JavaScript Rules But Microsoft Programming Languages Are On the Rise

Microsoft languages seem to be hitting the right note with coders across ops, data science, and app development. From a report: JavaScript remains the most popular programming language, but two offerings from Microsoft are steadily gaining, according to developer-focused analyst firm RedMonk's first quarter 2018 ranking. RedMonk's rankings are based on pull requests in GitHub, as well as an approximate count of how many times a language is tagged on developer knowledge-sharing site Stack Overflow. Based on these figures, RedMonk analyst Stephen O'Grady reckons JavaScript is the most popular language today as it was last year. In fact, nothing has changed in RedMonk's top 10 list with the exception of Apple's Swift rising to join its predecessor, Objective C, in 10th place. The top 10 programming languages in descending order are JavaScript, Java, Python, C#, C++, CSS, Ruby, and C, with Swift and Objective-C in tenth.

TIOBE's top programming language index for March consists of many of the same top 10 languages though in a different order, with Java in top spot, followed by C, C++, Python, C#, Visual Basic .NET, PHP, JavaScript, Ruby, and SQL. These and other popularity rankings are meant to help developers see which skills they should be developing. Outside the RedMonk top 10, O'Grady highlights a few notable changes, including an apparent flattening-out in the rapid ascent of Google's back-end system language, Go.

typescript?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about typescript? It's javascript, it's microsoft, #overload

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

typeScript and PowerShell

JavaScript Rules

[Hognoxious]

"JavaScript Rules". Who submitted this, Beavis & Butthead?

Heh heh. Ada sucks. Huh huh.

Re:

[Bryansix]

The Rolex is more likely to survive due to a flaw in the wristband design on Casio G-Shock watches. It can also take repeated knocks just like the G-shock but it might need a little polishing after.

Re:

[superwiz]

Heh heh. Ada sucks. Huh huh.

A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell.

Re:

[mcl630]

The two MS languages that rose, Typescript and PowerShell, aren't mentioned in the summary. They both moved up the list, but aren't in the top 10.

Using Stack Overflow is stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

So the most fucked up and confusing languages will generate the most questions and get labeled as the most popular?

Re:Using Stack Overflow is stupid

[DavidHumus]

Or the language with the most newbies.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the only way Microsoft languages can show higher on a list. And they they pay someone to write about the list so it sounds new and informative even when the list is the same as it was the year before and possibly the year before that. Usually adding wording about Microsoft x, y or z picking up share get sprinkled around too.

Marketing, marketing marketing or was that Developers, developers, developers during a marketing conference.
   

Re:

[DCFusor]

Oh, for mod points...^^^^

Re:

[holophrastic]

Beat me to it.

How about a study ranking the languages that seem to be the most reliable -- as in they've been used for decades, continue to be used, run systems un-upgraded for decades, and need little-to-no new help from random strangers?

In my career, I've been using Perl since 1997, when I abandoned lotus notes. I've still got production code from back then -- it's funny to see some of my really old comments from half-a-life ago.

I'll say this for perl: like it or hate it, the documentation is everywhere

Re:

[exomondo]

Not everything on the WWW is a website, if it requires Javascript it's often a webapp or dynamic content presentation. Static content generally doesn't need javascript. There are plenty of web applications out there, Google Docs for instance or Apple's iCloud suite, most webmail.

BS

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank god,

I hate Oracle and Microsoft products. Oracle is expensive af and doesn't offer much that other databases can't offer. Don't even get me started on that POS APEX

Is it just me or is it hard to find negative opinions or well written reviews of why Oracle products are bad? Does Oracle send out the gestapo when someone has a dissenting opinion of them that isn't a random comment?

Re:BS

[fred6666]

Of course. Just like you can use Swift for something else than developing for Apple products.
Yet, they are not used outside mother's basements.

Could you name one major piece of software written in C# not specifically made to be executed on Windows? Without a visual studio project file in the source repository?

