New FreeBSD Code of Conduct (freebsd.org) 150
An anonymous reader writes: FreeBSD has has adopted a new LLVM-derived code of conduct. The code of conduct requires users to: be friendly and patient,
be welcoming,
be considerate,
be respectful,
be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others,
when we disagree, try to understand why.
This isn't an exhaustive list of things that you can't do. Rather, take it in the spirit in which it's intended - a guide to make it easier to communicate and participate in the community. This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the FreeBSD project. This includes online chat, mailing lists, bug trackers, FreeBSD events such as the developer meetings and socials, and any other forums created by the project that the community uses for communication. It applies to all of your communication and conduct in these spaces, including emails, chats, things you say, slides, videos, posters, signs, or even t-shirts you display in these spaces. In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may, in rare cases, affect a person's ability to participate within them, when the conduct amounts to an egregious violation of this code.
be welcoming,
be considerate,
be respectful,
be careful in the words that you choose and be kind to others,
when we disagree, try to understand why.
This isn't an exhaustive list of things that you can't do. Rather, take it in the spirit in which it's intended - a guide to make it easier to communicate and participate in the community. This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the FreeBSD project. This includes online chat, mailing lists, bug trackers, FreeBSD events such as the developer meetings and socials, and any other forums created by the project that the community uses for communication. It applies to all of your communication and conduct in these spaces, including emails, chats, things you say, slides, videos, posters, signs, or even t-shirts you display in these spaces. In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may, in rare cases, affect a person's ability to participate within them, when the conduct amounts to an egregious violation of this code.
Requires users? (Score:1, Insightful)
Nice editing. These are simply rules for the community forums. It doesn't require users of the operating system to do the square root of jack shit.
Nice phrasing to dog-whistle the anti-code-of-conduct crowd though.
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Re:Requires users? (Score:5, Insightful)
Eh, the way these are worded is pretty good. The only code of conduct any tech group should have is "don't be rude", but that's basically what this is in too many words.
How it's enforced is always the real concern. Such things are also enforced unevenly to force all non-progressives off a project. But that's not really a problem with a "don't be rude" code of conduct, that's just a failure to keep a tech project focused on tech, and should be addressed as such.
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Such things are also enforced evenly to force all rude people off a project.
FTFY
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How it's enforced is always the real concern.
Bam, this exactly. The bottom line is either money, or kindness, but can't be both. I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever met a kind businessman. In fact, I think that today's business world is represented by a a bull [google.com]. Until we get past this fact, all attempts to compel people to act hamanely, are trumpt.
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I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever met a kind businessman.
Not sure how you would define the term "businessman", so I'll settle on advising you to get out more. You seem to have a truly restricted worldview.
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I hope you're right. I guess when I say "businessmen", I'm referring to those that, well... run business. As far as I know, this is all done on Wall Street, where the stock market is? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm wrong.
In my way of thinking, two words sum up the mentality that runs Wall Street:
Martin Shkreli
He's in prison, but still making more money than your entire family and my entire family put together, all the while laughing at you and I paying for his room and board (taxes). I
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s far as I know, this is all done on Wall Street, where the stock market is? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm wrong.
Holy fuck you're wrong! Here's the first bit of googling I could do to grab you a source:
But while Wall Street gets the headlines, less than 1 percent of the 27 million businesses in the U.S. are publicly traded on the major exchanges.....private firms accounted for 86.4 percent of U.S. firms with 500 or more employees, according to 2010 estimates....The U.S. government says small businesses, which it defines as those with fewer than 500 employees, drive 46 percent of private nonfarm GDP, based on data from [forbes.com]
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No, "don't be rude" is much easier then "being friendly" Friendly requires an action. I can not be rude by just ignoring people I don't want to talk too.
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and if the person thinks it is rude that you refuse to talk to them ?
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Here's a tip on either "being friendly" or "not being rude": don't start a reply to someone with the word "no" or "actually". Just sayin.
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Can we keep the emotions and social warriors out of the tech environment?
