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Java EE Is Moving To the Eclipse Foundation (adtmag.com) 70

Oracle has chosen the Eclipse Foundation to be the new home of the Java Platform Enterprise Edition (Java EE), the company announced this week. Oracle made the decision in collaboration with IBM and Red Hat, the two other largest contributors to the platform. From a report: "The Eclipse Foundation has strong experience and involvement with Java EE and related technologies," wrote Oracle software evangelist David Delabassee in a blog post. This will help us transition Java EE rapidly, create community-friendly processes for evolving the platform, and leverage complementary projects such as MicroProfile. We look forward to this collaboration." Mike Milinkovich, executive director of the Eclipse Foundation, is optimistic about this move, which he said is exactly what the enterprise Java needs and what the community has been hoping for.
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Java EE Is Moving To the Eclipse Foundation

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  • The article says that Oracle will continue to support its Weblogic server, but what about JBoss?

  • As a former NetBean IDE user, I find this development disturbing.
    • As a former NetBean IDE user, I find this development disturbing.

      This is just the Java EE spec moving to the Eclipse Foundation, not Java SE or the standard Java SE implementation. So while it may slightly increase Eclipse IDE adoption, the decision won't have undo impact on NetBeans, IntelliJ or other IDEs.

    • Having tried both (althought not for a long time), I always remember NetBeans being much more polished and never understood why Eclipse was so popular.

      • I guess it has been a long time. Eclipse has WAY more useful functionality than Netbeans.

        • by mark-t ( 151149 )
          It's probably subjective, but can you be more specific?
          • It's probably subjective, but can you be more specific?

            When I was in college 15 years ago, NetBeans was more polished and ran better on my Dell laptop. Eclipse today probably has more plugins than NetBeans to do something else beside Java. When I developed PHP modules for Joomla ten years ago, I used Eclipse with the PHP plugin. Today I use PyCharm for Python that is based on the IntelliJ IDEA IDE.

          • by Gr8Apes ( 679165 )
            Let's put it this way - Eclipse 2.x in 2003 or so was essentially a piece of crap. By 2005 or so, with Eclipse 3.0, it was much much better. I use both Eclipse and IntelliJ these days, and can say that Eclipse has IntelliJ beat in many areas, but there are a few IntelliJ pieces that are better. Visual Studio is several notches below both, as is XCode, although those both have their specific uses. Netbeans in the one version (6?) I attempted to use reminded me much of Visual Cafe. Clunky, obtuse, and just pl
            • by mark-t ( 151149 )
              Clunky, obtuse, and difficult are nice adjectives, but they are still quite vague on details.
              • by Gr8Apes ( 679165 )
                Considering when that version was released, I can only relay my impressions at this time. I'm sure improvements happened since then, but the main impression I retained was that it was a fundamentally different approach to development, more in line with older IDEs that failed. I recall things like IBM's rational rose integrated IDE that did some weird object oriented based views of code, instead of how everyone else does it. I also recall having to hit a lot more odd interstitial menus to accomplish simple t
      • The version control plug in of Eclipse, especially abstracting away the conflicting wordings of the various SCC systems, is the best I have ever seen.

        And don't forget: Eclipse has a vi/vim plug in, too.

      • Speaking for myself, I use Eclipse because I develop for a wide array of platforms, and using a number of different languages.

        Eclipse can accommodate everything I need, so I can use the same IDE for all of my projects. That's a pretty huge win.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Well, depending on when you were in college, Java's probably got a lot better since then. But we're not talking about Java. Java EE isn't a language; it's large framework written in Java for creating complex distributed systems, along with specifications for how to package and deploy software written in that framework.

      Early versions of Java EE had serious design flaws, the most serious of which was that it used a kind of thin interface to theoretically remoteable objects that in practice seldom were. Unde

  • by supertrooper ( 2073218 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @09:58AM (#55187807)
    As Eclipse IDE user maybe I'm bias, but at least things are moving in the right direction
    • by ledow ( 319597 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @10:10AM (#55187879) Homepage

      The right direction being "Oracle washing their hands of it and having nothing more to do with it as they can't monetise it", so yes. This is definitely going in the right direction.

      At least they didn't just kill it off and bury it, like some of the other things they took over.

      Oracle's touch is like a death-knell to everything from Solaris to OpenOffice.

      • by fnj ( 64210 )

        they can't monetise it

        You mean they can't FIGURE OUT HOW to monetize it.

    • It's an interesting development. IBM started an IDE to compete with SUN development products (Eclipse, get it?). Oracle buys SUN. Now what's left of SUN (Java EE, at least) gets handed over to IBM.

      Eclipse, indeed!

  • As a Jetbrains Professional subscription user, I don't see how this affects me one way or the other.
  • C/C++ just has compilers and libraries. There's no special "enterprise" version of the compiler (well, not on linux/unix, MS VC++ might be a different story) so why does java have to have these artificial demarcations other than as marketing device?

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @10:46AM (#55188141)

      Java is not just a language, it is also a platform (JVM, APIs, etc). The different editions are for the plaform not the language. So there is a platform for 'normal' usage (SE), a platform for long-running, network intensive applications (EE), and a platform for lightweight use (ME).

      • by fnj ( 64210 )

        You didn't answer the question. The question is, why can't the "platform" mumo jumbo just be furnished as add-on libraries?

        • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

          I did answer the question. It is more than 'just libraries'. The JVM, for example, is not 'just a library'.

          The 'editions' are just specifications. They are closer to something like POSIX than 'C'. The editions specify not only the libraries, but also things like how applications should be packaged, etc. If your Java installation meets the spec for the 'edition' that is required by an application, then you can run the application WITHOUT having to install a bunch of libraries, etc.

