Start-Up Founders On Dealing With Depression 257
v3rgEz (125380) writes "Founders at a number of Boston startups shared their stories of building and growing a company while battling depression. One founder didn't even realize he was depressed until glucose and blood tests came back normal, while another said it was worse than her life struggles growing up in the projects. All shared different coping mechanisms. Any advice for dealing with the same?"
Oh yeah it can be tough (Score:5, Interesting)
When I ran a start-up, I remember the pressure being crazy. I believe I had gastric reflux pretty bad. Then when it failed (like most start-ups do), it hit pretty hard. The good news is that it was an incredible experience, and I learned a great deal about business and life from it.
Re:Oh yeah it can be tough (Score:4, Funny)
Giving up sex for more office hours.
Bad things happen.
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Cue George Costanza.
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Thank you for being kind enough to wait until I'd finished eating.
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Lights out at 9PM, Alex.
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I have never been a patient in a mental hospital.
And I didn't have Fruit Loops for dinner, I had hänt i veckan (also known as pytt i panna) with a couple of fried eggs on top. It's quite popular here. You should try it sometime.
Re:Oh yeah it can be tough (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason I like this book is because the techniques employed are lab tested; it is not a "feel good" book; it's a book that describes how to deal with the thoughts that cause depression - i.e. cognitive distortions, and how to "talk back" to those distortions in ways that effectively disarm them. Feeling Good is available for about $10 from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-... [amazon.com]; it is used by therapists all over the world and is probably the most effective book of its kind. btw, this book is also helpful for people who are just going through a rough patch, but are not depressed.
Get a conventional job and arrangement. (Score:2)
As Ricardo's comparative advantage would say: Not everyone is fit to handle a start-up, nor should they be pushed to it by policies making every other condition second-class.
Of course, that may not fly well with some.
There's only one thing; (Score:5, Informative)
There's only one piece of advice those who think they may be suffering from anxiety or depression need: Seek professional help as soon as possible, and ignore the ignorant fuckers who tell you to just man up and move on.
The level and type of professional help you'll need may be a counselor, may be full on treatment - but you'll never regret it.
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Re:There's only one thing; (Score:5, Insightful)
So my advise is seek professional help from a qualified psychiatrist who will probably recommend a good counsellor. Do not accept a script from an ordinary GP, ask for a referral to a physiatrist for a second opinion. Above all educate yourself enough about any drugs you are given, especially the unwanted side-effects that can be far worse than the anxiety attacks. Used properly the drugs are effective, I have more friends that have benefited from their correct use than have suffered from incorrect use.
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LOL! My friend started taking zoloft and ended up getting kicked out of a bar for trying to spin a stool on his finger... over and over again, because in his warped world, he was spinning it for a long time before it fell. Then he went out to the parking lot, and assaulted some guy who was making out with a woman. He thought he was batman and that he was saving her from an attack.
Luckily, he escaped the police and a family member got him better treatment; involved quitting the startup, changing medications,
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Indeed, may I add one caveated to that, educate yourself on what the professional advises, read the labels and be aware of the side-effects of anti-anxiety pills such as Zoloft, mixed with regular alcohol I've seen at least 4 middle aged friends have their lives totally wrecked by that particular combination, two of whom ended up spending time in jail, not to mention the distress caused to their partners and kids...
Used properly the drugs are effective, I have more friends that have benefited from their correct use than have suffered from incorrect use.
You've listed four friends who had their lives wrecked and your conclusion is that "used properly the drugs are effective"? The lesson I would draw from this is that there are other approaches which are shown to be at least as effective in managing depression for many people- exercise, counseling, and sleep training- that do not destroy people's lives and land them in jail. So instead of running to the doctor for a Zoloft prescription, a more sensible treatment plan would be to implement some of the non-dr
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Pretty much this, yeah.
You know, if any other part of your body hurt or stopped working as-expected, you'd probably go to a doctor pretty early on. But we have this cultural ideal that "willpower" is a virtue, so people want to "be strong". But you know, if stamina were a "virtue", would that mean that you should just laugh it off if you suddenly couldn't do normal things without being out of breath? No, it would not.
