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Communications Handhelds Hardware Hacking Java Programming Hardware

Motorola Hacker Rewards Program 204

Posted by michael from the some-disassembly-required dept.
Nuclear Elephant writes "Pen Computing Magazine recently ran an article about the Motorola v710, which has been crippled by Verizon. A hacking contest is now underway, and the pot is steadily growing. The first hacker to provide a hack (or instructions) to enable OBEX and OPP features on the handset before Jan 1 wins the pot. See the official site for more information." We mentioned this phone a few days ago.
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Motorola Hacker Rewards Program More

Motorola Hacker Rewards Program

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  • Does the prize include (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:37PM (#10163216)
    Lawyers fees for the DMCA lawsuit from Verizon?
    • Is this covered by the DMCA though?

    • Re:Does the prize include (Score:5, Interesting)

      by erick99 ( 743982 ) <homerun@gmail.com> on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:52PM (#10163309)
      I worked for one of the top three cell phone companies from April until August of this year (I resigned on Aug 12th). You would not believe this industry from the inside. First they shoot themselves in the foot by selling phones for a penny that costs them several hundred dollars. Then, they try to get it back by selling all sorts of "extras." The billing errors alone probably make up some of the lost profit. I did not see a single billing error on any of my screens that were in favor of a customer. My own bill for my two boys were off by $150/month for three months in the carriers favor. The pressure to get new "activations" is enormous. You are directed to say almost anything to get a new activation and then they deal with the lies on the backend. If you choose not to lie, as I did, they make your life almost unbearable. I did make a good income and I could have continued. But, I got so that I didn't like myself much anymore.

      Cheers,

      Erick

      • Yep. I interviewed at qualcomm for a *1 MONTH TEMP POSTITION* testing BREW apps. I had a few friends who worked there... Long story short, the interviewer asks me "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" You have to imagine at this time I'm already sick of these assholes, they've been asking me the dumbest questions, and they've made me come out for an interview (1 month temp position=PHONE INTERVIEW). So I decide to blow the interview and say, "Not working for you for 4 years and 11 months." :-D

        • Not to be too harsh on you... (Score:5, Funny)

          by PaulBu ( 473180 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @02:26PM (#10163758) Homepage
          But maybe this story explains your .signature? ;-)

          Paul B.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I have nothing bad to say about US cellular. Sure every other person on earth has the same exact phone as me, but the monthly rate is good. So is their service; they called me about 2 weeks after i bought the plan to see if I had any questions. That was pretty thoughtful (a waste of my time, but I have to give them credit for caring). Also the sales droid there was very honest about everything, and even advised me that some of the competitors had better plans.

          All in all, a very nice bunch of people to
      • You have to realize that the last thing a customer with a billing error in their favor is going to do is call the cellphone company. Judging the quality of a product or service from a large corporation based on your experiences as a customer service representative is usually very narrow-minded, because you only get to hear about the bad experiences and not the good.

        I'm not defending the company here, because for all I know they ARE scam artists, but I'm just pointing out that I've found the cynicism of my
      • You're branding the entire industry as bad guys, when this is clearly not the case. I work at a cellphone reseller, a business specialist that provides cellphones for entire companies. The phones are sold very cheaply (often given away), as the real money is in the line rental. Your monthly fee more than makes up for the handset after a few months, and the network makes lots more money from charging cross-network "tax", when calls originating off their network are routed across it. Saying they "shoot th
    • This really has nothing to do with the DMCA. Hacking the v710 to enable OBEX and OPP hasn't got anything to do with breaking copy protection - all it involves is enabling some features on a piece of hardware that you own. If the phone were being cracked so that pirated BREW apps would run, that would be one thing. The only thing being copied here are the user's own personal files to which they own the copyright...which is irrelevant to the DMCA.
      • And if you think about it, Verizon's TOC is really more against the DMCA than this as they've circumvented the rightful owners of copyright from being able to transfer their works without being intercepted by their network.

  • Separate betting pool established (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:39PM (#10163228)
    $20 to enter. Whoever guesses closest to the actual date and time the DMCA is invoked to stop this, wins it all!

  • Verizon? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tommyboyprime ( 694285 ) *
    OK it's a nifty phone with all the features enabled, but $519 who the hell needs it?

    • Re:Verizon? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 )
      Well, I'm looking at shelling-out $1k for a Motorolla MPx when it's released (assuming it gets more good reviews). Already have a SE P800 which was just under $1k when it was released. Expensive? Sure, but it's cheaper than buying myself a laptop which would gather dust most of the time except when I'm not at home or in the office.

