New Java Vulnerability Found Affecting Java 5, 6, and 7 SE 121
jcatcw writes "Just as Oracle is ramping up for the September 30 start of JavaOne 2012 in San Francisco, researchers from the Polish firm Security Explorations disclosed yet another critical Java vulnerability that might 'spoil the taste of Larry Ellison's morning ... Java.' According to Security Explorations researcher Adam Gowdiak, who sent the email to the Full Disclosure Seclist, this Java exploit affects one billion users of Oracle Java SE software, Java 5, 6 and 7. It could be exploited by apps on Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Opera and Safari. Wow, thanks a lot Oracle."
Java runtime vs. .NET runtime (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Java runtime vs. .NET runtime (Score:5, Funny)
Dude!!! You almost made pop come out my nose! I laughed so hard!
Pop (Score:1)
Your dad came out of your nose?
http://www.popvssoda.com Fight!
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At first glance I thought you said 'pop corn out of my nose'. I was picturing kernels going in one nostril and fully popped corn shooting out the other.
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What does ActiveX have to do with .Net?
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Actually, the way I see it is that Microsoft learned their lesson 10-15 years ago the hard way with things like ActiveX, leading them make vast improvements with regards to security in their products. Lessons that a lot of other companies are just learning now.
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nonsense, Microsoft still lets security flaws go for years without patch. Their pseudo "operating system" and major wares still install malware without any user interaction needed. Microsoft's softwares are not business grade and have no place in the corporate world.
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Really, somebody better tell Microsoft so they can stop issuing worthless security updates: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-016
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Um, no. Not even slightly.
There was a patch for three of the (~20) vulnerabilities that were reported. When Oracle neglected to patch the rest in a timely manner, another 3 of the vulns were chained together to make a full applet-sandbox-bypass exploit. That was in the wild for several days before Oracle finally released an out-of-band patch to fix it... and even then, they haven't yet patched all the other reported issues.
Oracle knew about the vulns, and may even have had an internal patch, bu they did not
Re:Java runtime vs. .NET runtime (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Java runtime vs. .NET runtime (Score:5, Interesting)
Nah, I'd say Flash is the most exploited runtime.
I never liked Java, but .NET is even worse for a web platform as it only supports a fraction of the platforms. Java was invented to be portable, .NET was invented to be less portable Java.
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[.NET is] just like Java, except without an evil corporation yanking the carpet out from under the devs every three months.
LOLWUT?
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Moonlight is dead. It hasn't been updated in nearly 2 years. Moonlight never supported drms, authentication and such, unlike SilverLight.
I used to belong to Netflix (back when they had a good selection of movies) but couldn't stream movies from their website to Linux.
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Have YOU heard about how compatible they were?
If they had been successful, MS had already pledged to sue them "To defend our intellectual property". Now that was only an MS vice-president, so while he's an official spokesman, he might not know the true plan. But it was said, and never denied.
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http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/community-promise/default.aspx
Yeah, so much for suing. BTW, care to provide reference to your claim while you're at it?
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My understanding was that the basic .NET features were covered by the promise, but that some of the basic libraries weren't. I'll admit that I was never interested enough to remember the details. Something like "it didn't cover the window manager classes from the library".
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What is with Java and all these exploits? It's the most exploited piece of software on planet. I think they should learn something from Microsoft's .NET runtime. It's installed on pretty much every Windows computer out there. Still there are no exploits against it! Microsoft seems to know what they're doing much better than Oracle
All of the present exploits have come from Sun, prior to being acquired by Oracle. Did you expect Oracle to go back and regression test for exploits? I thought the code being open source would allow these things to be found?
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Congratulations on joining the *whoosh* club for this thread.
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I certainly hope .Net is secure...because the '.Net security updates' utterly fail to install themselves on any machine I own. Doesn't matter what version (v1.0 to whatever they're at now), doesn't matter what OS version (I've got XP and 7), I don't think a single one has ever installed. These days I don't even bother trying unless I'm already in a bad mood.
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.NET actually has a bigger attack surface when it comes to sandbox exploits, because its type system is much more complicated, and so its bytecode verifier has to be more complex as well to deal with that, with more corner cases that it can potentially get wrong. For example, .NET has the concept of managed pointers (aka byref) for parameter passing. It also has the concept of vararg methods on VM level (with a variable number of argument actually being pushed on the execution stack - not like Java array-ba
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We could all just bypass Oracle and Microsoft, and move to Dalvik.
IcedTea, anyone? (Score:1)
As with previous exploits, what about IcedTea (OpenJDK)? Are Linux users yet again kicking back and enjoying the show?
