Node.js Forked Again Over Complaints of Unresponsive Leadership (thenewstack.io) 338
New submitter Kant shares a report: The codebase for popular Node.js JavaScript runtime has been forked again -- the second time in less than three years -- with a growing number of contributors charging that the Technical Steering Committee (TSC) leadership is ignoring repeated violations of the project's code of conduct. The new project, called Ayo will be managed under an open governance model. The complaints centered around ongoing behavior of NodeSource Director of Engineering, and Node.js TSC member Rod Vagg. The TSC received multiple complaints from Node.js members about a Tweet from Vagg promoting a Men's Rights Activist-slanted article, one that cast doubt on the validity of project Code-of-Conducts. In that Tweet, Vagg commented "If you've never considered the potential downsides of codes of conduct, here's a good place to start." [...] On August 21, The TSC voted on whether or not to remove Vagg from its ranks. Of the 10 TSC members who voted, 60 percent voted against removing Rod from the TSC and 60 percent voted against asking Rod to voluntarily resign. That the TSC voted to keep Vagg on the committee inflamed others in the project. One committee member, Myles Borins, resigned in protest. The decision to keep Vagg "undermines our Conduct Guidelines, drives away potential contributors, and in my opinion undermines the Committee's ability to govern," he wrote in a blog post. In a post further explaining the need for the forked Ayo project, developer Rudolf Olah explained that "Driving away contributors can be fatal in the open source world where most developers are essentially using their free time and volunteering to contribute. It is already difficult enough to attract contributors to smaller projects and larger projects, such as Node.js, need to be careful to make all contributors feel welcome."
Eating the world, right? (Score:5, Funny)
Enterprise-ready and eating the world. Got it.
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Actually, yes. When this type of thing happens with a traditional project the company either dies a slow death or you just make do with crap until someone comes along and reinvents the wheel.
With open source a project isn't truly dead until it's user-base no longer cares about it, regardless of leadership.
Granted, I'm not a zealot - I use a ton of closed source software too - but open source certainly does have it's benefits. I'd certainly rather be able to contact a vendor of some of the systems we use
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Actually, in this particular case, when something like this happens with a traditional project, the users are generally totally oblivious. This isn't lack of technical advancement or relevance, it's about 'code of conduct' sorts of things. Occasionally a company will spill out, but it's generally more about the company than products of the company.
Also the above wasn't a rip on open source, but an insinuation about NodeJS specifically, which at least some view as overhyped and will indulge in any excuse f
This is bizarre (Score:5, Interesting)
actually when allegations of harassment come up in a traditional project, that person is either fired or sent for some stupid HR training...
Except, as far as I can tell from the article, there weren't any "allegations of harassment": he didn't harass anybody. He tweeted a link to an article-- this article [quillette.com]. He did not harass anybody.
The article isn't even one about "Men's rights advocacy" ("MRA")-- what he tweeted was a link [quillette.com] to an article presenting the case that codes of conduct which suppress free speech discriminate against people with Asperger's syndrome, because these people have problems understanding what other people might thing would be offensive (the article was about "neurodiverse" people in general, but primarily focussed on Aspergers (which the article calls "Aspies").)
I somewhat wonder about the level of meta here. A person is accused of violating speech guidelines by tweeting a link to an article about speech guidelines?
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He scuffed the most holey of the sacred cows. He must be put to death now.
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..and the percentage of people who misuse the word 'asshole' to describe people they don't agree with is a much larger number.
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But people shouldn't self diagnose as autism spectrum when they are just antisocial jerks.
Well, usually there's a clinical reason when people are truly pathologically anti-social. I agree that self-diag is probably not a good idea, but, it seems less secure people would rather disbelieve just for the chance to label because their feelings are hurt, with said 'asshole' just hiding behind a diagnosis, real or not. Ironically, such people are also apt to label anything short of bubbly extravertedness as signs of a disorder. I think there's an overfocus on feelings and consensus these days, and one
Re:This is bizarre (Score:4, Funny)
It's called a joke, son. Damn, maybe they all really DO have Asperger's...
