Getting Credit for Programming Accomplishments? 148
An anonymous reader writes "I am a college student new to corporate culture. For the last few weeks, I have been working on a very large project: revamping our customer service website with tons of new tutorials and information. Recently, I got an e-mail forwarded from my supervisor of improvements that HIS supervisor requested. I am fine with compliments and complaints about my work. However, I realized in the e-mail that my supervisor took credit for the development of this content. I have been under his direct supervision in this whole process; much of the new content was his idea that I ended up implementing. Is it out of line to request that in the future I get mentioned for my work?"
Pretty normal (Score:5, Insightful)
There are some companies out there that have the generosity to credit their programmers (heck, this is why Activision was formed) in their software, but not nearly the majority of them and especially if its not an in house application.
Although Pretty Normal He Can Change It (Score:4, Insightful)
You're in a position where your boss depends on you. And he's promoting it. Who cares what management thinks. Is your paycheck sufficient? If not, just wait until a few weeks before the next big delivery and tell your boss you've found another job offering you what you think you should get paid. Since he's on the hook, he'll probably try to keep you happy.
You could ask him to mention your name to the big wigs but what would that get you, really? Are you under some impression that your ability in software development will move you up the chain? Because I've noticed that's not really what does it at most companies.
No, my suggestion to you would be to keep chugging along and if nothing else, put it on your resume confident you can back what you put on there. Then expand your horizons and call in sick a few days for the sake of a few interviews. If you have no other options, you are probably forced to play this symbiosis of your manager needing you and you needing him despite your perception he adds nothing.
Whatever turns out, it sure is great experience. If you are certain you can do the hardcore development and provide the functionality your middle management provides, have you thought about starting your own company? That's an option I think more and more about everyday
Re:Although Pretty Normal He Can Change It (Score:5, Insightful)
Should the submitter have been given some credit? Possibly, depending on the email and its tone. For most people two levels above the new guy, they just don't care who he is yet and don't want to hear about him unless he's done something noteworthy (which this certainly isn't -- it's his job). Most likely the supervisor didn't even think to mention the submitter's name because, well, there's nothing TOO mention. "My ideas were implemented, the project's done, anonymous coward (the new guy) built it and sally went ahead and photocopied this to send along to you. Also, we couldn't have done it without John at Starbuck's serving us coffee."
Expect credit when you've done something noteworthy, otherwise you'll need to stick around and get noticed for consistently doing a good job. It's not as fast as having the CEO be wowed by a memo, but if your supervisor starts to rely on you for a good job, then the guy above him will start to notice you and suggest you for promotion.
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I'm the asker, I know it's hard to trust ACs but I speak the truth (see my other response below).
To clarify, he just told me "make tutorials for x, y, and z program." I then went on to go through the process, take screenshots, and carefully explain everything just in case the user was very new at this. I agree that it's not worth it to ask for the credit, I got some really good answers in this discussion that helped me see the bigger picture. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't merely translating a W
Re:Although Pretty Normal He Can Change It (Score:4, Insightful)
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Danger! (Score:4, Insightful)
More importantly, he doesn't want them to care who he is yet.
Trust me, new hires do not (or should not, if they have any sense) want to come to the attention of people two or more levels above them. Bad things will come of it.
It never plays out the same way, but it always turns out bad for the new hire.
Trust me, you do not want upper management to know who you are yet.
--MarkusQ
P.S. There's an old saying "Whether the pitcher hits the rock or the rock hits the pitcher, it bodes ill for the pitcher."
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Because in the normal flow of things he's not supposed to get noticed, so that would mean by definition that he was out of the normal flow of things. It's set up that way because upper management simply can't keep tabs on all the junior staff; that's what middle managers are for.
But upper management does occasionally take notice of someone at the bottom of th
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Here's a su
Yikes (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing like playing poker with your career. I had a coworker who pulled this bluffing stunt only to have the boss reach out to shake his hand and wish him luck at the new job. The guy thought he was an invaluable software developer and had a rude awakening. He finally got a job 8 months later at a help desk.
