Tor Developer Jacob Appelbaum Allegedly Intimidated Victims Into Silence and Anonymity (dailydot.com) 337
blottsie quotes a report from The Daily Dot: In the wake of programmer Jacob Appelbaum's abrupt departure from the Tor Project, rumors and accusations about both sexual misconduct and bullying have surfaced that extend back years. Now, four witnesses -- including a current senior Tor employee -- are stepping forward into the public eye, adding valuable insight into how Appelbaum allegedly intimidated those around him to keep accusations of sexual misconduct secret and pressure those who are speaking out to remain anonymous. [Late last week, a website was launched in which alleged victims of Appelbaum's sexual misconduct joined together to post their stories in an effort to publicize them without a much-feared wave of personalized and professional backlash. The stories are graphic and describe the ways Appelbaum allegedly assaulted people in public and in private. Three current Tor employees -- two of which agreed to be named on the record -- have confirmed that they personally know the authors of the alleged victim statements on the site, JacobAppelbaum.net. Although they continue to maintain anonymity for the authors of the stories, these Tor employees are now publicly vouching for the site's authenticity, which Appelbaum has called into question. Appelbaum broke his silence on Monday, deriding the accounts of his former colleagues as "vague rumors." It was an "attack," he said, on his reputation, led by character-assassins spreading "vicious and spurious" allegations against him.] In May, one of Tor's core software developers dodged the FBI and left the U.S. for Germany to avoid testifying in a criminal hacking investigation.
I'm sure this will be just great. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are we posting nasty things like this with no effort to investigate their veracity? I'm sure we'll all just bandwagon onto whoever we believe is more credible, evidence be damned, whoever I identify with or whatever story I hear first is clearly right. I'm sure this will end up just as reasonably argued (with no evidence or investigation) as the case against Assange. Half the people will think he was set up by the NSA and the commies and the other half will say that he's some kind of pedoraper mysogynist.
Wake me when there's a court judgement and actual investigation has been done, not someone badmouthing people online and calling attention to rumors like some trashy tabloid.
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Why are we posting nasty things like this with no effort to investigate their veracity?
Posting it because it's news. There are a bunch of creeps in the software business; this is not really out of line with what's reported elsewhere. With multiple people now coming up and vouching for the veracity of the complaints, this is beginning to sound pretty plausible.
Re:I'm sure this will be just great. (Score:4, Informative)
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Or, perhaps it means the perpetrator developed a well-refined method of getting dirt on victims, perpetrating the assault, then blackmailing them into silence.
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The whole idea that tech people have some sort special knowledge of the law is utterly fallacious, a sort of appeal to authority where the poster tries to assert they are an authority in a field quite distinct from software development.
There really are some people posting here who suffer delusions of grandeur.
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I suppose the idea that someone in IT somehow is graced with command of subjects as varied as the law or climatology must certainly be at least a corollary to the Salem Hypothesis, or perhaps it's a sign that the Salem Hypothesis is merely itself part of a larger principle where technicians of all sorts believe themselves so intelligent that foreign fields of expertise just by the nature of their genius are assimilated.
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Did you have anything particularly useful to add, AC, or do you make it a habit to just babble when your arguments unravel?
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You can start lecturing other people about how it's "report your sexual abuse to the police immediately or it didn't happen" when you've actually gone through sexual abuse yourself.
News flash: most people never report even outright rape, let alone lesser predatory behavior. Because, first off, nobody sets out for the evening with "get raped" on their TODO list. Coming to acceptance with what happened takes time. I've known people who outright started *dating* their rapist afterward, just so that they cou
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..and have your name dragged through the mud by everyone who likes the guy as a liar and a slut? Times a thousand if the guy is well known and popular.
Ah, but it's OK for them to drag his name through the mud in an attempt to sidestep|subvert any legal due process?
here's a hint, it's not..
I'll not deny the legal system is broken with regards to rape, and I say that as someone whose sister was raped and the bastard responsible got away with thanks to police and prosecutor indifference.
This sort of crap (websites full of allegations and innuendo, etc) doesn't help either, there's a point at which people will start thinking 'the lady doth protest too much..
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And that may well happen; we'll have to wait and see.
Re:I'm sure this will be just great. (Score:4)
Good lord, this is probably the most unjustified "Troll" rating of the day.
