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Programming The Almighty Buck Education

13% of CompSci Grads Have Starting Salaries Over $100K 264

itwbennett writes: That was one of the findings of a survey of 50,000 U.S. college students and recent graduates by Looksharp, a marketplace for internships and entry-level jobs. For general findings across all majors, check out the State of College Hiring Report 2015. But the company shared some more computer science-specific findings with Phil Johnson. Among them: "Of all majors, students studying in CS had the highest average starting salary, $66,161." And, what's more, they know the value of their degree: "On average, they expected a starting salary of $68,120, slightly above the actual average starting salary of $66,161."
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13% of CompSci Grads Have Starting Salaries Over $100K

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  • Total (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crow_t_robot ( 528562 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:35PM (#50083789)
    Bullshit. Not believing any of this till I see paystubs.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah I work in engineering and starting salary expectations were similarly overinflated. These sort of claims mean nothing without a breakdown of what the averages are in different states and cities, starting salaries can easily vary by at least $20k depending on location.

      • Re:Total (Score:5, Informative)

        by knightghost ( 861069 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @02:26PM (#50084235)

        Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

        Lets see a breakdown that calculates geographical cost of living and hourly wages (rather than salary). $100k isn't much when you're working 100 hours a week and live in silicon valley.

      • by Bengie ( 1121981 )
        "Average" is kind of useless when you have a large variety that are directly dependent on the local market. I think a better metric would be what percentile the wage is relative to the local economy of where the job is located. Fresh out of college, I had a lot of jobs to choose from, all at or above the median household wage for the city it was located.
    • Re:Total (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:48PM (#50083895)

      Indeed. Employees have a vested interest in inflating these numbers. I have filled out these surveys multiple times, and I always put in about double my current salary. That way my employer thinks I am underpaid, and I am also more likely to get the free magazine subscription that the survey is supposed to qualify me for.

      • And that exposes the problem with big data/analytics:

        Errors, false positives, and bias grows 1:1 as the larger and fresher (more recent) datasets become. Until the big data tool can filter out & break this pattern, the big data answers of today are not telling the full story.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I tell recruiters not to contact me with anything under any 30% over the salary I'd accept. The job adverts always give a ridiculous spec in the expectation that they will use it to haggle you down, so I start high and sometimes get lucky.

    • Re:Total (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:58PM (#50083971)

      This is pretty common in insane cost-of-living places like the CA Bay Area. I finished my BSCS in December and am making 108k now. I had just under 3.5 GPA at a state school and a couple of good internships, so it's not too hard. Though that salary isn't even enough to buy a house here.

      • But it's enough to buy a few houses in less costly places and retire in a few years to a decade on rental income. At least this is what a few people I know did.
        Drawbacks are that you have to continue living like you did in college. It's worth it to some people.
      • That's completely ridiculous. $108K is more than enough to buy a house in the SF Bay Area... You just have to be "willing" (put in quotes since it's no problem) to live in suburbia.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Totally not bullshit out here in California, ESPECIALLY in the bay area.

      I just graduated and I'm making $100k at Citrix Systems in Goleta, CA as a Software Engineer 1

      That's about as high as you can get here in the Santa Barbara area out of school.

      Everyone I know from classes that went to the bay area are making over $100k out of school.

    • 13% of CompSci Grads are Routinely Lying in Surveys
  • geography is key (Score:4, Insightful)

    by swan5566 ( 1771176 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:45PM (#50083863)
    Where are these jobs? Silicon Valley? A small town in the Midwest?
    • by Anonymous Coward

      ...where they need $100k just to keep your head above water. The cost of living is ridiculous over there.

    • Maybe it includes at lot of 30 something's who went back to school. I made a good deal into 6 figures because I've been in my field for 15+ years. I'm just now going to school because I've always wanted the related degree. So when I graduate my 'first job after college' will be over 100k.

