HP R&D Starts Enforcing a Business Casual Dress Code 480
An anonymous reader writes: HP was once known as a research and technology giant, a company founded in a garage by a pair of engineers and dominated by researchers. Whilst a part of that lives on in Agilent any hope for the rest of the company has now died with the announcement that HP R&D will have to dress in business "smart casual" with T-shirts, baseball caps, short skirts, low cut dresses and sportswear all being banned.
um...yay? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, who gives a shit.
Re:um...yay? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, this shirt:
I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet your shirt is sexist and ostracizing [imgur.com]
generated a shitstorm on the internet. So possibly HP management is feeling a bit gunshy. Nothing like nasty, screaming little facists trying to ruin your career over the irrelevant to ruin your day. Or week. Or month. Or even your career.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually that shirt was designed by a woman as a nostalgic cultural reference.
https://www.alohaland.com/pinu... [alohaland.com]
Academic feminist battleaxes, please keep your microaggressions on campus, where they won't disturb anyone in the real world.
Re:um...yay? (Score:4, Funny)
Who gives a shirt?
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Who gives a shirt?
Booth babes at trade shows?
Re:um...yay? (Score:5, Insightful)
Who fired a Nobel Prize laureate over a joke and why does he still have a job? Whoever fired him should be fired for damaging the company.
Seriously, Political Correctness is fine and cute, but when it gets to getting shit done, it's time to stop the silly games and concentrate on what really matters.
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Seriously, Political Correctness is fine and cute, but when it gets to getting shit done, it's time to stop the silly games and concentrate on what really matters.
PC always had a "you're screwed if you don't toe the line" attitude.
It was never fine and cute. It has always been about social control.
Re:um...yay? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well - if you start to push dress code at a work place it's a sure sign of that work place going down. There are more important issues to take care of for HP. And IBM also have serious problems.
At least as long as you dress reasonably well I don't see a problem.
Re:um...yay? (Score:5, Insightful)
IBM actually did very well with their dress code. It was a sales ploy, the company wanted to project an aura of reliable professionalism and they did.
Re: um...yay? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can understand a reasonable dress code to keep flip flops and non work attire to a minimum.
However, dressing like a professional doth not a professional make. HP would do well to remember that.
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However, dressing like a professional doth not a professional make. HP would do well to remember that.
I worked for a software house around 2000. They said they expected "professional" attire, including collared shirts (men & women) and knee-length skirts or dockers and better for pants. No jeans.
Now, that might actually seem reasonable... except for the fact that I sat in a cubical doing my programming and seldom even saw my co-workers, much less anyone else. So who the hell was I supposed to impress? My boss? There were only 5 programmers in the whole place, each to our own space. I seldom even glan
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Psychology -- the theory being that putting on work clothes puts you into a different frame of mind which is conducive towards work.
Frankly, I think it's BS, but that's the real answer. The HR droids believe (and lots of psychological experiments show) that when people put on certain clothes - especially uniforms - they tend to change their behaviors and thought processes. People who wear their pajamas all day tend to be calmer and lazier. Those who wear suits and ties tend to be more active. Women
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I tried. Wore suits for about 6 months. They felt uncomfortable. I was always wary of spilling a drop of juice or rubbing onto something dusty, my shirt wrists got dirty as shit by mid-day, I felt ridiculous overall (because I have long hair and long beard).
And yes it affected my productivity. Negatively, and very much so.
When I got back into jeans and $5 T-Shirts, man, it was heaven!
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I cannot trust a tech who dresses up like a fucking Ken doll.
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Most technical work doesn't create a visual means to tell that someone works in the field. Sure, there are self-imposed stereotypes like long hair and clothing with nerdy subject matter printed on, but I've seen people with strong technical abilities that were also fitness freaks and wore fitness clothing (and I don't mean sweatpants), I've seen ubertechs
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COBOL programming [google.com] being a notable exception.
Re:um...yay? (Score:4, Interesting)
With regard to IBM, having met one of their highly-paid technical consulting teams, I know what their problem is: Incompetence coupled with arrogance and no social graces. They also failed to solve their task for 3 years, when something similar took me a year to get to run reliably. Them being IBM, they actually got paid more for failing repeatedly, so at the moment the incompetence still works out for them, but eventually the customers will not be willing to pay a fortune for trash.