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News - what's happening.
Allegation - something that's happening.
The Daily Dot made it clear that this was not empirical proof but heresay supported by people close to the issue.
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I'm sure the National Enquirer is just trying to inform us of the evidence for Bat Boy in a neutral way, too.
That wasn't the Enquirer, that was World Weekly News, and it was the finest news source for those of us who wanted to keep tabs on how Bat Boy's astronaut training was going.
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We're allowed to have an opinion on the matter. Based on available information, I think these accusations have merit.
Re:I'm sure this will be just great. (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is some evidence: Four witnesses. Not anonymous sources, but actual witnesses with names who have stepped forward
Jacob Applebaum is not Tor. His departure will not sink Tor. Tor will continue on without this douche. The NSA isn't taking down Tor by having one programmer resign in shame.
In the wake of what happened to an actual convicted rapist Brock Turner, it's no wonder that victims are afraid to step forward. Depending on the color and social level of the perpetrator, there's almost no chance of justice and a very large chance that the victim's life will be further destroyed.
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Here is some evidence: Four witnesses. Not anonymous sources, but actual witnesses with names who have stepped forward
And how many witnesses did they have at salem again?
Four people and a very professional yet totally anonymous set of smears. They've got this many people and witnesses and yet no one is pressing charges? They waited for the professional media rollout instead of, yknow, actually doing something? Sounds like they learned from Rolling Stone.
it's no wonder that victims are afraid to step forward
Oh please, it's so much the opposite that people step forward even when no rape ever even happened in the first place. Remember UVA? Mattress Girl? Duke Lacross? It seems l
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The witnesses are credible. They give specific, verifiable details that others have confirmed. Times, places, behaviour that other people observed. What is really damning is that Appelbaum could provide some counter evidence of his own, explain why he kissed someone on the mouth unexpectedly in public or suggested a 3-way with their partner within earshot of others, but he hasn't.
As for pressing charges, it's not nearly as easy as you think. Many Tor developers don't trust law enforcement and some have even
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The witnesses are credible. They give specific, verifiable details that others have confirmed.
If these stories were true, these same specific, verifiable details would also allow Appelbaum to find out which of his witnesses were singing. Completely defeating the goal of anonymity and professional backlash from the hands of Appelbaum.
So, that makes me think that their stated reason for wanting to stay anonymous is bullshit. And that maybe other "details" are bullshit too.
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I'm sure Appelbaum knows who these people are, but doesn't call them out because it would just make things worse for him. At the moment there is some doubt and he just has to keep quiet to avoid clearing it up by confirming any specific details.
Of course he might be innocent, in which case he could question the specifics or state that he doesn't recognise those situations. Staying quiet, after being so outspoken against other conspiracies, doesn't really lend any credibility to him. He might just be handlin
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The nature of bringing allegations to light requires divulging their nature.
Note that many of the alleged victims don't live in Germany, many are in the US. Appelbaum went to Germany specifically to avoid US authorities, which he claims are investigating him over the Snowden leaks and TOR. It's likely that many have no realistic prospect of seeing him charged if they do report it.
I really hope someone in Germany does make a police report though, now that others have come forward to corroborate their story.
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In the wake of what happened to an actual convicted rapist Brock Turner, it's no wonder that victims are afraid to step forward. Depending on the color and social level of the perpetrator, there's almost no chance of justice and a very large chance that the victim's life will be further destroyed.
Ronin Farrow wrote a superb piece [hollywoodreporter.com] recently based on his sister's own experience of a molestation suit that gives a lot of explanation as to why victims don't always want to come forward or continue to pursue the matter.
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I know right, how did people who worked on Tor manage to put together something as complicated as a website?
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Trump 2016
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"Hearsay" has a very specific definition. An eye-witness account is the opposite of hearsay.
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I wish I had mod points.
I hate it when people dismiss something as "hearsay" just because it disagrees with their conclusions.
Especially when the statement is actually an allegation, an eyewitness account, or a forensic report. Or when they are perfectly willing to accept hearsay in favor of their conclusions.
Actually, virtually every time I see "hearsay" mentioned it is an attempt to dismiss something that is not actually hearsay. Maybe I just hate a lot of people.
