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Java Programming Sun Microsystems Technology

Sun's "Java Powered" Campaign 286

Posted by Hemos from the pushing-whatevery-they-can dept.
scapermoya writes "eWeek is reporting that Sun has started blitzing consumers , trying to increase public awareness about Java, with everything from accosting pedestrians to "Java Powered" logos begining to appear on some devices that are J2ME (Java 2 Media Edition) compatable. Tiny cup logos will now be pasted on everything from cell phones to microwaves." But not on Space Invaders clones.
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Sun's "Java Powered" Campaign More

Sun's "Java Powered" Campaign

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  • I claim prior art (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:04AM (#9737436)
    Sun's a little slow, I've had one of these stickers on my coffee machine for ages.

    • Re:I claim prior art (Score:2, Informative)

      by arivanov ( 12034 )
      Yeah, it is a good sticker for the office coffee machine:

      Coffee! Do stupid things faster! And with more energy!

    • Media Edition (Score:3, Informative)

      by essreenim ( 647659 )
      some devices that are J2ME (Java 2 Media Edition) compatable.

      Isn't it Java_2_Micro_Edition. Im sure it is..


      And what of it? They are Java powered. They have every right to. Just as long as there isn't a really annoying noise like Intel's everytime a Dell add . etc comes on.


  • Blitz? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by teiresias ( 101481 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:04AM (#9737437)
    Why would you blitz the general public? I don't think your average Mom walking down the street wants Java shoved at her unless it's in a cup and warm.

    • Yes, it's very much neccesary (Score:5, Interesting)

      by lokedhs ( 672255 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:10AM (#9737507)
      Du you thing the average mom cares about the fact that her windows machine has "Pentium inside"?

      It's called brand awareness. The point here is to make sure that people (and in the case of mobile phones, young people) equate "Java" with "cool games" and an "i need it" attitude. In the end this will (hopefully) mean that in order to be able to sell a phone, you need to support Java. In turn, this means that MS will have a that much harder time trying to get everyone to use the mobile version of .NET.

      In fact, here in europe we see this happening already. Every new phone that comes out has J2ME support, and when a phone doesn't have it is reviewed, it's always mentioned as a big minus point.

      I suppose (hope) we'll see the same thing happen in the US.

      By the way, didn't the latest MS "smartphones" have J2ME support these days?

      • Re:Yes, it's very much neccesary (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Milo77 ( 534025 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:13AM (#9738077)
        I remember reading in Andy Grove's book (something like Only the Paranoid Survive), that they thought their "Intel Inside" campaign was simply going to bias the customers to only want "Intel Inside" and be weary if they bought a computer that didn't have intel inside. Well, this did occur to some extent, but it came with a little surprise - when someone's computer didn't work, they called Intel instead of the PC manufacturer (bypass the pesky middleman, I guess). At the time, Intel didn't have the infrastructure to handle this since they were used to simply dealing with PC manufactueres and certainly not your average consumer. I wonder if Sun is ready to have my grandma call them up when her microwave stops functioning?

  • Consumers? (Score:3, Informative)

    by JohnFromCanada ( 789692 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:06AM (#9737455)
    Consumers don't care what language there application is written in as long as it does what is requested. I am a Java programmer and Sun seriously has to start doing something relevant with the language itself as it is loosing developers at an extremely fast pace. Java powered stickers will do no good when they have no developers left.

    • Re:Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tcopeland ( 32225 ) * <tom@th[ ]sleecopeland.com ['oma' in gap]> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:11AM (#9737515) Homepage
      > it is loosing developers at
      > an extremely fast pace

      Is it? Hm. To which languages? C#?

      I'm doing lots of Ruby [ruby-lang.org] programming lately, but I'm still doing quite a bit of Java, too....