Re:Yikes (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only that, but even if the supervisor does decide to keep you, the tenor of the working relationship has changed, and not for the better.
(and if you're working relationship with your boss is already so bad that you don't care if it gets a little worse, then I can guarantee that the "or else" form of salary negotiation won't work in the first place.)
You won't quite be trusted-- which makes you less likely to end up on high profile projects, and makes you less attractive for promotion.
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An ethical manager would wish the employee luck in his new job, not try to trick him into staying under false pretenses. Just because it might help the shareholders in the short term doesn't make it right. Besides, good employees, seeing a fellow employee treated that way (even if he wasn't the greatest employee) would see that their manager is unethical, and that that could affect them in many other ways, so they'd bail out as
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I don't think the lesson is "don't rock the boat." The lesson was that he has a lot to learn about reading people and needs to continue to learn about himself.
Now he has an opportunity to learn and prove himself at a help desk job. Who's to say that isn't a better place for him at the moment?
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The problem isn't that he lied. It is that he wasn't worth as much as he thought. What I meant by "reading people" is that he should have gone into negotations with a good feeling for what he was worth to the organization in the eyes of his boss. He would get that from "reading" his boss.
It seems clear he wasn't in a position to negotiate a higher salary.
Besides that, he could have made up lie #2 abo
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Re:Yikes (Score:4, Insightful)
But, entry level and bad programmers often cost less per hour, but even that is not a given.
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Suppose the only advice I could give if you are big on credit, is contribute to open source, or make something big yourself and release it
Re:Pretty normal (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Go to work for the money. This "greater good", "for the company" bullshit is why so many idiot software people complain about working 80 hours a week for a 40 hour a week salary.
Don't fool yourself. The company will cut you loose in the blink of an eye when it's in their financial interests.
Working in a corporation is not about "the greater good", it's about making money.
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Working in a corporation is not about "the greater good", it's about making money.
Agreed, but they aren't mutually exclusive goals. Working for the good of the company is, ultimately, what you're getting paid to do. Someone who works for the good of the company is going to have higher wages, better job security, and a higher chance of promotion. If these things don't matter to you, then that's fine. If they do, then working for the greater good is the way to do it.
As for working 80 hours a week for a 40 hour a week job, well, perhaps they expected to work 80 hours a week and factore
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Re:Pretty normal (Score:4, Insightful)
Working an 80 hour week at 40 hour pay is an example of a pathological case, though with the diminishing returns that come with an excessive workweek, I have to wonder whether this is really a good idea for the organization as well.
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80
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No. A good company treats its employees well because it's in the companies best interest to retain good staff. Training new employees is expensive and its cheaper, to a point, to make the existing employees happy so they don't leave. A good employee does his best because he needs to make sure he's worth retaining.
Unle
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To make the remaining employees less likely to leave. When a lot of people get laid off, a lot of the remaining employees will quit out of fear they're going to get laid off soon. If you find a new job and quit, it removes the uncertainty and you don't have to worry about it.
Did they lay off every single person in the company? I'm guessing they didn't. I'm also guessing a large percentage of the remaining employees thought "Man, even when they lay people off, thi
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Exactly. They still had the entire rest of the company to motivate.
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Re:Pretty normal (Score:5, Informative)
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If you don't get credit for your accomplishments how can you expect to be fairly evaluated or fairly compensated? You can't.
Agreed! A person doesn't have to be fussy, demanding, or annoying about it, but at least mentioning what your contributions to the company have been will keep your peers and superiors from wondering whether you've actually been doing anything at all. They won't often just notice on their own, especially with regard to small contributions. Even worse, they might be under the impression that one of your peers did that work, or even fail to notice that the work has been done! A great way to do this is to
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Re:Pretty normal (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, really! Don't work for the money, or the recognition - do it for the Company and the Greater Good!
Why is it the staunch capitalists of the world insist that businesses should be subject to little or no regulation, doing whatever they can to make a buck, yet an employee who adopts such an attitude is told they they have a poor "work ethic," and that all the good little sheep just shut up, keep their heads down, and work longer and longer hours without added compensation, while the guys at the top pay themselves more and more while cutting benefits and jobs, all in the name of cost savings? The worst of them even run their companies into the ground, losing tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, while still getting paid millions from their golden parachutes? Seriously - what the fuck? When did this become A-OK with the general public?
