Microsoft Launches Free Python Programming Video Series On YouTube (zdnet.com) 63
An anonymous reader quotes ZDNet:
Microsoft has launched a new 44-part series called Python for Beginners on YouTube, consisting of three- to four-minute lessons from two self-described geeks at Microsoft who love programming and teaching.
The course isn't quite for total beginners as it assumes people have done a little programming in JavaScript or played around with the MIT-developed Scratch visual programming language aimed at kids. But it could help beginners kick-start ambitions to build machine-learning apps, web applications, or automate processes on a desktop.... It has published a page on GitHub containing additional resources, including slides and code samples to help students become better at Python.
The course isn't quite for total beginners as it assumes people have done a little programming in JavaScript or played around with the MIT-developed Scratch visual programming language aimed at kids. But it could help beginners kick-start ambitions to build machine-learning apps, web applications, or automate processes on a desktop.... It has published a page on GitHub containing additional resources, including slides and code samples to help students become better at Python.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Apples and oranges. Wanting to keep Python 2 and downloading, understanding, maintaining, etc. Python 2 are not in the same category. There's nothing wrong with expressing a preference for Python 2 and not being willing to do the leg work for it. Put another way, users are not developers.
Re:No thanks Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
The Python devs maintained Python 2, for free, for nearly 20 years. That's really all that's ending.
Most people probably won't want to stick with an old version indefinitely (although it's not always an unreasonable route to take), and most people can't or don't want to do the maintenance legwork themselves, so that leaves 2 main options:
1) Adopt the main version of Python that came out over 10 years ago, and in exchange continue to get the free maintenance labor.
2) Pay someone to maintain your preferred version for as long as you want.
#1 is a pretty sweet deal, but #2 is completely valid too.
Re: (Score:2)
You forgot option 3: update to Python 3. It's not really that hard.
Re: (Score:2)
That's option #1 in my list. :)
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, right you are. Misread that.
They could also just keep using Python 2. It's not like the interpreter is going to stop working, and there's an awful lot of code using ancient compilers and interpreters for other languages.
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong. It is a very labor intensive effort for the huge Python 2 codebases. It won't be done, because Python 2 will be supported for years in business-grade distros.
No one has to use the different language that is python 3, the python developers only showed they don't have the wisdom to make a backwards compatible language, and so someday python will die same as Perl 6, when the time finally comes many years from now that Python 2 won't be supported.
Re: (Score:1)
FUD. It's not a "different language." There are a handful of things that changed, and more than a decade of lead time before the official end of support, and likely another decade of easy availability. For anybody who really, really absolutely can't update their code, well, the source is right there. Go nuts.
Re: (Score:2)
it is different language when code won't run. It is fact most businesses haven't and won't update their python 2 code. The python developer manlettes don't understand the adult world and they blew it. This "throwing out the baby with the bath water" every now and then won't cut it in the real world, that's what separates hobbyist fad languages from the decades old tried and true ones that do all the serious computation in this world.
Someday, Python 4 will be a different language too, but the businesses u
Re: (Score:2)
No, the businesses with huge Python 2 codebases (which is most of Python in existence) will just use the supported Python 2 in their distros for the next 6+ years.
There is no reason to change, other than to consider how they will finally throw Python in the garbage can when there is no support for Python 2, because the developers aren't serious, not making backwards compatibility. That's a kiss of death for any language that wants to be in serious commercial use.
Re: (Score:2)
they will finally throw Python in the garbage can when there is no more FREE support for Python 2
FTFY
because the developers aren't serious, not making backwards compatibility
LOL. Yeah, those goons announced years in advance that there would be a breaking change, they provided tools to assist in a decent chunk the transition, they overlapped support for both old and new versions for over a decade, they extended support for the old way years longer than originally promised, and they made all the source code freely available. Talk about a lack of seriousness!
That's a kiss of death for any language that wants to be in serious commercial use.
Well, this is demonstrably false. Regardless, it's all about tradeoffs - either route they could have chosen involved co
Re: (Score:2)
Free? No, businesses, they pay for enterprise level support including backporting. They do voice that with money to SLES and Red Hat.
