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Microsoft

Spain and GitHub Are Blocking an App That Helped Protesters Organize (vice.com) 90

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: People are rioting in the streets of Barcelona. For the last month, hundreds of thousands of people have joined demonstrations in Spain to voice their objection to the jailing of Catalan separatist leaders and support Catalonian independence. As with almost all modern activist and public protest movements, activists are using social media and apps to communicate with and organize public actions. But this week, in a move that puts the Spanish government on par with censorship-heavy places like China and Russia, the country requested that Github block access to one of those apps, by revoking local access to its Github repository. Github, which is owned by Microsoft, complied with the order.

According to Spanish news outlet El Confidencial, last week the government ordered takedowns of websites and app made by Tsunami Democratic, an activist group organizing protests in the region. To try to keep access to the app download alive, Tsunami Democratic moved the .apk file to Github. But the government shut that down, too, blocking the site in Spain. Motherboard tested the download using a VPN, and the Github repo was blocked from Madrid. It's still accessible from the US. Currently, a version of Tsunami Democratic's website (but not its Github repo) is up.
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Spain and GitHub Are Blocking an App That Helped Protesters Organize More

Spain and GitHub Are Blocking an App That Helped Protesters Organize

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  • China and Hong Kong were a warning (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nocturrne ( 912399 ) on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:00AM (#59366358)

    Western politician criminals are learning from China. If we don't stand up and fight for our rights, they will soon be taken from us.

  • Did Github block it or not? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ethanms ( 319039 ) on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:04AM (#59366378)

    From TFA (summary):

    "Tsunami Democratic moved the .apk file to Github. But the government shut that down, too, blocking the site in Spain"

    Sounds like the government blocked Github?

    • FTFS:

      But this week, in a move that puts the Spanish government on par with censorship-heavy places like China and Russia, the country requested that Github block access to one of those apps, by revoking local access to its Github repository. Github, which is owned by Microsoft, complied with the order.

      So yes, the government blocked Github.

      • I agree.
        Barcelona has been trying to leave Microsoft behind for years. Now Microsoft has closed GitHub's door on Barcelona's fight for freedom from Moncloa.
        My paranoid Spidey sense is tingling. Considering Microsoft's tainted history, could this GitHub abuse foreshadow even more odious things to come for open source?

        --
        Under capitalism, man exploits man; while under socialism just the reverse is true.
        John Kenneth Galbraith

        • The one-world government is putting itself together quite deliberately as we all, very kindly, worry about it. It begs the question: Is this all bound to happen eventually or not?

          But don't worry, the one-world government will quickly fade, if it does make it to an established state-of-being. One can already see the tell-tale signs of corporations acting as countries do now (each corporation has it's own mottoes, credences and philosophies). So all that'll change is that, rather than countries having issu

  • It's sad to see my fears realized. Of course Microsoft has no business being allowed to acquire GitHub. It's a damned shame too, GitHub was a great resource, now it's toxic property.

    • I've been ignoring it... but I suppose I need to start planning to move. I guess self hosted GitLab will do eventually.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

      Other than Github's original owners not doing any business in Spain, do you have any reason to think they would not have complied? Do you have an irrational hatred of MS, or do you hate all multinationals?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Chromal ( 56550 )
        Microsoft's anti-competitive actions and harms perpetuated upon the free market in the software industry over the course of decades speak for themselves, and neither Gates nor Microsoft have been held to account for their harms. It seems only natural that they've graduated or transcended from operating systems and groupware and now expanded their game to helping the oppressors of liberal democratic and human rights movements. If Catalonians feels disenfranchised, then let them be free. They'll still be a vi

        • If Catalonians feels disenfranchised, then let them be free. They'll still be a vibrant part of the European Union, what's the issue here?

          That won't happen instantly or automatically. They'll have to go through the same accession process as any other country wanting to join the EU (as will Scotland if they ever decide to declare independence from the UK).

    • what are you talking about

      github always followed the law when a court said "take it down"

      all companies do

      • github always followed the law when a court said "take it down"

        According to the summary, the Spanish government "requested" that they take it down.

        Also, according to the summary, the Spanish government "ordered" Github to take it down.

        This is clearly a case of journalistic incompetence, but it isn't clear it was a "request" or a "demand", or maybe one after the other. Who knows?

        Vice.com needs to screen their writers for English language literacy.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Chromal ( 56550 )
        All companies comply with foreign demands? "GitHub is an American company..." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub) GitHub is under no obligation to comply with the oppressive foreign diktats. What's the higher EU legal authority have to say about the member state's request, anyway? Let's hear it from a US court, first.