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IcedTea is really, really close to being a viable replacement for Oracle's JRE. Some crappy webapps from vendors who should know better (Juniper, looking at you) fail on IcedTea probably because of stupid reasons that could be fixed instantaeously if the vendor bothered with even the slighted QA on the open JRE. This issue is rapidly elevating to critical because as everybody can see, relying on Oracle for anything is just bad business.
Every big SW package has bugs (Score:2)
While I commend their efforts, they could've reduced unneeded panic, FUD, and distraction by giving Oracle a few weeks to patch it before the big announcement.
Now customers everywhere will be concerned about this bug instead of the disclosed-to-the-vendor-only bug that gives you full administrative rights but which won't be made public until a reasonable time after the vendor was notified.
Apologies in advance if Oracle was notified a few weeks before this was made public and didn't disclose it themselves.
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instead of the disclosed-to-the-vendor-only bug
And if other parties (black hats) are also aware the problem?
Report exploits to Debian and Red Hat too (Score:5, Insightful)
The OpenJDK teams at Debian (who also do Ubuntu) and Red Hat are good people to notify as well. Unlike Oracle, they won't sit on bugs.
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you do realize that installing a package as root does not automatically cause the binary to be run AS root. I could chown every file on a linux system to be owned by root:root and still be able to run programs as a non-privileged account.
I don't know if you're trolling or misinformed, but there is nothing inherently insecure about installing packages as root. RUNNING them as root is something completely different.
The Captha was "Audited" ... funny.
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Does one need to be root to install relocatable packages in a user's directory? That depends on the package.
"Wow, thanks a lot Oracle." (Score:5, Insightful)
Release of Java 5: September 30, 2004
Oracle's acquisition of Sun: January 27, 2010
I know it's fun to hate on Oracle (commencing Ellison yacht joke in 5, 4, 3...), but it makes you look a little imbalanced to blame them for a vulnerability that exists in a product created by a different company almost 5+ years before Oracle even bought them.
Shouldn't we at least wait until after we find out that Oracle knew all about this for months on end, chose to tell no one, and then ported it forward into Java 7 before we lambaste them?
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No! Fuck Oracle! They are the 1%!
Re:"Wow, thanks a lot Oracle." (Score:5, Informative)
Java 5 was even EOL'd well before Oracle bought Sun.
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Worse I have to clean machines which use Java 1.4.2 on the clients using IE 7. They get infected ALOT but use them for their banking apps online. Can't upgrade them because the 9 year old Kronos app is not compatible with any other version and this would hurt the shareprice.
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Hell one of those companies is Oracle themselves. In fact the current version of several of the products we use still have the JRE 1.5.0 as the bundled version.
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How much do you want to bet vendors like Oracle and others will still be selling software that requires XP long after the EOL on 3/2014?
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Re:"Wow, thanks a lot Oracle." (Score:5, Insightful)
Number of fscks Larry Ellison has given about Java since finding out owning it doesn't mean Google owes him a ton of money for Dalvik: 0
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Number of viable alternative desktop implementations? Ditto.
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Re:"Wow, thanks a lot Oracle." (Score:5, Insightful)
They've owned the product for almost three years now, so I'd say that bugs in current versions are their fault for not doing sufficient QA to find/fix, regardless of where they originated. When you own something, you own the responsibility too.
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Part of this is not Oracle's or Sun's fault. It is the customers who uses 10 year old software that relies on these exploits to provide functionality like COM integration with Excel and other useless features.
The more Oracle plugs these holes the more users will demand to keep XP and Java 1.4.2 around the office. Corporate customers hate change and fixes make them nervous.
Java does run on every platform. The problem is it does not run on past versions of itself and like ancient versions of IE they create lo
Is Java the new Flash? (Score:5, Funny)
Please discuss.
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No, Java is the old Flash.
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wabbit season
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Post subjects are like headlines:
If they end with a question mark, the answer is always "no."
Is Betteridge's Law of Headlines Ever True? (Score:2)
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He'll save every one of us!
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Not that bad but could be better. Unfortunately, in Oracle's hands its more likely to get worse.
Actually, Javascript needs to be the new Java. Which seems to actually be happening. Sure, Javascript sucks seriously in its own way and can't touch Java in performance, but it does the job, blows Java out of the water in responsivess, and has multiple implementations not under the control of any one company.
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Actually, Javascript needs to be the new Java. Which seems to actually be happening.
Shit. Swapping something that's extremely well defined (even anal-retentively so) for something with as... err... whimsical set of variations as Javascript is such a huge step forward. Not.
Sure, Javascript sucks seriously in its own way and can't touch Java in performance, but it does the job, blows Java out of the water in responsivess, and has multiple implementations not under the control of any one company.
On the other hand, the main reason that JS is responsive is that it's got a fully warmed up engine going by the time your browser actually loads any script code. There's a large class of things that you can't do in JS (well, not the JS that's in browsers) and the multiple implementations vary in subtle ways that bite you
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See, Javascript sucks but Java fails. Pick your poison.
