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Google Code Jam 2004 209

Posted by michael from the raspberry-jam dept.
cymen writes "Google's Code Jam 2004 is open for registration at TopCoder.com. Slashdot reported on the 2003 winner and Google has a Code Jam 2003 summary. Grab some caffeine and get hacking!"
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Google Code Jam 2004 More

Google Code Jam 2004

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  • 2003 Summary (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Where is the 2003 summary at the summary link? I can't find it.

    • Re:2003 Summary (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Where is the 2003 summary at the summary link? I can't find it.

      You can't find a web page for a competition sponsored by google?

      Hmm, I wish someone would invent a way to search the web...

      Sorry, but you have been disqualified from the competition.

  • Google - what a great company (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Slashbot Hive-Mind ( 810267 ) <slashbotofborg@hotmail.com> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:08AM (#10137282) Homepage Journal
    $10,000 for the winner, but the real prize is recognition amoung your peers. And it will help open source as well.

    • Re:Google - what a great company (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      it will help open source as well.

      How does a competition which mandates the use of proprietary languages (VB.Net) or "open" languages controlled by major closed-source corporations (C# and Java), "help open source"?

    • Re:Google - what a great company (Score:5, Interesting)

      by r.jimenezz ( 737542 ) <rjimenezh@@@gmail...com> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:44AM (#10137471)
      And it will help open source as well.

      I thought the kind of exercises used in these competitions were rather contrived and "hard" computer science problems... I am not sure the concepts developed could be easily applied to, say, developing a better desktop or interoperating better with proprietary applications/file formats.

      However some of the FOSS community best hackers could register and donate any prizes they net to their projects ;)

      • I thought the kind of exercises used in these competitions were rather contrived and "hard" computer science problems... I am not sure the concepts developed could be easily applied to, say, developing a better desktop or interoperating better with proprietary applications/file formats.

        You are right, and in fact, there is a good chance that any winners of this contest are more than likely not fit to work on "real" code, i.e. the stuff that keeps banks, pacemakers and ATMs working. Being fast is STRONG si
      • I am not sure the concepts developed could be easily applied to, say, developing a better desktop or interoperating better with proprietary applications/file formats.

        I don't know, the big feature of Longhorn (*ducks*) is supposed to be integrated search. Obviously that already exists in Windows, but it is supposed to be smarter or something... who cares.

        By any means, at least submissions won't stay in the hands of the now evil corporation "GOOG". Plus, as a linux "user" I have no idea how to start a good
    • "Bah. Look at that asshole with his code and his caffeine soap and his lah-de-dah Google-fu. I could kick his ass, like...SO hard..."
    • Seriously not trolling here - how can it help open source and not closed?

    • I do hope CodeJam problems are different from typical TopCoder ones. I know couple of guys who used to hang out on TopCoder. From their comments I gathered that being a timed competition its winners are not CompSci geeks or language gurus or design gods. No. Winners merely are the people who over time managed to accumulate a library of frequently used code snippets. Solving the problem is then a matter of simply putting these snippets together.

      If this is in fact true, I don't see any reason why I should gi
      • Fine and dandy, except part of what makes a great CompSci geek, language wizard, or design god is the ability to quickly recognize and analyze a problem, and whip up a solution. Reusing old code snippets in an effective and WORKING way, to me, is "smarter" than cranking out the same old code by rote again.

  • I think I speak for all of us when I say (Score:5, Funny)

    by PatrickThomson ( 712694 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:09AM (#10137286)
    Mmm... Jam...

  • Jimmy! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:14AM (#10137314) Homepage Journal
    There was an interesting comment [slashdot.org] and rebuttal [slashdot.org] in the 2003 winners article on Slashdot that basically stated Google was above the other big corporations out to make a buck, because Google makes you feel good for donating time to their cause. Okay that was 2003. My question is that now Google has gone public, has the mood change very much? I still have a good feeling about them, and I use their services every day, including the search engine (GIS, web search) and Gmail. I'm just wondering if coders feel that $10k is enough money now that the profits have grown so much. I could see them offering $100k to the winner without batting an eye. Are they awarding enough to first place?

