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Study Finds High Demand for Go and AR/VR Programmers, While Python Remains Favorite Language (hired.com) 75

Posted by EditorDavid from the demand-and-supply dept.
The tech jobs marketplace at Hired.com crunched their data on more than 400,000 interview requests and job offers over the last year to produce their annual "State of Software Engineers" report. Among its surprising insights: software engineers with more than 10 years of experience get 20% fewere interview requests than engineers with 4 to 10 years of experience.

Other insights: Demand for AR/VR talent is up by 1400%, mirroring blockchain's 517% demand growth last year... In large U.S. tech hubs AR/VR engineer salaries range from $135k - $150k... 46% of software engineers rank AR/VR as one of the top 3 technologies they'd like to learn in 2020... If you work in AR/VR, you may want to move to San Francisco, where they pay $150k/year on average.
The next-highest growth in demand came for "gaming engineers" and "computer vision engineers" -- with both positions seeing a 146% increase in demand over 2018. The next-highest demand growth was for "search engineers" (increasing 137%) and for "machine learning engineers" (increasing 89%). Demand for "blockchain engineers" increased by just 9%.

But they also report that demand for frontend and backend engineers "grew steadily by 17%, which shows that all companies -- not just Silicon Valley tech giants -- are evolving into being tech companies..." The worldwide process of digital transformation, while something of a buzzword, reflects a critical truth: every company is now a technology company. Whether the company is Bank of America, Alaska Airlines, Sainsbury's, or Tesla, investment in top software engineering talent isn't a future ambition, it's a matter of survival.
And the #1 most-desired coding skill was Go (for the second year in a row), "garnering an average of 9.2 interview requests for every Go-skilled candidate..." But there may be a larger trend. All told, the number of interview requests across all languages remained nearly constant year-over-year, with only minor fluctuations in average requests, and zero change in how each language ranked against others. This could suggest that supply for these skills has not yet caught up with demand...

According to Robert Half, 67% of IT managers plan to expand their teams in areas such as security, cloud computing and business intelligence, but 89% reported challenges in recruiting that talent. Those challenges in hiring are even greater for roles related to machine learning, artificial intelligence, and blockchain.
Their analysis concludes the most in-demand programming languages are Go, Scala, Ruby, TypeScript, Kotlin, Objective C, JavaScript, Swift, PHP, Java, HTML, and then Python -- though Python, JavaScript, and Java are engineers' favorite coding languages, "largely because of their useful and well-maintained libraries and packages..."

"Ruby, PHP and Objective C are ranked the least favorite (and least fun) languages for software engineers."
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Study Finds High Demand for Go and AR/VR Programmers, While Python Remains Favorite Language More

Study Finds High Demand for Go and AR/VR Programmers, While Python Remains Favorite Language

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  • Move to San Francisco (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mononymous ( 6156676 ) on Saturday March 14, 2020 @08:58PM (#59831384)

    If you work in AR/VR, you may want to move to San Francisco, where they pay $150k/year on average.

    Is that enough of a salary to afford living in your car in San Francisco?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Pass all the exams, have loans and end up living the RV and car lifestyle in CA.

    • Re:Move to San Francisco (Score:4, Funny)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Saturday March 14, 2020 @11:05PM (#59831540) Journal
      It is, but you might not be able to afford a place to park your car.

    • If you work in AR/VR, you may want to move to San Francisco, where they pay $150k/year on average.

      Is that enough of a salary to afford living in your car in San Francisco?

      $100K-$135K in a place where a 20 minute commute is average, and you can buy a 3 bedroom house on around a half acre, for less than $250K seems to be a much better choice for many people.

      Not that there is anything wrong with paying 3K a month plus parking fees for an 2 bedroom apartment.

      • No way you're gonna get a decent 2 bedroom apartment in SF for $3k/mo.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        $100K-$135K in a place where a 20 minute commute is average, and you can buy a 3 bedroom house on around a half acre, for less than $250K seems to be a much better choice for many people.

        Not really. I lived in a place that had maybe 0.3 acres. Spent so much time cutting the %(*#@&) grass. Yes, you could probably get a ride on mower for that but it was still an annoyance. And raking leaves in the fall was just another chore.

        Land is nice to own, but maintenance of that much land may be more than what some

    • Funny, isn't it: salaries in SF / Silicon Valley haven't budged in 15+ years. While cost is living tripled. It's almost like there's been active collusion to suppress wages.

      Good thing the Sandhill Road money cartel that owns everything in Silicon Valley is run by good, moral, virtuous Progressives. They would never take illegal collusive action to drive down worker wages - no way! That's UNPOSSIBLE!!