      • Re:Consumers? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by JohnFromCanada ( 789692 )
        Extremely fast pace may be a slight overstatement however I would say there are many languages that are taking developers away from Java not just C#. An example of this is how all the students at the local Universities are petitioning to have Java removed as the core programming language as they are complaining that is just not applicable enough compared to other languages such as C#. By no means am I saying these concerns are legitimate but Java is definitely being hit hard lately. Furthermore, I do a lot

        • Re:Consumers? (Score:3, Informative)

          by rythos ( 693869 )
          I can account for the other side of Canada. In Vancouver the University of British Columbia just finished re-working all of their first and second year courses to be run with Java instead of C++ and Scheme. (yeah Scheme!)

        • Re:Consumers? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by JavaLord ( 680960 )
          I would say there are many languages that are taking developers away from Java not just C#. An example of this is how all the students at the local Universities are petitioning to have Java removed as the core programming language as they are complaining that is just not applicable enough compared to other languages such as C#.

          I still see more Java Development jobs than any others here in the Northeast/tri-state area in the USA.

          I don't see why any school would want to drop Java as a core programming
          • I couldn't see a first year comp sci student writing an internet chat room in C++, where as it's easy in Java.

            Easy, sure, because the heavy lifting is hidden away. Not very instructional for that comp sci student.

            Java(tm) may have its place in CS programs; some vocational training is handy for getting that first job. But, as a language, it's a bit half-assed for learning about computer science.

        • WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:30AM (#9738254)
          "not applicable"? C#?

          If you're moving from Java to C# then you've either:

          1) Thrown out your Big Iron and spent an equivilent amount on a Windows cluster

          2) Hired a bunch of people without checking if they knew the language your system is built on

          3) Got paid off by Microsoft (ie: Uni. of Waterloo)

          4) Decided you wanted something "easy" instead of something "stable"

          C# is not applicable to jack shit compared to Java right now. Most core logic is done using J2EE. If it sucks, then you hired the wrong coders. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Java runs on some much bigger iron than C#.

          These people must be developing piddly desktop apps that backend to something pseudo-enterprise. Works great in the lab... try scaling it out to 10,000 workers now. A company I worked for tried that. Told the poor bastards they contracted for that they'd have to buy twice the number of servers and upgrade to 2K Datacenter.

          C# is the language of people who don't know how to fucking program. They like it because it works like VB for the GUI and alows them to do the stupid OO stuff they learned in intro to data structures. They are the ones who catch exceptions with blank handlers in Java at work. They are the ones who use a 3 meg C# app to do the work of a 30 line perl script.

          Not that you can do anything about it, but I would guess that the reason why Java is having problems in your area is because it's becoming more populated with Microsoft nitwit apologists.

          (And I would blame the University of Waterloo for selling out and thinking they're smarter than the rest of the world, allowing all the Canadians to think "If it's good enough for our best CS school, it's good enough for us!")

          • Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by hackrobat ( 467625 )

            They are the ones who catch exceptions with blank handlers in Java at work.

            You know what, that's why Anders Hejlsberg didn't add checked exceptions to C#--because half the programmers don't handle them and instead just ignore them, because Java won't let you be otherwise. In C#, you ignore all exceptions and they propogate up (without having to declare them in the method signature). That's an improvement over Java, sorry.

            And what are you talking about, C# or .NET? Surely, you mean .NET application don

            • Re:WTF? (Score:3, Informative)

              by cdemon6 ( 443233 )
              I don't agree with you. Most Exceptions are likely to appear and can be corrected by the app itself (SocketTimoutException just to name one), and you are forced to catch them (if you don't want to catch all, just catch Exception and you'll get everything). And exceptions like Nullpointers are *still* shown to you if they occur even if they don't have to be catched...
              • But if they are not caught, then the stupid developer (note: almost all developers are stupid, we all know this) will not catch it. He will ignore a FileNotFoundException for example, the exception will propagate up, get printed on stdout (which the users never see) and the whole damn thread will die.

                This may be good for your average VB-type desktop app, but for a multi threaded backend server this is a disaster. Such things simply should never be allowed to occur.

