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Programming IT Technology Entertainment Games

Video Games Need A Woman's Touch 177

hattan wrote to mention an AP article going around detailing one woman's frustration with the roles for women in games. From the article: "Tara Teich enjoys nothing more than slipping into the role of a female video game character. But the 26-year-old software programmer gets annoyed by the appearance of such digital alter egos as the busty tomb raider Lara Croft or the belly-baring Wu the Lotus Blossom of 'Jade Empire.' Don't even get her started on the thong-bikini babes that the male gunmen win as prizes in 'Grand Theft Auto,' which was sent to stores with hidden sex scenes left embedded on the discs by programmers. "
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Video Games Need A Woman's Touch

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  • by etymxris ( 121288 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:36PM (#13139039)
    No one's creative work "needs" anything. If you don't like what someone has made, then make your own. There's plenty of media and games out there I have no interest in, or that even downright annoy me. Do I say everyone should be making the types of games I like? No, different people have different tastes. I stick to the games I like, and others can do likewise.
    • I really don't see how it's a troll. They wouldn't make this stuff if it didn't sell. Make your games the way you want them, and let the market decide what we need more of.
    • No one's creative work "needs" anything. If you don't like what someone has made, then make your own.

      Thank You, I am glad the first post (or at least hightest rated first post) contains a element of sanity.

      As for Tara's comment about her hating Tomb Raider or GTA that great for her, but plenty of other people like the games the way they are (heck woman even, my wife likes em both). Woman are portrayed in video games like that because it sells games because people would rather see an attractive woman the
    • No one's creative work "needs" anything. If you don't like what someone has made, then make your own.

      Not only that, but if the society the game is revolved around is sexist, then the game damn well better be sexist as well. I'm referring to the "bikini trophies" for the male gunmen... well, if (I have no idea, I'm posting on Slashdot after all) gang society has majority male gunmen and slutty women as hos, then the game SHOULD have it that way.
    • Yeah sure. "Don't like this program? Program it yourself, noob!"

      Why does your answer remind me of those elitist uber-geek linux zealots? Anyway.

      There are consultants for lots of things. Why not have female consultants on game design?

      After all, the women don't have to program thousands of lines of code, they just can review the storyboard for certain scene and say: "Add this and that".

      What's the matter, big boy? Afraid a woman won't like how you're dressed?
      • There are consultants for lots of things. Why not have female consultants on game design?

        Duh. You missed the point. If a game company wants to make a game more palatable to women, they should hire someone who knows how; if a game company wants it more palatable to young men, they should also hire someone appropriate. Get the idea yet? Target demographic is the key.

        Most game companies don't hire Muslim consultants, taxi driver consultants or redheaded consultants.
  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dazedNconfuzed ( 154242 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:38PM (#13139055)
    Why, she asks, must women in video games always look like Las Vegas show girls?

    For the same reason the men look like action heros.

    • Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Vicissidude ( 878310 )
      No shit. Most of the guys buying these games will never have the same muscles of the characters in the game.

      It's a game, people. Someone's taking all this wayyy too seriously.
    • Re:Why? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by sgant ( 178166 )
      Really, I'm offended whenever I sit down and play a video game and my character is always some macho, buff Alpha-male with sweaty, glistening pecks and hard hard washboard abs, tight leather pants and boots, tasteful tattoos and with a face that looks like he doesn't take shit from anyone and he'll make them pay...oh yes, he'll make them ALL pay! MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!...cough...you get what I mean.

      Er...perhaps games are more fantasy than reality. Though in some games like Star Wars Galaxies you can modify your c
    • Funny, the Jade Empire game mentioned in the article has a few more realistic looking characters like this one [bioware.com]
    • Then again, male characters don't look like Captian Hero anymore. Guys have actually been toned down from muscle bound bruisers to more sleek assassin-like figures like Solid Snake and the main characters from Half-Life, Splinter Cell and others. Guys are less like actions heroes these days when you look at the scene. There's a few in which we're starting to look almost like pretty boys (Devil May Cry)

      Women, however, still have a pretty unrealistic template to work with in most games. Even if the proportio
    • Not sure about that.