      • The problem is, most Americans still want America to be a shining beacon of freedom.

        When in fact we have become a miserable corporate tyranny, on par with (but obviously different from) the old Soviet Union.

  • Github is a company, and is free to choose who they do business with.

    It's not like they are censoring the app - the term censorship is only used when a country does it. If they want to make the app available, the people of Spain are free to set up their own hosting servers. Github is not preventing them from doing that.

    You wouldn't want private companys to be forced into doing business with someone, would you? This is a perfectly legitimate business decision.

    Github can choose which apps to host, and which a

    • Re:Private company, it's OK (Score:5, Insightful)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:20AM (#59366450)
      It's a little more muddy than that. The Spanish government ordered a take down. It's not any different than the U.S. government ordering a website to take down a copy of a movie that's been declared as being in violation of the law.

      So this is a case of either the company complies with that law (which people may disagree with) or they themselves become law breakers and criminals in the country. If they don't have any actual presence in Spain they can always tell the government to go pound sand, because a website outside of a particular country's jurisdiction has no reason to abide by that country's laws. Of course the government can always demand that ISPs block access to that website in response.

      I don't think anyone would harp on YouTube overly much when they are forced (or rather choose to comply with the law) to take down a video uploaded by someone who lacked the permission to do so. Instead we argue about the government's copyright laws being bad or overly restrictive. I think that the real issue is that Spain has some unjust laws and if GitHub has any corporate presence in the country they do have some obligation to follow the laws of that country. There are people who similarly complain about multinational companies trying to dodge taxes in countries where they're located, so if they have to follow those laws should we expect them not to follow others?

      The reality is that it's messy. Arguments surrounding it are likely to be as well.

      • What law was being broken? Being requested to take down a site doesn't mean you are breaking the law, it means the government doesn't want the site up.

      • The government is not the law. Possibly they are breaking their own laws. Or the laws of the EU. To comply just like that is not the only legal option.

    • Github is a company, and is free to choose who they do business with.

      Not if they ever try to do the same thing against Hong Kong rioters [cnn.com]...

      Oh, under the western Standard of Double, those Hong Kong youngsters doing the exact same things [scmp.com] as

      People are rioting in the streets of Barcelona.

      should not be labeled rioters, they should be called freedom fighters [theverge.com].

      I have to apologize now or will be called a Chinese troll in no time.

    • can care about those choices

    • > (That's the argument, isn't it? Did I get it right?)

      No, it's not, in my opinion.

      > the term censorship is only used when a country does it

      The *first amendment* says the US government shall not infringe freedom of speech. The first amendment shouldn't be confused with censorship. They are related; they are not the same thing. The first amendment makes it *illegal* for the government to engage in censorship. A private company can legally engage in censorship. It's still censorship - its just legal.

    • No. It isn't OK. It might be legal, but it isn't OK.

  • Canna make up their minds? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Retired ICS ( 6159680 ) on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:06AM (#59366392)

    "the country requested that Github block access to one of those apps, by revoking local access to its Github repository. Github, which is owned by Microsoft, complied with the order."

    So in the very same sentence it is both a request and an order. So which is it, a request or an order?

    The referenced letter posted to Github appears to be a "request" and not a lawful "order", although it is accompanied by a "warrant" to collect information.

    I am not familiar with Spanish law, however, it looks to me like the police are doing a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" under colour of law and Microsoft (the spineless shits that they are) are "going along with it" even though no lawful process has been served.

    • Actually, the request comes from the "Audiencia Nacional" , a branch of the judicial that investigates major crimes against the state ( terrorism, drug dealing, etc) and acts as last appeal on cases against the state( Similar to the Supreme Court in USA)

      The order comes from a judge since they are investigating the organization for terrorism ( Which i think is a bit overreaching) but the thing is this is technically not the Goverment ( executive branch) but a judiciary order

      Seems the closure of the github si

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

        In Spain, the Judiciary isn't a part of the government?!

        • In Spanish media and common talk "Goverment" is just the executive branch ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Spain ) . The Judiciary is part of the state and the administration but not of the goverment. This might lead to misleading translations on the international media.

          Of course it is much more complicated but, in principal, the judiciary is an independent branch of the state. You gain access by passing an examination of your knowledge of the countries law and then the judiciary has its own se

    • Why would we expect an Indian company (Microsoft) to respect American values?

  • Can someone modify f-droid so it can pass apps phone-to-phone with no download?