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Normally victims go to the police rather than making websites, it
Of sexual assault? No, normally victims don't report them at all. They tend to get blamed for their own victimization more than helped, and really who wants to go through that? Their odds of getting actual justice are much smaller than their odds of getting further abused.
Which is why there's a nasty little subculture of guys running around who have figured out how to do this to women with impunity. Then the majority of us who would never even think of behaving that way get stuck with trying to have real r
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In the modern world eye witnesses mean absolutely nothing.
That is a decision for the jury to make. I seriously doubt that every witness in the world has been tampered with, so it becomes a question of honesty and reliability.
People can be convinced of anything, including memory of experiences they never had.
That is difficult to pull off and requires a concerted effort. Even the experts cannot induce memories very well. Is there any evidence of such an effort in this case?
This is a consequence of abstracting so many aspects of the world behind multiple layers of virtual interfaces.
Meaningless psycho-babble. Mentally sound adults have very little trouble distinguishing between imaginary, physical, hypothetical, and virtual entities.
We consider people who ha
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Wake me when there's a court judgement and actual investigation has been done, not someone badmouthing people online and calling attention to rumors like some trashy tabloid.
You mean a court judgement like owing $30,000 to someone over a $75 printer dispute? Or the OJ Simpson one? Or Casey Anthony?
Get real.
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Why are we posting nasty things like this with no effort to investigate their veracity?
Because bloggers are not often real journalists, and it is so much easier - and less risky - to sit in a dark corner and pontificate. And of course, social media are even less about journalism and more about idle gossip and rumour mongering. Even Fox News do a better job of investigating their stories, and believe you me, I am no fan of Murdoch's Sewage Pumps.
Is he being Assanged or what? (Score:4, Insightful)
There have been a number of serious issues with the Tor network recently. We've seen official government efforts to neutralize the network, then we've seen a number of exploits that has allowed government agencies like the FBI and NSA to spy on Tor networks. Then we see them going after Tor developers and finally we're supposed to believe that the lead Tor developer is 'dirty'?
Tor is dead, it's still too centralized to be sufficiently safe. We need alternatives.
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From here on it is propaganda all the way (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not able to find any account of what has happened that does not come with a strong political agenda attached. That is the core problem with public accusations as opposed to filing a complaint: It immediately muddies the waters as people on both sides jump on the issue and try to exploit it for their own agendas. I honestly have no idea of what to think of this because all possibilities from him having done exactly what is claimed to this being an orchestrated smear-campaign seem now equally probable. I even consider it possible that he was a mole and what happens now is the desired outcome. Not good at all.
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So you are claiming the victim's statements on the linked website are all full of political agenda? You didn't even read them did you? No you didn't.
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The vagueness in the accusations of "sexual misconduct" and intimidation is awful. I had to read the stories to figure out what the accusations are.
http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net] is very weird.
The site is difficult to navigate and difficult to extract the meat of the accusations.
There are 8 stories (+2 empty ones). 1 first person rape account, 1 second person rape account and professional bullying and harassment. 1 first person sexual molestation. The rest are harassment, bullying, intimidation and
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Anonymous statements have zero credibility. I do not read them. Anybody can claim anything anonymously and it is pretty easy to make statements that sound credible, but are a complete fabrication.
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Not credible, but obviously something you really believe. Fail on both count.
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In other words, they claim to be doing vigilantism. This is never good, even if it hits somebody deserving. It is an illegal act for good reasons as the mechanisms are far too easy to abuse and it is extremely hard to defend against that.
In this case, it is also an appeal to emotion, which makes abusing it even easier. The only thing they will achieve this way is a split in the community. That of course raises the question if that was the aim all along.
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I am not able to find any account of what has happened that does not come with a strong political agenda attached. That is the core problem with public accusations as opposed to filing a complaint: It immediately muddies the waters as people on both sides jump on the issue and try to exploit it for their own agendas. I honestly have no idea of what to think of this because all possibilities from him having done exactly what is claimed to this being an orchestrated smear-campaign seem now equally probable. I even consider it possible that he was a mole and what happens now is the desired outcome. Not good at all.
(emphasis added)
Is he possibly innocent and this could just be a smear campaign? Sure.
But the odds are nowhere near equal.