Of course, that means people who use free distros will also get that benefit for nothing. That's good.
Doesn't matter when the "goons" announced they'd be immature kids gong for completely different new & shiny. That doesn't cut it in the business world, boy.
So, Pyth
Re: (Score:2)
To recap, then: some people provided stuff for free for many years, now they are working on newer stuff. They provided a transition path for those that want to use the new stuff. Those that want to stay on the old stuff are welcome to stay there, for free, for as long as they want. But if they want the old stuff to be updated, they just have to find someone to do the work, and (as you mentioned) there are those willing to be paid to do that work.
So... what exactly is your problem with all of this then? Seem
Re: (Score:2)
My two problems are
1. python 3 enthusiasts claiming impending doom for python and that everyone needs to jump on their bandwagon.
2. the python developers themselves making their language useless for long term enterprise / serious business use with their lack of wisdom and immaturity. That will bite them in the ass, repeatedly
Re: (Score:2)
My two problems are
1. python 3 enthusiasts claiming impending doom for python and that everyone needs to jump on their bandwagon.
Can you cite some examples? Seems like very little of that, if any, is from "python 3 enthusiasts".
2. the python developers themselves making their language useless for long term enterprise / serious business use with their lack of wisdom and immaturity. That will bite them in the ass, repeatedly
"useless" is just more hyperbole, especially since the language has been in use for 30 years. And there are tons of places that have used it in "long term enterprise / serious business" scenarios just fine.
But again, you seem extremely critical of how they've done it and don't seem to recognize that all decisions like this involve real tradeoffs, so I'll repeat what I asked before: what non-trivial thing have
Re: (Score:2)
I have indeed contributed to open source software. And even my contributions from two decades ago will still compile, because they were written in language managed by people that don't have the immaturity of the python developers.
"Useless" means most are NOT using Python 3. It's essentially useless.
You keep harping on "free" when most python language developers are paid, and you do know what the revenue of the Python Software Foundation is?
Re: (Score:2)
I have indeed contributed to open source software.
Ah, there it is. This really is just a bunch of armchair quarterbacking on your part - you have no first-hand knowledge of what it takes to create something anywhere as big and complex as an OSS project like Python, and you don't really understand the tradeoffs that are involved. In that light, everything you've said so far makes way more sense.
"Useless" means most are NOT using Python 3. It's essentially useless.
Saying the same thing over and over without any justification doesn't make it true. It's useless because 10 years ago they made some backwards-incompatible changes?
Re: (Score:2)
Businesses have voted, they're not going to python 3. don't know where you get "more popular than ever" from. Maybe the language python 2 is, but 3 sure isn't.
"No first hand knowledge" You're funny, I work on software that is much bigger than the python code base... written in mature language that still compiles over the decades
Re: (Score:2)
Businesses have voted, they're not going to python 3
So those links, to businesses, talking about them moving to Python 3, are ... what exactly? A little googling turns up all sorts of companies that are making or have already made the transition; I shared those particular 3 just because they are large, high profile companies, but there are gobs of others that are easy to find. There may be some holdouts that will stay on py2, sure, but your statement is objectively false.
don't know where you get "more popular than ever" from. Maybe the language python 2 is, but 3 sure isn't.
Citation please, because all evidence points to the contrary. See e.g. https://tech.wint [winton.com]
Re: (Score:3)
And it's about effin' time. Maintaining two generally incompatible versions of a language for an eternity takes away valuable resources for development. It should have been retired years ago, and if you haven't ported your stuff by now, well, it's not like they didn't give you ample announcement time!
Re: (Score:1)
No, you have it backwards.
Python 2 will be supported in enterprise distros for years, there is no reason to change.
Most enterprise code is in Python 2. The immature Python developers don't understand the value of backwards-compatibility in a language, all languages with proven track record and staying power have that.
Python 3 is now a distraction, and serious business will probably dump that immature crap when it is time to rewrite python 2 ones (over half a decade from now)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As a teacher this looks good, but. . . (Score:2)
Don't we already have enough of these (Score:2)
Hell, even Haskell monads already have too many tutorials.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I think that continued Haskell development is one of the best things to come out of Microsoft.