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of Unity games use C# and it uses mono to do it. I mean, you could also use it with Visual Studio and in that case you will get a solution and project file, but you don't have to. Unity3D games run on IOS, HTML5, linux and MacOS.

Re:BS

[Prien715]

Here's a couple hundred [wikipedia.org]. ...and that's just games based on the Unity game engine. One game, Hearthstone [wikipedia.org], has over 10 million players and its client runs on iOS/Android/Windows/macOS.

Re:BS

[fred6666]

Nice try, but

The Unity runtime is written in C/C++. This runtime is used in any build you create using the editor - for webplayers and plugins it is installed separate from your build, whereas it is included in it for stand-alones and other platforms such as iPhone and Wii.

The editor is built on the Unity runtime and additionally includes editor-specific C/C++ binaries.

Wrapped around the Unity core is a layer which allows for .net access to core functionality. This layer is used for user scripting and for most of the editor UI.

So most of the important code is C/C++.
And nothing tells me that API it isn't being developed on Windows using Visual Studio.
The main platform of these games is probably Windows, even though their very first game was developped for Mac OS X.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the "no true scotsman" in fine form.

Re:

[Hognoxious]

You: I'm a vegetarian.
Him: But you just ate a steak.
You: But cows eat grass, so the important part of my meal was a plant.

Re:

[fred6666]

which one of the popular games based on the unity engine are not developed in Visual Studio and/or don't run on Windows?

Re:

[Hognoxious]

I don't know, and neither do you.

Not that it's relevant to the point at hand.

Re:

[fred6666]

If you read the discussion, you'd understand why it is relevant.

My original question was:

Could you name one major piece of software written in C# not specifically made to be executed on Windows? Without a visual studio project file in the source repository?

Re:

[Hognoxious]

No, your claim in comment 56250303 was that nobody writes in C# because the IDE, libraries etc were written in C/C++.

Which is like saying wooden tables aren't made of wood because the tree was cut down using a metal saw.

Re:

[fred6666]

No, your claim in comment 56250303 was that nobody writes in C# because the IDE, libraries etc were written in C/C++.

.

I never claimed that.

The Unity Engine is written in C/C++. Games using it may be developed in C#. I am asking if there is any example of one of these game which is
1. popular/major
2. Not targeting the Windows OS (or xbox or any other Microsoft platform)
3. Not developed in Visual Studio

Re:

[fred6666]

Also if most of the game is not written in C# but uses a small piece of C# to interface with Unity, that would be a very poor example.

Re:BS

[fred6666]

I do.
But there is no killer application on Linux requiring mono. Hence, most people don't even bother installing it.
Unlike say, perl and python, which are must-have.
Is there a popular desktop environment, web browser, or even text editor for Linux written in C#? I understand some kid probably wrote a text editor for fun, but I meant something actually used?

Re:BS

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Yes, and I've tried it. However, outside of non-trivial applications (and perhaps internal business apps developed with Xamarin), cross-platform support for C#-based apps is pretty poor.

Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities

[mykepredko]

Unfortunately, Visual Studio is still something that colleges and universities rely upon when teaching students.

That means that VC++, C#, .NET are the tools students are entering the job market with.

Re:

[Junta]

I recall back in college, a professor said 'ok, we aren't going to use this, but I'm required to give each of you a copy of visual studio, so here you go'.

This is a huge reason to be wary of the various 'corporation wants to "help" teach computing' situation. All those free/extreme discount student licenses? Well the first hit is free.

Re:

[dwpro]

I recall back in college, we developed on sun ultrasparks using feature poor text editors, and spent much time pouring over code for simple typos and parsing core dumps. Now as a professional developer I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to purchase a visual studios license if it weren't provided by work. Much of enterprise software is useless and overpriced-but not visual studios, IMHO.

Re:

[Hognoxious]

and spent much time pouring over code

Isn't that rather messy?