  • Undergrad only? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by assantisz ( 881107 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:47PM (#50083875)
    Are they talking about undergrads or did they include graduate students and PhD graduates as well? I really doubt that somebody fresh from college with an undergrad degree can make mid $60k right off the bat.
    • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

      In 2001 I got my undergrad CS degree. I started at 70K in San Diego. It wasn't uncommon to make mid 60s 14 years ago. That its over 100K now in the Valley is absolutely no surprise. Even in rural areas under 60K for a CS degree out of college is insultingly low.

    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      I was $55k right out of college 13 years ago. Those were, frankly, the easy jobs to get too.

    • Re:Undergrad only? (Score:5, Informative)

      by bmajik ( 96670 ) <matt@mattevans.org> on Friday July 10, 2015 @04:03PM (#50085057) Homepage Journal

      All of the numbers in this article are very believable.

      I have a BS degree from the University of Nebraska. And not the prestigious Raikes school, but the normal old pre-Raikes degree program.

      After a summer internship, I got an offer from McDonnel Douglas for 48k.

      My offer from Microsoft was more like the 60k figure. I took that one, because it didn't involve living in St. Louis.

      The year: 2000

      So, 60k to start right out of college was a going rate for top-tier companies... fifteen years ago.

      Some companies paid much more, and sometimes that was a company decision, and sometimes it was a reality of where the position was located. For instance, before I had even finished my degree, I was recruited for a position with a 99k starting salary. That firm, however, was in NYC. When you adjust for NYC cost of living, it's not such an eye-popping number.

      Subsequent to these numbers from 15 years ago, I have been involved in lots of hiring at Microsoft in the years I've been here.

      Starting salaries have adjusted upward significantly since I was hired.

      If you can score an engineering position with a top software/services company like Microsoft, you will be paid exceptionally well. For someone fresh out of college, there is just an obscene amount of money on the table.

      Different companies target different spots in the industry pay curve. Microsoft by no means targets the top of the salary scale, but neither do we target the bottom. At times, Microsoft has been seen as, to put it mildly, "pretty uncool". At times, there has been lots of startup money and equity available for top quality grads to go after.

      In those time periods, Microsoft has to offer more money to continue to attract new talent.

      If you want to work at a company where lots of people want to work (e.g. a games company, or SpaceX), those organizations don't have to compete as much with offer packages, since their brands have a high intrinsic draw.

      While I don't know what a Netflix offer package is like, Netflix states that their policy is to pay very high wages - the wage they'd be willing to pay to keep someone excellent who wanted to leave.

      Finally, it's important to consider the type of organization you're looking at joining. Do they do software/IT, or is that a cost of doing business for them? If a company is in the business of selling shoes, but has an unavoidable need for software engineers, they're going to treat software engineers as a cost of doing business.

      If a company is in the business of building software, they're going to think differently about compensation and retention.

      Finally, companies that aren't well established players in the software space can have difficulty making big offer packages. At times in my career, I've been frustrated and have looked elsewhere, and the smaller, less profitable companies I've spoken with are offering tens of thousands lower than what I was already making.... making the friction of leaving financially tremendous.

      (my personal financial plan is to expect a 50% paycut when something happens to my MSFT employment)

      In summary, I have no problem believing the numbers. Top quality CS people at top quality organizations are paid outrageously well.

      However, I get that lots of people are expressing disbelief. Let's talk about why that may be. The survey data could be skewed by multiple factors:
      - the locale of the person responding
      - the self-selection bias of the person responding (e.g. are people happy with their comp more likely to fill out a survey?)
      - the kind of organization the survey respondants work for...

      If you surveyed internal apps developers at regional insurance offices, in the Midwest, you would get a different picture from a survey of facebook engineers...