    FTA: During the Challenge Phase, competitors view each other's code and try to "break'" that code by passing test cases through the submitted code, with the hope that the results are not satisfied by the software written. Breaking another developer's code is the most direct form of competition for a programmer. In this phase, points are awarded for successful challenges and deducted for unsuccessful challenges.

    To me, it's more important to measure the potential of a programmer, more than the experience of the programmer. Creating new ideas and systems does not require experience alone -- it requires a great deal of potential. Simply breaking and fixing code in a realtime setting is good for the day to day stuff (and that is valuable for Google), but when a customer or boss asks to you build something new and difficult, many experienced programmers answer with, "that can't be done" when less experienced programmers will try to do it, with limited success.

    Does anyone know if Jimmy Mardell was hired by Google?

    • Re:Jimmy! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:33AM (#10137409) Homepage Journal
      Google Codejam is a programming contest, and not a contest to develop a neat application for Google. The problems in the CodeJam are more like puzzles. You are confusing this with the other contest that Google had (the URL for which escapes me) where they gave 10K for the best use of Google.
      • Does anyone actually know who won the 'best Google application' contest? I heard nothing about the winners, the entries, or whether any of the entries are being used now in some form. Anyone care to help me out here?

    • Re:Jimmy! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Brian Quinlan ( 252202 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:15AM (#10137764) Homepage

      To me, it's more important to measure the potential of a programmer, more than the experience of the programmer. Creating new ideas and systems does not require experience alone -- it requires a great deal of potential. Simply breaking and fixing code in a realtime setting is good for the day to day stuff (and that is valuable for Google), but when a customer or boss asks to you build something new and difficult, many experienced programmers answer with, "that can't be done" when less experienced programmers will try to do it, with limited success.

      I did the Google Code Jam last year and found that they required a lot more than basic coding skills.

      One question involved analysing sequences of resource lock and unlocks, represented by upper- and lowercase characters in strings e.g. "ABba", "BAba" and "CADadBbc". Given such strings, you had to write a program to identify potential deadlock conditions e.g. the first two strings can deadlock at position 1 because the first string will hold a lock for A while waiting for B and the second string will hold a lock for B while waiting for A. Of course the real tests were more difficult than this. I think that less than 10 people out of 250 got this one.

      Another question involved graph searching but with the cost of node traversal changing with time according to a pseudorandom algorithm. My solution was only twenty or thirty lines of code but it took a while to think how to do a time-based graph search.

      The challenge phase is fairly challenging (excuse the pun) as well because you only have thirty minutes to make all of your challenges and you lose points if you are incorrect i.e. you claim that a certain valid input combination will cause the program to fail and it doesn't. Thirty minutes is not a lot of time to attack the 30 potentially flawed solutions that you are looking at. You have to pick a set of likely flaws (based on your own design) and quickly scan each set of code for it. Then, when you find a likely candidate, you have to read it in detail to make sure that you aren't wrong.

      My point is that the Google Code Jam is for more than experienced programmers who can quickly bash out simple algorithms - you have to be able to devise novel algorithms under time pressure and devise strategies based on the psycology of your fellow coders

    • Re:Jimmy! (Score:2)

      by lars ( 72 )
      Does anyone know if Jimmy Mardell was hired by Google?

      As far as I know, Jimmy already had a job, so no. I'm sure they wanted to hire him though (they'd be crazy not to). I do know of two other finalists who did get hired on full-time, and some of the finalists who are still students got summer internships.

  • Why not... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by StevenHenderson ( 806391 ) <[stevehenderson] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:14AM (#10137315)
    The 500 participants in Round 1 will receive a "Google Code Jam 2004, Powered by TopCoder" t-shirt. The top five scorers in the Championship Round will receive the following cash prizes

    Why don't they offer something like a job interview for those old enough to take it? Or even a job for the winner (with restrictions, of course)? Imagine how many people would rather work for Google than have the cash prize.

    • Re:Why not... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by upside ( 574799 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:24AM (#10137372) Journal
      They seem to imply something like what you suggest with "You might win some cash. You might wind up changing the world at Google yourself"
      • "The Google(TM) Code Jam 2004 is being offered by Google Inc. ("Google") and TopCoder, Inc. ("TopCoder"). Google is using the results of the Code Jam 2004 to identify possible employees for their company."

        That's the first two lines of the Terms & Conditions.

        Sometimes reading legalese can help.