Re:

[dwpro]

Quite, as one might expect from a bunch of nerds crowded in poorly ventilated computer lab. Thank you for keeping the pedant spirit of Slashdot alive Hognoxious. *fedora tip*

Re:

[Junta]

To be honest, that's not a terrible strategy to begin programming. Get a feel and understanding up front for some of the fundamentals before letting an IDE do it for you. I've run into too many folks that can't make a simple C program and compile it, without making it a project.

As it moves up, there are a variety of IDEs in the world, and it would be wise to have curriculum ensure exposure to them in diverse ways. A curriculum that produces good well rounded professionals should have the users adept at u

I wish Linux had Visual Studio

[Anonymous Coward]

Visual Studio is my favorite IDE. I wish Linux had something as good as Visual Studio.

Re:I wish Linux had Visual Studio

[mcl630]

They do... it's called Visual Studio Code for Linux.

Re:

[KlomDark]

I have both and use both. I use Visual Studio 2017 for coding C#-based Web API backend stuff, and ASP.NET MVC front-ends. (Stuff with a .vsproj type of project) It is by far the best tool for that type of development.

But when you want to do something like React with Node, using the package.json project format used by NPM/Yarn/Etc, then VS Code is the better way to go. VS 2017 gets in the way pretty bad when you just want to do something like npm install --save .

I don't see either gunning for the other one's

Re:

[mcl630]

They previous anon said:

>Visual Studio is my favorite IDE. I wish Linux had something as good as Visual Studio.

VS Code is pretty much just the VS IDE, exactly what he's asking for.

Re:

[michael_wojcik]

I've been writing software for several decades, and I've yet to see the appeal of any IDE. (And I've used a lot of them.) Why use a limited set of functions when you can have a good shell (of your choice), a huge and easily extensible collection of general-purpose tools, and the editor, debugger, and build toolchain you prefer?

When I'm doing woodworking or fixing something mechanical, I can put whatever tools I want on my workbench. I'm not limited to a set of tools that came with it; that would be idiotic.

Re:BS

[cheesybagel]

There's nothing wrong with Java in a business environment and elsewhere. The issue is with the way people THINK Java should be programmed, with design patterns, and Hungarian notation. The language itself and the runtime has its warts but it ain't actually THAT bad.

Now for high performance computing I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Floating point performance in Java sucks and the mandatory garbage collection is another issue. Then again most of the proposed Java replacement have the exact same issues. Go also has a GC for example. Python is great, to write prototypes, but it has even worse performance than Java.

Re:

[angel'o'sphere]

If you have a program handling big amounts of data, in a kind of random fashion, then GC is completely irrelevant.
Malloc and free, or new/delete have the same overhead. And then again you still see people do stuff like:

if (ptr != NULL) {
delete ptr;
ptr = NULL;
}

And then come and claim a GC is slower ...

Sorry, from 100 C++ programmers there is probably 1 who can write a program that beats Java's garbage collector.
I rather have 100 Java programmers where 99 don't need

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[angel'o'sphere]

That has nothing to do with bad or good programmers.
C++ jobs are super rare.

And time to market is often more important than the raw speed of the program.

There are 5 of us in my office, and three of us can run rings around the java GC.
Then show me the benchmark and the Java program.

The simple reason is that good programmers understand how
You mean good in Java or good in C++?

not to mess up caching.
Obviously cashing has nothing to do with memory management as in allocating and freeing, so I take your claim

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[angel'o'sphere]

So, you did not get my example at all?

Why the funk does one make a null check? Usually you KNOW if the ptr at that place is null or not.

I regularly see C++ code that is cluttered with "better safe than sorry" null checks. That belongs to "allocation/deallocation" or more general "memory management" code.

No one is using "generic GCs" anymore. Java uses a concurrent multi generation heap allocator/GC. Actually it has several GC algorithms you can pick from.

Again: I don't care if YOU can write a C++ program wi

Re:

[gymell]

I have been a Java developer for almost 20 years, most of that as a consultant so I've been on a lot of projects across many clients and industries. I never seen Hungarian notation used or even suggested. Many design patterns that were popular early on have fallen out of favor as well.