      I have little to no use for a laptop, but I use my P800 all the time, for everything from reading acrobat files, to editing word documents, chatting on MSN/ICQ, taking photos,

  • Verizon known for crippling phones (Score:5, Informative)

    by __aaitqo8496 ( 231556 ) * on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:44PM (#10163249) Journal
    Verizon is known for doing this type of things with thier phones. Entire communities have been created to discuss the problems and find workarounds. Just taking a look around at Howard forums [howardforums.com] and you can come up with tools such as the balpatch [howardforums.com] which was created in an attempt to take control of the Motorola T720 for loading of pics and tones. Despite a user outcry and many letters written to them in complaint of abandoning JAVA in favor of BREW [qualcomm.com] (a proprietary Qualcomm language), Verizon cares not.
    • Verizon is very happy to accept an ESN from you and connect it to your existing plan/phone number. So, anyone is free to go buy a stock unmodified phone from a third party, that meets the signalling requirements, connect it to Verizon, and use all the features of the underlying product.

      It seems to me, if they are willing to front a $300-500 device and sell it to you for a penny, you kind of have to accept what they are offering. That a vendor would customize the software on their phone in an attempt to r
      • FYI -- verizon no longer accepts phones with non-Verizon ESNs. Meaning... if you want to use it on the Verizon network, you have to buy it from Verizon.

        FYI2 -- The phone in question sells for around $250-350. That ain't a penny.
      • They don't activate phones that aren't theirs anymore, and I don't know that they ever did. I tried several times, and they refused to do it. They wouldn't even consider it, it wasn't that they said that the phone was incompatible.. just that it couldn't be done.
      • That ended either a month or two ago. Verizon now has a list of ESN's that they will accept.

        The good side of it is, is that they will never accept a phone that is a piece of shit and makes their network look bad.

        The bad side, of course is, that you have to use phones that you may not necessarily like.

        *shrug* I prefer Verizon. If I ever pay off my debt to them, I'll get a phone with them again, and keep my Sprint phone so that I can play with third party apps.

    • Re:Verizon known for crippling phones (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jonsmirl ( 114798 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @05:48PM (#10164781) Homepage
      I have to agree that Verizon is making the phones useless. Next phone I get is going to be voice only. I wasted a bunch of money buying a couple of Motorola 722's to then find out that I had to pay more to use every feature.

      I wanted to sync my calendar/address book with Yahoo. I called Verizon, no program exists for syncing Yahoo to a Motorola 722. So I said fine I'll write one and open source it. When I mentioned this on the Qualcomm forms I almost got lynched. People complained about commies like me ruining their ability to make money and support their families. I said that I was willing to buy the program but none exists -- no one offered to write it.

      Qualcom is completely against free distibution of apps for Brew. They told me that I could write it and distribute for free on the Verizon net if I was willing to pay the fees for all of the users. I also had to pay a $4000 up front fee. Turns out that they require additional app royalty fees to use the OS I just bought from them.

      The offical reason for this "fee" is that Qualcomm will audit my apps to ensure that they don't contain a virus that would call 911. I tried to point out to them that a virus on home computers with modems is just as dangerous, but they wouldn't listen.

      None of this is Motorola's fault. It is all Qualcomm and Verizon.

      When my contract is up I'm getting a new network and Linux based phones.

  • Bet the pot goes to some Verizon tech (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Myrrh ( 53301 ) <redin575@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:44PM (#10163250)
    What do you want to bet the tech(s) who originally figured out how to cripple the phone hear about this, un-cripple it (or at least tell how), and collect the bounty?

    I'd do it if it were me. Hopefully the pot grows enough to offset the lost income if Verizon finds out and fires the guilty party, though.

  • What!? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:44PM (#10163254)
    They win pot? Where do I enter?!

  • Free Publicity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by UncleBiggims ( 526644 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:44PM (#10163256)
    Could it be that the decision to cripple bluetooth was deliberate? Other companies should take note. Instead of spending money and resources on functionality, just get someone to sponsor a hack-fest. Just think of the free publicity and functionality that will ensue. Think of the increase in sales as all those code slingers seek fame and fortune. Just think of the prestige your customers will feel when they can say, "Yeah, I have the v710, but mine has been hacked."
    • umm.. ***Could it be that the decision to cripple bluetooth was deliberate? ***

      of course it was deliberate, it was a decision they made and then proceeded to execute it. you don't make that sort of functionality changes by pure accidence.

      but were they doing it because of free publicity? hell no.