It does not seem so, from the evidence. A generational shift has happened. It's a matter of coping now. I'm certainly open to counter-examples (ones that aren't exclusively contributors over 35) that could be used as a model.
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This too shall pass. The Zoomers thus far seem to be vigorously rejecting all this snowflake nonsense.
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Rude has ALWAYS been a subjective term. It also depends on the context and who's saying it. I have a friend who I call 'dummy' in casual conversation. It would be obnoxious of me to call most people that, even though I can clearly use it as a term of endearment. Culturally, asking about someone's income is pretty rude in North America. It's less rude in other cultures. Context is everything.
Problems arise in the miscommunication of where our boundaries are, that's all. If we can be adults about it, it doesn
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Even the progressives know what is rude
I almost always stop reading a persons comments as soon as they say something like this.
Rude. But also stupid and pointless. Combined, what more do you need to know?
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I don't need to go on a mission to dig for dirt. Compared to a lot of the other CoC's I'm seeing that clearly favour certain groups of people and their grievances I think if the excerpt here is to be relied upon then I think it's good.
It's not a hard concept to grasp. A poorly written CoC that's partisan toward specific groups based on protected characteristics can be catastrophic
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For chrissakes, you lunatic. It's basically the Sermon on the Mount.
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Ethics are applicable everywhere.
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http://www.agnt.org/ethics-stu... [agnt.org]
https://www.goodreads.com/book... [goodreads.com]
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"Love thy neighbor" is religious mumbo jumbo?
Re:Requires users? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Requires users? (Score:2)
Indeed. Theo's gonna love this...
Be competent! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Be competent! (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh bullshit. Even when you take someone to task, you can do it without going Full Torvalds. I have had to reprimand staff, and fire them. And never once have I raised my voice, called them names, sworn at them, or done anything. You can express irritation and disappointment without being an abusive jerk and bully.
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Nothing in there says you have to engage with them, give them your benefit at first, and once they start coming back with minor question after question expecting it all spoon-fed to them, stop replying.
Its really easy and simple. You can direct them elsewhere as you go, but nothing is forcing you to reply even in the first instance.
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But I also know of certain people who will just keep coming back even when you are curt with them. Was more of a problem when I was younger and those people were "peers" Yeah easier if you can just fire them. But you can't really do that in an open source project.
The solution to that is to filter them out technologically. That is an exceptionally harsh thing to do, but you never violated this type of CoC that way. And this will have to be done.
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Oh bullshit.
I mean, that's an interesting way to start a comment making the statement you ultimately made.
I pretty well agree with you, but it's an odd way to start off your argument that undermines your point a bit.
Re:Be competent! (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree, it’s the finest and possibly most widely applicable executive summary I’ve ever seen.
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Only because you agree with the person who used the phrase. The funny part about declaring bullshit is that people who already agree with you will be happy, but anyone who disagrees with that assessment is just going to get more angry. It's not exactly going to win hearts and minds.
When it comes to debate, we have a tendency to indulge in 'preaching to the choir', using ways of speaking that make you and the people who already agree with you energized and happier, but drive those who disagree further away.
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Oh bullshit.
I pretty well agree with you, but it's an odd way to start off your argument that undermines your point a bit.
Could've said "Well then, bullshit I say." instead (with extra awesomeness when heard with a British accent in your head*).
* now don't go all British-vs-non British argumentative on me
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Instead you come here to vent all that steam? Niiiice. Doesn't make you wrong, though. :)
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IMO Torvalds has/had the right level. People would always say he could be an ass but the results didn't lie. He got shit done. Linux wouldn't be where it is if he was nice about it and I think project leads need to be assholes from time to time. If you cant handle it then go work on something less important.
I use the past tense because it seems he's gone a little soft in his later years. It bodes poor for the long term health of the kernel but I have a lot of reasons to fear for the survival of Linux now a
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Linus only gets a pass because he did his thing first, if he was a new coder who appeared today and joined, say, the Rust community. He'd be demonised, reported to the police, hate-mobbed on twitter and banned already.