Re:There's only one thing; (Score:4, Insightful)
Experiences like that tend to happen if you have dealt with a bad professional or ignored professional advice (or in a rare case, have a lifelong imbalance of some sorts, in which case alternatives might not work anyway). You should be using the antidepressants to help with sources of problems, to help you get back on your feet so you don't need them anymore. Unfortunately, too many people go to a GP and demand something, get a prescription, then never follow through with actually fixing or dealing with things.
The antidepressants are supposed to be like a bandage that stops a wound from getting infected, poked at, and gives it a chance to heal. Except in this case the healing is not a passive thing usually, and you need to be working on making things better once you have motivation to get things done, with or without the help of counseling. The only reason most people should see an increase in dosage is because the original dosage didn't work from the start, not because of tolerance build up, and then as things progress they should be lowering dosage with time. At the very least, any reasonable professional should be quite aware of withdrawal issues and not mistake it for just needing to go back on the drugs.
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There is a lot of evidence that these drugs can be effective in the short term, but there's little if any evidence to suggest that they're effective in the long term. In fact, a number of studies suggest that in the long term, antidepressants cause worse outc
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These "bleeds" don't heal, these people were never meant to stand in the first place.
Kindly go die in a fire.
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Hey, guess what--this one's a bit different!
Hey, guess what--I'm not Jewish!
Perhaps you were fooled by my imitation Yiddish accent, which I'm told is quite good for someone who's never set foot in Brooklyn. I also do pretty fair US Midwestern, US Southern (I'm equally proficient in both the Deep South and Appalachian Hilljack variants thereof), Aussie/Queenslander, Aussie/Sydneysider, German, Russsian, Swedish, and several other foreign/regional accents.
I also tell great fishing stories, and I can recite se
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I'm not the one who's posted the same link a half-dozen times or more in the same thread, Alex.
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Eh, what? Who said anything about antidepressants?
I've been in treatment for depression for some years, and my counsellor has never had me take any. Or even suggested that I do.
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more sunlight, better excursive, counseling, better diet (normally meaning more veggies), and getting a pet
Sounds a lot like what my counsellor tells me I should do.
She's got a Master's in Psych, a PhD in Behavioural Therapy and Family Counselling, and about 15 years experience working with addicts, depressed people, and messed-up relationships and families.
What've you got?
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That post makes it quite clear I'm not on any meds, nor have I been, nor have any been prescribed for me.
Your post makes it clear that you've extremely poor reading comprehension.
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Well, then, let's hear all about your many accomplishments that have made you such a smashing success.
We've already seen "ability to make one hyperlink and use it over and over", so you can skip that one.
Do go on, Mr Role Model, we're all waiting.
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"a lot like" != "exactly the same"
Your friend's case sounds like what I'd call "the exception that proves the rule". I doubt that a reasonable professional would suggest getting a dog to someone with a severe fear of them, either.
Actually, in my case, she suggested it was maybe time for me to seek a new partner or at least some dates (I'd been separated for a year or two from my ex) rather than a pet (which at that time I already had).
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Why should we not feel the full spectrum of emotions we can?
Pretend for a moment that your full emotional spectrum runs from "not especially unhappy" to "hate myself/want to die".
Being a chronic depressive means: There are times when you are simply not capable of feeling happy, and "not especially unhappy" is about the best you can hope for.
Do you now have a clue as to why your question is a very silly one?
Gratuitously stolen, but... (Score:5, Funny)
"Yes, it's called Everyone. we meet at the bar."
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News flash: the drunks at the bar may think they're just like "everyone," but most people are not at the bar.
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News flash: the drunks at the bar may think they're just like "everyone," but most people are not at the bar.
I don't go to bars. They depress me.
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Um.... (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe try getting professional help? Instead of asking Slashdot? Just saying.
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"Professional help" does not have a high success rate for treating depression.
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That may be true, but what exactly is "treating depression?" My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that depression treatment is not really even intended to cure the patient's condition. Rather, treatment is intended to improve the condition to the point that the patient can at least function normally, even while they're still sad/stressed/whatever. The question is, are psychiatric professionals successful at that goal? The few people I have known that have suffered from depression say that treatment w
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I am willing to bet that it has much better success rate than asking questions on Slashdot.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
One founder didn't even realize he was depressed until glucose and blood tests came back normal
If his results were normal why would that indicate he had depression?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
Because depression presents in all kinds of weird ways.