      1. Men are the target audience for both showgirl women and action hero men. Most (not all) men are attracted to the showgirl body, and most (not all) women don't particularly care if a guy is built like Duke Nukem.

      2. Seeing an unrealistic buff action hero does not cause women to treat objects like men (to paraphrase the Dude).

      I'm not being prudish here. Have your sex. Just don't ignore the ways in which the objectification of women in video games, magazines, etc. contributes to ano

      • Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

        Just don't ignore the ways in which the objectification of women in video games, magazines, etc. contributes to anorexia and depression, not to mention the vanity and consumerism that have taken over the capitalist world.

        Self Esteem trumps all that. It's called SELF esteem, you have got to fight off the objectification, subjagation, humiliation, assumption, and criticism thrown at you by your environment yourself. Then all this becomes bullshit.

      • Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by drsmithy ( 35869 )
        I'm not being prudish here. Have your sex. Just don't ignore the ways in which the objectification of women in video games, magazines, etc. contributes to anorexia and depression, not to mention the vanity and consumerism that have taken over the capitalist world.

        I think you'll find the never-ending barrage of "Read about $CELEBRITY's amazing new diet", "Look just like $CELEBRITY", "How $CELEBRITY has her pre-baby body back", etc, etc in /female-oriented media/ has a hell of a lot more to do with it than a

      • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Vicissidude ( 878310 ) on Saturday July 23, 2005 @02:40AM (#13142626)
        From what I can see, women first objectify themselves long before men come into the picture. Girls are now fighting to wear makeup and skimpy outfits in elementary school, long before their parents or the boys take notice. It's all in competition with the other girls to outdo each other. Over time, that competition with the other girls, and eventually women, evolves to an advanced level where things like anorexia come into play.

        Historically, skinny wasn't a "look" until the common people had enough food to become fat. Even now, poor societies picture overweight women as more attractive than thin girls who can't afford enough to eat. As soon as everyone in our "rich" society was fat, the rich celebrities all became skinny to look different. Now thin is in and people are literally dying to become skinny.

        As far as I'm concerned, women can blame themselves just as much as men for their own problems. It's their own vanity to appear like the wealthy celebrities that are doing them in. Take some frickin' responsibility for your own life, please.
        • That's great advice but it takes a lot of maturity to understand that you are responsible for your own life (and the outcomes of the decisions you make!)

          Children (won't someone please think about them?) (and immature adults for that matter) are quite impressionable, and they tend to like the steaming material that the mass media shovels at them.

          So the real question, I think, is "How much responsibility does each of us have to ensure that the whole of society does not continue to perpetrate these values?".
          • You miss the point completely. Girls objectify themselves at a young age for their own vanity. In fact, they do it so universally across so many cultures that one wonders whether this is only due to nurture and not also nature. You can try teaching girls not to be vain, but then you're likely to be subverting their very desire, which brings more problems.

            As for "perpetuating values", a game is going to perpetuate some value. There's no way to get around it - even Pac Man perpetuated a value or two.
    • For the same reason the men look like action heros.

      You mean like Mario, Captain Olimar, Smith from Killer7, the guys from FF:CC? Not to mention games with non-human male characters like Rayman or the Oddworld characters: Even in those games, females are slender and sexy, while males can be all kinds of things. Look at Sega Soccer Slam, for example. All girls have big tits and are cute, while the male characters are fat, small, big, slim...

      That's the whole problem: There are all kinds of male character

    • How many hollywood hunks she drools over when she goes to the movies.

      Yeah men are often sexist, but women are too.
    • Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)

      by wheany ( 460585 )
      Actually, my sisters like Tekken because it has good looking guys in it.
  • Hooray... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ooPo ( 29908 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:38PM (#13139064) Homepage
    Yet another article on women in the games industry that contains no more information than a few rambling paragraphs about a random game player, who happens to be female, not enjoying what the industry has to offer.

    If you don't like the games, stop buying them. Vote with your dollars, people.

    How is this even news? Is it because she's female? Is that supposed to matter? Guys dislike crappy games, too.
    • You know what phrase I wish would die?