    • More than likely Verizon was afraid allowing customers to more easily use the phone as a modem would cut into any type of PCMCIA modem sales/service so they pulled it out.

  • Just sit tight. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by peterdaly ( 123554 ) <petedaly@ix.ne[ ]m.com ['tco' in gap]> on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:45PM (#10163259)
    There is a bluetooth update coming something soon (schedule is/was early this month) for the v710. At least one person has claimed to have received word via email from verizon that at least some of the functionality this "hack contest" is looking for will be provided in the update.

    Sit tight until the update comes out...then assess the situation. Then, if needed, we can work ourselves up into a hissy about this.

    I think Verizon released this phone before it was ready, probably due to customers leaving for lack of a bluetooth option. They probably figured the backlash may be better than lost customers, or I could be wrong and they may just be totally missing the boat.

  • DMCA (Score:4, Informative)

    by thebdj ( 768618 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:46PM (#10163269) Journal
    The problem with worrying about the DMCA is that it is not Verizon who can call for it. You see the hardware is create and owned by Motorola. So if anyone would complain it would be them. To be honest if I was Motorola I would be just as pissed at Verizon for castrating my product.
    I suppose Motorola could go after the people, but really do they have anything to lose by people figuring out how to turn a feature on that was originally in the phone to begin with?

  • Que? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:47PM (#10163274) Homepage
    Am I missing something? Why not just switch to a different network that isn't so hostile towards their customers. I mean, the fact that Verizon is actually saying that they don't offer a bluetooth phone because it doesn't fit their business model, despite the fact that many customers want it is ridiculous. Sounds like a path towards an out-of-business model to me.

    • Re:Que? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Myrrh ( 53301 )
      Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. That's what a free market economy is about.

      But out here in the sticks, we pretty much only get service from Verizon, since they're the only ones with a tower.

      Verizon or nothing ... hmm. If it weren't for my wife's insistence on having a cell phone, I'd choose the latter and put that $45/month into wireless internet.
    • Verizon has the best coverage. It's very, very rare that I can't use my phone. That's quite valuable.

    • Re:Que? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7&cornell,edu> on Sunday September 05, 2004 @02:32PM (#10163792) Homepage
      Simple. Every other carrier's coverage sucks.

      Verizon has the best coverage, some of the best customer service (The ONLY time I've had any problems with their customer service was when 90% of their employees were on strike.), and the best quality control on their phones. (Which is why their selection of phones sometimes suffers.)

      Don't like the v710? Go buy another phone. The article linked to is wrong - There are plenty of situations where people have activated Sprint phones on Verizon with no troubles (other than having to unlock the Sprint phone's programming mode. Sprint are bastards like that, whereas the access password for every Verizon phone I've owned has been 00000.)

      I have a Kyocera 6035 Smartphone, with LOTS of features that are "direct competitors" to the ones Verizon wants to push. None of them have been crippled in any way. Same for the 7135.
    • Why not just switch to a different network that isn't so hostile towards their customers.
      A wireless network that's not hostile to its customers? Good luck finding that!

  • As a Verizon and Mac customer (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Fudge.Org ( 7036 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:49PM (#10163288) Homepage Journal
    I find that

    a) it would be better to go with Nextel for a wireless data service.

    b) it would be better to go with AT&T/Cingular for a Bluetooth feature enabled phone selection.

    Verizon gets Moto to give them phones but there is no guarantee who is responsible for the software running on the phone. I get the full impact of this approach when I use my phone today. When I can actually -use- the phone that is.

    Sadly, the current phone I use (Moto T720C) just reboots and has general software issues because I actually try to use the features of the phone. It all started when I did my first iSync. After that, it is very common to just have the phone reboot after reading a text message and the battery life is horrible. That said, if I just used the unit as a phone it is reliable.

    Verizon has swapped out hardware numerous times since it was considered to be a case of bad hardware. Right. Sure. Then when the 5p software load is on the new hardware it still chokes the phone. I would say it is just silly but I actually use my phone for work.

    Finally, I got a rep to admit that Verizon let Moto outsource the software for the T720c and if you try to get one now most reps won't even let you get the T720c if you beg for it. Too many problems.