    • by Malenx ( 1453851 )

      2 years ago fresh out of undergrad with 3 internships during school summers got me started at $70k a year in Lansing Michigan.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:47PM (#50083883)

    This is why there is a major push to get the H1B program expanded and more women into CS. To drive down salaries. H1Bs can be abused by their employers at will(indentured servants anyone?) If anyone thinks that the gender pay gap is going to go away by more women getting into CS they're nuts. What's going to happen is, more women will get into CS related jobs as employers know they can get away with paying women 20% less.

    So..there is some food for thought for you....

  • by Anonymous Coward

    of the thousands of students in the poll... only about 350 were CS majors. Makes it kinda easy to have a skewed perspective.

  • by dav1dc ( 2662425 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:50PM (#50083899)

    $150k in Silicon Valley = $90k in a more modest location... (adjusted for the cost of living in the area)

    My $0.02 CDN.

  • by Pfhorrest ( 545131 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @02:02PM (#50084017) Homepage Journal

    I hope all these CS graduates making this kind of money right out of college realize the kind of rarefied strata that they are in.

    More than half of all people on the country make less than half of their starting salaries.

    I see so much flippancy from some people here in Slashdot who don't seem to realize the kind of money that most people in this country have to live on.

    • It's not so much being flippant as it is being sad reality.
      ~$250K is the "new" true starting 6-figure income
      $100K isn't sh*t nowadays (eg. IC physical design jobs have been hovering around $100K since 2000. Don't tell me inflation has not taken its toll in the last decade and a half)
      • Crap, meant to say ~$150K, maybe even closer to $200K.
      • I mean flippant in the sense that in various discussions people get blamed for not doing things to prevent their own problems, when those things presume a level of income that most people simply cannot access.

        For example someone here once blamed people who were suffering a supply shortage during an emergency for not keeping their pantry adequately stocked with emergency supplies, neglecting that a lot of people rent a tiny bedroom in someone else's house and don't have a pantry of their own to stock with em

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 10, 2015 @02:03PM (#50084021)

    Our survey found that only 45.4% of the class of 2014 is currently enrolled in a full-time job meaning 54.6% of grads from last year are unemployed or underemployed (this is excluding students enrolled in graduate education).

    This seems to be more noteworthy.

    • Our survey found that only 45.4% of the class of 2014 is currently enrolled in a full-time job meaning 54.6% of grads from last year are unemployed or underemployed (this is excluding students enrolled in graduate education).

      This seems to be more noteworthy.

      Oh it is! However, it doesn't fit the desired story line so we just ignore that little issue and start arguments about minimum wage and the confederate battle flag... The number of people not working in this country is a serious issue, but none of these unemployed graduates actually get counted in the headline unemployment numbers, so the Department of Labor doesn't have to report on them and the press doesn't have to report on it.

    • Obvious solution (not that anyone will do it): pay twice as many people half as much each. That would bring the incomes down into the actual median range, and eliminate the unemployment problem.

      • Oh and of course you require half as much work from each of them as well, so they're still getting the same value for their labor, they just have to labor less.

    • by TooManyNames ( 711346 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @02:59PM (#50084559)
      That statistic is for all college grads, though; not just those graduating with a CS degree. While that is noteworthy, it's not really relevant to the discussion on how CS grads are fairing.
    • Our survey found that only 45.4% of the class of 2014 is currently enrolled in a full-time job meaning 54.6% of grads from last year are unemployed or underemployed (this is excluding students enrolled in graduate education).

      This seems to be more noteworthy.

      Ah, so in fact, the average starting salary was only $50k when you factor in the salaries of the unemployed.

  • Bachelor's? Master's? Ph.D? All of them combined?
  • Not in Canada (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iONiUM ( 530420 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @02:12PM (#50084085) Journal

    I hire a lot of developers for my company, and recent grads are slotted in our "junior" role (unless they somehow had a lot of experience during university) and the starting salary is between $55-70k depending on many factors that are personal to them. I have never hired anyone out of university for $100k, and I think that is nuts. Companies should pay for quality, not ambition.