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Well they certainly do here at Slashdot, that's for sure.
Re:This is bizarre (Score:4, Insightful)
making them very likely to get STEM degrees, especially with computers where you don't need to deal with people as often. Mix in that tech culture loves a meritocracy
Where does this idea that you don't need to deal with people as often in STEM/computer jobs? That's crazy. It was true in the 80s, but these days with open-plan offices being the norm, it's not. And in the big tech companies like Facebook, the "office" is really just a big giant open room with open tables.
Tech work isn't for people who don't like to deal with people, it's for people-people now. You need to love being surrounded by your coworkers at all times, with no privacy at all, and constant chatter. Any time discussions about this come up online, you'll see two camps: old people (Gen-X or older) who hate the new workspaces, and young people who absolutely love them.
Re:This is bizarre (Score:4, Interesting)
And in the big tech companies like Facebook, the "office" is really just a big giant open room with open tables.
This explains much about the quality of code coming from that company.
Tech work isn't for people who don't like to deal with people, it's for people-people now. You need to love being surrounded by your coworkers at all times, with no privacy at all, and constant chatter. Any time discussions about this come up online, you'll see two camps: old people (Gen-X or older) who hate the new workspaces, and young people who absolutely love them.
While it is true this is being foisted on the workforce out of misguided ideology (and cost savings), it's still too early to see what the actual effects will be. Somehow, I doubt there's 'that' much of a difference in preferences. Reflective thought generally requires quiet time with some isolation. Give the open room to the sales team and give the office space to the people building the product.
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False dichotomy. There are plenty of competent, even brilliant people who are not assholes.
Re:This is bizarre (Score:5, Interesting)
The guy tweeted a link and made a mild supportive comment about the article. Even if it had been a link to the Necronomicon or the Satanic Bible, there's just no way anyone should get their panties in a bunch over this, even less fork a project.
What's really happening here is called a witch hunt, and the angry mob was looking for any reason to throw someone in the fire pit and put themselves in charge because the existing leadership was not joining their collective hysteria.
Fuck those people. This kind of hive mind of limpdickness and bendoverness is a slow collective suicide and anyone who has drank so much virtue signaling kool-aid that they can't see it deserve the nightmarish world they're progressively creating.
Re:Eating the world, right? (Score:4, Funny)
Node.js is EATING THE WORLD! With a FORK! Take that World!
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Virtual +1 funny to you, my good AC.
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I have "Karma-Bonus Modifier +1" (which is automatic) and no mod points. Nobody modded my comment +1 instead of modding the parent funny.
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JavaScript on the server. Asynchronous. Without threads. Got it.
*gulp*
Related question: will it be node.js, nodejs, nodejs.org, node.js.io, node.io, or what?
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They've forked to separate themselves from all the negativity, so I'd suggest yesde.js
Sheesh... (Score:3)
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I don't think this these are the tea-party members throwing tantrums:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_House_of_Representatives_sit-in
with a name like that (Score:5, Funny)
With a name like Rod Vagg he should just get into porn and be done with it.
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With a name like Rod Vagg he should just get into porn and be done with it.
And he is already on the server side of things...
Re:with a name like that (Score:5, Funny)
"I'm Rod Vagg and I'm here to fork you."
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So he tweets an article about the downsides of codes of conduct, and they try to use the code of conduct to get him removed.
Wow. QED.
Dear SJW asswipes, this has fuck all to do with Node.JS. Please eat shit.
P.S. every project should dump their code of conduct immediately. They exist ONLY to allow blue haired lunatics to remove you and take over your project.
"Unresponsive Leadership" (Score:4, Insightful)
Should be non-reactionary leadership, forking it for social justice is ridiculous.
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Should be non-reactionary leadership, forking it for social justice is ridiculous.
