The Perils of Developers Hooking Up 278
jammag writes "Who better for a developer to love than another developer? Yet as a veteran coder describes, it's not always a good idea for a programmer to fall for another programmer. He describes his experience observing — and getting partially pulled into — a romance within a development team. Part of the problem, perhaps, is that some developers spend so much time buried in code that, well, they quickly find themselves out of their league. Then again, why not love among the code?"
Old wisdom (Score:4, Funny)
This is nothing more than the old wisdom of not dating anyone who is exactly like you. You need someone that shares little same interestst, but who can fullfil things you dont like or do. Yes, you can have one night stands between developers, but then again, majority of female programmers are ugly and insecure as hell, so you might want to get a normal person anyway.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Interesting)
*COUGH* BS
I am a mechanical engineer, wife is electrical. We have worked together have similar interests (though there are differences) and yet we have been together for 20 years!!!! In fact my wife is my mate for life. I don't know what what I would do without her. I also think your comment that a majority of female programmers are ugly and insecure is completely missing the mark. Get out of your hole caveman! Maybe you are the problem, not the women that you are critiquing.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
But why exactly would you want someone exactly like you to be your partner? It works much better when each other complete each other.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Interesting)
Because that way you understand each other. Because that way your eccentricities don't bother her so much, and vice versa. Because that way you can generally simultaneously do things that you enjoy doing and also spend time with the person you enjoy spending time with, rather than picking one or the other exclusively.
I've never met anyone exactly like myself, though if I were single and did meet such a person, I would be immediately interested, but I wouldn't even consider a relationship with someone I didn't share a majority of interests and a similar worldview with. I've seen where that leads (it leads to a relationship like my parents' :p).
Re:Old wisdom (Score:4, Insightful)
Or, it is a lot like masturbation without all the work being done by yourself?
All joking aside, I dated a girl who was almost exactly like I thought I was. I found several things out. First, I wasn't like I thought I was. There was a lot about me I didn't know. Second, and probably most importantly, I couldn't stand her after a short period of time being around each other. She had the same problems, we would eventually drive each other nutz to the point we started fighting/arguing. We made an arrangement so we would never go to bed mad at each other. I would go for a walk and she would go into the kitchen and make something. Perhaps if I like nature better, we might still be together.
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Well, she does joke that she likes me because she must be a huge narcissist :p. (I knew I was looking for someone basically like her for as long as I had any desire to be with anyone, while she didn't know she was looking for someone like me (read: herself) until we met ;)).
I'd argue, though, that if you didn't get along with someone you thought was like you because it turned out you didn't know yourself very well, that's hardly an argument against finding love with someone who's like you - much the opposit
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I married someone who was a very nice person but was different from me. We got divorced.
I am now dating (Marriage is a sham I won't enter again) someone long-term who is very much like me. Not like I think I am (which I believe was your problem) but like I actually am. Every day is like the day we started dating. It's awesome.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Interesting)
Some of the benefits of marriage which you may not be able to duplicate with other legal documents:
-visitation rights in jail or hospital
-automatic right of survivor-ship on joint accounts/leases
-next of kin rights for inheritance and medical decisions if incapacitated
-marital communications privileges during lawsuit or criminal proceedings
-joint adoption/parenting rights
-insurance benefits at most jobs
-able to receive social security, disability, or medicaid benefits
-able to receive some portion of most pensions after partner is deceased
-exemption for estate and gift taxes on items given to your spouse
-joint tax return
Marriage is more then a piece of paper, even discounting any religious significance.
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Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Insightful)
Because that way you understand each other. Because that way your eccentricities don't bother her so much, and vice versa. Because that way you can generally simultaneously do things that you enjoy doing and also spend time with the person you enjoy spending time with, rather than picking one or the other exclusively.
I've never met anyone exactly like myself, though if I were single and did meet such a person, I would be immediately interested, but I wouldn't even consider a relationship with someone I didn't share a majority of interests and a similar worldview with. I've seen where that leads (it leads to a relationship like my parents' :p).