    • To be fair, 60-70k in most parts Canada probably goes as far or farther than 100k in the Silicon Valley area (Vancouver with its insane real estate market might be an exception). That's assuming a roughly equivalent exchange rate of course (I know it's fallen off a little in the past year or so, but as recently as 2 years ago it was roughly on par with $1CA to $1US).
    • I hire a lot of developers for my company, and recent grads are slotted in our "junior" role (unless they somehow had a lot of experience during university) and the starting salary is between $55-70k depending on many factors that are personal to them. I have never hired anyone out of university for $100k, and I think that is nuts. Companies should pay for quality, not ambition.

      At the company I was at before, they mocked the salary expectations of graduates who came in armed with average starting salaries. The people were coming in with numbers in the $50k area. But my company was only willing to pay about $30k for a recent graduate AND they expected them to be able to hit the ground running. Most of the developers there were not getting $50k even with 7 or 8 years of experience. I was getting more like $85k, but I was one of the founders and I had 27 years of experience. Then th

  • "13% of CompSci Grads Get Jobs in Silicon Valley or Redmond"

  • I think most folks are not reading this article right. The average starting salary is $66K. Being average, it means that half the graduates are paid far less than that amount. There's no mention of location as well which varies tremendously as living costs vary. I'm paid well under that average but where I live the amount they give me is considered quite good because of low living costs. This survey also probably doesn't include the unemployed as you can't report a salary if you can't find a job which

    • Actually since they used average we don't know the distribution. If they said median you would be correct, but with average there could be several large or small outliers that impacted the distribution.
  • Yeah, a $100,000/yr. salary there is barely enough to pay the rent.

  • If you're in Silicon Valey or New York City, you basically can't survive without a salary over $100K. On the other hand, if you live, for example, in Ohio or anywhere in Michigan other than Troy or Detroit, you can so better on half that.

    So what we really care to know is what are the salaries prorated for the local cost of living?

  • by hlee ( 518174 ) on Friday July 10, 2015 @03:13PM (#50084687)

    Actually, if you're willing to take a risk and join a startup and have stock options, you can stand to gain an incredible amount. Most startups fail, but finding another job shouldn't be a problem.

    What I suggest is to first find a relatively large stable corporation to work for after graduation. After 3-5 years experience, join a startup (do your research on them first of course) or a relatively new company that is planning to go public, and negotiate a nice chunk of stock options. It is likely there will be many long nights at work, but the energy and vibrancy will sustain you. Don't get married too early - if the relationship gets serious, live with each other for at least two years, and get a prenup.

    Best area for this sort of lifestyle is still the US west coast, home of the venture capitalists.

    But as another poster noted, it helps to have a certain love for this field that extends into your personal life - technologies evolve quickly enough that you should be constantly learning. From my fifteen years plus experience as a software engineer, there are very few people who have this sort of passion. Most prefer to settle into doing the same thing day in day out - their priorities shift elsewhere like to their families - the good news is that most larger companies need people like that, and still pay a decent salary.

  • $100K in California, equates to around $5.5k in hand (for a single person) per month. 1 BHK apartments are going around $2.5K per month in Mountain view.. much much higher in SF. $500 goes for your car payments. A new grad would probably try to pay off his education loan off, so can take around $1k per month out for that.
    Since bay area has a higher population of immigrants, you can assume that he is sending some share of the remaining money to his parents in his home country.

    $100K is not a lot in SF Bay are

  • I must be really low then. I barely make the average starting salary and I've been working for 17 years since getting my CS degree.
  • There has been a lot of talk of another tech bubble. A lot of money is going into a lot of silly startups.

    Before the other bubbles, there was a lot of speculation about "are we in a bubble"? About 2/3 the time the conclusion was "no", which turned out to be wrong.

    But on the flip side there has been speculation of a college loan bubble going on for several years, but we've yet to see the popping. But maybe a tech burst would also trigger a loan bubble burst as graduates couldn't pay off their loans.

    Caveat Em

Avoid strange women and temporary variables.

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