It's supposed to be a meritocracy is it not? So if contributors who have sufficient merit are leaving then it's not really a meritocracy, it's a "put-up-with-shit"ocracy.
Re:"Unresponsive Leadership" (Score:5, Insightful)
Define 'merit'.
The people behind this fork have zero code contributions. We'll see if _anybody_ who codes follows them.
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The people behind this fork have zero code contributions.
Is that true? Ok, I'm calming down now. I just realized that anybody can fork a project, I do it all the time on Github.
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Hmmmm so a bunch of loonies are worked up over someone hitting the fork button in github then? That's the entire point of github.
Re:"Unresponsive Leadership" (Score:4, Insightful)
With this though, being forked on social justice ground, it's harder to tell.
It's not harder to tell. This will go down in a cycle of madness. Soon, any company that uses the real NodeJS will be ostracized because they "refuse to stand up to hate". Then people who don't boycott companies who use the wrong NodeJS will be targeted and their customers or employers will turn on them publicly. There's no rock bottom for social madness, it can always go further down.
This has got to stop. The current social movement is like someone having a nervous breakdown in a stalled elevator and causing other people to lose their shit too; unless someone slaps them to bring them back pretty soon the whole elevator will become a bloody ragefest.
Don't feed the lynch mob. Ignore them and their forks before it's too late.
Computing is dead (Score:5, Insightful)
Back in the day, software projects used to be killed because of technical limitations. Now they are killed because someone objects to what someone else does in their spare time.
Re:Computing is dead (Score:4, Insightful)
.... Killed by people who CLAIM to stand up for keeping "what people do in their spare time" their own private matter.
But that's only so long as they AGREE with "what people do in their spare time", meaning "Social Justice Warriors" are the intolerant bigots now.
Re: Computing is dead (Score:2)
This is insane (Score:5, Insightful)
Back in the day, software projects used to be killed because of technical limitations. Now they are killed because someone objects to what someone else does in their spare time.
So let me get this straight.
Rod Vagg tweeted using his personal twitter account, on his own time, and referred to an article which appears to be quite worthy of discussion. The title The Neurodiversity Case for Free Speech [quillette.com] pretty-much describes what one finds in the article. It's about "speech codes", and the effects of limiting what people can say.
The article is completely and totally academic, with a position and supporting argument, written by a psychology professor!
And for tweeting a link to this article, he loses his position as Director of Engineering?
You can get doxxed, threatened, and fired for having a political opinion on your own time if you get caught. Even if you don't publicly voice your opinion on the net, you can get fired for being caught on a security camera at a protest.
This political climate - the one we are living in right now - is insane.
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It's always been this way, in the US at least. You can be fired because your boss doesn't like your shoelaces and it's completely legal. Places like California, which have more restrictions than most states on what employers can and can't do in regards to how they treat employees, is often labeled as being "unfriendly" to business. If a politician tries to introduce a bill that will put further restrictions on the reasons employers can fire people, such as participating in a political event outside of worki
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Avoiding the ignorant masses is I guess, the best approach at this point.
This is no different from the hippies throwing buckets of blood to drafted soldiers coming back from a traumatizing Vietnam experience. It's just amplified because of social media. There's no name for this but those people are emotionally orthogonal to 4chan aspies; indifferent to the suffering they're causing, and at the same time aroused by their collective power.
The answer is to ignore them, but without bending over when they cross the line. The Debian fork was a proper response to a technical disagreeme
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Back in the day, software projects used to be killed because of technical limitations. Now they are killed because someone objects to what someone else does in their spare time.
So you're saying you want to bring back ReiserFS?
Yaz
Forked twice in three years? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the github page it has been forked 7,663 times. This seems to be much ado about nothing.
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Apples and oranges.
That's not what "forking" means when it comes to GitHub. You fork when you want to contribute changes back to the original project.
It doesn't mean you took your ball and went home to create a brand new project fork.
Re:Forked twice in three years? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Forked twice in three years? (Score:5, Interesting)
NO.