        • by jeremyp ( 130771 )

          JEE is a specification. It's a set of APIs and specifications for packaging applications. Typically, it is furnished as add-on libraries.

    • by angel'o'sphere ( 80593 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @10:49AM (#55188161) Journal

      Java is not a compiler.

      It is a huge set of specifications, a huge set of standard libraries, and a mountain of open source frameworks and platforms. And VMs ...

      SE: standard edition, mainly for desktop apps, but the line to EE is blurry
      EE: enter prise edition, defines standards for accessing DBs, do OR mapping (via annotations (*)), have annotation(*) based REST/SOAP services and build in tools to support development or out of the box deployment

      In other words, if you want to run a C++ web service, you first need a web server (extra download and install) where you can deploy your *.so/*.dll to, then you configure something that the web server knows what requests to route to your plug in.

      In Java EE, there is a build in web server, and you simply deploy the *.dll analogon (a *.war) and the server configures everything automatically, based on annotations (*)

      (*) an annotation can be considered as a smart comment. The compiler puts it into the object code and the deployment environment interprets it (with framework support) and weaves the necessary missing code around it or uses reflection to orchestrate what ever the annotations are supposed to do.

      • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

        Its a framework on top of the Java language. It should have been called something else to prevent confusion, but Sun wanted to make sure the word Java was plastered everywhere.

        • Naming things in an unclear and/or confusing manner is a time-honored tradition in the Java world.

          • Using as many acronyms as possible all starting with/having a J is also a time-honored tradition. What with EJB, JAAS, JAX-WS, JAX-RS, JSP, JSF, JTA, JPA, JMS, JCA, and on and on and on the list goes.

        • And how exactly would you name a Java release/bundle/specification that is aimed for enterprices and business applications like Amazon or Twitter?

          Enterprise Edition sounds fine dor me.

          • by fnj ( 64210 )

            Oh for Christ sake. It's Java. Period. The same goddam language syntax as any other "edition" of Java. Why do you have to try to make it sound grand? Linux is written in C, not "Super OS Developer's Edition C". So it includes a whole lot of functions. So what.

            • Yeah, and a CD is the same as a DVD is the same as a Blue Ray Disk ...

              There are about 5 editions of Java:
              Standard Edition
              Enterprise Edition
              Micro/mobile Editon
              Inoffical real time Edition
              Inofficial (several) embedded Edition

              Deal with it.

              No idea what you want to rant about.

              So it includes a whole lot of functions. So what.
              If you want to break it down to this level of ignorance: yes, Java EE has more functions than Java SE. Facepalm.

          • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

            Anything without Java in the name, to decrease the level of confusion. Like every other framework in the world. It was an idiotic decision driven by morons and marketers.

            • And what would be the alternative to power Amazon, Zalando, Google, Twitter?
              Just to name a few?

              C? Assembly?

              Please go back under your rock, troll.

              • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

                Amazon was more than 50% C++ when I worked there. And those services tended to be more reliable. But at any rate, I said the NAME of an enterprise framework shouldn't include Java, which a 2nd grade reading comprehension would have told you. That name has only ever caused confusion.

                • And why should it not contain Java, when the inventor of Java thinks so?
                  After all it is a Java VM, with a javac compiler and Java enterprise specifications with reference implementations in the Java language?
                  And it is completely useless for C++ or other languages unless you want to interface those vi JNI with "Java"?

                  shouldn't include Java, which a 2nd grade reading comprehension would have told you.
                  Then you should perhaps use first grade writing skills, or have a clue about what you write. Why a Java Edi

                  • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

                    Because its not Java. Java is a language. J2EE is a framework on top of it. Once again, some lessons in reading comprehension would really help you out.

                    • Java is an island some where in the Pacific.
                      Java is a enterprise computing platform and frameworks.
                      Java is a programming language.

                      Feel free to run your 'J2EE' framework dependent applications on a backend without installing the Java Enterprise Edition.

                      I might have overseen an important statement you want to make, however you seem just to be a nitpicker.
                      No one really understands/grasps what you want to say.

                      Google around and install 'Java the language' on your computer, and see how fat that gets you.

    • Naming is stupid, geared to large business acceptance. Microsoft has the same .Net language, but with IDE differences instead of language differences. And they have a compact framework with a subset of language features like ME.

      https://stackoverflow.com/ques... [stackoverflow.com]

    • by naris ( 830549 )
      "Java EE" is not the language, it's the platform/framework/API for web applications. It's more like Microsoft MFC or .net then C++ or C#
  • by dmt0 ( 1295725 ) on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @10:44AM (#55188125)
    Of Sun
  • by Anonymous Coward

    https://blogs.oracle.com/theaquarium/opening-up-ee-update

  • The less that I have to deal with Oracle, the better my life is.

    • by PCM2 ( 4486 )

      I'm certain IBM was one of the main ones jockeying for this, and IBM seems to prefer the Eclipse Foundation for whatever reason.

  • IBM chose the name "Eclipse" to fight against "Sun" and that was the primary reason for Sun to not join Eclipse. It was derogatory to them. Now it is Eclipse which forever going to hide Sun. With OpenOffice, Sparc and Solaris going away, Java was the only remnant of Sun under Oracle (which acquired Sun) and now that too is gone. Effectively, Oracle is now Sun free and will have Eclipse instead (it is not getting rid of J2EE from its products).

    • Wellll, IBM was pretty ticked off at Sun for trying to disrupt their mainframe market with the E10K line models back in the late 90's. Now REAL irony was that the company I worked for actually had a lease for their E10K (Sun product), with.... you guessed it IBM.

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