    • Re: Time for a peer-to-peer package repository (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:39AM (#59366566) Homepage Journal

      Literally click the 'Nearby' button in the center of the taskbar in F-Droid.

      Microsoft is being complicit in violating the Catalonians' Right of Revolution, which is a human right in most progressive jurisdictions. (cf. New Hampshire Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article 10). This is very bad news for them and I feel sorry for the Github employees who haven't left yet. I would refuse to be complicit, in their shoes - some things aren't worth a paycheck. I've quit jobs over less egregious orders from management. You can't worry about your grocery bill if what you're being told to do is going to get people shot.

      • Didn't know that! Cool.

      • "Right of Revolution"? Um, no. I do not believe that you will find any national government that explicitly acknowledges this right.

        The US Bill of Rights certainly contains no such provision. The only thing remotely similar is in the Declaration of Independence: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government" That is not part of US law; it was the declaration of revolution against the British, a

  • No word on why the apk couldn't be downloaded from an app store in the first place? Did Google or Apple censor them first?

  • Github complied because it got an official request through the official channels. But there's something to note about how those channels can be abused:

    "Tsunami Democratic" are being investigated in Spain (not even formally accused) for being a terrorist organization despite:

    - "Tsunami Democratic" organization asks all users and followers to act peacefully, as you can see here and every time they speak: https://translate.google.es/tr... [google.es] . Obviously nobody has died in Spain due to their existence

    • "Peaceful". Yeah, sure. Burn trashcans, stop traffic, destroy roads...

      These people are a bunch of liars.

      • People != "Tsunami Democratic".

        If you read my post and the link I have shared, you can easily see that it has not been inspired by the censored app. If you read the whole telegram channel, you'll see that the there's no call to violence ever. But yeah, you need to check the info by yourself, don't let anybody, even me, digest and regurgitate it for you. Go straight to the source

        No roads have been destroyed.

        Yes, trashcans have been burnt. Yes, traffic has been stopped. Is that the threshold to consider someb

        • Adif denounced sabotage against the railway system... Just saying...

          • Your point being...?

            • "No roads have been destroyed."

              Might be a little misleading

              • And how are they equal? And how does that make anybody a terrorist? And how does it relate to Tsunami Democratic and Github?

                Again, read the info by yourself. Telegram posts are accessible to everybody.

                Man, discussing with somebody who refuses to read the publicly available info is exhausting...

  • But for good or for ill I favor Catalonian independence.

    When I see Spanish police beating peaceful protesters on my TV I sympathize with the the independence movement.

    And they have a really cool anthem:

    A Sound Of Thunder - Els Segadors (The Reapers) (Live Pro Shot) [youtube.com]

    Catalunya triomfant
    our land will be bountiful again
    so destroy the enemy
    their conceit has sentenced them to death.

    Pretty catchy tune.

    Bon cop de falç!

    • First they tried to do a referendum that would be acceptable to Spain, but Spain said no.
      Then they organize their own referendum, and Spain sends the police to try to block the vote.

      I don't see what other option the Catalan people now have but to revolt. They tried all the peaceful ways to express their democratic opinion.

      The problem is the Spanish constitution itself, which is anti-democratic by saying that any region wanting to get out of Spain as to the the approval from the rest of the country. Spain co

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by radja ( 58949 )

      there's a problem with the catalonian indepence though: to gain indepence, the spanish constitution needs to be changed. I'm pretty sure there are democratic ways to do that in Spain (I'm not spanish), but a referendum in Catalunya is not it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Teun ( 17872 )
        It's a couple of centuries ago (1581) when The Netherlands was also under the reign of the Spanish king.
        Because, among others, the mainly protestant Dutch were pissed off by their Roman Catholic overlords they wrote a declaration of independence from Spain and ended up in an 80-year war of independence.
        The result was freedom for the Dutch.

        Nearly 200 years later this document became an example for the US Declaration of Independence.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Talla ( 95956 )

        there's a problem with the catalonian indepence though: to gain indepence, the spanish constitution needs to be changed. I'm pretty sure there are democratic ways to do that in Spain (I'm not spanish), but a referendum in Catalunya is not it.

        The oppressor always makes it impossible for the oppressed to gain independence legally, nothing new here. The Catalonians have tried to obtain it for 500 years. The civilized way is to let the minority of Catalonians have a referendum over whether they want independence, not asking the majority of fascists decendants in Madrid if they want to continue ruling over the Catalonians.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pjt33 ( 739471 )

        It's possible to change the Spanish Constitution, but certain parts of it are really difficult, requiring Parliament to approve the change, then general elections and the new Parliament to still approve the change, and then a national referendum.