In this case "started to get dizzy and feel sick" could have been anything.
Once blood work ruled out physical problems, that's when you start looking for psychological ones.
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I thought depression is still a "physical" problem, although not one immediately obvious in blood tests? Otherwise why would you prescribe drugs altering the brain chemistry (which is beyond the blood-brain barrier)?
Because there's good money in pharmaceuticals?
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I thought depression is still a "physical" problem, although not one immediately obvious in blood tests? Otherwise why would you prescribe drugs altering the brain chemistry (which is beyond the blood-brain barrier)?
Because there's good money in pharmaceuticals?
Because it's a crap shoot. There is no physical test for most forms of depression, it has to be diagnosed by professional investigation, subject to whatever current psychiatric fads are in effect.
And likewise, there's no magic bullet treatment for depression, despite what impression the drug commercials might give. One person's relief may do nothing for another, and the side-effects can often be so annoying that even if an effective drug is discovered, the patient may not use it effectively. I refuse to buy
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One of the symptoms of depression is fatigue and decreased energy
So if I'm tired and don't have any energy does that mean I'm depressed?
What's the difference between depressed and just being tired from working too hard or being burnt out?
Basically, if you don't know you're depressed, how do you decide when it's time to be "tested" and are
there even any "tests" that can be done to determine if you are depressed if you aren't displaying classic
symptoms?
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What's the difference between depressed and just being tired from working too hard or being burnt out?
If you feel tired from working too hard or being burnt out you are depressed. If taking a 3 day weekend, sleeping in late in a hotel in a different city, getting more exercise and sunshine doesn't make you feel refreshed and relitalized, your head is going to a dark place sooner or later.
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If you are tired from working too hard then your body can recharge. Taking a weekend completely away from work can bring you back to normal. If your levels of exhaustion get worse then it can take longer. When a complete two-week break from work cannot undo the damage and bring you back to a normal level it is a sign that your body has adapted to a new level of normal.
I'm not sure that there is a real difference between burn out and depression. They probably overlap to some extent and share symptoms. I thi
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But if you rule out a reasonable amount of everything else, attempting to treat depression may give results.
Depression is weird (Score:2)
And does this mean that for some people of this class antidepressants (chemical and psychological) have the effect of actually dulling insight and brilliance?
Be depressed, be brilliant: Be happy, be dumb.
Life is such a bitch.
Re:Depression is weird (Score:5, Insightful)
Depression is weird
No, its really, really simple actually, even depressingly so. When you're smarter than everyone else, they all team up to try to destroy you. This is very stressful and the effect of the stress is quite distracting in a way that is nearly constant, even when not being actively bullied at that moment. Imagine how much smarter our most brilliant minds would be if they weren't tormented by mainstream society and their "peers" practically from the cradle to the grave.
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As illustrated by this comedy sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Depression is weird (Score:5, Informative)
No lollipop for you. Getting angry doesn't make you more intelligent. Angry people are famous, in fact, for doing really stupid things.
However, at least some forms of depression seem to be related to obsession. You receive what most people would think of as a minor emotional injury and you can't let go of it. It drags you down constantly as it replays over and over in your head.
Receiving a MAJOR emotional injury where "they all team up to try to destroy you" is more likely to end up with a major shooting incident or the like.
Obsession can be crippling when it comes to handling injuries, but obsession IS considered a sign of genius when you can't let go of a creative idea and keep pursuing it long after sensible people would have dropped it.
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Where did the parent poster claim angriness leads to intellience? Are you the type of person who actively tries to misunderstand other people? Even if your parent poster did make the mistake of using intelligence as the differentiating factor, you could have understood his message and generalize "when you're smarter" into "when you're different".
Because it does not matter who an individual is different, in some circles ze will get bullied for it.
Well, the grandparent post asserted that getting depressed makes you intelligent, but that's just absurd. Otherwise the landscape would light up with genius every time someone got depressed.
On the other hand, being bullied makes me angry.