      • Instead of taking aim at wage suppression ask why very little if any new housing units have been built. If you increase everyoneâ(TM)s wages without increasing the number if housing units the cost of housing will increase according to the increase in wages .. think about it .. people will have mire money to pay for rent so the landlords will increase the price of rent. The supply of housing needs to increase, not wages.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      But if you get promoted you move up to a comfy car.

  • Golang (Score:5, Funny)

    by Spazmania ( 174582 ) on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:18PM (#59831392) Homepage

    There's high *demand* for Go because one knucklehead starts loving it and then everyone else wants off the project.

  • come again? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Snotnose ( 212196 ) on Saturday March 14, 2020 @09:22PM (#59831400)

    software engineers with more than 10 years of experience get 20% fewere interview requests

    This is news? Try having 30 years experience and looking for a job when your company shuts it's doors. At least I can fucking spell (hint: I use a spell checker, which I first ran across in the early 80s)

    Age discrimination is a thing in this industry. Nobody wants to interview someone with enough experience to point out why they suck at making software.

    • Would certainly explain why all this fake-ass 'AI' crap they keep trotting out is so shitty.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by GS1 ( 5266363 )

      Try having 30 years experience and looking for a job when your company shuts it's doors. At least I can fucking spell (hint: I use a spell checker, which I first ran across in the early 80s)

      Did you mean its doors ?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Nobody wants to interview someone with enough experience to point out why they suck at making software.

      Skepticism and critiques of fads and bullshit are indeed not very welcomed by a good many.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        Addendum: The main goal of many is to fill their resumes with as many buzzwords as possible. Quality and maintainability of code is secondary to this. They avoid experienced workers because they don't want logic ruining their resume bingo.

        • Quality and maintainability of code is superfluous. The goal is that your startup is bought up by one of the big players, why would I give a fuck whether the code is maintainable in such a scenario?

    • Nobody wants to interview someone with enough experience to point out why they suck at making software.

      This has nothing to do with age, experience, or discrimination. It has to do with being an asshat who "points out" that people suck.

      • People can't handle the truth these days. Que Jack Nicholson Meme.

      • In general, they only accept that kind of insight from highly paid consultants hired by someone high enough up the corporate food chain to be able to accept the consultant's recommendation to abandon projects.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by swilver ( 617741 )

      Age discrimination is a thing in this industry.

      In your country. But that's no surprise if you allow corporations to determine your laws.

      • This is the same demographic that cries all day long about never needing a Union. You just need strong bootstraps and rock-star programmers can just company hop for 50 years. We don't need any protection of anything.

      • Which country do SW devs not have age discrimination?

        My guess is you don't realize you're swimming in it.

    • Re:come again? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Sunday March 15, 2020 @11:23AM (#59832588) Journal

      Age discrimination is a thing in this industry. Nobody wants to interview someone with enough experience to point out why they suck at making software.

      It took me a while to figure out how to deal with this problem. I could pass technical interviews, but I looked down on the programmers at all the companies I interviewed at because they were so ignorant. Of course, they returned my dislike with dislike. I finally got around the problem like this:

      Before I went to the interview, I tried to think of something I liked about the company. When I interviewed with each person, I tried to find something I respected about that person. They got a job as a programmer, they must have some potential at least. Once I started looking for the good in people, it made interviewing a LOT easier.

      • You're a programmer, we don't pay you do see the good in people dammit! Do I need to bring out the whip again

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by MrKaos ( 858439 )

        Age discrimination is a thing in this industry. Nobody wants to interview someone with enough experience to point out why they suck at making software.

        It took me a while to figure out how to deal with this problem. I could pass technical interviews, but I looked down on the programmers at all the companies I interviewed at because they were so ignorant. Of course, they returned my dislike with dislike.

        Yeah, people pick up an nuances like that and expect people will just ignore how they feel.

        I finally got around the problem like this: Before I went to the interview, I tried to think of something I liked about the company. When I interviewed with each person, I tried to find something I respected about that person. They got a job as a programmer, they must have some potential at least. Once I started looking for the good in people, it made interviewing a LOT easier.

        Nice social intelligence there, how is it working out? Did you find that the mindset help during the role?

        • Nice social intelligence there, how is it working out? Did you find that the mindset help during the role?

          It's helped a lot. I will say that seeing potential in people is one thing, helping them reach it is difficult. They will get upset along the way. Also, I just want to program, but working with other people is part of the job. So you might as well own it. Then you can get back to just programming.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by MrKaos ( 858439 )

            Nice social intelligence there, how is it working out? Did you find that the mindset help during the role?

            It's helped a lot. I will say that seeing potential in people is one thing, helping them reach it is difficult.