Exactly! My husband and I are both EE's and we've been happily together for...wow, has it really been 12 years already? Our main interests naturally have a lot of crossover, but it's not like we're clones of each other. We have plenty of other interests to discuss when we don't want to talk shop, and ones that allow us to interact with our (mostly non-engineer) friends. But when it's just the two of us, as you said, we can easily find things that interest us both. Museum of modern art? meh. Museum of scifi/fantasy? Two tickets, please!
I do think we understand one another in ways that couples who subscribe to the 'opposites attract' theory of life never could. For example: he once got me a NAS unit with four 1TB hard drives for my birthday...and it was incredibly sweet, because it was exactly what I had wanted, right down to the brand of the hard drives. I think he must have snooped my browser history or something, because I hadn't even been hinting about it. Of course, if I do get a hankering for non-tech presents, I do have to hint very baldly indeed...but I know and accept that I won't get perfume for Christmas unless I email him the specific brand and where to buy it, whereas if I want the latest RPG for one of our gaming consoles, well, I just have to say 'hmmm, that one looks interesting' once ;o)
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Insightful)
It's true, female programmers tend to be ugly and insecure. We had one in our class and she was shy as hell.
That's funny, one of our dev teams is over half female and none of them are ugly or insecure. And what does shy have to do with it? One of our star developers is shy and reserved outside of his team, but he still does great work. It may take longer to get to know a shy person, but it's generally worth the extra work. (I was painfully shy in high school and early college, but now I'm much more outgoing and have no problem giving presentations even to large (100+) groups)
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
one of our dev teams is over half female and none of them are ugly or insecure
From the waist up, right? How is life in Thailand?
Re: (Score:3)
... and fish on the top.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
If they had big boobs they'd never have gone into programming.
Really? Because almost all of the programmers that I know have enormous, hairy boobs. Doesn't seem to have impeded those guys in the least.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Insightful)
We had one in our class and she was shy as hell.
Weird, there was a person in your class who was singled out as being different from everyone else, and she was shy? Not sure I believe that...
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It's true, female programmers tend to be ugly and insecure. We had one in our class and she was shy as hell.
Whoops, it looks like the word female accidentally got into your sentence before your description programmers. You might want to fix that before everyone thinks you're being a total misogynist based on one anecdote that could be said to support half of your theory.
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
I am a mechanical engineer, wife is electrical.
So, she brought the spark with her and you gave her steaming hot sex in exchange?
Additional necdotal counterpoints to GP (Score:3)
I also know of two pairs of now-married employees in my corporation are both very similar.
One such couple are both very narrowly focused in aligned skills and interests, geospatial app development.
Another such couple are both high-level engineers that do program management.
I think it just depends on the people. If you put your career first, and then the relationship happens later, then I think it works great! This particular story is one of people getting involved with someone they just met on a particular
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
> I am a mechanical engineer, wife is electrical.
Wow, you are SO in the wrong field. I am a software engineer; my wife is biological.
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Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Funny)
She hates me, I hate her.
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Citation, please.
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A really old joke:
A preacher, a politician, and a programmer walk into a bar.
The preacher starts saying "I hope my congregation and my wife don't find out about my mistress on the side"
The politician says "I hope my constituents don't find out about my love for gay bars".
The programmer says "I introduced my mistress to my wife and gave them my credit card to go shopping with so I could GET SOME WORK DONE!"
The only time in my marriage I was tempted to stray was early on with a programmer 5 years younger than
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Insightful)
getting insults at cons about her boob size
What the serious fuck is wrong with people, man?
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If I'd been a member of this subculture back then, I would have tried to assemble roving gangs of hecklers to identify the guys pulling this sort of shit and follow them around making unsolicited observations about how their physiques differed from the guy on the shirtless-barbarian-warrior character class page.
(Not that it would be okay for the tiny minority of Adonis-looking gamer nerds to pull this crap either, but still. Ugh. I am embarrassed on behalf of all geekdom when i hear these stories.)