You big bully, you.
Re:Depression is weird (Score:5, Interesting)
When you are depressed you are supposed to have lower mental activity, and yet some of the most brilliant people have been known to be clinically depressed [citation not needed]. So then, if depression sometimes comes with brilliance, what gives?
Here's a weird analogy that seems roughly accurate:
Being depressed is like being perpetually out of gas. You just can't *do* anything.
Now, your average person's brain is a typical Honda 90 horsepower engine. Good gas mileage, terrible performance.
Your average genius's brain is like a Ferrari V8 - super-high performance, but at the cost of needing a LOT more fuel.
If everyone's getting the same amount of emotional 'fuel' from their friends, family, culture, society etc., who's going to run out first?
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I prefer the following response to the "Just get over it/MAKE yourself be happy" crowd.
I'm naturally buoyant. I can pretty much float in water until I pickle to death. Almost no effort required to keep my head above water.
Depression is like what happens when I put on a scuba weight belt. I can still keep my head above water, but I'm having to MAKE myself be buoyant (so to speak) by more actively treading water. Eventually, however, the extra effort required is going to tell, I can't keep treading and I'll g
Re:Depression is weird (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a condition known as "manic depressive disorder." Essentially, you can have a day where you're feeling so great that you decide to move all of the furniture in your house, repaint the living room, run a mile, begin a novel, and more. You have tons of energy and can do it all. And then you crash into the depression stage where getting out of bed is a major achievement.
There were some very brilliant people who did some wonderful things in their manic stages only to sink into horrible depression stages (sometimes committing suicide while in these).
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There is a condition known as "manic depressive disorder." Essentially, you can have a day where you're feeling so great that you decide to move all of the furniture in your house, repaint the living room, run a mile, begin a novel, and more. You have tons of energy and can do it all. And then you crash into the depression stage where getting out of bed is a major achievement.
These days it's called Bipolar Disorder. and it comes in two varieties, Bipolar I and Bipolar II. Bipolar I is the classic Manic Depressive disorder. In BPII the ups tend to be much milder and shorter, and the depression tends to be more chronic. BP I is pretty hard to miss- the manias tend to be the kind of thing that land you either in the hospital or in jail. But a lot of people suffering from depression may actually suffer from BP II. The highs in Bipolar II are hypomanic- they're characterized by being
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I would add that treatment for Bipolar Disorder of either variety is more than initially seeking help--it's a commitment to staying helped. I have BP-I, diagnosed many years ago and well-treated since then. I have a great psychiatrist, and was lucky enough to have hit upon a mix of drugs without too much trial and error that work for me and keep me pretty stable without too many side effects. Given the crapshoot that is psychiatric pharmacology, I've had a really good outcome.
But, having tasted the highs
Prozac, Prozac, Prozac (Score:2)
It's all about the meds...
Depression (Score:5, Informative)
High performance requires high maintenance. Just the way the universe works (entropy and all).
Depression may be an evolutionary stable strait, meaning like pain receptors, it may be there to protect you.
Here are some things I know after studying it for many years, and experiencing it for many years:
1. Get your Thyroid checked (TSH, free T3). Stress among many other things can bring it down and create depression. Even if you are young: Dr.s won't begin testing until you are middle-aged, typically, so ask for it.
2. Walking every day or other healthy exercise is shown to reduce mild to moderate depressive symptoms in studies over and over again
3. Take a B complex vitamin that contains Niacin. Take choline and L-Glutamine for brain food. Look these up.
4. Make sure your blood sugar stays stable. Read up on hypoglycemia. Standard protocol is protein every meal and have 5 small meals a day.
5. Acknowledge your limits and adapt around them.
5. If your thyroid is fine and you are still suffering with depressive symptoms it's time to look at either lowering stress in your life or getting with a good Dr. to help adapt.
Depression will one day be found to have many types I think. It will fool you too by making you think you have thoughts that are your own, but they are as much influenced by mood as your deliberate effort to think. This means simply, if you are depressed, your judgement is not good. That's why support systems are important, but get to good Dr. Your life may depend on it. Oh, and most cases of depression can be remedied.