    • Re:Why not... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tim C ( 15259 )
      Imagine how many people would rather work for Google than have the cash prize.

      That's fine for people who live near them, or are prepared to move, but what about those who aren't, say because they don't even live in the US?

      Living in the UK, I'd very much rather take the cash, personally.

      • Re:Why not... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by StevenHenderson ( 806391 )
        Are you serious? Do you have an idea as to what the salary would be? And after working for Google, you could likely pick your place of employment forever (provided you don't get fired). Google is now a world-wide power in the software community - it would be well worth it to take the job.
        • Yes I'm serious!

          Even if it was just me, I wouldn't want to uproot and move to the States; all my friends and family are here in the UK. As it is, though, I have a partner and a daughter; I'm not about to drag them off to another country on the off-chance of making a name for myself in an industry I'm already in, in order to maybe have a shot at getting the sort of salary that I'll most likely be able to get anyway, given a bit of hard work and a bit of luck.

          If not, well, it's only money; as long as you ha
        • The salary is lower than the industry average. They are really pushing the stock options... with a pretty high strike price. The options would probably still pay off... but not the salary.
      • In the UK? Then there are two offices near by:

        European Headquarters
        Dublin, Ireland

        United Kingdom Sales Office
        London W1D 4AD

        You lucked out! Now, just move to Dublin, and you're all set.

        Google Offices world-wide [google.com]

      • Re:Why not... (Score:3, Informative)

        by buttahead ( 266220 )
        There is an office in Dublin and Zurich. Google has offices all over the world... you might be somewhat close to one.
    • Your missing a bit there. There is X amount in prize money. SOME of it goes to the top few coders. The rest goes to the top coders who did NOT make it to the final, some $23,000 split up or something.

  • oh great (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KingPunk ( 800195 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:19AM (#10137344)
    heh. thats all we need, people who can brag about how fast they can code.
    only problem, when coding in speed, many people make more errors
    its a proven fact that if you think through your objective 1st, and take a decent ammount of time doing so, you're more efficent.
    in fact, i believe it was in the mid-70s that the us govt, thought about increasing the work day from 8hours/day x 5days, to 10hours/day x 4 days to make it more productive for workers.

    • Re:oh great (Score:5, Insightful)

      by attam ( 806532 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:44AM (#10137470)
      have you ever done a topcoder competition? it's about speed AND accuracy. sure the fastest person gets the most points, but a) if your code doesn't pass their system tests you get ZERO points and b) other people can look at your code, try to find faults and challenge it. if they challenge you and your stuff breaks (takes more than allotted amount of time, gets a corner case wrong etc) they get bonus points and you lost your points. i think this is a pretty neat system, and i dont think it's advocates bad practices. remember, these problems are designed to be solved quickly.

      • Re:oh great (Score:4, Funny)

        by shmert ( 258705 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @10:56AM (#10138853) Homepage
        I tried topCoder for a while. Seems that writing obfuscated code is actually an advantage, since people challenging it will be intimidated by its complexity, and reluctant to challenge it. Possible mistakes are buried in junk.

        Somewhat unrelated, but one of the funnier rounds I saw was for a problem which had a small possible set of results. I don't remember the specifics, but someone posted the following code, baiting someone to challenge the result:

        public class CorrectDoor {
        public int whichDoor(String[] args) {
        return (int) (Math.random() * 10);
        // Do you feel lucky, punk?
        // Go ahead, then, challenge
        }
        }

  • In case of slashdotting (Score:4, Funny)

    by chris_eineke ( 634570 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:20AM (#10137346) Homepage Journal
    Google Cache [64.233.179.104]
    ;)

  • Caffeine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Threni ( 635302 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:21AM (#10137348)
    Why would I want to `grab some caffeine`? Surely a good nights sleep is more conducive to concentration?
    • a real "geek" doesnt need sleep. im working on my 27th hour now. hah. and im -caffiene and -sleep :/
    • talking about stereotypes... caffeine is a pretty lousy drug at doing what it does. you can achieve much more fruitful results with for example yohimbine with less side effects than caffeine (yohimbine works as an afrodizziac too)
      • and thats what us geeks really need, is an afrodisiac. rawr. :)
        now we're in buisness.. hehe.