Re:Old wisdom (Score:4, Insightful)
What it ACTUALLY is, is a misogynistic and discriminatory story that's trying to paint women in the workplace as instigators and troublemakers.
Here, Adam... just take a bit of this apple.
The evil attractive woman is added to the team, but "gets by" on her looks and seduces everyone around her. Whatever.
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I agree. This is @#$%ing offensive. My wife and I are software developers and she is a million times the better coder than I, she is very attractive, and she was the lead developer at her last company, where she eventually decided to quit because of self-absorbed idiots like the author of this article who were constantly getting heart-bubbles for her and later putting her down when they learned she was out of their league. Today, years later, that same company pays her an exorbitant hourly rate to maintain
Re:Old wisdom (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine why more women don't choose to enter the IT and dev professions when tech sites and forums are so full of gems like this one.
You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
(mumble) perl necklace (/mumble)
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Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm gonna violate array bounds like nobody's business.
You won't even have time to garbage collect before I'm dumping core.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe you just need to spend a bit more time initializing your pointer.
Re:You've changed... (Score:4, Funny)
unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes,fsck,fsck,fsck,umount, sleep
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
If you are trying to make a joke, atleast do it properly. Use a semicolon instead of the comma, and it makes sense in both english and bash.
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Re:You've changed... (Score:4, Funny)
if you just unmount, sleep without at least some touch, you probably getting an access denied when you try to logon the next time...
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Hey, I can't help that I'm an object oriented guy.
Re:You've changed... (Score:4, Funny)
I bow down before thee... (Score:2)
Although, I have to say, my wife does not like to be grepped. She feels that I'd just be looking for the desired parts...
Well, duh!
And use a semi-colon for Dog's sake!
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes,fsck,fsck,fsck,umount, sleep
And remember, folks: using sudo is NOT OK!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Why don't you ever comment anymore?
Because you don't commit.
Re:You've changed... (Score:5, Funny)
Why don't you ever comment anymore?
Because you don't commit.
Maybe I'd be more willing to commit if you'd be more willing to fork.
The perils of programmers marrying (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The perils of programmers marrying (Score:5, Funny)
Babies have scope creep written all over them.
Re:The perils of programmers marrying (Score:5, Funny)
But if you have nine people involved, it only takes one month! Or so my manager told me once.
Re:The perils of programmers marrying (Score:5, Funny)
Just wait until you hear about how long you've got to support it. And you go to jail if you EOL it!
Re:The perils of programmers marrying (Score:5, Funny)
My wife doesn't understand me (Score:2)
Even a dog knows... (Score:5, Insightful)
...not to shit where they eat.
Hooking up with cow-orkers often ends badly -- the line of work has nothing to do with it.
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...not to shit where they eat.
You've obviously never met the dog that we had when I was a kid...
To be polite about it, the dog was kind of confused as to what was food and what was not food...
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Even a dog knows...not to shit where they eat.
I beg to differ, and so does Matt Inman it would seem. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox
Ugh (Score:5, Informative)
What's this rubbish doing on Slashdot? It's a badly written co-worker romance short story.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Funny)
It's a badly written work of fiction. I'm guessing it got posted on Datamation because even Harlequin has standards.
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It's a badly written work of fiction. I'm guessing it got posted on Datamation because even Harlequin has standards.
//Fifty Shades of Green (colour may vary depending on IDE)
Simple Rule (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't fuck where you eat.
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lm6CD__BJw [youtube.com]
Don't crap where you eat... (Score:5, Insightful)
You see this person about eight hours a day, and might even work in the same group-cubicle. If your relationship gets serious then you're likely to see them many hours a day beyond the workday too. For probably most of us, best case and the relationship goes well, one gets a little tired of the significant other after awhile, but literally can't escape because of the enforced time at work together. Worst case, the relationship ends, badly, and you're stuck with them in the same confined space but now can't stand each other.