            Yeah, they've got to be bugging me before I help otherwise they have no investment in my efforts, so I avoid being too accessible.

    • Then come to Europe, as an english speaker you have no problem getting a job in UK, Scandinavia or Netherlands, and plenty of other companies have a "english only" teams, too.

      I really wonder why you accept that they stomp on you like that.

  • Although I've been doing all Swift for quite a while, and I think it is an easier language to work in, I still like Objective C quite a lot.

    When I starting doing Objective-C, I had done a lot of Java, C, C++ for work and a lot of Scheme more ion the past.

    To me Objective C was a really nice bend of lots of language features, that I would way nicer to make use of than C++ especially.

    Since then Objective-C has really improved, in large part because it's kind of chained to Swift by Apple, so was forced to adop

    • I would say "because Objective-C is ugly as sin?"

      But I use C++, so I feel like I should recuse myself from judging other languages' aesthetics.

      • I would say "because Objective-C is ugly as sin?"

        That's the thing, I never found Objective-C ugly, and I never found C++ pretty .. I tried really hard to deeply understand C++, but as much as I tried and as much as I appreciated what they have built (The Design and Evolution of C++ is a really interesting book if anyone cares to know more), I just never enjoyed it or really liked it.

        With Objective-C at first it felt strange, but after a lot of experience some of the syntax that seemed clunky ending up feeli

        • I think you misunderstand my gist. I'm an expert in C++ and actually enjoy using it (much more so now post C++ 11), but even I think it's pretty hideous to look at. So, the notion was more "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

          I'll admit my own experience with Objective-C has been pretty minimal - just enough to glue together C++ engine code with Cocoa APIs, whenever I'm working on a Mac port of a game. I found the syntax pretty jarring at first, and it took a little while before I was comforta

    • It's most likely because it's a MacOS language. And MacOS still has a very small user base, which means that whatever you program in Objective C... Is only for MacOS, whereas for most other languages can be ported to other OSes, making the other languages many times more useful. Also, the top 2 demands are AR/VR and gaming. Last I knew, MacOS isn't noted for those. Maybe Swift for iOS, but not MacOS.

      • It's most likely because it's a MacOS language.

        That's not really the case though, for quite a long time it was the only development language for the iPhone, which means there are way more developers that have worked with it than if it really was just for the Mac... like millions more. In 2018 Apple announced there were 20 million registered IOS developers.

        Is only for MacOS, whereas for most other languages can be ported to other OSes,

        Objective-C is technically ported to all other platforms via GnuStep [gnustep.org], and

  • For example, the graph showing 'Top Programming Languages by Years of Experience' for '10+ Years' includes some languages (eg TypeScript, Kotlin) that haven't even been around that long. (Of course many job postings ask for "today's date - language release" + 3 years experience, so maybe that does make sense.)

    And, if you're doing AR/VR work, you're probably doing it in C/C++.

    Lastly, when the only four markets in your survey are the Bay Area, Toronto, NY and London, it's implied that "10+ years experience"

    • Yeah, the numbers are all intentionally misleading.

      "1400% growth." So what, now there are 15 AR/VR programmers? It's just fancy extrapolation [xkcd.com].

      "9.2 interview requests for every Go-skilled candidate." So....no one knows that language? Misleading.

    • That's how this game is being played. They ask for impossible skills, you lie on your resume. Both parties know that the other side is talking out of their ass and we commonly accept that as normal.

      • You don't even have to lie. Just put Kotlin on your resume, and if they ask how many years you have, say "ALL OF THEM."

    • Kotlin is most certainly ten years old and TypeScript is close enough.

      And, if you're doing AR/VR work, you're probably doing it in C/C++.
      You never programmed a game engine, did you?

      • Kotlin is most certainly ten years old and TypeScript is close enough.

        The only way you'd have 10 years of Kotlin experience is if you worked at JetBrains a decade ago writing the language.

        And, if you're doing AR/VR work, you're probably doing it in C/C++.
        You never programmed a game engine, did you?

        No, but the ones I'm familiar with all have C++ cores. So do most of the serious AR/VR apps I'm aware of. Why? Is there some next great programming language to rule the world on the OP list that everyone is now using to write AR/VR apps that I'm not aware of? Remember, we're discussing core programming languages, not asset management and visual design.

        • I stand corrected, for some reason I thought I knew Kotlin since ages ... seems the first official release was 2016.

  • So percentage growth is pretty meaningless. What matters more is percentage of devs doing a specific thing. Demand for "scala" devs supposedly went up 100% but that could just mean there's demand for 2 of them over the one last year. its really irrelevant to bake a cake that way. The number of actual professional scala devs is somewhere around 1-2% of all devs and will not likely change.