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes.
Seriously, the dress code at work is the number one thing I hate about my job right now. I don't feel comfortable in business casual. Plus, when you consider that HP folks already get little vacation time unless they've been there for 20 years. I got past the first round for the HP consulting division and bowed out after I saw the vacation time.
Re: So what? (Score:5, Informative)
Business casual doesn't even require suits. A shirt or even a polo shirt is fine.
All it requires is basically that you don't look like a hobo.
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I've found that "business casual" means a lot of different things as per workplace.
When I first started at a call center ages ago, "business casual" meant the people on the phones had to wear a suit, tie and jacket, but there was the relative luxury that the top button could be unbuttoned.
Another startup, "business casual" meant just three layers of food in your beard.
Still another place used the expression to mean that wearing a decent golf shirt tucked in is OK.
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I don't like dress codes either, but:
1. This is not a demand for $6000 suits, it's business casual. For men at least, I am skeptical that the workers don't own at least some polo shirts and slacks (I don't claim to know women's warddrobes). I happen to dress business casual by accident frequently.
2. These are HP engineers, not minimum wage manual labourers. They don't need an allowance to buy regular person clothes. They didn't need an allowance to buy their initial clothes either.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
> The security guard (they carried guns back then) wouldn't let me in because I was wearing short.
You need to also wear the other short. Just one short is crazy territory.
It's evident that mgmt is running out of scapegoat (Score:5, Insightful)
HP management is looking for scapegoat for their incompetence and has finally ran out of (other) scapegoats.
A sure sign of a company in trouble is when assholes at the top begins to blame people at the bottom for all the failings. I expect to see a lot of people shorting HP soon..
Re:It's evident that mgmt is running out of scapeg (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Who cares?
I care. A dress code sends a message about a company's culture. The stricter the code, the more that company cares about having a professional appearance, and less about professional performance.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is what Logic 101 would call a non sequitur.
the more that company cares about having a professional appearance,
Yes.
and less about professional performance.
No.
They are not mutually exclusive.
The institution I've been with the strictest dress code was the private school I went to - it also had near top national academic performance. The principle was not that people were required to waste time worrying about what they wore, but that people didn't worry about what they wore, as everyone was wearing the same thing: a well-fitting, comfortable, smart uniform.
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They are not mutually exclusive.
Yes they are. If a finite percentage of your evaluation is based on how you dress, then it is a logical necessity for other things to count for less. I have worked for a business that required ties. I have also worked for companies that required slacks and collared shirts. I currently work for a company that is fine with shorts, sandals and tank tops. The tie company was a defense contractor, that sucked up lots of tax dollars, but never delivered a working product. The collared shirt and slacks compan
Re:So what? (Score:4, Interesting)
On my first two commercial jobs (an aerospace giant, then IT in a California retail chain) it was still suits, ties and white shirts for all.
What did the women wear, you ask? What women?
Re:So what? (Score:5, Funny)
Is that why these guys were never able to land people on the moon?
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a... [nasa.gov]
Re: So what? (Score:3)
I take it you've never heard of Margaret Hamilton or Admiral Grace Hopper who somehow managed to excel in a much more sexist society than we have now because instead of whining about the patriarchy on Twitter or Jezebel, they went and proved themselves better than their male peers.
Re:So what? (Score:4, Funny)
Any way the wind blows.
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If you want to find someone who's going to climb the ladder and be successful, find one of the nicer dressed people. Not THE nicest dressed, he's trying to compensate for something. If you want to find someone who has skills that don't involve telling other people what to do, find the guy who is either not wearing clothes that are as nice, or looks like he doesn't quite belong in them.
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Clothing is among the fundamental elements of civilization. Clothes make the man -- always hated this, but seems true enough: dress affects behavior, behavior determines performance. It certainly doesn't seem fair that those among us with poor taste should be punished for it, but nearly everyone I've ever encountered is very quick to judge based on incredibly short and shallow impressions. If one desires success in corporate career, one will make themselves more attractive, less offensive, and embrace a level of vane pageantry. Yet most prefer to dress how they feel, or as an adjustment to their attractiveness to increase or decrease the level of their social engagement.