      Vote with your dollars.
      I hear it here all the time, in this case it doesn't even make sense, the dollars lost from her not buying a game aren't even worth the industry looking into. In fact the likely hood of the games industry even noticing the loss of the few women gamers who care about this is pretty slim. If they did notice it they probably wouldn't realize what caused the problem.

      • IF they don't notice the loss, then who cares?

        Seriously, the point of the gaming industry is to make money through entertaining people. It is not their job to make sure they present realistic images or to give everyone warm fuzzy happy feelings. If it is not a big enough deal to make a large impact in their sales, then oh well.
      • Re:Hooray... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by DAldredge ( 2353 )
        Judging from women's magazines most women either don't care or enjoy looking at attractive women.

        It hasn't hurt cosmo's numbers.
        • Judging from women's magazines most women either don't care or enjoy looking at attractive women.

          This is actually a really good point. I actually think articles like this are completely off - I do agree in general that there is a very male slant to most video games in the gameplay department but the portrayal of women is not the real problem. It's a red herring. Most guys don't want to play as fat slobs and I doubt most girls would want to play as your average overweight soccer mom either. "Unrealist
      • Re:Hooray... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Iriel ( 810009 )
        There's a reason the phrase doesn't make sense. It was created by the industry, for the industry. The companies and organizations that usually use it are the people who are snickering back stage because they know that they've already got the majority. They tell you to vote with your dollars because the people that will vote against them make no difference.

        That's just my two cents.
      • Re:Hooray... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ooPo ( 29908 )
        Its not that your vote isn't counting - its just that you're being outvoted. Stop whining because you didn't win... at least you still have your dollars. :)
    • A lot of games are rather gender inspecific. My girlfriend is quite into racing games and simulations, as well as some of the standard fun ones like SuperTux, etc that everyone can enjoy (did you know that SuperTux is available for windows now).
    • If you don't like the games, stop buying them. Vote with your dollars, people

      Women are voting with their dollars. But their dollars aren't being spent on Grand Theft Auto. They are going to politicians who would rein in developers like Rockstar.

  • by fool36 ( 864682 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:40PM (#13139080)
    see a fat woman with big hair and lots of tatoos?

    • "Trailer Park Girl" Only for XBOX!
    • A touch of realism would be nice. I'm getting tired of the enormous adolescent-fantasy boobs everywhere.
      • A touch of realism would be nice. I'm getting tired of the enormous adolescent-fantasy boobs everywhere.

        The unrealistic proportions I think are so far a function of the how primitive the graphics are- you had to make Lara exaggerated because you only had a handful of polygons to do it with on the PS1.

        Or even going back further to low-res 2d graphics, you'd have to do something like this to show a female:

        =
        ==
        =
        =

        And that's way unrealistic. Now, we can have thousands of polygons along with realistic skin t
    • Disclaimer: I'm a male

      and would she rather see a fat woman with big hair and lots of tatoos?

      Just because the writer of the article disapproves of Lara Croft and Wu doesn't mean that she wants to see them replaced with a 500-pound woman with big hair and lots of tattoos. That would be the complete opposite end of the spectrum. She just want them replaced with realistic looking women. You know, the ones that we see in everyday life. They don't have to have a watermelon-sized chest like Lara does. A

  • by line-bundle ( 235965 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:40PM (#13139082) Homepage Journal
    Daytime TV shows need a man's touch.
  • She kicks high.
  • She walks 15 hours a day and spends the other 3 fighting. She's wearing her world's equivalent of a sportbra. That's normal. Move on.
  • by imr ( 106517 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:42PM (#13139109)
    show that it's gamers who need a woman's touch.
  • Maybe females in games should all be as covered up as Samus Aran
    • Except for the fact that when you get the "best" endings, you're pretty much treated to a fan service image of Samus sans the armor. I could see there being a slight issue with that.
  • by EnronHaliburton2004 ( 815366 ) * on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:48PM (#13139162) Homepage Journal
    OSTG user statistics [ostg.com] (Including Slashdot).
    - 97% of OSTG readers are men
    - average age is 29

    Arguing about women in games on Slashdot is like a vegan arging about animal rights in a sausage factory.
  • ...i find it intersting that since the very late nineties to present day that softcore porn and the general glamourization of porn has really become mainstream in teenage society in the u.s. there is going to be an social revolution just opposite of the sixties in about 15 years. wait for it.
    • there is going to be an social revolution just opposite of the sixties in about 15 years. wait for it.