      • Re:Caffeine (Score:2, Funny)

        by palad1 ( 571416 )
        (yohimbine works as an
        afrodizziac too)

        Let me guess, you spell Viagra with a ! and a double 4, don't you?

      • Good thing I dont take yohimbine then. The last thing I want is to be on speed but a little dizzy. I'd rather take something that's an aphrodisiac + caffeine any day. But that's just me. ;)
    • Not everyone works that way - I'm still at school though, but I sleep 12 till 6, have some coffee to get me up in the morning, and I can code for hours.
      Sometimes however, when I sleep 10 till 7, I'm really tired all day, and can't get anything done.
      Just because some people's brains work one way doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

      Seeing as how I'm on slashdot now, rather than writing code, you know how long I slept last night ;)
    • It's pretty hard to sleep and code at the same time ;)

  • Yearh... (Score:3, Funny)

    by beaviz ( 314065 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:32AM (#10137400) Homepage Journal
    Lets give them a Slashdot traffic jam!
  • I reckon good applications of the Google Web APIs [google.com] should also get a chance at the winnings - some crackers that spring to mind are Google Cookin [researchbuzz.org] recipe search, Copyscape [copyscape.com] web plagiarism search, the TouchGraph [touchgraph.com] Google browser, and Google Alert [googlealert.com] for tracking topics. Isn't the point of both the Jam and the APIs to invite external developers to weave their magic around Google's platform?

  • Help me win (Score:4, Funny)

    by nearlygod ( 641860 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:32AM (#10137405) Homepage
    I'm offering $2,500 to anyone who can give my a idea that goes on to win. I am also offering $2,500 to anyone who can impliment said idea so that it results in winning the contest. Any takers?

  • Quebecians (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    From the rules: The Google Code Jam 2004 is void in the Quebec province of Canada

    Could somebody inform me as to why?

    • Because they're using that low-grade legalized marijuana and code weird.

    • Re:Quebecians (Score:5, Informative)

      by Zardoz44 ( 687730 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:07AM (#10137669) Homepage
      I can't give you the details why, off the top of my head, but this is a standard rule for most contests in Canada or North America. There are special lottery rules in Quebec. It's been this way for as long as I care to remember.

      What those rules are, I don't know. I could look, but I don't really care.

    • Re:Quebecians (Score:3, Informative)

      by mrtroy ( 640746 )
      I believe in Quebec contests have to have equal chances of everyone winning, with no purchase required. So, you cannot give a prize to whoever actually wins the contest.

    • Someone else informed you as to why Quebec makes a lots of contests void; I'm informing you that they are referred to as Quebeçois.

      "Quebecians" is really cringeworthy.

  • No Perl? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CaptainBaz ( 621098 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:37AM (#10137432) Homepage Journal
    Use Java, C++, C# or VB.NET.

    No Perl?

    No Python?

    No ("cool" hacker language of the day)?

    How many real geeks are they going to attract?

    • Re:No Perl? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:48AM (#10137502)
      It is because those are the languages supported by TopCoder, which runs the coding challenges for many different corporate sponsors. Google's tournament just happens to be one of the higher-profile ones out there.

    • Re:No Perl? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Indeed. Why not?

      From www.python.org:

      "Python has been an important part of Google since the beginning, and remains so as the system grows and evolves. Today dozens of Google engineers use Python, and we're looking for more people with skills in this language." said Peter Norvig, director of search quality at Google, Inc.
    • Okay, I can understand Java, C++ or C#...but VB.NET?????? Perl, Python, PHP and other languages are obviously the kinds of languages you really don't bother compiling. Java, C++ and C# make all sorts of sense as far as being compiled for speed, etc. But VB.NET??? Blech.
    • I agree. Real hackers never use those crappy modern languages like C and PL/1. Any coding competition that does not require assembly language use and going through memory dumps is retarded, and no self-respecting real hacker should attend.

    • Re:No Perl? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mondoterrifico ( 317567 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:00AM (#10137579) Journal
      How many real geeks are they going to attract?
      Thanks for the laugh. I didn't realize you people still existed. This isn't highschool where everyone "cool" dresses in black thinking they are the special ones.
      • Ha.

        In the UK, everyone wears uniform at high school, but I know what you mean.

        What I was actually alluding to was the fact that modern 'hacker/geek' languages like Perl or Python will often let you solve problems more quickly than eg. Java with its strict typing.