    I was looking at going to the V710 but now I am leaning towards other options like the LG phones since the Bluetooth on the V710 is not fully baked and may never be.

    I guess Verizon is the choice if -all- you want to do is make phone calls.

  • Bluetooth (Score:2, Insightful)

    by FuzzzyLogik ( 592766 )
    I remember hearing people say bluetooth was dead and it was a giant failure. funny how now bluetooth is something everyone wants :) I wish my verizon phone had bluetooth, I'd love to get a jabra bluetooth headset sure would make talking on the phone easier during my commute to school and such. Ah well, maybe one day a service provider (that isn't crap) would handle a good fully featured bluetooth handset

  • Correction... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by keiferb ( 267153 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @12:50PM (#10163297) Homepage
    The first hacker to provide a hack (or instructions) to enable OBEX and OPP features on the handset before Jan 1 wins the pot.

    Correction. The first hacker's lawyers win the pot defending the first hacker in his DMCA suit.

  • I'd been waiting for this phone. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TellarHK ( 159748 ) <tellarhk&hotmail,com> on Sunday September 05, 2004 @01:00PM (#10163341) Homepage Journal
    For the last -year- I had been waiting for a chance to get a Bluetooth phone with my Verizon account. Fortunately, the same week I see that it's been released, I see posts about Verizon having totally screwed it up so I can avoid spending any cash on it.

    I can understand them wanting to make more money with more feature offerings, but it's unexcusable that they don't explain things more clearly when you're shopping for a phone. The only question now, is who to switch to? My plan is up in December.

    I tried to make sense of the price structures involved in AT&T Wireless' plans, as they do definitely have the best options in phones. I can't even find out anything remotely clear from the site, though. Do they charge different rates for data? Per K? Ugh.
    • T-mobile offers unlimited data for 4.95, it's ok for email, but it's slow as balls browsing the web. Their customer service is also among the best i've dealt with. If you get good reception in your area, I highly reccomend them.
      • I'll second the vote fore T-Mobile.

        I've previously had AT&T TDMA service and Cingular TDMA and switched to T-Mobile (GSM) a year ago.

        They have been, by far, the best cellular company I've dealt with. Their customer service is great, as is their reception, pricing, phone choice (The T610 has excellent Bluetooth support).

        I just finished with my contract with them, but I really have no intention on switching.

    • I too will voice out my opinions against AT&T and in favor of T-mobile. T-mobile really does have fantastic customer service. AT&T was so bad for me I just decided to break contract with them and pay the 250$ fee. Service problems, reception problems, customer service problems, billing problems; you name it, they screwed it up. With T-mobile it's nice to know I'll still be on my phone company's network when I go to the EU, and if I come across any problems they will be just as helpful as they are h

    • AT&T/Cingular are the same company so you get to use both networks and have free roaming on T-Mobile. I even managed to send a picture message with no extra charge from Canada so go figure. In general, internet access from them is a penny per KB on the most basic plan and REALLY racks up is you use your phone to get on the internet. My powerbook lets me connect to a dialup ISP using my phone's voice mode so I use that even though it's a lot slower and requires a steady 75% or more of service. I get fre
  • I have a Nokia 7250i. A very nice phone, which lets you take colour photographs, with an infrared port. I can upload my contacts to my PC via the infrared port - works out of the box, modulo a bit of man page reading, under Debian. Can I upload my photos? Can I fuck. Can I send my photos to my computer via email, at 20p a throw? Why yes, I can.

    I wish someone who knew about these things could write an OBEX thingy to upload them. I know it is possible in theory - there is a closed source windows app that doe

  • I'm missing something. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 05, 2004 @01:15PM (#10163394)
    Let's examine the situation.

    - there's a hostile cell phone company
    - you continue to use them
    - you complain when they suck
    - you stick with them, despite their ignorance, but you then post "rewards" to fix their problems

    Umm. Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just switch cellular carriers? (Changing cell phone companies is not that hard to do!)
    • [quote]
      - there's a hostile cell phone company
      - you continue to use them
      - you complain when they suck
      - you stick with them, despite their ignorance, but you then post "rewards" to fix their problems
      [/quote]

      The primary function of a cell phone is...a phone! Verizon's service works pretty much everywhere with signal penetration inside buildings that other carriers can not provide. Least dropped calls...etc. As a final note, they pick up the phone on one ring when you call customer service.