There are multiple victims who have put their names and faces to specific accusations, they might be fake (it happens), but the odds are overwhelmingly in favour of them being mostly legit.
I don't know if they're also pursuing criminal charges or not, if they aren't it doesn't mean they're lying. Not everyone who wants to get their story out necessarily wants to go through legal proceedi
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There are multiple victims who have put their names and faces to specific accusations, they might be fake (it happens), but the odds are overwhelmingly in favour of them being mostly legit.
Remember Rolling Stone? Tim Hunt? Emma Sulkowicz (mattress girl)? Duke Lacrosse?
There are a packet of anonymous smears and four other people insisting "oh yeah that's totes legit". The odds of this being nothing more than a manipulative attempt to use the current public tendency towards blind support and witch hunts far outweighs anything else. Everything done here is designed to minimize accountability and maximize sensationalism and public outrage.
I don't know if they're also pursuing criminal charges or not, if they aren't it doesn't mean they're lying. Not everyone who wants to get their story out necessarily wants to go through legal proceedings or have the perpetrator put in prison.
We have a word for this. It's called Libel. We also have a
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Indeed. Which adds an extra layer of complexity to this: The people doing this must know that in the past similar campaigns have been based on direct lies.
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There is a good reason hearsay is not admitted as evidence in any functioning legal system. It is just far too often wrong.
Oh, good, a Slashdot thread on sexual harassment. (Score:4, Funny)
I'm sure this will be full of well-reasoned, cogent discussion. Just give me a moment to polish my monocle...
Behold the real reason for "sexual harassment" law (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not so much to protect women.
It's more to be able to start up witch trials against men who are doing something important.
This is actually the main reason for all law. Law does not exist to create justice in any logical sense. It exists solely as a device to turn the masses against anyone who challenges the status quo.
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Do you have any examples of this? Someone who clearly did not do any unwanted sexual touching, forced kissing etc. who was accused of sexual harassment because they challenged the status quo?
I can't think of any. Assange was accused of rape, not sexual harassment, and freely admits to actually having (consensual) sex with those women. Anyone else you would like to cite to support your claim?
Not suprised if it were true (Score:4, Informative)
My Jacob Story (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok, so here's my Jacob story. I'm going to post as AC despite having an account here with excellent karma. I stand by what I say but I don't wish to have any conversations with those who might want to know more, as will become obvious below. So mod it as you see fit.
Everything I'm telling you would have to already be known to the relevant authorities. (Which is the point.)
I liked Jacob Appelbaum, he had done some really good things. I admired him.
I had a conversation with Jacob a few years ago. This is a di
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Wow. It's a shame no one will ever see this.
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I've got an Appelbaum story too! I've met him a couple of times at gallery after parties and conferences in Berlin, had a bit of a chat about internet security issues, he told me I should go to the TOR developer conference, err, that's about it.
Discrediting: the American way (Score:2)
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There's certainly reason to give your idea serious consideration, but based on what's emerging, it looks like this guy might really be a huge a-hole. Right from the get-go, there was a lot of information available about how questionable the efforts were to get Assange back to Sweden. I have little doubt he'd have been on a private jet to some US gulag before he got within shouting distance of a Swedish courtroom. And it's astonishing how fast the stories about Snowden's girlfriend moved to the back burne
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Even if these allegations are politically motivated, it doesn't mean that they are false. There is an embarrassingly large amount of sexual assault, rape, and sexism in the world, and especially in the IT industry. There is a ready-made avenue to prosecute men in the tech sector because a whole lot of them engage in criminal sexual behavior. If we could stop the culture of sexism, the ready-made discrediting and prosecution would disappear. All men can help out simply by not behaving like creepy assholes, a
Sounds just like Jackie (Score:2)
And probably turns out the same way.
The bigger issue (Score:2)
I read some of the accounts and feel that there is a different issue that is not being discussed: The community that allowed this all to happen right in front of their own eyes.
Just now they disavow the abuser and tell the victims to go to the police. But the justice system is not really any help in most abuse cases. First of all nothing criminal happened in many of the stories. Yet the actions taken by Mr. Applebaum, while not criminal, where despicable none the less. And he did so in front of numerous wit
Re: A disturbing setback (Score:2, Interesting)
Whatever, somehow every software nerd to rock the security boat is secretly a rapist? Is that really the most likely explanation for this? Coincidentally one of the most impossible crimes to convict... and totally impossible to exonerate in the public eye.