To expand - not necessarily contradict
Clothes don't make the man. Put an idiot in a $1000 suit and you have a well dressed idiot. Clothes make an impression on the viewer - and sometimes, they affect the behaviour of the wearer.
When it comes to impressions it depends on how educated the viewer is. To some, someone wearing black "slacks" and a white shirt is in "business clothes", to others the same person could be a waiter in a low-end café.
When I was younger I knew nothing about good clothes - just pr
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What purpose does dressing uncomfortably serve?
The MBA morons that judge based on clothes and not substance of ideas are what needs to go.
So what? Actually, this matters to me too.... (Score:3)
I don't think I ever showed up for a job wearing gym clothes. But jeans and comfortable short-sleeve polo type shirts, or even t-shirts in the summer months, and tennis-shoes? Definitely!
At one of my previous jobs, they hired a new woman in the H.R. department, and all of a sudden she decided she was going to enforce new dress codes. The word was, I.T. and software developers would no longer be allowed to wear jeans. Thankfully, our best Java developer was an ex-hippie who viewed this as an opportunity to g
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Dress codes are always praised by those that cannot offer anything else besides conformance. At the moment, many companies are getting rid of the creative thinkers (to their long-term detriment), and a dress-code is a good way to do that, as creative thinkers really hate spending time on complete side-issues like dress.
All it will do for HP is that the remaining (few) good engineers and scientists will take a hard look at their other prospects and some will leave. A tech company that does not place the tech
Ant technology! (Score:2)
"HP was once known as a research ant technology giant..."
I hear ant technology is the wave of the future!
Re:Ant technology! (Score:5, Funny)
A comma was missing:
"[...] as a research ant, technology giant [..]“
Seems reasonable. (Score:5, Funny)
HP tried to step back in history today (Score:4, Insightful)
HP tried to step back in history today to more profitable and professional times, unfortunately reality refused to cooperate and they were still bleeding money like a sieve. Worse, their engineers were now leaving because they were pissed off by the dress code.
Re:HP tried to step back in history today (Score:4, Insightful)
It'll sure save HP money, just like Yahoo (Score:5, Insightful)
... in severance packages. A hostile work environment will definitely reduce personnel.
Of course the smart people who have no problem finding another job will leave first.
Re:It'll sure save HP money, just like Yahoo (Score:5, Interesting)
This.
First pulling people back into the office after some have been telecommuting for years, often as HP's facilities have shrunk in most places - they are now expected to make the drive or relocate, regardless of the distance.
Our team has exactly 4 people in this state, and two of them will absolutely HAVE to quit if not given exemptions (which seems unlikely), and another will probably be gone by the end of the year.
They are effectively putting additional costs onto their employees, and want them to quit. Sadly, this (downright evil) tactic usually results in your best people leaving... and finding out that HP doesn't even pay engineers 75% of what their competitors do in the same geographical areas.
All that remains are the employees who either lack the confidence in their skills to feel that they are employable elsewhere... or those employees who lack the skills.
I don't think Meg has thought her cunning little plan all the way through.
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While I can certainly see how the first one would happen, if one actually lacks the skills to do their job, then shouldn't they have been fired already? Not being productive enough *is* a reason to let someone go.
Re:It'll sure save HP money, just like Yahoo (Score:5, Interesting)
The second happens when people join, typically fresh out of school, and never build their skills, always kind of hanging on in the fringe. It's quite easy in a large company like HP, too... it's harder to fire the same guy you wouldn't hire,so to speak.
A recent "Town Hall" had an executive telling us all that a manager would re-evaluate the positions that were left by personnel quitting (imagine that), including who they'd hire in that spot.
He also expected us to report to offices, even if there was no space, because engineers love to work off of 15" laptop screens, on laptop keyboards, while sitting on a bench at a cafeteria table (yes, he said we should make the "up to 95 mile" drive even if it means working in the cafeteria) as others wander around, eating and talking. The ultimate open office space.