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Advice from someone with chronic depression: (Score:2, Informative)
Don't listen to "successful" people telling you about their "battle with depression". Their experiences are always atypical and usually represent a mild condition. The obsession with listening to heroes, as if a person who is good/lucky with one thing is competent at everything, is thoroughly harmful.
Instead, obtain professional help, and (within that professional framework, if possible) seek peer support from regular people with regular lives. Depression is often made worse by the sufferer's filtered/disto
Go out and smell the flowers once in a while (Score:5, Insightful)
People who spend dark to dark in their offices often lose sight of life, while scrambling to the top. Give your endorphins a chance to work out, too. We're all headed to the grave, make sure your journey there isn't all work and no play.
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People who spend dark to dark in their offices often lose sight of life, while scrambling to the top. Give your endorphins a chance to work out, too. We're all headed to the grave, make sure your journey there isn't all work and no play.
Listen to you trying to get me to go home early so you can weasel your way past me to the corner office. I'm onto you, you scheming bastard. You and your bloody endorphins are headed to the grave sooner than you might imagine.
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Seriously, a little work-life balance? Radical concept, I know.
My oldest sister informed her work-aholic husband she was tired of him not coming home from the office, he was already a success and it was time to delegate some responsibility. He didn't take it seriously and was shocked when she finally filed for divorce.
IMHO, she could have found more to do with her own time, but guess she was too lovey-dovey to be alone.
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Perhaps she wanted a husband rather than a boarder.
Some people are strange like that--they seem to expect their partner to be, well, you know, a partner.
Man The Fuck Up -- Take Drugs -- Talk It Out (Score:5, Interesting)
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5-HTP
The Highs and Lows can be a mess (Score:4, Informative)
I once had to work in a highly stressful environment. I started doing more and more exercise out of work to just forget it all. I stopped having appetite. Eventually I started losing weight really fast. I also started sleeping less and less. I finished and delivered the project to the client, then left.
Afterwards I stopped working for a while. My sleep instead of improving got even worse. It came to a time where I did not sleep for 3 days straight. That was when everything started going bonkers. I got highly irritable at the slightest things. Blood pressure went down for no reason at all. I went to the hospital to get some diagnosis on my sleeping problems. While I was waiting for my appointment I lost consciousness. When I woke up I was lying in an hospital bed.
When I finally got a proper diagnosis and got proper medication, a trial in itself, my condition improved. After a couple of months I went back to work again.
My advice to you is if you are in a stressful work environment either change your conditions or leave it ASAP. Preferably prevent it from happening in the first place. Try to keep a private life outside of work in order to avoid getting stuck into mind loops. If you keep doing the same workload that is causing you to be stressed under the medication you may come off the rails. I have seen it happen. This condition is a lot more frequent than people would like to admit it. For whatever reason it seems to be anathema to discuss this subject in Western societies. Even if a lot of famous people e.g. Winston Churchill suffered from it.
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No it isn't worth it. But one way to endure such a work environment better is to bring some headphones and listen to music when you are working on something.
Most open plan offices I have been in have some visual barriers so you cannot see everyone at once. The visual barrier may be a book stand, or some plants. When done properly it works. Otherwise the environment is too noisy to work in.
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PS: Noise cancelling headphones work even better.
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Headphones are good for blocking out noise, but often can make anxiety problems worse because it makes it a lot easy for people to unintentionally sneak up and startle you while you're trying to work. Which means that you can end up looking over your shoulder constantly to see if someone is behind you. Now, if you can arrange things so that no one can sneak up on you then it can be great, but in an open office plan it's nearly impossible.
How I deal (Score:5, Informative)
I've suffered from chronic depression all my adult life, but I didn't want to medicate unless it was a medicine which could cure me, which doesn't exist (yet). I've been an entrepreneur for most of my 20+ year career. Here's how I "self-medicate":
There's no one thing that seems to have done the trick, and it's not a perfect cure. I still have "down days," but I feel a lot better off overall than I used to. I think the hardest thing for anyone to do would be to cut their TV, cell phone, and car out of the picture, but I have to say, these were some of the most helpful things I did. Not only did they dramatically reduced bills but also reduced lots of stress and distractions. Granted, I can find plenty of distractions with my copious internet bandwidth, but at least they're more self-directed.