                The special thing about the checked e

          • Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 )
            C# is the language of people who don't know how to fucking program.

            Are you trying to tell me there are more lame-ass resume-engineers claiming C# more than Java? Haha right. I think the tinfoil is coming off of your hat.

          • Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Full Meat ( 681492 )
            Insightful? I object to the rating more than this ignorant troll!

            1)Thrown out your Big Iron and spent an equivilent amount on a Windows cluster

            Or maybe your company is one of the thousands that have battalions of MCSEs and volume licensing agreements with MS, so a Windows platform decision happens to make more sense.

            I like the auto shop mentality though.

            2) Hired a bunch of people without checking if they knew the language your system is built on

            Huh?

            3) Got paid off by Microsoft (ie: Uni. of

        • Re:Consumers? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:56AM (#9738569)
          An example of this is how all the students at the local Universities are petitioning to have Java removed as the core programming language as they are complaining that is just not applicable enough compared to other languages such as C#.

          Beware the Astroturf of Microsoft on campus!

          My school never had anyone intrested in a .NET or MS users group until Microsoft actually PAID some students to start one! Now they are always have events sponsored by MS and bringing in new books paid for by MS to the library or just doing various pro-MS propoganda.

          Now I'm not bitching about extra C# books in the library...what I am bitching about is Microsoft paying students to do things like "petition for the removal of outdated languages like Java from the curriculum".

          MS couldn't keep up with real grassroots Linux and BSD groups on campus so they actually had to PAY for students to create MS and .NET user groups! That's like prostitution and shame on the student whores who work with MS on this!
        • Voting to oust Java is the surest way to become the MCDonalds workers of the IT industry - if you can even find the jobs.

          I am a little sad to see great teaching languages like Scheme fall to the wayside though. I think there is great value in teaching people Scheme first instead of Java or C# to start with.
      • Is it? Hm. To which languages? C#?

        Java was such a spectacular success in the mid-90's because there was really not much else that was widespread for the non-Microsoft crowd back then, either in terms of languages or in terms of toolkits. Java got a lot of attention and had a lot of promise.

        In 2004, we have lots of choices besides Java: C#, PHP, Ruby, and Python, to name just a few. And C++ has matured to the point where there are lots of good C++ libraries and toolkits (there weren't in the mid-90's).

    • Did you count'em? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:14AM (#9737550)
      The last time I looked at the numbers of Java developers, it was continuousily rising.

      But don't take my word for it:
      http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040629/221/eww5e.htm l

      • Re:Did you count'em? (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Those numbers are coming directly from a Sun press release. They count every download as a "new Java developer" which is clearly incorrect. Sun is going to make the numbers sound good in Javas favor as they are marketing it. Did you watch JavaOne? The rhetoric that they come up with to avoid the facts is truly amazing.
      • That doesn't necessarily mean anything, other than (if accurate) the fact that new people are picking up Java at a greater rate than people who already knew Java are dying. Once a Java developer always a Java developer, no?

        I mean, I like Java. I'm certified by Sun as a Java developer. I'm probably counted in any number of Java developers statistic you care to name.

        That said, it's been over two years since I've been offered any Java work. I know there are still projects out there being built on Jav

    • They don't know what Java means (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nurgled ( 63197 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:03AM (#9737977)

      I remember when J2ME first became popular and I heard 12 and 13 year olds sitting in the street talking about how their phones support "Java" and how that means that they can play games on it.

      Similar things happened several times, and most of the time it was clear that none of them really knew what Java was or how it related to games or phones, it's just a name for a thing the phone does like "polyphonic ringtones" or "WAP".

      Also, I would have trouble buying "Java Powered" unless the phone's core software was running in a JVM. "Runs trivial little games and applications using Java" isn't the same as "Wouldn't work at all without Java".

      • "Runs trivial little games and applications using Java" means that one of the things which is seriously profitable to mobile operators - downloaded games - uses Java. That's actually a big deal.