So when a manager has to fire a direct report, it's a tough proposition... fire a warm body and possibly lose the spot outright, or let them hang in and keep your manpower up enough to keep your own job? They know these guys are borderline, but a big company is a machine unto itself.
If they do fire anybody... it usually ends up being based solely on salary and location, based on what I saw this past week - they WFRed a bunch of guys who were responsible for millions of lines of good, solid code. Tested, true libraries that have run for ages in hundreds of thousands of PCs.... people tossed aside on a whim from on higher up than the managers they report to. Why? Because again, a big company is a machine unto itself... often the actions of execs and the upper management is pure quackery, because they can be just as clueless as anybody else in an organization; it's also a bit worse, because it's a club of privileged people who protect each other from personal failure, even at the expense of the companies they run.
That'll teach those engineers... (Score:5, Funny)
... strutting around in their low cut shirts and bare midriffs... And do we really need to see your tramp stamps?
In other news, Jerry that keeps showing up to work in his S&M gimp suit will switch to a more work appropriate polo shirt. Thanks for ruining it for everyone Jerry... you jackass.
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... strutting around in their low cut shirts and bare midriffs... And do we really need to see your tramp stamps?
In other news, Jerry that keeps showing up to work in his S&M gimp suit will switch to a more work appropriate polo shirt. Thanks for ruining it for everyone Jerry... you jackass.
No the guy in the gimp suit works in hr its the uniform
"sportsWARE"? (Score:3)
I care about the quality of your hardware and software, not about what your engineers are wearing. Or, for the "anonymous reader" and the understandably anonymous Dice editors, "waring".
Fixed. (Score:3)
For those of you following along at home, they've corrected "sportsware" to "sportswear" in the summary. I guess someone does read the snarky comments.
HP died when Agilent was spun off (Score:5, Insightful)
.
The divisions that were left behind when Agilent was spun off were Just Another Company, with nothing special to speak of.
Re:HP died when Agilent was spun off (Score:4, Informative)
And Agilent has since split into two with Life Sciences taking the name, and the test and measurement relic being named Keysight (sounds like a rental company...).
Bill and Dave would be ashamed of where their creation has gone.
Basically, a way to get people to leave (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, a way to get people to leave, without going through the trouble of laying them off or providing severance. The often overlooked part of this is of course that good people leave first, and mouth breathers and managers of all sorts hang on for dear life since they are unemployable elsewhere.
Is it a change or a return to form? (Score:2)
The company may have been founded in a garage, but it didn't stay there. What was HP like when it got out of garage? Did HP really have a reputation for people dressing like slobs? I'd suspect that people generally dressed ok and didn't need to be told how to dress for work.
Sound pretty stupid (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Sound pretty stupid (Score:4, Interesting)
We once had a plant manager who enforced a strict professional attire for all. He got everyone in the company to wear shirt and tie even when they had to wear safety overalls over the top.
That all changed one day when he was visiting the workshop and got his tie stuck on a piece of rotating equipment (drill press as the story went). After nearly losing his head in the literal sense the dress code was relaxed leaving everyone scratching their heads wondering why a chemical plant with no customer facing positions had a dress code to begin with.
Let me see if I have the meeting right (Score:4, Funny)
Picture this at a management meeting:
"Our stock is at an all-time low, profits are down, moral is gone, all our good engineers have left. What are we gonna do?"
"I know! We'll ban casual dress, that'll solve the issues."
(Boss) "That's brilliant! Raises for everyone!"
__
Something like that perhaps? H and P must be spinning in their graves...
Re:Let me see if I have the meeting right (Score:5, Insightful)
It's something I never really understood. And it seems to be something that is actually pretty much an US thing. I don't see the same clinging to dress codes over here in Europe.
How the heck can it be important how someone dresses who is in no contact with customers? I can see the necessity of "professional" dressing when one has to do with customers. That's a given. You need to follow the rites of the human tribe. Dressing up in a similar way as the one you get into contact with makes him identify you as "one of his kind" and causes him to like you. He looks like me, so he's one of my tribe. That's deep in our ancestor's brain. That's why three piece suits are pretty much a necessity in management meetings because managers look at you and identify you as one of them if you're in the same three piece junk.