This fork is going to signal virtue.
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This fork is going to signal virtue.
I thought it would signal child?
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Stems from github using the word 'fork' for 'clone'. It's a really unfortunate and confusing word choice that has nothing to do with git's vocabulary.
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I fixed that by forking git and then adding a "fork" alias for "clone".
This is great! (Score:5, Insightful)
A real chance to see whether SJWs can actually code now that they have their own fork.
Posted anonymously to preempt needless forks of my own projects.
Re:This is great! (Score:5, Funny)
Has can the SJWs be so anti-Vagg?
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First thought; sarcasm,
Reading tweets; pathethic
Contemplating; why did we put up with Linus all this time?!?
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They try and 'burn him' every year or two. But 'they' don't code, hence rightfully ignored.
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I look forward to seeing what these SJW feel-good types can produce. I'll be sticking with the standard Node.js, thanks. I couldn't care less what Vagg does in his spare time, and neither should most developers. If you care more about the politics behind each line of code, then apparently you've got oodles of spare time and don't have to be productive to earn a living. Good luck with that.
Package deals (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exactely.What will be the reason next time? Forking a project because a commitee member post a tweet about how tasteful was his last deer he hunt and some contributors are vegans (or PETA supporters)? Come on!
The actual code of conduct (Score:2)
https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
I can see some problems with this CoC. For example, "trolling" is in the same league of "unacceptable behavior" as "derogatory attacks". One could also state that someone was "in violation of the CoC" by not "using welcoming and inclusive language"...enough.
Maybe someone with more HR/legal background can pipe up, but perhaps what should be done is to break out the "you're being a jackwagon" behaviors from the "yo
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Be careful, or "welcoming and inclusive" becomes sexual harassment. It's hard to steer between the fine lines of groupthink.
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Be careful, or "welcoming and inclusive" becomes sexual harassment.
No it doesn't. If you think it happened to you, you may wish to examine what you actually did.
Muh feminism! (Score:3, Insightful)
So they are forking the project because some feminist's feelz were hurt over a tweet? Holy shit...there is never a shortage of retards around.
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Well, I'm not a developer so yeah...obviously I've been asleep. lol
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Sounds about right. Just when you think you've seen the apex of "dumbest shit" someone usually finds a way to take it higher.
Please pass the salt. (Score:3, Funny)
I thought, according to Javascript is Eating the World [slashdot.org]:
JavaScript and NodeJS are single handedly eating the world of software.
Looks more like Node.js is being eaten by its own.
[ Also, I would like to point out to the editors that two things cannot "single handedly" do anything. Just sayin'. ]
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[ Also, I would like to point out to the editors that two things cannot "single handedly" do anything. Just sayin'. ]
NodeJS is basically just one really fancy and useful javascript file.
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With NodeJS, the runtime is called Node, and the language is called something that changes every year - but we mostly still call it Javascript.
Code of Conduct (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's a violation of the code of conduct to suggest a code of conduct may not be necessary? From the article I'm not seeing much about mens rights and more to do with 'neurodiversity' - though I'm aware that the support of "men's rights" is like many things, associated with nazis by the left right now (i.e. anything the populist left does not advocate). But assuming he was linking an article about men's rights, does advocating men's rights violate the Node.JS code of conduct?
I glanced at the code of conduct and saw nothing against criticizing the code of conduct, nor against the supposed support of men's rights. What I did find were guidelines saying members should "Be respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences", and "Gracefully accept constructive criticism". So are the people railing against the TSC instead violating the code of conduct?
The code of conduct can be found here: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
Which contributor is driven away? (Score:2, Interesting)
Would some possible contributors be driven away if they saw that Vagg was driven away by over zeaouls SJWs? I know I'd rather not deal with grandstanding jerks that would reject my code submission because they can't deal with my worldview not necessarily agreeing with theirs. I've got better things to do with my free time.