Sure is a coincidence!
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I'm sorry, but do you live in a world where whenever any high profile geek gets accused of rape, his legions of fans line up to condemn him? Because in the world I've been living in, they line up to accuse it of being a giant conspiracy and his accusers of being lying sluts paid by the NSA.
I know there are some truths we don't want to acknowledge, but the reality is that polls of women show that about 1 in 6 report having been sexually assaulted during their lives, and there's an expected lifetime incidenc
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I find it interesting that many of the posts here that try to defend Appelbaum and point out that the accusations come from anonymous sources were written by Anonymous Cowards...
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This.
In many cases, intelligence agencies recruit moles based on having some embarrassing information. It doesn't have to be prosecutable. Just something the subject doesn't want revealed. But now that allegations have been made public, the leverage value of the information has been diminished to the likes of the CIA/NSA. So this stuff should never be swept under the rug. Bring out the evidence and judge Applbaum either guilty or innocent publicly.
Undoubtedly, some women will be hesitant to pursue charges
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Was he not married? I don't understand what the story is saying.
The link to the allegations is in the summery, but if you don't want to scroll up, here: jacobappelbaum.net [jacobappelbaum.net]
He was sexually harassing men? women? or both?
That's not clear to me, since the names and photo-icons on the site are pseudonyms. Three of them who imply their sex in the narratives are female (despite male-appearing photo-icons)
Misleading photos [Re: I don't believe the story] (Score:3)
He was sexually harassing men? women? or both?
That's not clear to me, since the names and photo-icons on the site are pseudonyms. Three of them who imply their sex in the narratives are female (despite male-appearing photo-icons)
All of the photo-icons on the site are of Appelbaum.
!!!
The site would be much clearer if they actually mentioned that minor fact.
The way the site is arranged makes it appear that each photo is a picture of the person whose narrative is linked. I can only assume that they believe that everybody in the world knows what Appelbaum looks like, and so they don't need to bother making it clear who these are pictures of.
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" I don't understand what the story is saying. He was sexually harassing men? women? or both? "
You need to understand the Sexual Allegation Rules. Allegations of sexual misconduct by anonymous victims are automatically true and your life is ruined. The victims can stay anonymous, because Tor.
Re: I don't believe the story (Score:2)
In what way are men immune to sexual harassment?
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Was he not married?
How is this relevant?
He was sexually harassing men? women? or both?
Does it matter?
Men can simply say fuck off how can you sexually harass a man?
You have no idea how sexual harassment works. Particularly in a workplace/professional setting.
So I assume they are saying he was sexually harassing women?
Based on your reasoning, your assumption is unsafe.
And I think he is not an unpleasant looking fella and I would love to be sexually harassed by him.
All becomes clear. You're not just wrong, you are also an idiot.
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Who needs the FBI/NSA to conduct a smear operation when you've got smear merchants in residence?
How leading Tor developers and advocates tried to smear me after I reported their US Government ties [pando.com]
Take Tor developer Andrea Shepard. As soon as my story went live, Shepard responded with a torrent of childish insults, calling me “Pandofilth” and “Yasha the Foul,” a “statist propagandist," a "fucktard's fucktard." Shepard accused me of being funded by spooks, and ranted on and on about the various ways in which she said I had performed sexual favors for a male colleague. She hurled similar childish abuse at anyone she caught commenting positively about my article. When readers suggested to Shepard that she should instead offer a point-by-point rebuttal of my article, rather that swearing and insulting at anyone who mentioned it, she responded that my article wasn't worth the effort of rebutting (only insulting), and that I don't deserve to live:
— Andre (@puellavulnerata) July 18, 2014
Andrea seems easily able to launch into baseless smears against people who've gone up against her.
Re:So many creeps in the world (Score:4, Insightful)
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That's how sociopaths like Appelbaum or Assange can get away with stuff that would make a rockstar lose his hardcore fanbase. Anyone who complains about those guys is crucified by legions of idiots. This is the same kind of uncompromising, full-on hate behavior of the Westboro baptist church or the abortion clinic bombers. Different dogma and cult leaders, same mindless worshipping and mob mentality.