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Actually, Javascript needs to be the new Java.
I can assure you that you don't wanna see that happen.
It already happened, clientside... can you spell Ajax? But I agree, it would be nuts to use Javascript serverside for a project of any scope. And also nuts to use Oracle's Java. You should be using GCJ or TowerJ.
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So when was the last time you actually needed that Java-plugin in your browser?
10 minutes ago. even twice (Barracuda's SSL VPN tunneling thingy is based on Java, and our web-based CPOE [wikipedia.org] uses Java to print barcodes*)
If you have an IT job you might need it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Java plugins won't help you flip burgers, but if you work in a large corporation you will find about fifty mission-critical apps you definitely will need that plug-in for.
And the sysadmins hate EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
Because they SUCK to admin... end users who don't have to use or admin the codebase love them, because they are pretty and sound like coffee.
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I thought that the Google Dalvik case would have ended all fear about repercussions from developing a viable alternative implementation. And with Oracles horrible, horrible track record I would have thought people would have been scrambling to do so.
So far we have... nothing I can think of.
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I just RTFA, from what I can tell this affects anyone who needs to run untrusted code in a JVM with a SecurityManager, not just applets.
That said, I can't think of any reason to do that besides applets, so most vulnerable users are those with browser plugins. Virtually everyone I know who runs Java deploys it within a servlet container where untrusted code is not normally a concern. Given that, the story seems a bit overblown.
Thank you! (Score:2)
Now I don't have to RTFA. IMO that simple statement "this only applies to running untrusted code in a JVM with a SecurityManager" is the most important thing to say about this exploit; sad it wasn't in the summary.
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You haven't supported corporate America yet.
Java and ancient browsers are EVERYWHERE. Worse they all use Java 1.4.2 which is like the holy grail of CISCO equipment and some bank websites. It wont work on any other browser besides IE 6/7 with that java combo. Unless of course you want to upgrade ... HA that would cost money silly.
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Today. I use on a daily basis browser-based Java software that I could not do my job without.
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The good thing about the plugin is that Java is the only credible cross-platform sanboxed execution environment, and by having the plugin there's a large incentive to find any bugs in the sandbox. With every breach fixed, Java gets more secure.
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Cisco AnyConnect :(
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So when was the last time you actually needed that Java-plugin in your browser?
About an hour ago. Still plenty of enterprise applications reliant upon Java. For home use, never. My only personal usage of Java comes from a Java remake of Dungeon Master.
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Today I finally got Aleks (an online learning system that uses Java) to work in Linux (I had the jar file in the wrong directory).
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I (unfortunately) beg to differ. The two major (Sabre [wikipedia.org] (Sabre.Red), Amadeus [wikipedia.org] (Selling Platform)) GDS' reservation platforms are Java based. Once upon a time they had dedicated (Windows) clients, but as with anything in the 2000s, they had to go "to the Internet", make it "browser-based". Bad move.
Java, it's the new Flash (Score:2)
for malware.
Wowzers (Score:5, Funny)
Good thing we use Java 1.4.2 at work. Looks like I am safe
Oracle, did you learn from last time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oracle, did you learn from last time?
1. Have you publicly acknowledged the exploit?
2. Have you given at least some idea of how it works?
3. Have you given any mitigation instructions or will people simply have to uninstall your product since your not saying how to mitigate this?
4. Have you given any type of public communication along the lines of "were working on it"?
5. Are you giving any type of eta for a hot fix?
6. Have you learned that saying, we'll fix a critical exploit on one billion machines at the regular quarterly update schedule is not acceptable?
Home sick today or I would have been neck deep in this all bloody day. Haven't had a chance to look and see if they learned from their last royal clusterfuck or not.
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Answer:
They dropped all the vulnerable functions and re-added them with new names. As such, the exploits no longer work.
Fixed!
(And for the newbs who think this is a joke... guess again, true story. Thanks, Oracle!)
Not that anyone is affected (Score:2)
Java was replaced by Flash long ago, and now even Flash is being replaced by HTML5. I have always disabled Java browser plugins exactly because it's unsecure. Five years ago this discovery may still have had some impact, but hardly anyone uses Java applets these days.
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Go to my workplace. HTML 5 can not happen as we and millions around the world still use IE 7 and are still working on partial CSS 2 support all with java applets that the beancounters see no need to upgrade as it would come out of the CEO's bonus.
You expect us to replace our 200k Cisco equipment because CiscoConnect requires Java 1.4.x and XP? I THINK NOT.
Bank of America's corporate portal, Manpower, KRONOS (if you had an hour job you used such a system), all require ancient java that is administred only by
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What about the java problem?
Thanks a lot Oracle? (Score:2)
I didn't realize Oracle made Java 5