Eight or so years ago I dated a gal for a few months that works at one of the sites I support and it's still a little awkward running into her when I go there. I can't imagine the awkwardness if we worked at the same site, let alone the same department. It would probably also complicate my subsequent marriage, as I doubt my wife would be very happy with me working closely with an old flame.
If working groups are varied and dynamic and if the organization is large enough that one doesn't constantly see the other, then it might work okay to date a coworker, but even then it has its perils, not even getting into career choices.
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The more general version of this is that dual relationships (that is, where 2 people have a professional relationship of any kind with a close friend or partner) are risky, because problems in one area tend to spill over to the other. That's why banging your clients is typically barred by professional organizations, and why banging your coworkers is usually at least questionable at many companies. In the case of medical professionals, they're generally advised against treating family members as well except
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Personalities (Score:2)
IMO, It boils down to A) the personalities involved, and B) how well one person deals with the other person's annoying little quirks.
As for B, well... patience goes a long way. Doesn't hurt if you really love the other person, too - makes those little annoyances far easier to deal with.
"why not love among the code?" (Score:5, Funny)
Because you'll get the keyboards all sticky!
Dating a co-worker can be bad for your health (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dating a co-worker can be bad for your health (Score:5, Insightful)
Inter-office romance shouldn't be banned, but you better be damn sure before jumping into a relationship with a co-worker. I don't see how the job description changes that fact. Life isn't fair, and if the relationship ends badly (and it surfaces at work), the woman is more likely to be the subject of gossip and office drama among colleagues.
As a manager I wish office relationships were banned. No matter what the intentions are when starting a relationship, the truth is that many relationships die, and sometimes die a horrible, prolonged death. And when it involves two people that have to work together, the whole team suffers.
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Inter-office romance shouldn't be banned, but you better be damn sure before jumping into a relationship with a co-worker. I don't see how the job description changes that fact. Life isn't fair, and if the relationship ends badly (and it surfaces at work), the woman is more likely to be the subject of gossip and office drama among colleagues.
As a manager I wish office relationships were banned. No matter what the intentions are when starting a relationship, the truth is that many relationships die, and sometimes die a horrible, prolonged death. And when it involves two people that have to work together, the whole team suffers.
Well I'm glad you don't get to decide that dipshit, because historically husband and wife teams have done some excellent work.
Given my experience at the workplace, I'd say that about 10% of office romances last more than a year. About 30% of the remainder end in emotional mess, leaving one or both partners unable to work at their full potential for weeks or months (or never, leading one to transfer or quit), the the other 70% end quietly, with just some gentle tension between the former partners.
How many of these great husband-wife teams have worked successfully at a company? (as opposed to working for themselves... my own wife an
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You can't be damn sure before jumping into a relationship.
Some of the things you almost definitely don't know about somebody before you start a relationship, and would sound very weird asking about before you got into one: Do they snore, steal the blankets, or have other annoying nighttime habits? What are they like when they first wake up? Do they like to have the same kind of sex you do? Do they want to have children? If you both want to have children, what kind of parent would they be? Do they have the s
Compartmentalize. But it ain't easy. (Score:2)
Speaking from experience, it can be fine if you're not working together on the same project. Otherwise, it takes a lot of effort to compartmentalize. You cannot allow personal stuff to leak into work stuff. Imagine the following conversation:
Person A: "That structure doesn't look right. You should do something like this." (demonstrates)
Person B: "There's nothing wrong with it."
Person A: "It's inefficient."
Person B: (Irritated) "Oh yeah? Well, I don't like the way you slurp your coffee!"
At this point th
s/developers/people (Score:3)
Absolutely don't date a developer (for men) (Score:2)
So, to those single devs on this thread: get off your little couches and your home gaming rigs, and find someone outside the office. I recommend friends of
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get off your little couches and your home gaming rigs, and find someone outside the office.
Church is recommended for the ~1% of Slashdotters who actually have a religion. Lots of normal females to meet there.
For the 99% who are atheists, I recommend music. If you played a musical instrument in middle/high school, go to a local community college and enroll in a performing class. If you're actually (still) proficient, you can join some kind of a community orchestra.