    • Re:Consumers? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by hackstraw ( 262471 ) *
      Consumers don't care what language there application is written in as long as it does what is requested.

      Well, not to flame but in my experience java sucks, and always has sucked. Forturnately, the marketing people at Sun have convinced them to follow the Solaris versioning and jump from 1.4 to 5 [sun.com].

      I guess I have to be more specific with its suckiness. Back when java was newer Netscape on Linux + Java = long lag & loadtime, then crash. This was back when Java was pushed as _the_ GUI app, because you
      • I agree with you and the marketing people. One thing I found very confusing when I first started to learn JAVA was actually figuring out...what the hell JAVA actually was because everything was named "Java Something".

    • No Developers left....

      At the last count there were 4 million and the 2003 figure for Java Services stood at $110bn.

      The mobile market shipped 250m devices last year (350m to date) and generated $3.5bn in revenue on that platform alone.

      Do you have any evidence to support your claim ?

      Or are you just making everything up based on your own experience.

  • Well another sticker... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by derphilipp ( 745164 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:06AM (#9737460) Homepage
    Well Microsoft - or better: the vendors do this with every nearly every x86, printer, mouse, soundcard, usb stick, external harddrive.... nerly every piece of hardware sold today. I'm waiting for a tux- and an apple-sticker (sometimes you can see the "finder-face" on certified compatible hardware (like I already saw on some newer laserprintes)
  • ....of 1998.

    "We've got one million customers!"
    "For what?"
    "Our, er, free service. But I'm sure they'll give us money if we ask!"
  • ...that Sun is not going to release Java under the GNU General Public License anytime soon.

  • Students (Score:5, Funny)

    by secondsun ( 195377 ) <secondsun@gmail.com> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:07AM (#9737477) Journal
    I feel sorry for all of the over caffinated students that are going to get branded when this is all over.

    Well the onlly marketable named product Sun has right now is Java, and they are whoring out their youngest child for crack faster than you can say Sweet Zombie Jesus. I like Java, I really do, but it's alphabet soup family of products reads like intrest groups at gay pride parades. J2ME5, J2EE5, JDBC, JWS, JNLP, J2SDk,J2RE, etc. Maybe they should focus on their other marginally successful products like... umm.. well... umm...

  • I like milk and sugar with my Java (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ArgyleAgent ( 748561 ) <jmcgraw1NO@SPAMbinghamton.edu> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:07AM (#9737478)
    Looks like a sign that Sun is getting a little worried about their hardware business. You can still make money off of free things, right?

  • Sun is grasping... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ecklesweb ( 713901 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:08AM (#9737487)
    From the article (a quote by Sun):

    "When consumers see the name 'Java,' they understand that has stuff that makes it work better on the Internet."

    That's just stretching it a little far. Java is (so far) a programming language, this JDS nonsense not withstanding. It only has stuff that makes it work better on the Internet if the developers design and code that stuff (using Java or something else).

    I wonder if Sun is going to dilute its brand among developers (where the Java brand really buys them something) by pushing the brand into a consumer light. I can understand Sun's desire to have a strong consumer brand, and maybe it's easier to start with an existing brand than to build one from scratch, but I just think they're going the wrong direction with this. If they want a consumer brand, why not try to revive "Star" or just build from the ground up. IF they have something serious to offer consumers, building the brand shouldn't be that hard.

    • Re:Sun is grasping... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Kombat ( 93720 ) <kevin@swanweddingphotography.com> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:31AM (#9737696)
      Java is (so far) a programming language, this JDS nonsense not withstanding. It only has stuff that makes it work better on the Internet if the developers design and code that stuff

      Uh, that's the point. It already does. Developers have already "designed and coded" that stuff into the core API. Java's core framework is astutely network-aware. It is trivially easy to write a Java app that uses the network, unlike C, which requires a great deal more knowledge of low-level network functionality and threading models.