Re:How I deal (Score:4, Insightful)
I didn't want to medicate unless it was a medicine which could cure me, which doesn't exist (yet)
Got a medical marijuana certificate. Best when used judiciously.
I am not sure how to reconcile these two. Selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors count as medicine, but partial CB1 agonists do not?
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It is an extremely common view these days (Score:2)
I know a lot of people, my sister included, who have a big issue with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor, but no issue with taking drugs purchased from a dealer. The logic can be pretty strange. For example I was talking with her about looking in to trying an anti-anxiety medication. My family all has issues with that, but she is far worse than the rest of us. My parents and I take low doses of SSRIs for it and it seems to help a lot. Thus it would probably be worth a try for her, since we have a great dea
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I know a lot of people, my sister included, who have a big issue with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor, but no issue with taking drugs purchased from a dealer.
No offense, but I'm not your sister, and I can articulate why I went this route. :)
I pointed out to her that it was completely my choice to take an SSRI, I could stop any time I wished, they aren't addictive, there is no court or medical order that requires me to take it, I continue to take it because I find it useful.
That's not entirely true. Some SSRI's cannot be stopped: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
However it is silly to be ok with THC and LSD and the like, but not with an SSRI.
Now please don't anyone mistake me for saying "Everyone should take SSRIs." No, not at all. However if a professional suggests they, or another drug, may be useful to treating a condition you have, you shouldn't say "No I won't take drugs," but then go out and smoke a joint. That is just silly. That would be like then refusing to use marijuana if a doctor prescribed it.
At least in California, to get your certificate, marijuana has to be prescribed by a doctor. I just renewed mine last week. You have to fill out a pretty extensive questionnaire about other drugs you're taking, how it affects you, how much you're using it, and your health history in general. The doctor took my blood pressure, which
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Wow, is there anything else than productivity in your life ?
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I meant: are you able to do nothing ?
I believe that you identify yourself too much with your actions.
When you don't produce anything, you feel empty and that's the cause of your depression.
But it's not really depression, it's just a fear of emptiness.
Being very active will not solve this emptiness, it just exacerbates it.
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Eat more fish and vegetables.
There's increasing evidence that diet may play a role in mental illness. I've always been skeptical of the low-carb craze and the recent war on sugar. However, it's been shown that a number of neurological disorders do respond to carbohydrate reduction. One is epilepsy, which can respond to a very low carbohydrate (ketogenic) diet. In these diets, sugar and carbohydrates are cut out, and the body primarily burns fat for fuel. The other is bipolar II. There are a couple of documented case studies of bipolar
Group Depression (Score:4, Insightful)
When I worked as an engineer at McDonnell Douglas and things were spiraling down... I watched as the energy required to do a small task seemed to require a herculean effort to complete... Seemed that each day there was less employees to do the work... and each of them had less energy to "make it happen"... I have been fortunate not to have to experience this over and over like some individuals have. My heart goes out to those who suffer with depression and with those who struggle maintaining ... whether it is maintaining a job or trying to maintain consciousness to man up and get by.
Entrepreneurship vs. mental illness: distinct? (Score:4, Informative)
One model claims that manic depressive tendency is under-recognized and over-represented among entrepreneurs. This sounds intriguing, but I must admit not being aware of any data that directly support the claim.
Another factor is post-mission depression. Here, we have something in common with military people, aid workers, and religious missionaries returning from deployment. One's life was for a time directed by a highly directed sense of purpose and mission, held in common with one's principal cohort. This often was within an organizational structure that made high demands, but diverted attention toward the mission and away from unknowns and uncontrollables. When the mission ends, the coherence and structure end with it.
Startup culture can reward what in other contexts would be seen as manic and obsessive/compulsive behaviors. In a bubble market with an IPO pending or recently made, it can be difficult to distinguish reality from illusion from delusion. For a while, one's life can evolve toward an obsessive focus upon one number: a stock price.
Spoken from experience.
one size does not fit all (Score:2)
Not all depressions are alike, and not all sufferers are alike.