      If you want a Cell
      • Actually, Sprint's push-to-talk is probably far superior to Nextel's, as well. Just looking at the service map for Nextel (one color = nationwide PTT, one color = local only PTT, one color = voice only, one color = roaming, most of the country = not covered) and comparing to Sprint's (one color = everything on your phone works, one color = roam voice only, one color = no service) .. HUGE difference.

        And on the plans in the price range that Nextel users usually use, the PTT function is included for free wit
        • Actually, Sprint's PTT is awful. We had the opportunity to test it out when the Nextel contract came up for bid; local Sprint rep sent us a few LG phones with full service plans for a couple weeks.

          It's obvious they just tacked it onto the existing phone-call infrastructure; you pick a phone number and hit the PTT button. After a delay of between 15 seconds and 2 minutes as it makes the phone call, you MIGHT get a connection and be able to transmit. Even when connected, there's a variable delay of 5-30 seco
          • CDMA Push-to-Talk is implemented through the 1X data service, it's like making a VoIP phone call.

            You can also connect one-to-many, not just one-to-one.

            Also, the only phones that do PTT for Sprint are made by Sanyo.

            The phones themselves allow you to talk almost immediatly upon pressing the button, and will buffer it while it makes the VoIP connection to the other end. Once the connection is established, as long as it doesn't idle for more than (i think) 10 minutes, then you have a nearly instant downlink

  • Is This a Problem? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by severoon ( 536737 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @01:17PM (#10163405) Journal

    I can see how this upsets people, and I think the best approach is to just advertise it and try to punish Verizon that way. Organize a kind of tech-geek boycott. But unfortunately, I don't think there's a legal problem with what they're doing.

    Should companies be allowed to sell their products hobbled? If we decide no for Verizon, then we also must go after Microsoft, whose baseline operating system is always the more advanced flavor. For instance, in Win 2000 Pro, many of the features of Server are present but disabled. Should we apply the same standard here and say that Pro must have all such features enabled? I'm not sure...

    As far as applying the DMCA to this situation of this contest...I don't see how any law can stop it. It can just force it underground, or force the perpetrators to come up with a flimsy cover story.

    • Verizon has no obligation to sell a cell phone with fully enabled bluetooth. They are a member of our free market economy and the products they sell should be up to their digression. Now, whether or not you buy that phone is YOUR choice.
    • The difference I see here, is that Microsoft, is not using the Server feature set as a selling point. Verizon, on the other hand, is implying that their phone DOES have certain features, because the same phone bought elsewheres does. In fact, even the manual claims the phone has these features (well I'm not sure about this exact case, but I know it is true in other cases)

      • I don't think Verizon is the one advertising these phone capabilities--it's Motorola making those claims, and that's the problem. I agree with you...as long as this is vocally pointed out on sites like this one, Verizon will hopefully take a hit. The bigger the hit, the better.

  • The sad thing is that as a faithful Verizon customer for three years, I can't give them enough money to get me a phone with fully functional, non-crippled Bluetooth. I travel a lot, and along with several other geeks in the company, we pay Verizon for their great network as opposed to taking the company's free Sprint phones with horrendous coverage. I preach the gospel of Verizon's great signal strength whenever a friend is thinking about dumping one of the GSM carriers, but they always turn their nose up
    • Agreed.

      Lets start a real bounty to hack any of Sanyo's Sprint phones to work on Verizon's network. (If you ever had a Sanyo phone, you know what I'm talking about.)

      -Electrawn
      • Until last month, when Verizon implemented a serial number lock system, that makes it so that they will only activate phones that they have already pre-approved, all you had to do was give them the serial number, and reprogram the Sanyo phone. Of course, it usually took some nasty social engineering tricks to get the MSL so you could reprogram the phone, but that's not all that difficult really.

        Anyway, it's not gonna happen anymore, unless you can find a way to change the ESN in the firmware of the Sanyo

    • Re:Take my money - please (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ElGuapoGolf ( 600734 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @02:38PM (#10163816) Homepage
      I don't get it: Verizon has rabidly faithful customers already. They do a great job with the high-speed data service. Why don't they go the last mile and carry a decent Bluetooth phone? It's not like I'm asking for it for free - I'll *give* them the money, they just won't take it....

      It's all about the extras. If they gave you a fully functional Bluetooth phone, with a functional OBEX profile, you wouldn't have to use their Get-It-Now service to send yourself the pictures you've taken using the camera phone you bought from Verizon. Could you imagine, getting your photos off your phone(which you paid for) for free? It'd almost make that .3 megapixel picture somewhat compelling. And I know you can do it with the transwhatever card that's in the phone, but imagine how nice it would be to do it wirelessly...