        Given that the competition is effectively a race against time, it's a shame that you don't seem to be allowed to use a language designed to help you accomplish these things more quickly.

        And yes, interpreted languages will be slower than compiled

        • And yes, interpreted languages will be slower than compiled ones

          This is becoming less true over time, and already is not true in many cases. Modern interpreters can do statistical analysis on running code and make it more efficient over time. Doing this with compiled languages would require an intimate knowledge by the developer of all possible execution paths, something that becomes more time consuming than it is worth.

          Moral: Compiled languages are not always faster in the long run.

        • Heh, sorry for the tone of my reply. Will teach me to make comments before I have ingested the necessary caffeine.
      • To be fair, he was referring to a story on /. last week about what languages "cool" coders use. I would provide you with a link, but I'm lazy.

    • Re:No Perl? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Zwets ( 645911 )

      'Real geeks' are language-agnostic and won't care much what language they use for this.

      Besides, some of the problems are presumably very processor-intensive (they mention chess problems) so a compiled language would be a better choice for that.

      • Re:No Perl? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:40AM (#10138005) Homepage Journal
        So you're saying that Google isn't full of 'real geeks'? I'd disagree, since it's well known they use Python and Perl in house.

        Furthermore, languages like Python and Perl are far better known for doing Google-esque tasks than all of the languages in that list except C++.

        There are a lot of insanely great Python and Perl programmers out there who'd need to do a few months' hard study of those other languages to be able to get up with there with the best in, say, C#.. and then find that they still need to use their old languages for all their regular work anyway.

        Let's face it, this contest isn't designed for the best of the best to enter, it's designed for the best in C++, C#, VB.NET, and Java, which is a different thing entirely.
    • Various programming languages are just different tools in my toolbox. Sometimes a screwdriver works really well and sometimes I just need a hammer.

    • Re:No Perl? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:45AM (#10138059) Homepage Journal
      Perhaps they're not looking for people with true creativity or passion, because those people are already working on their own projects.

      What they're looking for are typical Java, C#, and VB.NET (I'm excluding C++, as it's a catch-all) programmers who might be excellent coders, but typically lack originality and need to be spoon-fed with problems which they can then solve with some rapidly produced code.

      The true masters out there aren't spoon-fed problems; they find the problems and then they solve them independently of the programming language. Google are looking for code grunts to do maintenance work. They already have the 'big minds' in the form of the many PhDs on their staff.
      • If that's the case, don't you think they're looking in the wrong place? I was a finalist last year and also know many of the competitors from other competitions as well. I think more than half of them already have PhD's or are currently working towards one.
    • How many real geeks are they going to attract?

      All the ones that would sell their souls to be noticed by Google?

      There are more than a few 'real' geeks that would write the code in BASIC while in a barrel going over Niagara Falls in exchange for a chance to work for Sergey Brin.

  • So, will they take the winning app and block it? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mbourgon ( 186257 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @08:43AM (#10137465) Homepage
    I can see it now - something like the GoogleMail FS comes out of it, only to get blocked like the notifiers are.
  • Use Google for flooking up the answers.

  • Challenge #1: Re-write the interface (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tarwn ( 458323 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:42AM (#10138034) Homepage
    yep, thefirst challenge will be to rewrite the TopCoder interface to convince it that it does not need 100% of the CPU...that 5-10 second pauses while your typing code should NOT occur...that in a timed competition it is not reasonable to make someone go back and retype something 5 lines earlier simplybecause the interface froze up...

    I mean crashes are on thing, you would expect the connection to get lost occasionally (try every time I have tried to do a practice problem), but c'mon, who hosts a coding competition with an interface that idles at 100% CPU usage?

    -T

  • Chickens won't even allow Jython (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Baldrson ( 78598 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @09:51AM (#10138144) Homepage Journal
    If you aren't going to allow any of the major dynamically typed langauges like Python or Perl or even Jython (if you're really stuck on those libs), then isn't it an admission that Paul Graham is right [slashdot.org] and that Google's programming contest is simply an example of subgreatness?
    • ...Google's programming contest is simply an example of subgreatness

      OK, I'll bite. Your comment is the only hit on Google for the word "subgreatness".