I wonder how many of them realize how much they sound exactly like communists when they start going on about doing working for the "greater good." How is pointless self-sacrifice in the name of the Almighty Dollar any better than pointless self-sacrifice in the name of The Party? I know, I know... "Government is evil." Well, America's government is entirely run by people from big business now. Everything is being privatized, and the distinction between government and big business is almost non-existent at this point. So someone's going to have to remind me again how government is evil while big business is perfection incarnate.
What the original poster needs to do is get the hell out of corporate America. Believe it or not, there are other ways of making a living.
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I knew a guy at my previous job, Bob, who was the pillar of the team. This guy knew everything about our system (much better than the official architect), could understand the root cause of bugs "on first sight" (but was unfortunately blind, not that it prevented him from having a very active and pleasant social life) and spent half of his time reviewing our designs and code, helping everyone of us a lot. His annual review: 1 week late on one of his several projects (actually caused by a supplier), 0
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Your perspective sounds a lot like the old line thrown around here a lot "If you don't like Prog
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Most people who are good at technical jobs are good at them because they don't have to deal with the distraction of managerial tasks.
That's why technical people that start businesses hire managers.
To suggest that to make a halfway decent living, you not only have to have the technical skills *but also* the business skills *and* the financial means to start your own company--how do you propose that one achieves this? It's simply not an option for the vast majority.
Declaring options impossible is the primary means of discouraging people from finding creative ways to accomplish this. OF COURSE IT'S POSSIBLE! It's a lot more work than driving back and forth to the same cubicle day after day, and you have to start that work in poverty and frustration when you lack the financial means, but (here's the trick): there's nothing restricting anyone to use a traditional business model, traditional goals, or trad
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In a word ... (Score:2, Redundant)
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Resource (Score:5, Insightful)
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And hiding in the closet is a good way to never get any in the first place.
Obviously the guy needs to find some middle way, but it's going to make more than one project for him to figure it out. Maybe he's got a good boss who will remember that he's a good worker and assign him increased responsibilities with a proportionally increased reward. Or maybe he's got a shitty boss that will remember him as a good slave and will assign him increased respo
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Anyone who deletes names in order to steal credit is a thief. And the only person worse than a
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It's not out of line... but think it through. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I know it's hard to trust an AC but I am the original asker.
I think you jumped to conclusions with my question. I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I definitely don't expect 1m stock options. However, I am only getting paid $7 an hour for this work. So I am looking for ways to move up in my current work and get more money, as well as looking at other employment options. I never actually asked my boss for the recognition either, the responses here helped me get the big picture and realize it's an eve
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If you stay with this job, they'll eventually promote you to a $10/hour position, then give you a 2% raise.
Programmers should be making $17/hour minimum, even webmaster "programmers".
Well... (Score:5, Informative)
Out of line? Maybe... it depends on your corporate culture. I would never make the suggestion at my current employer, but YMMV.
Generally, though, it doesn't make any sense to do so. Even if you're successful in getting your supervisor to mention you, his supervisor is more than likely going to response with "Who?" or "That's nice..." or something equivalent.
In my relatively short career, I've learned to appreciate recognition when it comes by, but to never expect it.
You're part of a team now (Score:5, Interesting)
Your manager knows who did the work, and if he's any kind of a decent manager, he'll reward you for it, although the reward may not be readily apparent immediately. Perhaps when your manager moves up (partially because you made him look good), he'll remember that you're a dependable employee who produces quality work, and he'll bring you up with him, or put in a good word for you to take over the department he's vacating. Hell, maybe the guy quits to go somewhere else and ends up taking you with him.
If you are a good and dependable worker, and especially if you show you are more concerned with making the company better than you are with your own short-term gain, then you will go far. If you show yourself to be the kind of guy who constantly whines about not getting enough credit, you'll be kept down and eventually forced out. Don't be that guy.