    • Re:Sun is grasping... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )
      That's just stretching it a little far. Java is (so far) a programming language, this JDS nonsense not withstanding.
      Well... In some contexts Java is a language; in others it's a platform. In the context of phones it's a platform rather than a language - if you're really worried about minimising your footprint you may find yourself assembling bytecode with Jasmin rather than writing Java source.
    • The problem, as I see it, is the classic clash between a technology company and its public owners. Sun's stock price was absolutely hammered in the crash, and it has not even come close to recovering. I *still own* my Sun stock, because it's completely worthless to sell. Institutional investors, in particular, are not patient; they've been howling for Sun to return to its pre-crash levels for several years now.

      Over the past three years, the price has risen, slowly, to its current level of a little over

  • Last time I checked (Score:5, Informative)

    by SwansonMarpalum ( 521840 ) <redina.alum@rpi@edu> on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:09AM (#9737491) Homepage Journal
    Last time I checked, J2ME is Java 2, Micro Edition, not Java 2 Media Edition. The point being that it is a very small virtual machine (as far as memory footprint and storage required)

  • Competing stickers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eltoyoboyo ( 750015 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:11AM (#9737511) Journal
    It may seem like a lot of stuff will have Java powered stickers. However, the vast majority of microprocessor-controlled consumer electronics could well have a "[processor] Assembly Language Powered" or "[processor] Machine Language Powered" sticker - even the "Java powered" ones.

    Even if the knowledgable geek cares, Joe BestBuy consumer does not care and will not preferentially select a Java powered item.

    • A lot of embedded things use ARM cores. ARM does not manufacture chips itself, it licences designs. These designs are fairly modular, allowing you to add extra components (e.g. MMU or FPU) easily. One of these optional components is (or was, the last time I looked) a module which ran Java bytecode natively. I don't know if anyone actually uses this, but if they do then such a product really is Java powered.

      Mind you, the keyboard I use on my Mac has a `Designed for MS Windows' sticker on it, as does t

  • In other news, Starbucks will start its own awareness campaign by placing stickers of coffee cups with "$10" printed in the middle of them on various CDs, Office supplies, video games, and books.

    Shashdot has also announced that it will start an awareness campaign of its own that has the experts puzzled. Robert Potter of NetCraft says "I dont understand how the hot grits, levis, and slashdot could be so big, this was totally off our radar! totally!"
  • [accosting J Random Pedestrian]"sir, I'd like to tell you about our"[gets punched and knocked to the pavement...again]

  • But not on Space Invaders clones. (Score:5, Funny)

    by curtisk ( 191737 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:12AM (#9737526) Homepage Journal
    Note: grousing about rejected Java game clones [cmdrtaco.net] is Offtopic and usually gets moderated that way. It happens, don't take it personally.
    • Note: grousing about rejected Java game clones is Offtopic and usually gets moderated that way. It happens, don't take it personally.

      I'll second that. I got one of these emails from the Sun lawyers once, and I think Taco is blowing it all a bit out of proportion.

      It's not even an "it happens" kind of thing -- it's simple trademark protection that every company does (or they lose their trademarks). You can't give something a name with "Java" in it unless you are Sun - it's that simple. I had a "Java Mus

  • cmdrtaco.net slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)

    by Seft ( 659449 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:21AM (#9737613)
    Oh dear, you gotta love the irony.
  • java jvms written in language X... so every device running java should say powered by java/ powered by X ?
    • Well, really, once the jvm is compiled, assembled, and linked so that it may be executed, it's just machine code. The original language used to implement it doesn't matter, ie. it's transparent.

      However, I for one would love to see "pwn3d by C" on the side of my microwave.

      It'd be sad though if we started seeing stuff like, "Powered by VB!" ... Sad indeed.

      it'd be funny, you be able to tell who the real geeks are when they goto circuit city to buy something...


      "null pointers dereferenced here" -slu

  • Java awareness (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:25AM (#9737643)
    Before tackling Java awareness amongst the general public, you'd think that Sun would start with its own marketing department. Specifically what is and isn't Java (JDS, renaming all the old Netscape/iPlanet/Sun ONE products to Java... etc).