Nobody accused Snowden of being a rapist or an overall asshole. You know why? Because he didn't harass, bully
Re:So many creeps in the world (Score:4, Insightful)
Snowden's already been labelled a traitor and everything else under the sun. Assange had to be discredited because he's more dangerous, he runs the actual organization people like snowden go to.
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Snowden is by definition a traitor. Deal with it. Doesn't mean that he was wrong for what he did, but thats separate.
Assange on the other hand is just a power hungry douche who manipulates the truth to further his own personal political agenda.
He's like the CIA, but REALLY FUCKING SHITTY at it, because most of us with more than 3 brain cells realizes that he's nothing more than a manipulative asshole rapist. And yes, he's a fucking rapist because he's hiding from fucking Sweden who would be one of the la
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And yes, he's a fucking rapist because he's hiding from fucking Sweden who would be one of the last fucking countries on the planet to give him to the US for some reason.
Since Sweden has an extradition treaty with the US, that statement is, by definition, false.
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The US has shown no interest in charging Assange with anything, or trying to get its hands on them. There were a few politicians yelling for his head, but that's just to be expected. The US has convicted the person responsible for the leak, and if Manning acted of his/her independent will, Assange did not break US law.
Assange apparently moved to Sweden with the intention of staying there. That's an odd thing to do if he thinks Sweden would hand him over to the CIA. He then went to the UK, which has a
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Besides which, sexual assault isn't the only thing they use to discredit or attack people. With Chelsea Manning it was her being transgender, particularly that one unflattering photo they published.
I think the big difference with Snowden is that his leaks created such a shitstorm, far greater than anything Manning or Assange did, that they were somewhat distracted with damage control and being investigated themselves that screams of traitor were the best they could come up with. They were also spread a bit
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CO2 absorbs UV from solar radiation, and re-emits it as IR. This causes a net increase in temperature in the lower atmosphere. This is a simple physical fact. The more CO2 in the atmosphere, the more energy in the lower atmosphere. Unless you have some magic heat sink which dumps the additional back into space, AGW is inevitable where CO2 levels are increases. This is basic thermodynamics, and the properties of CO2 have been known for over a century.
I'm sorry this makes you want to deny reality, but the Uni
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massive wealth redistribution scheme while the scientists and politicians get rich
Oh yeah, pure research, that's the road to riches for sure!!
Re:Does anyone here NOT beleive this is cointelpro (Score:5, Interesting)
I have no idea about the man's guilt or innocence, but it seems to me that if you want to make a guilty man look innocent, an obvious smear campaign like that website is one way to do it.
Re:Does anyone here NOT beleive this is cointelpro (Score:4, Insightful)
That is the hard thing. The allegations are not entirely unbelievable; yet.... its also not like infiltration and use of sexual allegations against people is unheard of. In fact, its pretty well acknowledged as a tried and true tactic of intelligence services around the world.
More to the point, why is this a publicity circus? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, apparently there are a solid number of people who are well aware of things this guy has been doing
that are supposedly solidly covered by normal criminal law, and they have known for some time, and yet
no charges have been pressed, no police have been involved, and no one has had a day in court?
Instead, we have people who can 'verify Anonymous victims' (no, really) and that makes a public and well
organised smeer campaign the correct path forward? With media release level publicity and professional
websites publicly collecting more anonymous accounts against this guy?
My god he really must have pissed in someones beer..
For all I know he is guilty as sin, however vigilante justice is now the socially accepted way of dealing with
what should be reasonably simple criminal complaints? I am not sure that he is the worse offender in
this particular circle of wrongness.
Just as he may well be guilty, he also has the right to face his accusers (in a court of law), have a legal defense,
all those trappings of a just society that we all would demand, dont we? And when, as it seems people are quite
certain, he is found guilty, he will be suitably punished.
But instead we have this - congratulations accusers, you have lowered yourselves to the level you claim he works on.
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I think we have two solid options here:
1) The alleged victims step forward and handle this responsibly in the court of law. This way there's an objective evaluation of facts around this case.
2) Applebaum sues the maintainers of the website for libel. This way there's also an objective evaluation of facts around this case.
If neither of the above scenarios happen, this kind of vigilante justice will gain a semi-official status as a tool to solve similar issues (not good).