      But that's not all. If you had Java on the phone, instead of that redheaded stepchild BREW, you could use bluetooth to send yourself the games you've bought in the past for your older phones. And Verizon wouldn't make a penny! Could you imagine the horror of getting to use your old games and Verizon not making a penny out of that, other than the initial cost of selling you the game?

      But wait, there's even more! If you had multiple cellular phones, you could take a ringtone from off your fiance's phone and send it to yours! For free! Verizon wouldn't make a penny, except for the money they made when they sold you the ringtone to begin with. The horror.
    • If reception and features are a concern, and you are travelling in large metro areas. Get a V300 or V600, they have the new 850mhz band that gets you better reception in buildings then ANYONE else (Even in a basement in a building in SF where nobody got reception).

  • Why Verizon? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tyrr ( 306852 )
    Verizon is expensive, unfriendly and the phones they ancient.
    710 looks OK, but personally I'd take Nokia 6230 any day.
    GSM networks allow you to use state of the art phones of your choice and cost less.
    For mere 80$ I get 1000 minutes, free nights-weekends, free in-network calling, free WAP, unlimited SMS, unlimited access to Wi-Fi in almost every Starbucks, Borders, Kinko's. Beat that!
  • Instead,

    Of getting your panties all in a wad and wasteing a lot of time, just buy another phone/service/etc.

    You wallet speaks a lot more loudly than your hacking skills.

  • If someone is smart enough to hack the phone... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Go_Ask_Alex ( 459685 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @02:09PM (#10163676)
    ...then they should be smart enough not to waste their time and effort buying a crippled Moto V710 in the first place, or otherwise contributing to having more people buy the phones and becoming satisfied customers via a hack.

    Who would a hack serve? Those who will continue to support bad business practices and companies.

    For a comparable price one can find comparable "unlocked" GSM phones that have the original manufacturer's firmware, have all features enabled, and allow one to get service from any mobile company one chooses, often world-wide with the now commonplace GSM world phones.
    • Sure, but GSM makes you sound like you're talking in a wind tunnel, on the voice end, the data end isn't nearly as fast as CDMA 1X, until the whole GSM system with Cingular is upgraded to GSM over CDMA, and the whole amount of coverage in the U.S. is a piece of shit. *shrug*

  • Verizon's Expensive (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mean_Nishka ( 543399 ) on Sunday September 05, 2004 @02:36PM (#10163809) Homepage Journal
    Verizon is really all about nickel and diming the customer. Walk into any retail store and you can see many 'packages' to be added on to a normal account. They charge for everything beyond a typical phone call, even on the more premium accounts.

    I used to be a Verizon customer and switched to Sprint when the Treo 600 came out. I was expecting a decline in service quality, and was quite surprised the actual service was about the same.

    What I did get was far more bang for the buck. For around $110 US a month, I get 2000 peak minutes, unlimited nights and weekends which start at 7 p.m. (versus 9 for Verizon), unlimited picture and SMS messaging, unlimited data, including unlimited modem use (thanks PDANet! [junefabrics.com]), and a host of other features.

    Bottom line, I'm not sad I left Verizon.. At least with Sprint I know I won't be charged extra for something as simple as an SMS message or photo transmission.

  • There are people out there who would like a phone with but verizon wont allow one on their network (even if you want to pay full price instead of getting it in a package)

    Verizon is now on the list of "companies who think its better to screw the customer than it is to build up a good business"

    OTOH, how many telcos ARENT on that list... :)
  • I have spent 3500 bucks on services from Verizon over the last 2 years. They still would only give me the new Motorola v710 for 250 bucks with a new 2 year contract. Any other carrier would have given me a much better deal.

    The only way we are going to get Verizon to change is to stop buying Verizon.

    The reason I and other people have stuck with Verizon is that there network is the biggest and most complete BY FAR. Their customer service generally rocks too. Perhaps now with AT&T Wirless, and Cingluar

  • back in the day (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Stu22 ( 793796 ) on Monday September 06, 2004 @12:59AM (#10166655)
    I seem to remember an Apple CEO saying that the way to network Macs and PCs is with a floppy disk, much like the memory card for the phone. This was right before Apple almost went out of business. Verizon doesn't have a Jobs brand defribulator.

    Stu

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