    No wonder the public is no clearer on what Java is than they are about .NET.

  • Sun have finally woken up to the fact that most consumers are tech-dreads not tech-heads. They fear tech more than they welcome it and as such need to be comforted when faced with unfamiliar grounds. Intel realised this years ago and have made sure that unless there's an 'Intel Inside' ("_DUM_.do de dum DEE!") sticker on the side, people will worry and say, "What's the pentuim? Will it work without an intel inside?" Prepare for the "Is your microwave/fridge/car/computer/watch/relational_dat abase caffinated?" campaign. FUD works.

    Java on mobile has increased the framework's profile a LOT, especially amoung younger phone buyers. Even my kid brother knows about java games, and he can barely use e-mail. Java seems to mean 'fun' in the minds of some. Well maybe not, but it means Something!

    It must have finally clicked with Sun that people just won't magically get to know about java through the grapevine. You need stickers, Java Inside, Duke, Gosling's beard, hip coders(very hard to find :E) and big TV ads to promote your technology so people will say, "Hey what about Java? I'd like to have that." Essentially, to really sell a technology, no matter how good or bad it is, you have to play to the Pointy Haired Boss.

    Of course Sun would LOVE to to foster the belief out there that unless it's got Java, it's worthless. "Has it got Java? Will it work without that coffe sticker?" It could happen. I wonder will Microsoft realise a similar campaign. One based on a cup of tea perhaps? I wonder will .NET get a publicity campaign or will it just be shoved down our throats with pictures of smiling actors staring into PC screens(which we can't see). They may regret not using that cup of tea. Then again Sun may regret all that money wasted on sticker that people thought were promoting a new decaf drink.

    Disclaimer: Java is Good. Garbage collection is Smart++.
    • That's all true, but I wonder how many people will still think "Java? Wasn't that supposed o replace the Internet back in 1996?"

      On the other hand, maybe I'm just old and the target audience for new portable devices really doesn't remember 1996. (Should I stop wearing this flannel shirt tied around my waist? And why can't I find Zima in the store anymore?)

    • Itel inside was a clever marketing/cobranding scheme cooked up by Intel so consumers wouldn't view computers as a commodity. When vendors sold Intel merch, some of the dollars went into a pool the vendor could use for advertising, but only it if the ads contained the "Intel inside" logo and met some other requirements. The book Marketing High Technology: An Insider's View [barnesandnoble.com] goes over this concept in detail. IIRC, the author was one of the people who put together the Intel Inside program. The plan also get
    • So let's see here... Microsoft could take this up. But, what could Microsoft release that is similar to the "Intel Inside" dealie that you see on those computer cases. hmmmmm.... [sicomputer.it] I wonder...

  • Media Edition? (Score:3, Informative)

    by lenhap ( 717304 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:33AM (#9737705)
    Umm come on...
    J2ME (Java 2 Media Edition) compatable.


    J2ME standands for Java 2 Micro Edition, a subset of J2SE, Java 2 Standard Edition. J2ME is meant for devices with limited resources. Wow, how did that get through to the front page...

    Heres a link...http://java.sun.com/j2me/index.jsp [sun.com]

  • Also about Sun's new Java direction (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:34AM (#9737716)
    Also on eweek.com, Sun's thinking about Java extension, and other new language stuff. This is cool, but get real. I am a Java loyal, but regardless, be objective and here is what I think:

    1) Gosling is not good to head the dev department. He's good as a tech guy, but not neccessary on direction and management. Often but not always, a very very nerdy guy can hardly be a good manager. You'll see my point in the next item.
    2) Fix bugs, make swing faster, less memory hog, and fix bug. I would like to emphasize fix bug. If you search, there's over 20 thousands bug/rfe. I would use a new release with bug fixes instantly versus the new 5.0.
    3) They don't have resource, then how could they create a thing new, usable, releasable? They're so thin on dev resource (from some of their forums, their developers said so), they should concentrate them on fix bug, improve speed, make the IDE, app server betters instead. That's call wise management. It's not going to do some cool stuff.
    4) Related, but not directly. To survive, they have to bring out hardware servers out quickly, using standard/generic component instead of years in reasearch. They'll come out with new sparc in 2005. Common, AMD and Intell come out with new CPU almost every month. For servers, why the heck they keep taking so long to come out with something? Just buy a white box, test it, and ship them. (over simplified).