Re:You're part of a team now (Score:4, Insightful)
And that pretty much sums it up. You're a recent grad, so it's not entirely silly that you even had to ask. But really, this ought to be common sense.
As a general rule-of-thumb, when in Rome... etc. Watch your coworkers. If they do something and they receive a favorable response from management, it's probably safe to duplicate what they did. Assuming you're also well-liked. Otherwise, wait until you're well-established before doing anything even remotely risky. And if you have to ask, "Am I well-established yet?" Yeah. Not yet. You'll know it when you are.
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Work for a smaller company, (Score:5, Insightful)
There are disadvantages to this mind you. If everyone recognises each others input then if you screw up you'll find it hard to pass the buck (technically this is also an advantage because noone else can either). Typically your job will pay a little less and not be as secure either, though in the current economic climate noone is all that well paid or safe. You'll also find it's always you working late at a small company simply because there's noone else to do it.
I work (well, 'play' would be closer..
The other advantage of working for a tiny company is that everyone can have a really impressive title. I'm "Head of Production". It impresses all the girls.
Girls? Girls? Hey.. come back.
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I see the CEO walking around; he knows my name (came to my desk, introduced himself, and chatted for about 15 minutes within 2 weeks of my arrival). I sit in meetings with another C-level
Welcome to the Corporate World (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to give advice to you based on you being a fresh graduate: I'd have different advice for someone who's been in the corporate world for a few years.
My suggestion to you is three-fold:
1) Wait a year and get a feel for the corporate culture before you do anything to get visibility and recognition further up the food chain.
2) If there are other people on your team that *do* manage to get credit for their work with the higher-ups, watch them closely and see how they do it.
3) If you are truly excellent, your work will stand out eventually anyway. Again: wait a year and see what your reputation is at that point before you start promoting yourself. You may end up having very little promoting to do.
Yes your out of line. (Score:5, Insightful)
So your boss decided what needed to be done, how it should be done, and picked you to do it. He then took credit for it. Gee imagine that.
You work for him and you did what he said to do. Yes it is his credit to take. If you did a crummy job he would take the heat and then fire you but he might still loose his job if you did a bad enough job and he approved it.
Any credit you get will be from him. That is the way it really is supposed to work. If you do an extraordinary job then he may decide that are worth praising to his boss.
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Re:Yes your out of line. (Score:4, Insightful)
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I wish I had mod points for this comment, I'd mod it up.
As being in a "project lead" position at my small company, I determine how projects go and have the two lower-level engineers implement my ideas. They come to me with questions and I guide them on where to go next. They come up with their own good ideas, but for the most part, the design is mine. Shouldn't I get credit for my desig
verbal recognition not all its cracked up to be (Score:2)
welcome to the corporate pyramid scheme.
Words of wisdom from Fight Club (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Words of wisdom from Fight Club (Score:5, Interesting)
You have to realize that someday you will die. Until you know that, you are useless.
Put your name on it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Somewhere in the code, comment what you did and when, including your name. In a number of companies (including the one I work for), this is required for traceability for changes. If you're company is using any form of version control, it's a good bet that this will make sure your work can always be traced back to you. If you don't end up with some credit/raise/bonus/something by the end of the year, you can always point to this and ask why.
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I suggest going beyond just putting your name in the code. Put your name on anything you produce or touch. If you don't put your name on a document, then you are communicating that you are happy to let others take the responsibility and credit for the work you have done. If you put your name on the work you've done, then you are showing that you are willing to be accountable for the quality of your work and that you want credit for your accomplishments.
You may still find that your work is taken without
what is your job? (Score:2)
Not that important (Score:2)
Yes, it is out of line (Score:2)
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India & $10 an hour (Score:2, Informative)
There must be talented web developers over there, but I have never run across any of them in any project I've been associated with.
Instead we've gotten back code that included ( unapproved ) javascript libraries with CC non-commercial licenses ( did I mention they were working on corporate tools ), sometimes with all the licensing and identifying comments removed... but method names and file names
PHB et. al. (Score:1)
Good points here (Score:3, Informative)
I am the original asker. I know it's hard to trust ACs but I speak the truth :)
I want to clarify this has nothing to do with programming, it's adding tutorials etc. to a website. The programming thing must have been added by editors.