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I think you're confusing Vigilante Justice with Free Speech. Vigilante Justice involves breaking the law. If Appelbaum's accusers beat him senseless or killed him, or detained him, or key'd his car, or even _touched_ him they would be vigilantes.
Instead they shared their stories in a public forum.
That's Free Speech in a Free Society.
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You only get to share those kind of stories if they're true. Otherwise it's libel, which it is not protected free speech.
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Just as he may well be guilty, he also has the right to face his accusers (in a court of law), have a legal defense,
all those trappings of a just society that we all would demand
Of course, but you also can't force people to make police reports, or force the police to take them seriously, or force the prosecutor to take the case forward. In this situation, if he does want his day in court, he will have to sue his accusers. Some of them have come forward publicly, and the anonymous ones can be identified by a court if he can convince them that there is a case to be made.
You can't demand someone not say something because exercising their free speech creates a burden on you. Such an id
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You can't demand someone not say something because exercising their free speech creates a burden on you. Such an idea is incompatible with freedom of speech.
Um, that is kind of incompatible with libel and slander laws. It isn't free speech to tell a false story about someone else. Also, if the stories are true, but the tellers can't prove it, they can still be prosecuted for libel (in this case).
Notice I am not a lawyer, and neither are you, this is not legal advice.
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So, apparently there are a solid number of people who are well aware of things this guy has been doing that are supposedly solidly covered by normal criminal law, and they have known for some time, and yet no charges have been pressed, no police have been involved, and no one has had a day in court? Instead, we have people who can 'verify Anonymous victims' (no, really) and that makes a public and well organised smeer campaign the correct path forward?
Read what the prosecutor said about the case against Woody Allen on behalf of Dylan Farrow. [hollywoodreporter.com] Read the letter from Brock Turner's victim [buzzfeed.com] and learn about what she went through just to get the guy a six months' sentence. Read about Bill Cosby's victims. Find out why criminal complaints are not the path forward.
however vigilante justice is now the socially accepted way of dealing with what should be reasonably simple criminal complaints
This is not vigilante justice. It's just telling the truth publicly, and it encourages other victims to report these crimes sooner and more regularly.
he also has the right to face his accusers (in a court of law), have a legal defense, all those trappings of a just society that we all would demand, dont we?
No, that's only if they charge him in a court of l
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It's just telling the truth publicly, and it encourages other victims to report these crimes sooner and more regularly.
Correction, this is telling a possible truth, neither you nor I were there, so we cannot independently determine if these accounts are true. Until any of these cases (the slander case included) are prosecuted, there is no way for anyone to know if this is a case of slander, or a serial harasser. Just like Cosby in fact.
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They don't. You just have a confirmation bias.
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How slanderous of you!
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Seriously, there is no way that this is anything other than an orchestrated take down of the TOR project since they can't eliminate it technically nor in the courts.
And 'they' managed to get three people working on TOR, including a senior member of the team, to take TOR down!
Is your post a case of 'I just ignore the information that doesn't support my conspiracy theory', or do you really believe that everyone working at TOR except Appelbaum is working for the enemy?
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Of course.
"The people who write the software I like are SAINTS! There's no way this isn't some big conspiracy that everyone who actually knows him is taking part in!"
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And reiserfs proves it can work. My guess is that a few half-crazy types were planted in to rupture the porject from within
LOL. Fucking REISER is your example? You seriously couldn't do better than him?
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It's rather sad Reiser still has his defenders.
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It's quite obvious that the NSA, FBI, CIA, or one of their friends abroad are trying to publicly discredit this guy.
If that's what you think, you may want to reconsider everything else in your life that appears obvious to you.
Seriously the guy is such an asshole that some people in his own organization were wondering if he could have been a spy sent to sabotage the infosec community. Tinfoil hats all around.
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Unless those victims made verbal testimonies, slander is not even relevant. Don't use words you don't understand
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It's a clunky description but I can totally picture it. Create some kind of intimate, quiet ambiance like when you're the last two persons sitting next to a dying bonfire; let the other person feel like they're talking in confidence with a trusted friend; then the next day you repeat publicly everything the other person said.
But on the other hand whenever someone says something like "safe space" I just feel like fedexing them a bag of post-Taco Bell shit. So I'm conflicted on that one.
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