Some depressions are biological, some are caused by situation; (before diagnosing yourself as depressed, first determine whether or not you are in fact, surrounded by assholes - to paraphrase Twain, I think). Seeing a doctor can help, but sometimes, seeing the wrong kind of doctor can screw you up worse. Some doctors just want to push pills at you. And sometimes, it's the wrong kinds of pills, or sometimes, the problem isn't one that pills can
This sucks... (Score:2)
Drugs (Score:2)
Lots of drugs.
Better intestinal health--better mental health (Score:4, Informative)
SSRIs work reasonably well for a lot of people to help with depression. But that depends on how much serotonin you have in reserve and whether or not the depression is actually caused by low serotonin. One of the major places your body stores serotonin is in the intestinal lining. If you eat a diet that is more conducive to intestinal health, you’ll store serotonin better. Meanwhile, 5-HTP supplements are like eating pure serotonin (there’s actually a two step conversion process from 5-HTP to Tryptophan to Serotonin, IIRC, but 5-HTP passes through the blood-brain barrier much more easily than Tryptophan). And if you are too low in serotonin, an SSRI won’t help, because there just isn’t enough serotonin to reputake inhibit.
Some people are low on norepinepherine too, so an MD might prescribe an SSNRI. Tyrosine (which you can also get in pill form) is a precursor to dopamine, norepinepherine, and epinepherine. Another way to boost dopamine is low-dose (i.e. 4.5mg) naltrexone (LDN), prescribed for a variety of things including chronic fatigue and autoimmune diseases; it’s a dopamine receptor antagonist that causes the brain to produce a net surplus of dopamine. Some people with mood problems also benefit from supplementing GABA, but that never worked for me or my wife, so I don’t know much about it, except that GABA is inhibitory in some parts of the brain and excitatory in others, making it have the opposite of the desired effect for some people.
Another mood enhancer is Theanine. You can get it in pill form, but a great source of that is Kombucha, which is fermented tea. It’s also loaded with antioxidants and probiotics. The probiotics and possibly the moderate amount of vinegar are also helpful for digestion problems.
Getting back to intestinal health, some people have a mild sensitivity to things like dairy (casein, lactose), wheat (gluten), and/or soy. Removing those from your diet may reduce tissue inflamation that interferes with good intestinal function. My kids can’t have dairy in winter. That’s when all these colds and other infections go around. Dairy causes just enough additional inflammation that when they pick up a bug, they much more prone to ear infections that require antibiotics (which tend to also kill off a lot of good bacteria). In small children, eustachian tubes aren’t fully developed and tend to have drainage problems. If we keep them off dairy (they get calcium and protein from other sources), proper drainage prevents ear infections from getting out of hand, and although they probably pick up various infections anyway, the symptoms are so mild that there’s no need to take them to the doctor. IIRC, when I was a kid, my parents observed that if I had too much dairy, I’d get phlemmy and have more trouble with colds and such. The dairy might also directly interfere with immune function. Anyhow, removing that may seem like a mild food irritant can actually have a substantial positive impact on intestinal function due to reduced inflammation and as a result better mucosal lining and better serotonin storage.
Other amino acids people often take to enhance intestinal health (e.g. people diagnose with celiac disease who require a great deal of gut rebuilding) include glycine and glutamine. Google that for more.
Not to get mystical or anything, but everything in the human body is a lot more connected than is suggested by what you learn superficially in high school biology. Why would the human body store serotonin (an important brain neurotransmitter) in the intestinal lining? I don’t know. Because there was no selective pressure not to? Perhaps the mucosal lining that partly serves to protect your tissues from getting digested themselves just happens to be good at suspending other things the body needs to store. Either way, the link is well established (see http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/16/6348.full.pdf in the Journal of Neuroscience, for instance). Some things may seem obvious, like maintaining proper blood sugar levels (prefer low glycemic foods) and making sure you get enough protein are good for mental function; in fact, the link goes much deeper. Eat well, and you’ll think well.
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Don’t be surprised if your MD doesn’t know about it. Some people will lump it in with junk like homeopathy, even though the chemical properties are very straight-forward. MDs don’t know about alternative treatments and/or nutrition because they don’t study this in school. I once had a gastroenterologist tell me that he didn’t believe in food allergies, so I wasn’t too impressed. On the other hand, a DO is more likely to know about these things.