      Of course you are baiting Google, so there's that to consider...
      • Of course you are baiting Google, so there's that to consider...

        Well, there's also this [subgenius.com] to consider.

        I'm actually rather surprised no one coined the take-off "subgreatness" at all before. There's been a lot of verbage indexed since J. R. "Bob" Dobbs first appeared on the scene.

  • Java, C++, C# or VB.NET
    I wonder why there's so much more prestige attached to the ICFP Progamming Contest [upenn.edu]

  • Why is this a "programming" challange? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by clambake ( 37702 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @11:57AM (#10139746) Homepage
    I read through the various sample problems, and I see nothing at all resembling a "programming challenge". Sure there are algorithms that need to be written, but it's just that, algorithms and logic. Things you can write down on a sheet of paper in long hand. The only reason programming is involved in any way, shape, or form is because it's an easy way to test people's algorithms, not becuase it's a fundamental part of this "challenge".

    I offer that a mathematician who has never in his life even SEEN or HEARD of a computer could solve these problems, all of them, without a line of code. How then can this be considered a "programming" challenge?

    A REAL programming challenge would deal with the real problems that programmers face: memory leaks, error correction, fault tolerance, user interface design, maintainability, speed, scalability, efficient object model design, database schema design, etc.

    It's unfortunate that people look at these contests and think, whoah, that dude must be some hot shit programmer to be able to solve that! But really, he could be a crap programmer (hell they offer VB.NET for gosh sakes!) and just took a whole lot of logic and calculus. That doesn't mean if you hire him he'll do a damn bit of good for your company. It doesn't mean that any project he works on will be in any way maintainable. In fact, more likely than not, any code he writes will be only understandable by him and will turn into a taboo "don't touch it becuase it'll break if you sneeze" mess that costs endless amounts of pain and money.

    I wish for once I saw someone have the intelligence to put out a REAL *programming* challange. One that requires you to think about entire systems, about design and IMPLICATIONS of design, about the subtle balance between speed and stability, about the umpteen million things that divides the '1337 h4X0r who is brilliant but considers random crashes to be expected from the professional and vastly underappreciated programmer who's work is so rock solid that he doesn't need a pager for the weekends. THOSE are the people who should be getting the props.

    • Meh. Google likes to hire these potentially "crap programmers", and I think I'll take their word about what makes a good programmer over yours.

      The bottom line is that to do well in these kind of competitions, you have to be smart, but also able to implement your ideas quickly and accurately. The latter being a lot less trivial than you make it out to be. I rather doubt many people that smart would have much trouble designing good UIs or writing maintainable code. Problem solving skills are transferrable
    • If you go to topcoder.com [topcoder.com] and look at the leaderboard, etc., you'll see that this type of competition is actually classified as "algorithm." The site advertises "programming" contests in general, but the component contests are probably closer to what you had in mind as the ideal than what you and they both identify as "algorithm."

    • I wish for once I saw someone have the intelligence to put out a REAL *programming* challange. One that requires you to think about entire systems, about design and IMPLICATIONS of design, about the subtle balance between speed and stability, about the umpteen million things that divides the '1337 h4X0r who is brilliant but considers random crashes to be expected from the professional and vastly underappreciated programmer who's work is so rock solid that he doesn't need a pager for the weekends. THOSE are

  • 1. Don't hire real coders, but have a contest with hacker community during their free time.
    2. Make contest problem related to business related objectives and take code to hired code "fixers" to intergrate into current products
    3. PROFIT (and happy shareholders)

    Sounds a little like the movie Antitrust to me, but who am I to judge, "Don't Be Evil" ohhh I mean Google

  • If I were google, I'd be a lot more interested
    in what a programmer/software systems architect
    can accomplish in a year than in a day.

    A day is totally random.

    Also, shouldn't the candidate's creativity
    at originating novel ideas count for something
    and not just their "well-studied code mechanic"
    skills?

    Spoken from the perspective of someone who used
    to get ~100% on the portions of tests that I
    completed in the allowed time for the test.
    Unfortunately, I only completed the first
    80 or 90% of the test because I thou
  • Use Java, C++, C# or VB.NET. Pick any of these programming languages to code your solutions.

    Oh boy! We have the opportunity to use one of four different pain-in-the-ass programming languages!

    What a waste of time.

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