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Rather like CNN's original headline in their profile of Antifa (before they changed it): "Peace through violence."
Literally Orwellian.
Why does it matter? (Score:4, Interesting)
On August 21, The TSC voted on whether or not to remove Vagg from its ranks. Of the 10 TSC members who voted, 60 percent voted against removing Rod from the TSC and 60 percent voted against asking Rod to voluntarily resign. That the TSC voted to keep Vagg on the committee inflamed others in the project.
I also don't understand why it matters that some member or another of a technical project does in their own time. The project should be about the code, not someone's opinion on men's rights or whatever. It'd be different if the person used the project to forward their personal beliefs ("Node.js supports mens' rights!") but I didn't get from TFA that was the case.
Re:Why does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
It matters because bigotry, bias, racism, etc. can drive away contributors.
How do you think contributors feel about the idea that some "committee" is going to evaluate their morals and kick them out if they don't match the political manifesto du jour?
Open source is about encouraging contributors from the community, not discriminating or disparaging contributors because they happen to be a different race, sex, etc.
Open source is about code. It's not a political platform.
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And you know that is all fact?
That he thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant?
Where did he say that?
Oh wait you're putting words into his mouth and taking others out of context so you can continue with your witch hunt? OK carry on.
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And this does not drive away contributors?
Of course, if female contributors are regarded as much more valuable than male ones, it makes perfect sense (and becomes a moral abomination), but unless that is the case, this makes no sense.
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Wow! You sure read a lot into the guy just for tweeting a link to an article that asks how fair it is for neurotypicals to expect the neurodiverse to be able to conform to norms of language in a code of conduct.
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It matters because bigotry, bias, racism, etc. can drive away contributors.
Codes of conduct are intended to drive away contributes who do not espouse the correct political values.
Open source is about encouraging contributors from the community, not discriminating or disparaging contributors because they happen to be a different race, sex, etc.
And that is why open source is largely irrelevant, except where there's a single person in charge who won't put up with irrelevant bullshit. Software is about software, not politics.
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Since this person sits on the steering committee, his "barefoot-and-pregnant" ideals would bias against female contributors.
You did not even read the supposed MRA article that he tweeted did you? Here [quillette.com] skim through it. There is nothing in there about women or gender roles. The author Geoffrey Miller, an associate professor of psychology at the University of New Mexico, was making a case that speech codes can be unfairly discriminatory against people with mental health issues that make them less able to interact with people without those mental issues and are more likely to violate speech codes because of of their mental health pr
All this forking is really annoying! (Score:2)
All this forking is really annoying!
I'm half tempted to create a fork for people who want to work on a fork that doesn't fork...
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I hate ruining a fork on a clam that won't shuck.
Ugh. Seriously... learn to deal with people... (Score:2)
Demanding that every contributor to a project pass the litmus test du jour is childish... eventually, every one of us will fail.
If nothing else, it's a mark of immaturity to be unable to work with somebody who has a viewpoint you disagree with.
You change somebody's opinion by showing them you're a friendly human being, not by being an enemy they dismiss outright.
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It is how the Inquisition worked: Everyone has sinned to some degree. In order to establish power, crucify some sinners publicly, and the rest will fall in line, assuring the dominance of the right way to think. Of course, if anybody dares to suggest that the Inquisition may be wrong, crucify them first.
This is a classical, evil, medieval power concentration strategy.
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SJWs gone wild (Score:5, Insightful)
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Welcome to the world where everyone is a victim
. . . except white men. It is literally impossible for a white man to be a victim. If you kidnap a white man at gunpoint, torture him with barbed wire and stun guns, then light him on fire, it is his fault that you have PTSD from his screaming. He victimized you.
Sadly, there really are people who "think" that way.
Re:SJWs gone wild (Score:5, Informative)
The "Men't Rights Activist" is pure slander. Unfortunately, because the press does not check facts anymore, such dishonorable tactics work. Nicely shows the nature of the people at work here though. Truth is not a consideration for them, just excluding somebody that dares suggest they may be doing something wrong. The anti-discourse, anti-rational stance displayed by SJWs of all colors.
