Canonical To Remove Sun Java From Repositories, Users' Machines 307
New submitter an_orphan writes "Apparently, Oracle's 'Operating System Distributor License for Java' is expired, causing Ubuntu to not only remove sun-java from the partner repository, but from user's machines."
"from user's machines" (Score:1, Insightful)
Canonical is the new Apple.
And OpenJDK still not working (Score:4, Insightful)
All the while OpenJDK still doesn't work with half of the stuff out there, for example Juniper's SSL VPN.
Great! Java: Compile once, works nowhere.
Re:Is this April first? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is what you get when you have infrastructure that is build around one centrally maintained dependency tree, you are slave to whatever decisions they make. It's not even a new problem, similar software removals against the users will have happened with Gnome2 vs Gnome3 and even back with Gnome1 vs Gnome2 and counterless times when a working version of Gimp was replaced with a broken one and only fixed month later. This one seems a bit more sinister as from the looks of it it seems they remove it in a regular software update, not a dist-upgrade, but it's essentially the same issue. And to all those "This isn't a problem"-sayers, the existence of complicated time consuming workarounds by manual compilation/installation, thus by-passing the binary package distribution, is part of the problem, not the solution.
It should really be time for Debian to move to a more flexible, more free form of package distribution that doesn't depend on a single dependency tree and fixed locations in the file system.
Oracle needs to be less stupid and less greedy... (Score:2, Insightful)
Second - What the hell are they going to replace it with? Are they saying you have to download and install Java manually? OpenJDK supposedly doesn't work with all things.
Third - What does this mean for Ubuntu derivatives like Mint? Are they going to have to pull the jdk as well?
Forth - Can we _please_ take up a collection to have the Oracle execs framed for terrorism and shipped off to Gitmo?
Honestly this is just stupid.
Re:An the point is? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"from user's machines" (Score:4, Insightful)
You could argue that by putting in your password when update manager asks for it, you are agreeing to let Canonical update your machine.
just replace your cars water pump (Score:4, Insightful)
with a different water pump. problem solved!!!
other than your car being out of commission for several days, and untold problems being encountered due to the incompatabilities between the old water pump and the new water pump. but whatever.
in the fantasy land of free software, you can replace word with openoffice, exchange with ????, and it wont cost anyone anything!
Re:Not for long? (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoah. Tone down on the bitterness man. I wish I had some of your insight into the world - on second thoughts I'm glad I don't.
They've targeted customers who are either spending somebody else's money (mainly the children of the wealthy living off of "daddy's money" or trust funds), those who are financially foolish (people who buy useless gadgets on credit), and those seeking a modern religion (the so-called Apple fanatics)
Yeah - those are the *only* people who buy Apple gadgets. Those millions and millions of foolish people living off daddy's money. Damn them! Damn them to Hell!
This has let them put out sub-par products with pretty horrible limitations,
Yeah, those MacBook Airs are just *rubbish* man. I *totally* can't see why Intel is giving other notebook vendors $100m just to try and come up with a reasonable competitor
but they can still sell them outrageous prices, and coupled with third-world manufacturing it allows them to make a very sizable profit.
obviously Samsung (and by extension Google), Amazon, Motorola, HTC and the rest are *good* companies because the fact that they have to sell their stuff at half the price just to try and get people to buy one and therefore don't make a profit at all means that *their* exploration of third world labour is somehow alright?
TL;DR version: OMFG get off your high horse mr AC anti-apple troll.
Re:"from user's machines" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"from user's machines" (Score:2, Insightful)
What "difference" are you talking about? There are *no* automatic updates on Apple stuff (OSX or iOS) - you have to agree to them each time. Please stop trolling about things you clearly don't know anything about.
The OP is talking about Apple's ability to remote kill applications for security reasons (already demonstrated on iOS, presumably coming soon on OS/X). This comes from itunes, bypasses all need for acknowlegements and has nothing to do with software updates. I will leave you to stew in the irony of your last sentence.
Re:just replace your cars water pump (Score:5, Insightful)
Continuing this stupid analogy: Your current water pump has security issues. Thieves can use it to steal your car! It has to be replaced, even if you're so incompetent that it takes you "several days" to get the job done.
Ubuntu no longer has access to OEM pumps, due to decisions made by the manufacturer. If Ubuntu's 3rd-party pump won't work for you, you can still go directly to the OEM, download the exact replacement pump and install it, for free.
Re:just replace your cars water pump (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly! You already replaced your car's stock water pump with some aftermarket thing, now that's not working out so well for you. So do the right thing and replace that aftermarket water pump with an OEM part like the car came with.
Re:OpenJDK (Score:3, Insightful)
You meant
"Ubuntu will still have the OpenJDK, which is not actually working for most stuff"
And alternatively users can download the JRE 7 from Oracle, which also does not work for a lot of stuff.
Great help that.
Java: Fails everywhere.
Re:"from user's machines" (Score:4, Insightful)
Software which someones tested and released under a given JDK was generally using it for a reason. I can, for one, specifically say that a project I'm working on will specifically *not* run under the OpenJDK.