      I think you have it backwards. The porn fetish is because of the taboo. Compare with western Europe. Most of the countries are much more sexually liberal, with sex education starting at an early age. The result? Fewer teenage pregnancies, no association of simple nudity with sex, and fewer problems with sex in general.

      In short, it would be difficult for America to go even further backwards unless they

      • how is it going backwards to respect women instead trating them as objects and sex slaves? i agree that if we had better sex education things would be better. there is a difference between healthy sexuality and pornography.

        last time i was in europe i didnt see any 12 year old girls wearing 'porn *' shirts.

        • last time i was in europe i didnt see any 12 year old girls wearing 'porn *' shirts.

          Exactly. Because there's less taboo, it's less desirable. Kids (particularly teenagers) love to do things that shock adults, it's what lets them figure out the boundaries of what's acceptable. No taboo, not interested.

          My mother played some serious mind games on me as a kid - she'd offer to sign me off sick from school whenever I wanted. So of course I rebelled by studying hard...hmm...easily manipulable ;)
  • This again? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:49PM (#13139178) Journal
    Geez, we almost got through a week without a "The game industry needs to ______ to attract more female gamers!" article, but Zonk steps in at the last minute with another one...

    It's a shame that none of the people who know exactly how to attract female gamers bother to actually, y'know, make games. (With the one exception of Brenda Laurel, who mostly succeeded in issuing lots of press releases about how smart she is before blowing through all her investors' money.)

  • Don't even get her started on the thong-bikini babes that the male gunmen win as prizes in 'Grand Theft Auto'

    You'd think they could find enough sexism in games without making stuff up.
  • Let's hope that putting video games on ritalin and sending them through sensitivity training isn't half as destructive to gaming as it's been to Hollywood.
  • For a good rant (Score:5, Insightful)

    by linuxwrangler ( 582055 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:52PM (#13139213)
    Don't even get her started on the thong-bikini babes that the male gunmen win as prizes in 'Grand Theft Auto,' which was sent to stores with hidden sex scenes left embedded on the discs by programmers.

    There is a funny rant [sfgate.com] about this in today's sfgate.com (There's Sex In My Violence! What's this lame soft-core porn doing in my ultraviolent "Grand Theft Auto"? I am outraged!).

  • "which was sent to stores with hidden sex scenes left embedded on the discs by programmers"

    and we all KNOW absolutely ALL porgrammers are... ya know, male.
  • by J23SE ( 107309 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @04:55PM (#13139241)
    Wow... And just as we thought Hot Coffee was dead.

    This 'feminist' attitude in particular annoys the hell out of me. How is it that consentual sex with a *girlfriend* in a game is automatically considered demeaning to women?

    Does 'feminism' imply that all mention of sex should be eradicated? Because somehow males only use it for their pleasure or to demean women? Sorry to break it to these 'feminists', but women enjoy sex too.

    And on top of that, the amount of time and effort it takes to get with any of the women in GTA for 'hot coffee' is significantly higher than what it takes to learn to fly, defeat a drug ring, and take over half a city. Real life women are usually far easier.

    Skewed attitudes about sex do exist in videogames, but the article seems to be grabbing at popularity here. Maybe instead of getting on the bandwagon and producing a knee jerk response to the 'awful sex' in GTA the author should actually think about what he or she is implying.

    End rant.. that just pissed me off.
    • And besides, in the Hot Coffee clip, there's an onscreen message saying "nice guys finish last". See, the developers care about the women, too!
    • How is it that consentual sex with a *girlfriend* in a game is automatically considered demeaning to women?