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Don't you know, only women, LGBTQ, and visible minorities are allowed rights. White men must be punished for the sins of past generations!
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If there is a code then it basically boils down to don't be a dick or at least try not to.
If a fella has tourettes he's likely to swear, it's involuntary. It's intention that matters more than the bare facts.
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But, the article makes more reference to people with Aperger Syndrome, where they may simply not understand how some things they see as completely innocent can cause offense and there's a SJW in every corner to scream that they've been offended.
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and points out that some people may have neurological diseases like Tourette's Syndrome that don't make them dangerous but may make them unable to comply with such codes.
That stinks of concern trolling to me. Most instance of Tourette syndrome only involve some sort of tic. Only a small fraction involve actually yelling swear words. Secondly and most importantly I doubt anyone can point to a single case where someone with Tourette's syndrome got ejected from one of these software communities for his or her
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I seriously doubt Vagg would give a rat's ass for Tourette's Syndrome. He is not trying to defend some minority here. He posted a link to that article because he does not like the code of conduct he is so often criticized for violating.
Apparently there is a whole set of incidents [twimg.com] involving Vagg that people are upset about. There is nothing in the article itself that is offensive. It is about him dismissing the code of conduct people call him on.
Citing that tweet as a code of conduct violation makes the S
Now I see... (Score:5, Interesting)
A quick scan of the (long) article that Vagg commented on reveals why the SJWs are so upset. The article is a direct attack on their worldview. The TL;DR version of the article is that people think differently, and the speech codes that have come into vogue at universities therefore discriminate against specific minorities. WTF is a self-flagellating SJW to do when the fight to uphold the victimization of ever smaller sets of imagined minorities ends up victimizing a minority? The cognitive dissonance must be so debilitating that they can't get away from it even in their safe space echo chambers.
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Hopefully, their head asplode.
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And that is pretty much it. They try with all their might to gloss over the fact they they are the problem here because their codes of conduct discriminate and exclude people.
Immature (Score:2)
Just prove how immature are Node.js project contributors.
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SJWs are destroyers (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a good example. They fracture communities, exclude everybody whose world-view they do not like, suppress opinions, perform inquisitions into private, non-criminal activities and generally place PC far above performance and technological skill. It is a reasonable assumption that node.js at the very least got much weaker due to a non-technical issue. These are exactly the people that made the dark ages dark. And they seem to want that state back.
The new project, called Ayo (Score:2)
Ayo? LMAO!
I know all the good names are taken, but srsly
That reminds me (Score:2)
How is SJLinux [slashdot.org] doing?
Keep at it, little buckeroo, you'll get there someday!
Ayo? (Score:2)
Auckland Youth Orchestra?
A song by "chris brown" and "tyga"?
A singer-songwriter?
Some wearable app controlled something-a-rather snake oil?
Sorry Ayo, not even PageRank thinks you're relevant
Didn't get any mention of "ayo js" until page 3. Usually I support "Page 3", but not this kind.
Good (Score:2)
Does agreeing with this make me an SJW? (Score:2)
I doubt this will do anything, since it's a fork and the forkers would need to convince everyone to switch. It is an interesting symbolic gesture though.
I know my opinion is very different from most Slashdotters on this subject, but I actually see some of the points these "SJWs" are trying to make. Everyone has the right to free speech, but leading a public open source project means that people will put a little more scrutiny on you than the average person. Publically supporting a position like MRA in a pol
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Make all contributors feel welcome. (Score:2)
Except those who fail the political purity test.
When you have two sets of contributors who refuse to work with one another, you cannot keep both sets. You can only choose between them.
Which you have. You don't get to pretend you're welcoming everyone after that.
When the political purity test is more important than the code, the project died a long time ago.
Does the Irony not escape anyone else too? (Score:2)