with a binary protocol like X. What does this mean for end users? Not a whole terrible lot on the surface. But it does make it easier for developers to apply consistent look and feel with widely-known text munging tools and also make rich networked applications; so in the end there's a significant but non-apparent user benefit.

    Of course the nature of SVG is such that although it looks extremely crisp and neat, it's basically 2D. I think the tradeoff is worth it.

    If you're going to go for the extra overhead anyways, SVG is a much bigger win than 2D any day.
    • Among a few other minor infelicities:

      SVG is a much bigger win than 2D any day.

      should read "...than 3D..."

  • useability question (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jd142 ( 129673 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:15PM (#9552100) Homepage
    So just how hard is it to manipulate a 3D environment on a 2D display with a 2D input device? I've had minor problems rotating objects in apps like Poser. I can only imagine how difficult some of this could be for people with impaired movement.

    Not having had the opportunity to actually try this interface, I was wondering if it take a lot of practice to get good at rotating windows and moving the object around the environment.

    How does the os know that I want to move an object up along the y axis instead of "back" along the z axis?
  • Looking Glass [fas.org] was a pretty serious project, before the Air Force passed it on to the Navy. I hope Sun doesn't screw it up...

  • People said "why would you need tabbed browsing of the web?" and are now saying "why would you need 3D windows?"

    Both are very useful for displaying more information. WIth Looking Glass, you see more than a tab: you get to see what's happening in the windows.

    Try it with dashboard reporting screens, shared whiteboards, even video streams. You'll be impressed.

  • You can find a similar one named Task Gallery [microsoft.com] that MS Research has been working on

    They atleast have done a good job saying
    NOTE: This web site is only meant to support the video. Watching the video is the best way to get a feel for this novel user-interface.
    You can't do justice to something in 3d with screenshots.
    Sun seems to have lost the point and placed just screenshots in their site ( you can find the links for the videos a few posts above this though )

    Inspite of all the efforts going into such th

  • missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chronos2266 ( 514349 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:30PM (#9552247)
    Reading through the posts I see numerous people complaining about how this is pointless and a waste of cpu cycles and has no benefits over a traditional 2D desktop.

    You are failing to realize that by open sourcing this project, sun can harness the creativity of the open source community to improve this project and make it into something you would actually want to use on a daily basis instead of just a gimmick to show off to your friends.

    This is a step in the right direction and I am excited that they are releasing this.
  • Commenting on the desktop background image This is a still photo of the Stanford University campus. Just imagine what is possible if it were live video.

    Heck yeah! Depending on how many people have this "dynamic desktop" one could break the world record for most people mooned at once! Also what if you saw someone getting mugged on your desktop and calling 911? "Well, I am not sure exactly where the mugging is happening, but I can see it on my computer desktop...."

  • I don't know what to make of all the hype surrounding this 3D desktop. Others have gone before it and died, e.g. the 3dwm project.

    Rotating (flat) windows mainly just shrinks them, which I think is a good idea, but we don't need 3D for that. Just put all the shrunk windows at the edge of the screen, and let the user bring them forward by clicking (incidentally, this closesly resembles how the OS X window manager works).

    As for their example of the CDs, yeah, nice, but can it beat a straight, sorted list? Wi
  • I bought a P-I 200Mhz (without MMX) Sony "90" desktop. It had an add-on desktop called "Viao" I think - layed on top of Win95. It had "tilt-away" windows similar to what I'm conceptulizing this GUI to have.

    Similarities? Did Sun take someone elses idea and improve it?
  • Not a flame, but is there anything useful you can actually do with it? Or is it only meant to be eye candy?

  • Useless for now, because... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @01:59PM (#9552557) Homepage Journal
    It's great that Sun has GPL'ed this desktop, but it has absolutely zero chance of mainstream Linux adoption. Why? Because it requires Java to run, and the Java environment itself is not open source. Remember the whole KDE debacle about Qt not being free enough? Multiply that by a few million times and you'll see why Looking Glass won't make it past "gee, that's cool" in the Linux world.

    • Re:Useless for now, because... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @06:29PM (#9555470) Homepage
      It's great that Sun has GPL'ed this desktop, but it has absolutely zero chance of mainstream Linux adoption. Why? Because it requires Java to run, and the Java environment itself is not open source. Remember the whole KDE debacle about Qt not being free enough? Multiply that by a few million times and you'll see why Looking Glass won't make it past "gee, that's cool" in the Linux world.