Re:This won't work (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't - bad summary conflates "no license to distribute" with "security hole" - the security hole is why Ubuntu needs to fix this, but the only fix they can apply is to remove the package since they can't distribute the fixed version any more.
Re:"from user's machines" (Score:2, Insightful)
Yep. Been there, done that.
The problem is that proprietary software is generally badly-written rubbish, well below the typical quality of open source (and many studies have shown this). However, many companies still run proprietary software, and being terrible rubbish with no peer-review it's often only certified against specific versions of Java and will actually break with any other version. Heck, one package we're stuck with was only certified against Sun Java 6 a few months ago, and Java 5 was EOLed end 2009!
tl;dr proprietary software, being shit, can be very platform-specific.
Re:Not for long? (Score:0, Insightful)
"Yeah, those MacBook Airs are just *rubbish* man. I *totally* can't see why Intel is giving other notebook vendors $100m just to try and come up with a reasonable competitor"
Because all popular products are good?
Re:OpenJDK (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not about them no longer supplying it, but actually ripping it out of your box. They've already distributed it, and under an appropriate license- it wasn't leased out and the license doesn't require removal once the license is retired.
It does not make any sense to do what Canonical's doing here. Not happy about that thinking.
Re:Not for long? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like unpopular products are good? The Air is an excellent machine with no comparable competitor.
Re:Is this April first? (Score:2, Insightful)
It should really be time for Debian to move to a more flexible, more free form of package distribution that doesn't depend on a single dependency tree and fixed locations in the file system.
You're absolutely right! We should have packages which install their libraries wherever they feel like, leading to 20 different versions of the same library on the computer in different places, with no clear way of knowing which one is going to get loaded when you run your program.
We could call it
Uncool (Score:5, Insightful)
I can understand pulling it from the repositories for future installs, but from a user that installed it while the license was still in effect? Really uncool.
Aside from pissing people off in general, just think of all the production servers they may kill by doing this. And the lost customers, time, money..
Re:Not for long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not for long? (Score:5, Insightful)
Before I start, let me clarify that I am not a *fanboi* but the primary maintainer of a least a dozen production machines each of Windows 7, OS X, and Ubuntu linux. Therefore I feel I'm qualified to shed some light on your misconceptions. Take this response not as *hate* but as an assumption that you are not willfully ignorant about what you're talking about, and you just need someone knowledgeable to clear up your obvious confusion. That said...
truth is truth
conceded
You wanna know why Linux is dead last and going exactly nowhere?
Dead last on desktops. Number one in the server space. Number one in handhelds. PC ownership has stagnated. The mobile space is where all the growth is happening, and linux-based OS's are eating everyone but Apple's lunch in this field. Even Apple is still relegated to playing a strong second fiddle.
There are no anti-competitve bundling deals with PC distributors in the linux world. There's also little in the way of manufacturer and application support. Those are the real reasons. Less technical and more political than you seem to think.
you people really really REALLY suck at GUIs
This is a gross generalization. Gnome is really no more or less user friendly than any of the commercial alternatives. All of the several different viable options for linux destkop environments have their strengths and faults. It's not any different for Windows or OS X.
While you may think some damned 70s terminal is the essence of nirvana
For at least the last 5 years, use of the terminal on an Ubuntu desktop system is about as central as it is on Windows or OS X. Pros do it for convenience, but it isn't necessary unless you're trying to do something unorthodox. This is an old, dead, troll of an argument against Linux. Try a modern Linux desktop, it's really not as bad as you seem to think it is.
you are missing features that Windows had a fricking decade ago
By the same token, windows is still missing many features Linux had 20 years ago.
Where the fuck is the roll back drivers button? How about the find drivers button? You expect the user to magically know the make/model/rev of any and all pieces of hardware
Driver management in Linux is handled through the package manager, because drivers are software. I haven't needed to roll back a driver, ever. I did so exactly once to enable visual effects and it was complete cake. No CLIs were employed. The last time I needed to use lspci to determine the model of a piece of hardware because it wasn't autodetected was 2006. The last few releases of Ubuntu even notify me when there's a better proprietary (manufacturer) driver than the bundled open one, and automatically install THAT.
you couldn't put all these pieces together into a solid intuitive OS if someone put a gun to the head of RMS
so wait, *you're* the one worried about getting "hate" from "fanbois"? Ummm...
What is Linux now? It is a CLI OS with a GUI shell bolted on top
An OS is not "CLI or GUI". OS's work to abstract hardware from software. That is their purpose. OSX is a mach microkernel OS with a GUI on top. Windows 7 is a NT-family kernel with a GUI on top.
You're obviously really upset about linux. I don't really understand why, it sounds like you're really happy with Win7 and that's fine. You can rage about terminals and drivers, and it's not going to change any Linux users' minds about their choice in OS. And since win7 can't run ZFS and won't take the GUI code out of protected kernel space, your angry rant isn't going to change my mind either.
Point being that choice is good, each OS has its strengths and weaknesses. I salute your right to choose and even though windows is far and away the hardest of the three to administer, and you clearly have no need of the superior features Linux does offer, I'm glad you're happy with it.