Re:

[cheesybagel]

Yeah, it's even worse, it's verbose Hungarian. You typically have the type of the object and the full path of the class name, and an overly verbose description to boot. I keep pressing TAB to auto-complete names whenever I program in Java. That's the major reason why you shouldn't even bother programming in J2EE without an IDE. The other reason to use an IDE is the inane amount of boilerplate code you need to type, which makes code generators essential rather than just nice to have.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

True at my work! Currently re-writing the universe using C++ on Linux. Legacy stuff is C# on Windows. No one so much as reminisces about any "good old days". All devs are happier now.

Re:

[Greyfox]

There's definitely some of that going on as developers try to pad their resumes with the likes of go and rust. At least the ruby fad seems to be dying down a bit. I still get way too many recruiters approaching me about ruby positions, and I really don't think I can maintain another production project in that language.

Re:BS

[Kjella]

As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise.

Every enterprise customer thinks what they have is terrible but usually end up switching to a different enterprise vendor and discover that it's equally terrible. Then they try home brew and discover that people develop in ten different languages with a hundred different frameworks and technologies and that Ruby on Rails, Python, PHP, Node.JS and ASP.Net don't mix well and start running consolidation and standardization projects and if you're really unlucky they call in SAP or some other big ERP to gut the whole mess. We still have a solution written in VB6, whatever you pick now expect you'll be stuck with it 10-20 years from now long after the fad is over and it's legacy technology you want to kill with fire.

Re:

[DogDude]

Microsoft offers the best in class in many cases. Especially among small businesses, their stuff is very affordable, too.

Re:

[rtb61]

Still just a pretty lame M$ pump piece, how to tell it's a pump piece, the hid what they did not want you to see. Sure they sure they set the order of the most used programs but where is the numbers behind it, you know like percentages. Look if number one is getting say 50% and number 14 is getting 0.5% who cares, what the hell number fourteen is doing when it beats out number 15 who got 0.49 percent. Only one reason to hide the numbers that really counted and only show the B$ meaningless numbers, the real

Re:

[Tablizer]

As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise. [Emphasis added]

That may indeed be true IF you consider that most enterprises are NOT smart.

The enterprise world is a Dilbertian distopia.

Re:

[micahraleigh]

You'd rather use Java than C# ?

Re:

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Visual Basic .NET </pedantic>

Wrong place to look to plan your career skills

[mykepredko]

While it's always interesting to see what is going in and out of GitHub, I don't feel like it's going to be a good predictor of what you should be focusing on to be highly desirable in the market six months to a year in a future (when you've mastered programming in the language).

If I was coaching somebody looking at what to look at towards the future, I would be recommending (in order of priority) Go, WebAssembly (built from C source) and then Swift will probably be in high demand towards the end of 2018 with few coders skilled in them and there being a need for apps on the Google, Mac and web platforms.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on that person's career objectives:
If they want jump jobs every 2 years and in between employment gigs learn the new language of the week, your advise is great and if they ride a bubble up they'll be rich.

If they want steady, stable (but maybe more boring) employment, recommend C that was been in the top 10 since the lists started.

Re:Wrong place to look to plan your career skills

[Dutch Gun]

I'd first ask them what sort of programming career they'd be interested in, and then tailor my recommendations from there. There are many industries which are heavily skewed towards particular languages. Which do you think would be the most important language in the following fields?

* Videogame programming
* Web programming
* Enterprise application programming
* Mobile development
* Scientific and engineering programming

The languages a programmer would want to learn is likely different for each one of these career paths. In the case of my particular career (videogames), you'd be offering terrible advice. C++ completely dominates AAA game development, followed by C#, and a smattering of also-rans.

Programming languages don't exist in a vacuum. They all have strengths and weaknesses, and trying to distill them into a generic popularity contest is a mistake, at least when it comes to career choices.

CSS is a programming language?

[Prien715]

The top 10 programming languages [include]...CSS

That tells you all you need to know about this "study". CSS is a mark-up language -- not a programming language (unless you're on the sadistic side as it is technically Turing complete).