      Ok, 2 points to consider.

      When KDE was released it was fully GPL but the underlying widget set QT was not "free as in RMS". Did this hinder KDE becoming mainstream? Hell no! Even before the QT was GPLd, KDE was very popular and mainstream (at least in Linux circles). After some time, Trolltech decided to release QT under the GPL and even RMS was happy. I foresee similar futures for Looking Glass and Sun's J2SE.

      Second point, Java *from Sun* is not "free as in RMS". It is "free as in beer". It is also "free as in specification". The specification explicitly allows *anybody* to reimplement Java and even get the Java nametag (as long as you pass the testing) and even grants you ROYALTY-FREE USAGE of any Sun patents used in Java. There are several "free as in RMS" implementations of Java. I have no doubt they are not as good as Sun's, but how long will it take somebody to hack something like GCJ just enough to run Looking Glass? I'll wager less than a week. Especially considering that Java3D is now open source... anybody spotting the pattern yet?

      Sun's obviously committed to Open Source. They have made the same realisation that IBM did; there is no future in proprietary software for desktops. Release it all for "free as in RMS", collaborate with your competitors *and* your customers, and make your profits from professional services and hardware. That's my opinion, anyway.

  • Come on, nobody's using their imagination (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DeadVulcan ( 182139 ) <dead,vulcan&pobox,com> on Monday June 28, 2004 @02:13PM (#9552728)

    I almost joined the ranks of people criticizing this project as a waste of time. Putting 2-D windows into a 3-D environment doesn't give you any advantages, especially if you just project it back onto a 2-D viewing screen.

    But let's have some imagination. The idea is obviously to eventually make this environment immersive. This would allow you to place windows all around yourself. And instead of separate virtual (2-D) desktops, you would have separate virtual "rooms." Our current input device (mouse) is also 2-D, and we would need to move to something more practical in a 3-D environment.

    Of course, it goes further. Windows are currently 2-D because the viewing screen is 2-D. If you have a 3-D viewing system, then your windows can be 3-D, too. Applications don't have to fit into rectangles; they could be cones, spheres, or dodecahedrons. They could even be irregularly shaped and have qualities like malleability and ductability.

    Also, our widget sets are limited by the fact they're displayed on 2-D screens now. What kind of control widgets could we create when things can be moved in three dimensions? It opens up lots of possibilities.

    It's just unfortunate that the screenshots they are showing don't actually take advantage of the fact that there are three dimensions. But this is only because application writers haven't caught up to the new "windowing system." It's not because the idea doesn't have merit.

  • You don't need CPU cycles... (Score:4, Informative)

    by illumin8 ( 148082 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @02:35PM (#9552955) Journal
    I'm not sure if I have the spare CPU cycles to power such an environment, but it's sure nice to drool over.

    The whole point of looking glass is that the 3d environment rendering is offloaded onto the GPU, leaving your CPU to handle tasks that it was originally designed for, rather than drawing all the windows and other stuff it was not designed for.

  • My Gosh, that looks trashy! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Monday June 28, 2004 @03:34PM (#9553656)
    Why does everything from Sun look so Über-ugly? Take Java for instance. Did you see the JMF demos? The whole setup was so dull. No wonder nobody noticed it. Same with the Java Desktop which is even crappier than some really haphazard themes I've seen on freshmeat.
    And now this. This looky extremely crappy by even the most modest standards in design and aestetics.
    It also work the other way, of course: How come everything from Macromedia [macromedia.com] looks cool, but has the operatability of some cheapo shareware app?
    Weird.

  • Finally, a virtual desktop like my physical one (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tstoneman ( 589372 ) on Monday June 28, 2004 @04:06PM (#9553969)
    I don't know about you guys, but my desk at work is a mess, with papers, books, cds, and stuff all over the place.

    Based on some of the screenshots, it looks like I can finally emulate my own physical desktop with my virtual desktop... and with it all the benefits of "security through obscurity". For example, I leave my paycheck stubs all over my desk but I'll be damned if someone would bother to put the effort to try to find it!!

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