East Coast vs. West Coast In the Quest For Young Programming Talent

McGruber writes "The Wall Street Journal is reporting that tech interns are in high demand in the Bay area. According to the author, 'Technology giants like Google Inc. have been expanding their summer-intern programs, while smaller tech companies are ramping up theirs in response — sometimes even luring candidates away from college.' Meanwhile in NYC, CIOs lament that they are unable to retain 20-something techies according to a report in Network World. Says one CIO, 'It puts us in a really uncomfortable position to have this kind of turnover because knowledge keeps walking out the door. We invest in training people and bringing them up to speed to where they need to be, and boom they're gone. That has been my biggest struggle and concern.' It's the pay, stupid!"

Re:the never ending "shortage of good people" lie

[TheGratefulNet]

I'm in my 50's and I got 'told to leave' my last job due to age, my high salary and of course, there was a nice annual reorg to help managers oust people with a clean excuse.

I know what's going on. insurance costs are high, people my age are not willing to be abused and we know our rights and our place in this world. we don't exist for mr. bossman or the company; family and home life DOES come first. so people like me get ousted.

I have no loyalty to companies anymore. none. they put up with employees because they have to, not because they *like* us. we are simply an expense. and when it suits them, they exit us and march in some new kids that are more easily abusable and overworkable.

that is, for jobs that are still IN the US. I've had to personally train indian replacements. not a good feeling knowing you are being pushed out, pretty blatantly.

no loyalty to companies or ceo's. and they wonder why!

reap what you sow, you bastards. but don't DARE complain about the mess YOU created!

Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose

[Deffexor]

Once salary is satisfied, what drives us all are 3 things: Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose.

I get the sense from my friends who work on the West Coast that they get these things from their jobs. On the East Coast, it doesn't seem to occur as often (or at the very least is harder to find.) I'm not surprised that young 20-somethings bail as often as they do in such an environment.

Here's a TED talk about it: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html [ted.com]

stats

[buddyglass]

I'm a senior dev working in Austin. Just ran my salary through some cost-of-living calculators vs. NYC and San Jose. One says I'd need to earn 1.55x my current salary to live comparably in NYC. A second calculator says 2.27x for Manhattan, 1.90x for Brooklyn and 1.66x for Queens. The second one also claims 1.63x for San Jose.

Re:err

[Xyrus]

The only reason why they're aiming for young people is because they are dirt cheap compared to an experienced programmer. Once someone gains experience they look at the 60+ hours they're working for half the average salary and decide to look for greener pastures.

The turnover is so high because only the young are exploitable enough to take crappy salaries and long hours in order to get some relevant professional experience on their resumes. Only an idiot or someone incredibly loyal (also an idiot) would continue to work in that position once they had gained the relevant experience.

If your company is having high turnover, it's most likely because your company is doing something wrong.

Re:Why the false cries of racism?

[Shalian]

I'm not sure where you're getting western coast is predominantly Hispanic and black from. The two cities I'm most familiar with here Seattle [wikipedia.org] and Redmond [wikipedia.org] claim 69.5% White and 79.26% White respectively... I'd say that's predominantly Caucasian...

Not just the pay...it's the location.

[Cutting_Crew]

I know people on here will say NYC is a great place and all but just because you make $150,000 a year doesn't mean anything. If you are an engineer in the New York area you are going to be working downtown. That means either you pay $3,000 a month for a one bedroom closet or you live 1 hour+ away so you can hope to afford a big enough place for your family. I've driven the hour ONE WAY before for 3 years and let me tell you - it's a drain on your body, your mind and everything else. I am in Florida and get calls and email asking me to move to NYC, Chicago, Minnesota, etc etc. The guy in NYC thought I would be thrilled to make $150,000 a year since i was only making about $85K but once you run the numbers you figure out quickly that i would be LOSING money by taking the job. I make about 70% more but housing is 3 to 4 times more on average for the same sq footage and that is like an hour away from city. Why in the world would i change jobs where i would lose money and have to travel 1 hour each way every day for the hassle of a city environment. 1 hour each way = 2 hours a day = 40 hours a month. A whole extra week that i would lose to do ... well.. anything that i wanna do that i am doing now. No thanks.

So its just not about the pay. its about the location.

Re:Gee - there's no loyalty?

[Jane Q. Public]

The guild system -- followed by early trade unions, which were an extension of the same idea -- was a horrible, abusive system. I would not wish it on anybody.

Guilds were not created to help workers. Guilds were created to keep tradecrafts secret and expensive. They drove prices up, were terribly abusive to apprentices (that was part of the point... THEY got cheap unskilled labor) and kept common workers (who would have brought prices down through competition) OUT.

If you think guilds were good, for anybody but the master craftsmen, you haven't read your history very carefully.