SPJ is doing great work, and they're letting him do what needs to be done.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Teaching Python is not Microsoft's main interest here.
They probably want to push Visual Studio Code for Python development.
Re: (Score:3)
Teaching Python is not Microsoft's main interest here.
They probably want to push Visual Studio Code for Python development.
They are also adding Python as a supported scripting language in Excel
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, anything that lets people finally dump the abomination that is VB (and JS, for that matter) is good in my books.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't expect Microsoft to be altruistic so I don't care. The course is free. If you don't want to use VSC, you're free to do so... So this is a net gain for humanity.
That aside, despite the fact that I am a total noob coder and probably don't get to have an opinion, I think there are worse MS products out there than VSC.
Re:Don't we already have enough of these (Score:4, Insightful)
Yup - lets push that 100% free and Open Source editor [github.com] so they can ... profit?.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean like GOOGLE ? (Score:1)
It's their right i don't doubt it but....
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I dont like it any more than you do.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Eh, there's a cost.
For example, Google has my child's school all in on Google Classroom and that at face value is great for the school. It has the not-so-coindicental side effect of the kids normalizing "give all my data and money to google and let them take care of it".
In another context, I was dealing with a company that had undergone training to modernize their infrastructure with docker and was asking all their software vendors to provide a Dockerfile for all the software they want. Without further bac
Youtube? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Youtube? (Score:5, Informative)
Halfway through the first video, "if you'd prefer to do text based modules..." and mention that they're available, presumably at the link in the vid.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't have the time or interest to sit through a video to learn something that I could learn in a fraction of the time with some simple text.
Why hello, Mr. Johnson! [samueljohnson.com] :)
Re:Youtube? (Score:4, Interesting)
While I agree with you that videos are a terrible way to learn, video tutorials are extremely popular with students.
Re: (Score:2)
And I honestly don't understand why. Not only is it usually non-trivial to figure out quickly whether the video even covers what you're trying to learn (not to mention that even if you know, it's fairly hard to scroll quickly to the part that actually interests you), how do you copy/paste the code snippets that you need and don't understand well enough to actually recreate them?
If new programmers can't do that anymore, security might become some sort of work where you actually have to do some work!
Re: (Score:3)
> And I honestly don't understand why
Ask yourself why students bother recording lectures? It's not a deep analysis.
Having a tutorial, which is replayable at any time in any measure, has utility. You don't need to keep a book with you or notes or remember every detail. It's also comforting (and confidence inspiring) to see how action translates into result in a short time.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, and we advanced to the point where we no longer have to type commands that you mistype at least thrice before you finally figure out which of the ', , ` or whatever other tick is the right one.
Anyone who ever had to use sed knows EXACTLY what I mean.
Re: (Score:2)
Depends on the video. I teach integration by parts simply by showing this video (in german, use subtitles if required):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
and following up with some exercises. I have yet to see a student who didn't get it after seeing the video twice (and they all remember the formula, because the song is really catchy!).
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose it depends on the student. I know that _this_ student can't stand video based instruction.
I'm a fast reader with a limited amount of time available and speech is one of the slowest ways to transmit information. Please just give me the text to read!
Re: Youtube? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Hopefully not running as root (Score:2)
Hopefully this will set better examples than the multi-part series by a guy who thinks that running X windows as root is a good idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sudo commonly has a timeout set in the sudoers file.
I believe Ubuntu & derivatives set it to around 5 minutes.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you mean run the service as root or log in as root?
Logging into X as root, running his web browser as root, running all the command line tools as root, running python as root. Doing everything as root. It was setting a very poor example for those learning from his videos.
Engineer Man [youtube.com] with quarter of a million subscribers and several million views. This video [youtube.com] specifically is the one I encountered and another one with over 3 million views where he uses root to scam a Craigslist scammer [youtube.com]
I sent him a comment warning against it about a year ago and it looks like
Typescript instead (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, we don't need more of the world learning or using Microsoft's garbage.
Which Microsoft department does that come from? (Score:2)
The Ministry of Silly Programming Languages, of course.
re (Score:1)