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One time ... at band camp ...
But, slightly more seriously ... that's it? Church or music? I'm betting you've covered 2% of everyone here and that "not religious and not musical" covers a huge swath of people.
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For the 99% who are atheists, I recommend music. If you played a musical instrument in middle/high school, go to a local community college and enroll in a performing class. If you're actually (still) proficient, you can join some kind of a community orchestra.
I second this; having been a member of several small, local theater groups in my youth, I can say with assurance that participating in the performing arts is a great way to get some tail.
Re:Absolutely don't date a developer (for men) (Score:5, Insightful)
Church is recommended for the ~1% of Slashdotters who actually have a religion. Lots of normal females to meet there.
Let me guess - you're the 99%.
As one of the handful of Christian Slashdotters, I can tell you that this is patently not the case. A "nonreligious" girl will say something like, "I'm not feeling it" or, "you're a nice guy, but...". The majority of the girls with whom I spent my adolescence with in church would say, "I don't feel led to date you" or "You're a nice guy, but God told me to date Mr. Tall-dark-wealthy-handsome over there." At one point I learned that trying to beat them at their own game by saying something to the effect of, "I understand, and am certain that you have been praying about it for some time, since Exodus 20:7 does condemn using God's name to justify actions that you take at variance with His direction, right?" at which point I learned that turning things into a scripture war isn't exactly the best way to win her heart, even if I win the argument. To sum up, girls in church generally only differ from the majority of girls outside of church in that church girls will justify their lack of interest by blaming God, whether or not God genuinely gave her direction in this regard. Hence, this church filled with normal, single girls you speak of is not one I've yet visited.
What I *will* say though, is that there's a pretty good way of weeding out the girls who are actually decent people and getting to know them: sign up for service projects. 3,000 people attended my church weekly. When it was time for the semi-annual church work day where we'd rake leaves, mop floors, reorganize cabinets, run wires, etc., on the good years we'd end up with MAYBE 25 people. Some of the most fun times I've ever had at the church were spent in the kitchen slicing 50 pound bags of onions and potatoes as we threw a banquet for several hundred homeless people in our area. Again, a church of 3,000, but a dozen people helping in the kitchen and having a blast in the process. The people who showed up for those kinds of events were there to actually help out others and were willing to sacrifice their time to do it. A resistance to doing those kinds of things when one's day is otherwise uncommitted speaks louder about that person than even the most complete profile on eHarmony - but the opposite is also true. I met more than one of my best friends through those kinds of things, and even if things don't work out, or you have one of those random silences that would be problematic and awkward if done on a first date, the worst case scenario is that you've got organized cabinets, a pan of chopped onions, or a yard whose leaves are raked. On top of that, when you're performing an activity together, it helps with the other issue that I frequently have - when sharing a task, you're all but guaranteed to find something to talk about without guessing if the other person can relate.
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Church is recommended for the ~1% of Slashdotters who actually have a religion. Lots of normal females to meet there.
For the atheists, be aware your views would be welcome at a Unitarian Universalist church too. Just be aware they welcome theists of all stripes as well.
This falls into the category of (Score:2)
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How do you explain cows then?
I know many people who have spent time around cows which will tell me a cow will shit in its water bucket, on its food, on itself, and pretty much anywhere else it can manage.
It's a nice guide, but I'm not convinced the animal kingdom is that aware of it. But maybe it's just cows. :-P
On a serious note.. (Score:2, Informative)
Studies have shown that the risk of kids having Autistic spectrum disorders is drastically increased when both parents are borderline Aspergers or whatever (this shouldn't really come as a surprise). So it may be a very good idea for programmers to aim as high as they can when finding a spouse and try to get someone who at least has a normal amount of extroversion. If that's not possible and you do end up with someone of a similar personality, candidly assess your own mental state and think seriously about
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I have seen those studies, and they are interesting.