Many have mentioned how he would take the heat if something bad happened under his supervision. I have definitely seen him do this and can recognize the tradeoff a lot better now. I see what you all mean, my recognition is eventual promotion/raise from my direct supervisor, not some guy who's seen me twice reading my name in an e-mail. However, 7 bucks an hour for this work seems kinda small but that's another story :)
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Another thing to consider is that you are picking up some (hopefully) beneficial skills to further your career. Not just technical skills, but some business skills and learning how office politics work.
Remember those things (as well as a the bad) when you look for another job. You can try to figure out if your new place will be a better fit for you during the interview process. You don't have to ask the manager if he's a glory-hog, but perhaps you can ask the developers who interview you how appreciate
In the long run is he going to help you? (Score:1)
Either way, I would keep complaining about it to a minimum and only at appropriate moments. Managers have avoided whiners even if they have talen of von Neumann. Change
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Should have read closer
Easy way to take credit back subtly... (Score:2)
Piece of cake - Just ask the higher-up for clarification on a few points. You could even argue (humbly, if you like your job) one point by clarifying why you chose to implement it the way you did as opposed to the requested change.
In the bigger picture, though - Does it really matter? If not a major project for the company as a whole, the gratitude of your immediate boss (and the fact that you got pai
Ever heard the term "code monkey" (Score:2)
asdf (Score:1)
That's how it works, everywhere! (Score:1)
The one who gets the $$ is the big manager, for all the little employs like me and you, that's how it works.Compliment from your supervisor's supervisor should occur once in a while, but for doing extreamly unique job.
Goodluck!
I dont see it (Score:2, Insightful)
The ideas and solutions are what get people noticed and praised, what you did is no different than sending the spec off to India and having them churn it out. What you did is no different than a McBurger flipper making tha cheesburgers for the manager, why exactly do you deserve praise? You kids these days, unbelievable. Your paid to do your job, if you want praise try comi
Reality is here (Score:1)
Get used to it. Managment have its own rules and, with a very few exceptions, they live in a different world. You may get promoted if you do your job fine, and you might get promoted really fast if you excel doing it but the really high ranks are usually given to friends, sons, cousins and so.
There's nothing bad with that (apart form the unfairness of it all and all that shit), I personally like programming too much to give it up for a "management job" (I wouldn't
Ask your supervisor (Score:1)
If you don't get a satisfactory answer, stick with it for at least a year. Either you'll get a satisfactory answer you want from elsewhere, you'll get it from him eventually, he will be replaced, or it may become obvious you need to look for an internal transfer or a job elsewhere.
By the way, it may take time, but those who steal credit from others eventually get found
I've heard an old saying... (Score:4, Funny)
about seeking the praise of others.
Getting public praise is like pissing your pants: everyone around you can see it happening, but only you can feel the warmth.
Something to consider when asking yourself how hard you want to press for this.
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However, the corollary is:
Getting karma is like soiling your pants: no one wants to see it.version history (Score:1)
Corporate Culture... (Score:1)
Never expect credit for good work unless you "own" the work. If you "own" the work, then you should get credit.
What's to "own"? Easy. Ask these questions.
Does he code also? (Score:1)
If you still can't interpret it this way, then find another boss.
Painting (Score:1)
Track Content Revision (Score:1)
advice from a 9 year old (Score:1)
Heh (Score:5, Insightful)
BOSS:
BIG BOSS: Ah, good, very nice.. hm, this looks excellent. Good work, Johnson. I'll show the executives at tomorrow's meeting.
BOSS: Thank you.
And at tomorrow's meeting, it'll go like this:
BIG BOSS: And then last week we completed this project here, so that should increase revenue synergy paradigms across end-to-end B2B logistical e-markets.
EXECUTIVE: Great work, we'll announce it in the press release next week. Nicely done, Smith.
BIG BOSS: Thank you.