Anyhow, this isn’t
Been there.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the most important medicine is to surround yourself with people who care and are able to support. Me and my colleagues started a business. Things are going well now but I had those bout of depression before (including thoughts of suicide.) Before, I felt alone in an island. The image of me being perfect was so high that I didn't open up to other people.
Now, it is different, I've learned to share and ask for support from my family and close friends. I have learned that I am not superman and I do make mistakes. I have learned to take care of myself and love myself more. :) Life is so much better now. :)
P.S. May be one bonus for me is that I am generally a happy person living a simple life. Though one disadvantage is that if bad things happen, it does probably hit me harder than other people. I also didn't take any prescription medicine.
Remediate the biochemistry (Score:2)
Niacin, B6, C, Zinc.
Actually you should take a good hefty dose of all the vitamins and minerals from A-Z. Plus the important oils: EPA/DHA/ALA/GLA.
Maybe it won't work for you. But you might want to try to rule this out. It seems to have worked for a lot of people.
You think an above average brain can get by on the average amounts of these essential nutrients, which are precursors to the biochemical processses of thinkint and memory? Good luck with that.
Read Hoffer, Prousky et. al. in Google Scholar.
Alcohol, lots of alcohol (Score:2)
Learn how to drink great quantities of alcohol without incurring headaches. Water-flavoured "beer" doesn't cut it, you'd have to drink many liters of the thing which means too many bottles or cans around and you have to take a piss too often, and end up overworking your kidneys. That isn't healthy. Booze and other spirits is expensive and toxic. Have to keep a glass of water around else your mouth, body and eventually brain will dry.. not good.
Red wine is great, and exponentially healthier when you don't ge
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Money cannot buy happyness.
But you can rent it.
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And I, on the other hand, thought I suffered from depression, but then the blood tests came back and I turned out to have a substantial chronic hypoglycemia. So it goes. ;-)
(Oh, and then they told me that I'm a schizoid, so I still may be more inclined towards comorbid depression anyway. Crap.)
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When you suffer from chronic depression, every single day is a battle.
There are lots of folks out there who've never served in the armed forces, yet they fight such battles every day of their lives. Such people qualify as "heroes" in my book.
AND I AM ONE OF THEM. So go fuck yourself.
VItamin D, improved nutrition, exercise, REBT (Score:2)
These can sometimes help. A collection of health links I put together:
https://www.changemakers.com/d... [changemakers.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R... [wikipedia.org]
Laughter can help too. http://www.humorproject.com/ [humorproject.com]
Medically-supervised fasting can also help sometimes. http://www.healthpromoting.com... [healthpromoting.com]
Better nutrition implies avoiding various problematical food additives. http://fedup.com.au/factsheets... [fedup.com.au]
Getting enough sleep is also important of good health. Try to avoid looking at screens a couple hours before going to bed. And before
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Hey! Nice to bump into you again, Paul.
Yep yep yep. A lot of my issues seem to be due to or exacerbated by mild hypoglycaemia. Eating at fairly regular times and keeping junk food to a minimum seem to help a lot.
Vitamin D is a big help, especially here in Sweden where the amount of sunlight varies drastically (for me, almost catastrophically) between summer and winter. I take it daily. Seems to keep my internal clock synched better.
Cutting down a bit on the coffee and making myself drink more water has also
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Is that really the best you can come up with? Your time just might be more profitably spent selling pencils.
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One who is truly strong acknowledges his own weaknesses, and does not try to pretend that he has none.
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It's a double-edged sword. This from one who's been there.
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Don't you have a hosts file to write, or something?
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Silence lends assent.
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I heard your complete and utter failure to answer the question, yes.
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I used to practically worship the stuff, myself, and in those days, everything else in my life tied into that one way or another. I still partake occasionally, after abstaining for several years, but I've no wish to go back to having it run my life, and any time I feel like that might be starting to happen again, I get away from it for a few months.
Sometimes that makes me more tolerant of those who've not yet grown beyond the need to identify with it in quite that fashion. Other times, less so.