Re:

[K. S. Kyosuke]

I'd call it a data structure serialization/external format, seeing as mark-up languages actually mark up some prose.

Re:

[jetkust]

They likely know what CSS is. There was just no point in making that distinction, since like you just mentioned, there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

Re:

[Prien715]

there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

There is a in fact [wikipedia.org] a difference. No one uses it as a programming languages, except for purposes of discussions such as this one.

Re:

[jetkust]

there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

There is a in fact [wikipedia.org] a difference. No one uses it as a programming languages, except for purposes of discussions such as this one.

It didn't take me long to find this:
https://medium.mybridge.co/26-... [mybridge.co]
and this:
https://codepen.io/collection/... [codepen.io]

They are using the term programming language for simplicity sake, and are not technically incorrect.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

CSS is starting to get SOME scripting language-ish things embedded into it. For example, calc() is a rudimentary expression evaluator that can add, subtract, multiply, and divide very basic expressions (e.g. calc(100% - 50px);). But is it a scripting language? As far as I know, CSS is not Turing-complete (yet) but is certainly a pain to parse into lexical tokens.

Microsoft created the 'behavior' back around IE 5.5, which would load and execute an external bit of code from CSS. Don't know (and don't reall

How do they measure?

[guruevi]

There are different lists and get completely different results. Just because a lot of stuff is being talked about doesn't mean it's being used, it just means it's difficult to use and whoever tries needs a lot of help (eg. anything Microsoft)

Microsoft wants to own it all

[Rick Schumann]

Microsoft has a history of seeking/creating a monopoly regardless of what dirty tactics they might use and this would be no different if true. They'd like nothing better than to be the sole source of all things computing, and to become the de-facto owner/operator of anything with a microprocessor in it.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

not worth being outraged over

[Anonymous Coward]

In the actual article all that was pointed out was PowerShell and TypeScript are rising (both ranked #17). PowerShell isn't really a language it's just like bash for Azure. TypeScript is probably gaining popularity due to its use in Angular 2 (or whatever the hell it's being called these days).

How MS did it

[Tablizer]

There's a place for both dynamic and static/compiled (s/c) languages. The problem is that there's not enough mature competitors in the s/c field for general application development. It's mostly a race between Java and MS (C#/VBnet), but Oracle screwed up Java via lawsuits and other missteps, making MS more attractive relative speaking.

Dynamic language interpreters are generally easier to design and implement than compilers because the type system is simpler or non-existent ("tag-free typing"); and it's easi

Redmonk influenced by Redmond?

[saccade.com]

That name is awfully suspicious.

Javascript

[NotSoHeavyD3]

JavaScript remains the most popular programming language

-----

Popular as in used because it's the only option, not because people want to use it over pretty much anything else.

Giving the devil his due

[Locke2005]

Here's the thing: I really wanted to hate C#, but it's better than C++. What they did is look at all the common mistakes programmers made in C++, and tried to design a language it was impossible to make those mistakes in. Combined with managed code, it makes bad programmers more productive. Of course, it's slow, bloated, and tied to the Microsoft/WIndows ecosystem. But if I was offshoring all my Windows work to India, I'd be happier if they were using C#. Of course, if were developing in Linux or for multip

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[ndykman]

.Net Core has been running on Linux for over a year, and while you don't get everything, you get quite a lot. It's not nearly as tied to Windows as it used to be and it is become more of it's own independent ecosystem.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

FUCK EVERYTHING MICROSOFT

[sproketboy]

Languages for LOOOOOOOSERS

I wrote this item, too: mine got lost

[the gmr]

Not disparage ms.mash's excellent summary here, but I wrote this one, too, last week, and mine seemed to get lost in the firehose. I am new to Slashdot. Do duplicates happen often? Here's mine - https://slashdot.org/submissio... [slashdot.org]

Re: Only LUDDITES use JavaScript.

[Anonymous Coward]

No blockchain ? Luddite !