It's also, btw, the reason why techs don't like managers and why any tech dressing up as a manager immediately loses support with his peers. He's no longer "one of us". He's "one of them" now.
And no, I don't digress, actually, that's exactly the problem these things create. Because "business dress code" identifies a tech as "not one of us anymore". We not only don't want to wear that junk, we also don't like people wearing it. If anything, it alienates people.
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That's why calling someone a 'suit' is not a complement.
How shit like this starts (Score:5, Insightful)
I would wager that what happened was some executive who thinks he or she is too high and mighty to do something like... notify anybody AT ALL that they're bringing important people through... decided to talk up how professional and awesome their employees are and then bring them through, only to catch the overweight bearded guy wearing sandals in the middle of eating a messy burger. Of course the problem is that the guy was wearing sandals!
I've witnessed this multiple times. One executive told me about how he never knows in advance when investors are coming through. I asked if they just walk up and down our street and randomly poke their head into our place. The answer to that question was a suggestion that I should update my resume.
Their lawns must look fantastic (Score:3)
With fertilizer like that, I'm sure their lawns are looking great in spite of the drought. On a scale of 1 to 10 on the shittitude meter, that's probably like a 12 or 13.
Skirts are okay. (Score:2)
I'd probably wear a nice, not short skirt because that would be against the rules, but a nice mid length skirt.
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Very comfy in summer. I wear them pretty much all the time in hot weather.
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I'd probably wear a nice, not short skirt because that would be against the rules, but a nice mid length skirt.
Do you want kilts? Because that's how we get kilts.
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Meh (Score:5, Informative)
First off the article linked was poorly written. It is only their professional services arm that has these new restrictions. R&D does not. Secondly who cares? I prefer business casual over some of the other forms of outfits that you can wear. Yes I can wear sneakers (trainers) and they might be very comfortable, but I buy an $80 pair of shoes, wear them every day, and they last 5 years. That is not all that expensive. Khaki's are lighter than Denim Jeans .. so I prefer them. Hey, less ball sweat. $40 a pair (you need five). I have light button down shirts that I wear over my under shirt and have never had a problem of being hot, or feeling constrained. Again, spend $40 on each shirt and you will only have to replace them if you get fat (or skinny) or after like 5 years. So lets see. $500 for 5 years worth of NICE clothes you can wear anywhere (church, wedding, christmas dinner, etc.) and you are more comfortable than when you wear jeans and a polo.
Of course this is all subjective. My current job allows people to wear jeans instead of Khaki's. I told my boss that I will never wear jeans, but if he lets me wear shorts that will be a different story. I would prefer to wear shorts and a t-shirt, but it is work. Seriously. If you are customer facing, it is not hard to look nice and professional. If you are a back room guy - Who cares.
Re:Meh (Score:4, Interesting)
I started buying 5.11 tactical pants [511tactical.com] made out of lightweight, stretchy nylon with a Teflon finish. They look like business casual pants but move like pajamas, and anything you spill on them rolls or wipes off. I don't think I've worn any other kinds of pants to work since I bought my first pair.
Clever move by management (Score:3)
Wow, that dress thing is still an issue in the US? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, technically we do have a dress code. You are required to wear pants. Or skirts if you prefer. And it is mandatory to wear it in such a way that it covers your genitals and buttocks. You are encouraged to wear something covering your torso. It would be nice if this had at least something that could resemble sleeves, however short they may be. And shoes would be encouraged but more out of comfort than necessity.
It is a bit more strict if you're in direct contact with the customer, granted. And no, we're not some hip little start up. We're a medium sized bank with a few centuries of tradition behind it and a rather conservative customer stock. But we're IT security. We don't get into contact with the customer. Why the fuck should we give a shit how someone dresses as long as it's clean and doesn't show me some part of his/her anatomy that should better stay concealed?
Image over substance (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, this fourth "wonder of the world" CEO needs to disassociate the name "HP" and "Hewlett-Packard" from the company. It's an insult to its founders.