    But I do have a serious problem with this statement:
    "... not just Silicon Valley tech giants -- are evolving into b

    • I can attest to this. In my company they've spent years and millions of dollars internally developing a program for my group to use. It currently has many unavailable or broken features, cant communicate with our legacy database program without multiple manual steps, and just about every process we do has to involve some sort of workaround or manual verification. In the meantime they've also severely slashed the full time staff dedicated to that program (and also now tasked them with supporting a similar

  • Because this smells a lot like the usual startup bubble/bust. A new startup chasing the latest sillicon pipe dream, of course using the latest, edgiest technology for the job (whether useful or not, but that's what all the cool kids do today), trying to hire whoever claims to know that edgy new tech. That's been the cylcle for the past two decades, to be hoenst.

    How many times have we seen this, and why the fuck do we still take it serious?

    • Re:Go - among the least maintainable languages (Score:5, Interesting)

      by swilver ( 617741 ) on Sunday March 15, 2020 @08:32AM (#59832238)

      Author of the 2nd article thinks that an int doesn't take up 4 bytes on a 64-bit machine. I stopped reading there.

      • Oh boy :-)

        But my point was that while Go has many things to recommend it, it is terrible from a mantainability perspective, in a team environment. The "duck typing" means that if you are reading someone else's code and trying to figure out the kind of object that a method returns, you have to find all the methods that the returned thing has - a time-consuming task. And the fact that Go file names don't correspond to what is in them makes it hard to find things as well. And there are language features tha

        • And the goroutine mechanism is convenient but when I looked at it, I didn't feel it really solved the challenges with multithreading, which have to do with coordinating changes to values, but maybe I did not look closely enough.

          The preferred way of dealing with communication between threads in Go is through message queues (channels). The Go threading model is really designed around server programming, where there isn't a lot of shared memory between the threads, and message queues are a convenient and sufficient way of handling that situation.

          • That's right - I had forgot about that. (I have not programmed in Go in a few years.) It is a solid approach. Still, sometimes one needs to synchronize on a set of data, to make changes to multiple data items atomically. With queues you are basically sending the data around by value. It is a powerful approach - it was at the core of VAX VMS - but one still sometimes needs to do a test-and-set, or a synchronized (atomic) write to multiple data items. I am not sure how one does that in Go.
            • One approach is to have a thread that "owns" the data, and if you want to set it, you need to send some kind of message to that thread. Kind of like a printer queue but for RAM.

              • Yes - a monitor, accessed via a queue. And if another threat wants to read the data, it needs to subscribe to a queue that publishes changes to the data.

                That means that one cannot synchronously read such data, so if one wants to read data that is owned by two different monitors, what would one do?

                I think the queue model is powerful, but I think that one needs both queues and test-and-set. Does Go not have any kind of synchronization system besides queues? That seems like an omission.

                • Yes - a monitor, accessed via a queue. And if another threat wants to read the data, it needs to subscribe to a queue that publishes changes to the data.

                  If you want to use this kind of setup, then a single thread should "own" the data, and that thread will accept "write" messages and publish changes. if you want to do a test-and-set, then create a test-and set message, and the "owner" thread will respond appropriately.

                  • I am just puzzling over the situation in which two things need to happen together - the equivalent of a transaction involving more than one table. But perhaps that is an edge case that can be designed around.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by MrKaos ( 858439 )

            The preferred way of dealing with communication between threads in Go is through message queues (channels). The Go threading model is really designed around server programming, where there isn't a lot of shared memory between the threads, and message queues are a convenient and sufficient way of handling that situation.

            Are you referring to a messaging software like Kafka or is message queues a built in feature of Go?

            • They're built in to the language, and they are called channels if you want to look them up.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                Thanks. Unless I'm missing something, it seems you need something like libchan to do messaging channels over a network as it is not built into the language.

      • I would say it depends on the language.

        In Java an int is always 32 bit ... no idea about Go.

        And in C/C++ it depends on the compiler, there is no universal int size across platforms, regardless of register size of the CPU.

    • Ah, and I thought we are still talking about playing Go with AR glasses in an VR environment.

  • The company has been an innovator in SDC for ages, in the frontier of mass production of top-notch AI for assisted driving.

    Tesla IS a tech company.

  • Python is top programming language now! So many modern popular applications made with it help. That's why Python developers are in demand nowadays. By the way if you need to create website or application or something else with Python I can recommend these professional services https://mangosoft.tech/python-... [mangosoft.tech] as you can see they use all modern technologies and can provide wide range of options for you.

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