      Actually in this case it is even more annoying because the female interviewees in the article don't mention the GTA sex mini-game, it's just insinuated that if they did know about it they would be opposed. Reread this portion of bang-up objective journalism from the AP:

      Don't even get her started on the thong-bikini babes that the male gunmen win as prizes in "Grand Theft Auto," which was sent to

  • What's with this onslaught of "there's not enough female programmers" or "I don't like the portrayal of women in video games" stories? Why is it "important" that we have more women programmers? I have no problem with it either way, as people should be judged based on performance, but if programming doesn't interest women, why is that being portrayed as some sort of failure by the industry? I've said it before and I'll say it again: men and women are different, they have different abilities, inclinations,
  • by hattan ( 869918 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @05:00PM (#13139300)
    Many of the shows on TV contain scenes that contain sexual situations, even if they don't show much skin its still suggestive. Also women on TV are often dressed in skimpy outfits, why is it 100 times worse if its in a game?
  • Samus gets no love (Score:3, Insightful)

    by XenoRyet ( 824514 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @05:01PM (#13139315)
    I just have one thing to say: If Lara Croft gets used as the first and typical example of a female video game heroine, I'm gonna start slapping people. If you have a discusion about this and don't mention that Samus Aran was in fact the first, and exemplifies everything that's right with a video game heroine, you need to give up your gamer licence immediatly.
  • Should be "Video Gamers Need A Woman's Touch".
  • by LinuxPoultergist ( 899564 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @05:09PM (#13139402)
    Woman lucy = new Woman();
  • I was misquoted (Score:5, Informative)

    by TaraTeich ( 901950 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @05:11PM (#13139410)
    In the midst of a long conversation with a reporter about being a woman programmer and a woman gamer, he posed the question, how do you feel about the representation of women in games? I responded that I don't know why woman have to be so scantily clad, but it doesn't stop me from playing the games.

    I had lots of good things to say about games. I am a gamer, I love games, including Jade Empire, and I never made a single comment about the portrayal of women in GTA. Note he says, "Don't get her started on..." He didn't get me started. It never came up. I thought the interesting part of the article was going to be about the challenges of breaking into a difficult industry, and the challenges of broadening the appeal of the industry beyond the hardcore gamer.

    I didn't just use The Sims as an example of accessible, non "male oriented" games. I cited several examples to show that there's a public misconception that there are no other types of games out there. Look at Amplitude, Pikmin, Karaoke Revolution, look at the growing online gaming sector. My hope was to show that the game industry is NOT in need of a woman's touch. It's in need of better publicity. This article just reinforces the stereotypes.

    Don't believe everything you read.
    • Re:I was misquoted (Score:2, Interesting)

      by kaptron ( 850747 )
      That is a shame... reminds me of the article [slashdot.org] that was linked a while back, where John Davison described an experience going on a TV show where they were supposed to give him time to talk about the future of games, and instead the show was centered entirely on violence, and the role of video games in violent behavior, etc... and he ended up walking off the set.

      And like he said in the article, about his reason why he didn't want to talk about violence and video games: "that's been done to death, it's bor
    • Mod parent up, hint: look at the name of the poster. And it's not "insightful", it's "informative".

      I was going to post about what Tara said in her interview like this:

      She should realize that beatiful bodies are great assets to women. It's a great thing to have if you want to influence people the way you want them to be influenced.

      If she's isn't that hot and is jealous of the virtual women then I disagree with her.

      If she's disagreeing with the stereotypes because she's morally against men being manipulat
      • "She should realize that beatiful bodies are great assets to women. It's a great thing to have if you want to influence people the way you want them to be influenced.

        If she's isn't that hot and is jealous of the virtual women then I disagree with her."

        You're kidding, right? The last time I saw this sort of attitude was in an old 70s documentary. I thought people had moved on in the western world.
        • What do you mean exactly?

          Just to elaborate on what my opinion is on this matter: If a woman is attractive I'd say good for her, you'll probably go far in this world. Statistics prove me right.

          The part where I said: "If she's isn't that hot and is jealous of the virtual women then I disagree with her."

          Was not really thought out well, a more accurate text version of what I wanted to say would be:
          Realize that hot looks are big weapons in the hands of women. You should celebrate the fact that women have this
  • So, is this the future [planetgamecube.com]?
  • the 26-year-old software programmer gets annoyed by the appearance of such digital alter egos as...the belly-baring Wu the Lotus Blossom of 'Jade Empire.'

    So play Scholar Ling. Duh.