R&D is typically closed doors to the public and should be for I.P. purposes.
If all the remains of HP has to tout in their R&D lab is how the engineers dress, that means there isn't much of substance to demonstrate the "wow effect" to outsiders. That says a lot about HP.
HP has undergone 16 years of cost cutting (and counting) and their product quality shows the effects of that short term goal (so managers can get their bonuses).
I will not buy another HP product. Frankly, their quality has become abysmal.
Corporate Dress Code (Score:3)
If you like dress codes, you'll love Booz, Allen, Hamilton. Freshly pressed suits, at all times. If you're lucky, you might be allowed to take your jacket off after hours.
http://www.indeed.com/forum/cm... [indeed.com]
Re: Silly but (Score:2, Insightful)
I've yet to see a dress code policy that had any real impact on performance. Better to let people be comfortable than to push fashion on them.
Finding science on the matter is a crap shoot. There's support for both business casual and casual.
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Dress codes make a slight amount of sense when the company has a requirement that many employees must wear uniforms. It's not fair to say, "you people who stand in front of customers all day must wear a blue shirt, green tie, and khaki pants" but then say, "you people are in the main office, so you're exempt from dressing like a dork." Some of the line workers resent it. Management can then decide if they want to settle the matter by subjecting everyone to a dress code.
Of course HP doesn't require line work
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At least partially silly but I do understand some of the banned items like baseball caps (or any other head wear like hoodies) as they are totally impolite to be worn indoors.
POV, even in US.
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At least partially silly but I do understand some of the banned items like baseball caps (or any other head wear like hoodies) as they are totally impolite to be worn indoors.
You obviously are prejudiced against middle-aged guys with hair plugs. Don't be intolerant! Remember, "Plugs are People Too".
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What I miss is a ban on dark glasses while speaking with someone.
I will use my clear glasses, as soon as you turn down the light (how you are going to do that if we are outside, I do not care). However, if it is too bright for me, I will use my dark glasses rather than have a headache (which can then only be cured by drinking ibuprofen and sitting in a really dark room for half an hour).
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At least partially silly but I do understand some of the banned items like baseball caps (or any other head wear like hoodies) as they are totally impolite to be worn indoors.
I often do a lot of CAD work, usually a bunch of squiggly crap on a black background. Overhead fluorescent lights in my field of view really bug me when I am in in the midst of that type of work. I often wear a baseball cap to block the light that is right above the corner of my cube. I also often come in on weekends where I can turn off the overhead lights in my area and also have very few distractions when I really need to be immersed.
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Wearing a headpiece indoors is excusable only if your head looks really bad - from injury or disease.
Slippery slope here. What about yarmulkes? What about Sikhs wearing turbans? What about women wearing hijab, niqab,or burkas?
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You've never seen shirts with buttons? You need to get out more.
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Do you only wear tshirts? Sounds like you are the redneck then. They'd wear normal shirts, you know like polo shirts and button down shirts. If an outfit is so casual you wouldn't wear it to a bar, why should you wear it to work? Even going to a dive bar, I wear pants not shorts, and a button down not a tshirt. Something like a plaid button down is very casual yet appropriate.
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Thin hair and light skin. My head burns easily and I just wear mine out of habit a lot so that I am rarely without it. I often take it off indoors, but I always show up to work with one, and have an additional sun hat for when I go outside at lunch for a walk. Hats are useful as more than a fashion statement.
Hipsters wearing knit winter hats in the middle of the blazing summer are just dumb however.
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Indeed, the people who work in R&D should be forced to wear the white lab coat, i.e. "R&D Casual".
WTF is "business casual" anyway? A business suit with a funny tie?
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WTF is "business casual" anyway?
Collared shirt. Long pants that are not jeans or cargo. Shoes that are not sandals or athletic (running, tennis, hiking, etc.) shoes. Socks.
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I think it is the case HP R&D was running a bit too informal. As in they were not doing any real good Research and Development, and were mostly slaking off.