    You could mark me troll, but please have mercy tell me why. And also, I am really interested in your wonderful different opinions.

  • I remember the last time they tried something big in India.They sponsored the launch of Deccan Airways.There was a coffe cup on the tail and Sun logo near the cockpit.Only that the picture of the plane landed up in top news paper headlines when the plane's body was on fire... seriously.. the inaugural flight with several ministers inside,caught fire and it looked as if Sun's new aircraft caught fire !! ;).. so much for publicity..

  • With all this "product awareness"... (Score:5, Funny)

    by hal2814 ( 725639 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:37AM (#9737737)
    ...all our stuff will look like NASCAR. First we have a label for the brand name. Then we had the label for the processor (Motorola, Intel, AMD, TI, etc). Then we had to get a label for the OS (MS Windows). Now we have the platform running on the OS. What's next? Maybe a label for the store that sold it to you. Or they could do a label for each company that preinstalls software on the device. They could even sell advertising space on the device.

    I for one would like a plain white microwave instead of the Goldstar/Motorola/Windows CE/Lowe's labelled microwave. If I want to know what my microwave is running, I'll look it up.

  • Java phones... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shic ( 309152 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:53AM (#9737873)
    They would do well to start with developer awareness...I was bemused that while I could find lots of phones touting "support for java games" - I couldn't find satisfactory documentation on what this means. I've no interest in games per-se, however given a blue-tooth phone with support for Java - I am interested in business applications. I want to find out if I can use blue-tooth phones in cryptographic authentication systems; I want to know what APIs are available to allow my phone to run bespoke messaging software. Hell - I'd like to see a sample application which amounts to more than a trivial waste of time. I can't help thinking that this technology holds the key to interesting new systems... but that won't happen if Java is just a buzzword denoting a more expensive toy.
    • My migthy :) Siemens C55 has 320 kb of ram and I bought an application which downloads my IMAP mail and can display attached graphics in monochrome.

      Well it costed 15 or 20 bucks (can't remember), they really deserve it.

  • Strength of Branding (Score:5, Insightful)

    by agentxy ( 544949 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @09:55AM (#9737894)
    Branding is a strong advantage when it comes to marketing a product. When basic Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats* (SWOT) analysis is done on any well known business, strong brand name recognition is almost always considered an advantage.

    A great example is another Java maker, Starbucks.... Very few people are willing to pay 3 bucks for plain, regular coffee from 7-11 or McDonalds, but may are willing to fork over 3 bucks if the coffee comes in a cup with a big green Starbucks logo.

    Secondly, SUN is trying taking steps to improve its strategic position. Put yourself in SUNs position, your strongest product is JAVA. Appliances all over the world use JAVA, JAVA is taught in most colleges and universities, JAVA is widely used on the Internet, and most importantly (from SUNs point of view) JAVA isn't making SUN the money it could be.

    If I were on SUN's team, my first step would ensure regular people (moms, dads, and non-slashdotters) realize how widespread JAVA is and how "good" it is for computing. Then I would ensure regular people associate JAVA with SUN. Thirdly, (to the dismay of most slashdot readers) I would use my JAVA = SUN association to make money.

    SUN will be criticized for making moves to strengthen its position and SUN will be criticized for NOT making moves to strengthen its position, so ignore the critics, make solid technical and business decisions and do what every business was designed to do, make some money

    Thoughts?