  • Don't even get her started on the thong-bikini babes that the male gunmen win as prizes in 'Grand Theft Auto,' which was sent to stores with hidden sex scenes left embedded on the discs by programmers. "

    I wonder if there wouldn't have been such an uproar over this game if the media hadn't been reporting on it every 15 freaking minutes. The mention of this seemed suspiciously superfluous to the content of the article (i.e. a "woman's touch" in video games).

  • by Fr05t ( 69968 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @07:49PM (#13140763)
    "...'Grand Theft Auto,' which was sent to stores with hidden sex scenes left embedded on the discs by programmers. "

    Get the FUCK over it! God anyone else tired of this yet!?! Everyday I'm half tempted to just stop reading "gaming" news. If I wanted drama I'd go by a ticket to a play!
  • by MiceHead ( 723398 ) on Friday July 22, 2005 @08:44PM (#13141069) Homepage
    If oversexualizing female characters has brought the industry more male gamers, the obvious solution to the problem of an underrepresented female gamer population is to oversexualize male characters.

    Being an independent developer, we have an enormous amount of freedom in how we can portray our in-game characters. In our most recent action title, we made sure to portray male and female characters in a fairly realistic fasion. The result was that a major gaming magazine chided us for a female protagonist that wasn't busty enough. Apparently our undersexualized portrayal of women is a turn-off for males.

    Similarly, we've noticed that for our puzzle games (where we portray no people), women make up roughly half of our customers. This drops way down for our action titles (where we do portray people). I must guess, then, that our undersexualized portrayal of men in these games has been a turn off for women. As such, starting with our next title, we will implement the Five Foot Phallus rule.

    Let me explain.

    • The Five Foot Phallus - All major male characters will possess a phallus at least five feet in length.
    • Minor Characters may have phalli that are 3-4 feet long, which is closer to the human average, so nobody can complain about that.
    • Gameplay - It should be noted that such a member is soley for aesthetic presentation, and will not affect gameplay. Players will not be able to walk up to enemies and beat them to death with their enormous genitalia. This only goes along with the industry trend, since in most video games, you can't use a female character's ridiculous bosom to suffocate opponents.
    • Simulation - We're currently researching how we might most naturally present this, and are looking into licensing various engines for rigid-body physics.
    I'm convinced that this move will bring the female demographic for our action games up in no time.

    What do you think?
    • Well, you're on the right track. A couple points though:

      1. Why just the phallus? We need great big balls to go along with old Godzilla.
      2. Simulation will need to be updated to include the bouncing big balls.
      3. Gameplay. This should be improved on both sides. Why not suffocate the baddie with your super breasts?
      4. Five feet might just not be long enough. I'm sure Duke Nukem would come out with an eight footer at least.
  • Let's settle this, right here, once and for all.

    How many women are reading this? Three? Four? Oh well, it'll have to be enough...

    How many of you consider yourself beautiful? A perfect body?

    Would you like a perfect body, if you don't have one?

    Would you show it off if you had one?

    Given the answers to those questions, I'd bet that most women would much rather play Lara Croft than a more "feminist" character. I mean, be honest, ladies -- wouldn't you rather be a hottie with a gun than an ugly, clumsy
  • Why is it that every time the topic comes up (i.e.: often), there're a couple comments that make it look like the only alternative to big-boobed, very-young-adult-looking dolls was another extreme, namely fat and mousey (and therefore ugly, it would seem)?

    I suspect that if that's really how these people think, they're going to have a hard time outside where a lot of people actually manage to be attractive in their own ways (including some whose balance centres are not located in their breasts).

    Is ther
  • by BenjyD ( 316700 )
    My girlfriend loves GTA3:Vice City. It's a bit disturbing watching her hunt down pedestrians with a baseball bat. Of course, she can't navigate at all and has to keep stopping to ask me for directions...
    • Heh, your girlfriend sounds like my fiance. It's almost scary just how much fun she has mowing down people in cars, or beating old ladies to death with a baseball bat (yes, she actually targets old ladies specifically). I even mentioned the hot coffee mod to my fiance and told her about the contents of it (I've only seen a video of it as we don't yet have San-Andreas) and she just laughed and said she wanted to see it.

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