I mean what do you think that is new and exciting from HP now? Printers Color and Black and White? While they are still the leader in printers they are mostly the same thing that has been around for decades. I can still find some Laserjet 4 kicking around and printing the same quality as the newest ones, they are just a little slower to do it. Desk
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"Beating will continue until morale improves."
Re:So why? (Score:5, Interesting)
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sexy cow [chinalert.com]... moo... ^_^!
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Re:shorts (Score:5, Interesting)
as long as shorts are banned
At my company, we require shorts and tank tops during the summer months. If you violate the dress code by wearing long pants or sleeves, then you are not allowed to complain about the AC temperature setting. It is currently set to 78F (26C).
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You don't have to tell us, we can smell your company through our displays.
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Would it help if we shaved, and do you only hate male knees? What about unshaven female calves?
While we're at it can we enforce a strict BMI rule at the work place? I've never seen a fat person I prefer not to see.
Oh also brunets; Everyone should be blonde and blue eyed.
Re:shorts (Score:5, Interesting)
This makes me laugh.
Years ago, I worked for a company in Mesa, Arizona. It's damned hot in that area, especially in the summer.
When the company tackled the thorny issue of dress codes, they wanted a unisex dress code--no double standards. The dress code ended up being, "You must be covered from shoulders to a little above the knee in clothing of good repair." Open toed shoes were okay, but no flip-flops.
That was it. No ripped jeans. No tube tops or spaghetti straps.
That said, there were some people who could just not handle hairy men's legs and, I'm told, argued vehemently against men wearing shorts. The head of HR basically said that whatever standards are there for women should also be there for men. If you want to wear skirts, you need to let men show their legs, too.
There were two other interesting things they did. One, they hung a sign in the lobby that said "This company supports a casual dress code." So you wouldn't wonder why people were wandering around in shorts. The other rule was that there were times--maybe once or twice a year--when it might be necessary to, shall we say, "dress to impress." When this happened, you would be notified by your manager--and it was up to your manager to do this and verify that you got the message--more than 24 hours before this would happen. If you were not notified and showed up dressed unimpressively, your manager was the one who caught the heat.
Re:shorts (Score:4, Funny)
While sweltering at an outdoor summer wedding wearing a jacket, pants and socks (!) I ended up in a conversation with a woman wearing some kind of sheer silk dress and sandals about how men don't understand the social pressure on women to appear a certain way. I told her I would love to wear what she was. She gave me this strange look and excused herself.
Re:My experience dressing down at a business meeti (Score:5, Insightful)
I learned two important lessons from one of my former bosses concerning dressing:
First: If you meet with a group of people, the least well dressed person is the one you're looking out for. It's either the tech or the decision maker. And both of them are important to you. The decision maker for obvious reasons, and the tech because he'll be the one asking the important questions and his reaction to your answers is also the important one, because he will later translate your answer to the managers. They can nod, ahh and ohh all they want to your answer, they don't understand it. It's the tech that will understand it and what he later conveys to his managers is what makes or breaks your contract. So that is the one person you need to convince.
And second, never trust a tech in a suit. Never. If you're in a customer meeting with someone who is allegedly a tech and he comes in dressed up like a manager, there's two possible reasons: First, he's not a tech but a sales goon who has been briefed by their tech, and he has been sent 'cause they fear their tech would tell us more truth about the product than they want him to. Or he is a tech and was forced to dress up to distract from the product being not able to stand on its own. If something needs a dolled up clown to sell it, it's not worth buying it.
Re: (Score:3)
There is a difference, and I do sincerely hope you know it, between dirty, stained rags and informal attire. Believe it or not, it's possible to wash jeans and t-shirts so they not only look but also smell nice.
As for your picture, you might notice that this is from a very different time. That's like complaining about the fashion of the 70s and questioning the sexual preference of the guys.
I have to agree.
One of the "You Have Arrived" indicators for success for a technical person in Silicon Valley is not having to wash your T-Shirts unless you want to keep them, because you are getting, on average, a new T-Shirt every day or so. It's a lot less that way these days, but you could, if you are sought after technically, go an entire month without doing laundry, and wear one to two T-shirts a day, with little effort to solicit shirts.
I had an intern in a button-down collar, at Google, engage me i