  • Here the government ordered (gently requested) the takedown and MS complied. While I, as an American, find that distasteful - it's Spain's law, they're a sovereign country and MS must abide by the rules there. (note a VPN should be able to get around this for the time being until that's blocked)
    In Blizzard's case they reacted purely on the APPEARANCE of looking bad to China, unless there was some secret order. Most likely Tencent had a cow and ordered the award be stripped and the reporters fired (and p

  • Slashdotters please wake up and smell the coffee (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xanthos ( 73578 ) <[xanthos] [at] [toke.com]> on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:13PM (#59366734)
    First and foremost I wish Slashdot was still about technology and not social issues because this is not a technology story. For proof, how many of you would be upset if a hosting company complied with a legal order to remove a pedo or jihadist app from its repositories? Anybody? And why is nobody complaining that this app isn't out on Google Play? I have zero relationship with github and could care less what happens to the company, but I am sick and tired of the whining and moral outrage that always seems to accompany somebody getting kicked off (or not getting kicked off) a free to use service.

    • Why are you conflating demonstrators with pedophiles and jihadists? It is a technology story because governments are trying to stop the spread of software that is used in anti-government protests, and corporations are assisting. Eventually corporate owned services will be the ONLY services allowed and available on the Internet. It is only a matter of time.

    • Technology doesn't exist in a vacuum.

    • In the day of the Internet, technology and politics are inextricably intertwined. In this story, this is true in two ways:

      - The Internet crosses national boundaries as if they didn't exist. Governments - even supposedly democratic governments - want to control the narrative within their borders. This manifests as censorship. Networking in the Internet provides routes around censorship, just as it does any other obstacle. It takes a huge effort (China) to prevent this. It's a interesting issue.

      - The apps use

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Although this doesn't probably apply to these protests: peaceful demonstrations generally do not work and are ignored. Look at all the silly "climate change" protests that go on. They are regularly ignored by people who actually matter. It is mostly just something for people to act passionate about. Then there are real protests, like the protests going on in Taiwan. Those people actually care, and the only way they see to not be ignored is through destructive violence. If you get threatened and desperate en

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Talla ( 95956 )

          I am not critising violence against a real tyranny and when there is no other way. I am critising cool violence, exerted by a few rich kids looking for a quick rush by damaging their city and innocent citizens without knowing too well what they are doing, being the last evolution of what doesn't really make much sense since quite a few years ago. And actually I am not even truly criticising it, I am honestly asking to one of these kids, one from inside, already in that battlefield, ideally in any of the two references which I am including in my previous post or similar ones.

          This isn't some small rich kids quarrel, there are very real things at stake and protests with up to a million people. It has been going on for 500 years. The last time Catalonia elected a president he was tortured and killed by the fascist Franco regime, which many of the current Spanish politicians descend from.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      The same way a Yugoslavia stopped people from trying to protest and become their own nation.
      East Germany on people protesting for democracy and freedom.
      Ceausescu in Romania trying to stop protests.
      The people of Hong Kong and Taiwan. Tibet.
      Now the full power of the new EU censorship/police "laws" and Spain can be seen globally.

      The real trick is to act like MI5/6, GCHQ, SAS in Ireland.
      Let people "protest" all they want.
      ID everyone and ... nothing ... the protests slowly change...for some reason
    • The Catalonia is culturally different from Madrid. They also backed the losing side in the last Spanish civil war. They were fairly heavily repressed and their language disallowed in most government institutions for much of the last 70 years. In spite of this their economy was much stronger than the rest of Spain and immigration to their biggest city Barcelona has now made them a minority in their own region. The Catalonians still want independence but it is almost impossible. It would take shocking stu

  • Companies are obliged to comply with the lawful orders of government and law enforcement in the countries in which they operate - this means that at times an order will be at odds with individuals who have a problem with the government, but this does not change the compliance obligations for the companies involved. If these people had succeeded in overthrowing the government and became the new administration, then, of course, the companies involved would have to follow their rules, too. A company is also fr

  • going full Communist China on the freedom to protest.
    How very EU nation.
  • Vice article is wrong or at least unclear and Slashdot summary is worse. I wasn't the executive goverment who issued the takedown order for the website, it was a judge. There is separation of powers in Spain, you know Goverment (Executive powers), Legistative (Parliament) and Judicial Authority (Poder Judicial in spanish). It isn't perfect, sure :-) , show me a country on Earth it is. I don't know what did the app nor why it's been banned, but I'm sure protesters can use other means like Whatsapp or Teleg

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