You get the point? Credit always goes to the person who finally presents it to the next link in the chain, which makes sense, as that person is also usually the one who masterminded the project and managed it to completion. It's a given that he didn't do it all by himself and that there were people under him who did most of the actual grunt work; everyone's aware of it but it isn't necessary to declare each and every individual.
It'd be like a military commander getting accolades from his commanding officer about some victory or other. The commander accepts it on behalf of everyone -- he doesn't need to name each and every damn grunt under his command, even though they were all instrumental in helping to win.
Relax, man. It doesn't matter who got credit for it to the higher-ups, who probably have no idea who you are anyway. Your boss knows what you did, and when it comes time to ask for a raise or whatever, he's the one you're going to be asking, and he'll remember.
(If you'd actually be asking someone above him, same deal. You can still put the project into your "List of good things I've done" when asking whoever and nobody will question you -- or if they want to check, your boss will confirm that yes, you were on that project.)
Mod parent up! (Score:2)
Your manager's manager usually won't have a true picture of who deserves credit, and would (wisely) abstain from doing so in most situations - he'd give you credit if there were really exceptional things achieved (thus, rarely, probably less than once a year for him, or it's not exceptional), and even the
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Though the "big boss" was not impolite, it was obviously pointless to bring my employee along since the guy didn't even get so much as a 3 second glance. You just need to understand that they can't know EVERYONE at those leve
My Take (Score:5, Insightful)
There are lots of replies to this thread and I just noticed it now, so I guess I'm late the the party. Let me offer my take. I've been out of college doing a programming job for 2 years now.
Is it normal? It all depends on the person. I've done things I thought were relatively simple or not with a lot of praise that my boss has promoted to others/superiors as great work by me. This is both things I thought up and implemented, and things that I was requested to do. I have done other things that I thought were great (including big/obvious things system users noticed) that nothing was said about. The pattern is the same with other people who are above me but not my boss. That's just the way things are.
But there are some people who are like that. We have one in our company, and as the size of the company you work for grows over 1 person, the probability of running into one starts to approach a sure thing.
Good ideas mismanaged, bad ideas implemented when much simpler ideas would have worked better, boldly taking credit for other people's work while they are standing there, covering up their mistakes as someone else's fault (bonus points for lying and saying they caught the error and fixed it when it was their fault).
You'll see it all. It's mostly a personality thing. Depending on tons of things this happens. Your boss may have deserved credit over you in one circumstance for thinking of the idea or great management. You may have deserved the credit. It could be neither of you. You just have to learn to accept this kind of stuff. If you think it's being done on purpose and to take advantage of you... just learn to accept it. We (at my office) except that kind of behavior out of various people (both internal and external) so it doesn't bother us. If someone does it, it's par for the course. If they DONT'T do it, it's a bonus. Also remember that there are two possibilities for your boss when they take credit for your idea. Either they know it was your work and you become more indispensable, or they are blind how important you were to the project and lacking the ability to see that may come back to bight them later.
It's all in the attitude. In my time in the work world it's crushing/mismanaging of good ideas that seems to bother me more.
If things are REALLY bad enough, you can call the boss on it. You can try and use it as leverage. You can even just quit. The question is do you care enough to risk all that? Any of those could easily make it harder to get hired somewhere else. But like I (and many others) have said: this will happen everywhere.
Commonplace (Score:2)
My boss got employee of the year. I got a $2/hr raise and a free trip to JavaOne... a
Your Resume (Score:2)
Your boss is not going to make a special point of giving you recognition. You need to sell yourself. But you also need to know the time and place. Demanding recognition while in the company is not going to win you many friends.
In the end, your work gets recognized in two places:
1 - Your resume -- where you make yourself sound super-cool (without sounding like you're trying too hard to make yourself sound cool. It's an art.)
2 - A letter of recommendation.
For now, think of your work as earning you
No, shut up about it (Score:2)
That's how you get noticed by people. Pushing to get credit during discussions with the upper suits is just going to make you look bad to your boss, which is the person you are trying
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Sorry, no moderation points but that _isn't_ flamebait. That is informative and insightful. The most sincere recognition a corporation can give is money. Praise is cheap, and "You're doing a wonderful job but no raise this year" means either "You suck but at least you work che