That said, as someone with supposedly high-functioning Aspergers, I'm generally attracted to other people who are also similar; furthermore, I have a feeling if I was ever a dad, I'd be a better dad to a kid whose brain I understood better, too. So I'm not seeing that as completely a bad thing. :p
(Obviously, having a kid with crazy Autism would suck horribly for both me and the kid, but I honestly don't really think that kind of crazy Autism is even -relat
Drama queens make terrible co-workers (Score:2)
No matter what the profession, drama in the workplace, at the level described in TFA, is best reserved for Prime Time TV. It's really annoying to those of us who are actually working.
nothing to do with 'developers' (Score:5, Insightful)
Office romances (especially within the same team) are always bad news. Though the story comes off as a poorly written romance novel - a sort of Shades of Grey fantasy novel for geeks.
That said, I've dated girls in my field and girls outside of my field, and I've found that I get along better with those outside my field. We don't need work to be our 'common ground', and we don't find ourselves telling each other how to do each other's job. When she tells me about her workday, I don't feel so compelled to tell her how to solve her problem since I have no expertise in her field. And vice-versa. On the flip side, if I'm looking for advice about some specific problem I'm facing, I can't go to her, but that's what friends are for.
Nothing to do with geeks (Score:3)
"Office romances (especially within the same team) are always bad news. Though the story comes off as a poorly written romance novel - a sort of Shades of Grey fantasy novel for geeks."
If it's Shades of Grey for geeks, show me the pr0n. It's more like Days of Our Lives, soap opera reruns for bored code monkeys. There's more sex in Twilight than in this drivel. Of course that may be the point. The guy didn't get shagged because he was too busy getting fragged by the girl.
Imagine the bedroom banter.... (Score:2)
{
service me;
}
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Careful there cowboy. Sloppy syntax can send you into an infinite loop.
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Title unrelated to subject (Score:5, Interesting)
Title made me curious why someone would be claiming developers shouldn't hook up (possibly a new study about the prevalence of high-level autism in the Silicon Valley?) Being a developer who is dating another developer and who might eventually want kids, that would have been potentially relevant.
But no, this was just another random story of a hot programmer flirting with teammates, which, as a jillion people have aready said, is generally a bad idea whether you're a programmer, or have any other career that involves working in a group. I don't think it'd be any different or less awkward for someone on my team as a developer to hook up with a tester or a graphic designer or a documentation writer on the same team as for them to hook up with another developer.
Inversely, a while ago I learned one of the testers on our team had requested to move to a different team; a few months later I learned it was because she'd started dating a developer on that team. They've been happily married a couple years now, and both still work here. Probably smart of them to be in different teams, though (though both still on the development floor, which I see nothing wrong with at all.)
the PERLs of Developers Hooking-Up (Score:2, Funny)
It all starts-out with that flirtatious morning JAVA, and soon, it's on to PERL necklaces, and RUBY on rings.
Son of Software (Score:4, Funny)
My mother was a web-app, my father was mobile. I am the result of a one-time backend synchronization.
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Example (Score:2)
if foo
then blah
else foo 2
#crashes like you do after work -John
while blah
#double-check it was actually done, you should try it sometime -Jane
Don't let this sad tale scare you (Score:5, Insightful)
It Was A Documented Affair (Score:3, Funny)
When I was in the USAF in the '80s I was maintaining a system written by some folks from Sandia Labs in Albequerque. Apparently, two of them were having a bit of an affair (when they visited our site, at least) and they'd taken to leaving notes for each other in the code comments. While those comments didn't help me resolve issues with the code (and there were quite a few) they did occasionally provide some welcome humorous relief while searching for bugs. Especially when a few were found and we tried to match them up without any context or sequence info...
Good thing their spouses weren't cleared to see the code...
Has nothing to do with being a developer. (Score:3)
This has nothing to do with being a developer. Most workplaces discourage or outright ban workplace romances because they rarely work out and the fallout is detrimental to the organization.
Where are all the "pair programming" jokes? (Score:3)
Bad ones, of course.
This story isn't about programmers (Score:3)
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Yes. Next stupid question?