    * Porter, M. Harvard Business School

  • I don't know what other people's experiences are with 'java-powered' products, but every complex application I've seen rolled out has problems far bigger than the problems solved. Worse, JAVA has yet to live up to its original claims.
    1) Write once run anywhere. I've yet to see this true of any complex app. It's problably been done, though. I just haven't seen it done.
    2) Compatibility problems. I install one version of the run-time environment for a must-have client app, and the rest break. It can be f
    • Indeed, the support for Java on several platforms is not very good, in fact, it's quite bad. For Windows, and distros that are Sun Partners, you can have a working Java fairly easy. Now, try the same on OpenBSD, and you will experience the Sun "Open Source" license horror that includes registering and agreeing to some nasty EULA's before downloading needed (very, very big) files that is part of the port. So, in pure irony, .NET via Mono might very well be more portable.
  • Instead of throwing away money on a marketing blitz, why don't they fix Swing bugs/compatibility issues?

  • Almost everything (Score:3, Funny)

    by dexter riley ( 556126 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:25AM (#9738197)
    Tiny cup logos will now be pasted on everything from cell phones to microwaves.
    But not on Space Invaders clones.

    ...and not on nuclear reactors, either!

    7.0 DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY 7.1 Licensee acknowledges that Licensed Software may contain errors and is not designed, licensed, or intended for use in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility ("High Risk Activities"). Sun disclaims any express or implied warranty of fitness for such uses. Licensee represents and warrants to Sun that it will not use, distribute or license the Licensed Software for High Risk Activities.

    I like my Java hot, but not hot-as-in-glowing hot!

  • J2ME (Score:3, Informative)

    by psyconaut ( 228947 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @10:31AM (#9738264)
    "J2ME (Java 2 Media Edition)"

    No, Java 2 Micro Edition.

    -psy

  • Or maybe I should say: What's the purpose of purchasing a 64-bit operating system like Solaris if its flagship interface is 32-bits?

    Don't believe me? Try javac-ing the following under Java 1.5.x:

    public class SixtyFourBit
    {
    public static void main (String args[])
    {
    long theLong = 1;
    theLong <<= 32;
    theLong += 1;
    System.out.println("theLong = " + theLong);

    double [] theDoubleArray = new double[theLong];
    }
    }

    Lotsa luck.

  • How is this any different than any other tech marketing campaign?

    Microsoft bombards us with Windows-everything
    Intel bombards us with "Intel-inside", Pentium-whatever

    This is no different. These want people to recognize the brand, so they'll think there is "value add" in whatever they're buying.

    Whether or not there really IS "value add" remains to be seen.
  • That stupid sticker just bombed my OS/2 machine. It sucks.

  • A long time ago .. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Monday July 19, 2004 @02:52PM (#9740558)
    .. in a gallaxy far away there exited a company called Netscape. In addition to their famous web browser, they made various server products (the web server, application server, directory server, etc) for the enterpise. Eventually, their marketing droids have mis-managed the Netscape brand name (and the company web site) to the point where they had to rename their server division and all their server products into "iPlanet". Then they got transferred to Sun, and Sun decided to use the "Sun ONE" brand name for all of this ex-netscape stuff. Now it looks like they are willing to sacrifice this perfectly fine brand name and to confuse their customers even further by renaming their SunONE product line into SunJAVA product line. At this point this is getting really silly now that you suddenly have products like "SunJAVA Directory server" which have little to do with the Java language other than their terrible admin tools are written in Java (we have decided to dump the SunONE DS in favor of OpenLDAP becaususe of SunONE's terrible Java-based admin interface and the lack of proper documentation for CLI tools even though it comes free with Solaris). In the past they also had to rename their OS (SunOS -> Solaris), to rename their compiler suite MULTIPLE time, and to change the versioning scheme for Solaris and Java. Way to go Sun! I am sure they'll rename this whole SunJAVA product line again in a couple of years. When a company feels so insecure about its brands and renames its products so often, many people including me generally see it as a sign of weakness, and not as an improvement.

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