The results don't lie, getting stuff done is much more important than anyone realises, but the SJW "community leaders" don't want you to achieve that, not when they get off on keeping you down. The only success they approve of is the one that promotes them and their power.
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Oh bullshit. Even when you take someone to task, you can do it without going Full Torvalds. I have had to reprimand staff, and fire them. And never once have I raised my voice, called them names, sworn at them, or done anything. You can express irritation and disappointment without being an abusive jerk and bully.
Right... but correctly applied "Half Torvalds" or "Three Quarters Torvalds" is mighty useful in systems engineering.
In fact... you really cannot have a career without it. When you cannot prove to someone they are wrong because they are too stupid to understand the issues... application of the "Torvald's Maneuver" is very effective.
But don't go full Torvalds.... Everybody knows you never go full Torvalds.
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Actually, you can be exceptionally abusive and a complete jerk without ever being impolite. On the other hand, trying to enforce "friendly" is impossible because that requires respect and respect has to be earned.
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Remember that offence is taken, never given. You can be as nice and fair as you think you are while reprimanding someone, and that person can still complain that you are being a jerk because it hurts his/her feelings.
This is the problem with these CoC: they are asymmetric. You are not allowed to be a jerk when you are on the emitting part, but you are totally allowed to be one when you're on the receiving part.
Bonus point: who's more likely to be on the emitting/receiving end among those that produce/consum
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How much time should anyone spend taking others to task? That was really his point, wasn't it?
If you expect experts in the field to be nice to you, the least you can do is rise to their level every once and awhile, or get out if you can't.
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The competent are under no obligation to respond to the incompetent. It's possible to just ignore the fools, without being actively rude to them. It's also good to remember that sometimes all of us are the fools; none of us are competent across all domains.
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True, and you can get fired for being rude!
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The competent are under no obligation to respond to the incompetent. It's possible to just ignore the fools, without being actively rude to them. It's also good to remember that sometimes all of us are the fools; none of us are competent across all domains.
Actually, ignoring fools is exceptionally rude and harsh, it is the ultimate expression of disdain. But the beauty of it is, it does not violated brain-damaged CoCs like this one! It just requires a bit of discipline and you can freeze out all the morons that you ordinarily would at least have given a hint as to how they could solve their problems themselves.
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But who is really the stupid one?
When you are stating your opinion you believe you are right, otherwise it wouldn't be your opinion.
Now someone may come up with a idea, that seems stupid to you. Now you can either go onto discredit the person as being incompetent or dumb, or you can try to understand their point. It may be still stupid, however even in the most stupid statements there are often hints of originality a different way at looking at something. Now you can use that bit of insight to revise your
Reminds me of the old FidoNet rules.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Reminds me of the old FidoNet rules.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Things certainly were different when it took a certain type of person to get online. Having to learn the Hayes command set filtered out a lot of people. Similar to how a ham license required a Morse code test.
I wonder how much improved the Internet would be if you could get kicked off for misusing apostrophes or confusing "their/they're".
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Wheaton's Law (Score:3)
http://www.wheatonslaw.com/ [wheatonslaw.com]
Don't be a dick.
Time to fork the project (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Time to fork the project (Score:5, Funny)
Be Excellent to One Another! (Score:4, Funny)
Be Excellent to Each Another!
-Bill and Ted [youtu.be]
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Reminds me of an old joke (Score:5, Insightful)
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Cute joke, but after recruiting hundreds over 30 years, I’d rather a smart team player than brilliant asshole.
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You'd Think (Score:4, Insightful)
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Like dealing with assholery? You don't think that's disruptive? Every asshole think's his shit is ice cream, but it's really just shit.
I once had to take over a team that was producing really bad software. It turned out the problem was just one disruptive asshole. He was convinced he was the only developer there who was any good, when in fact he was the only one that was *bad*. Once I got my boot firmly on his neck, the team's problems disappeared, but it was a huge waste of my time to keep him from anta
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Well, classical Dunning-Kruger. It will be a problem as long as humans exist. Sometimes though, you have "assholes" that are unbelievably good at what the do and you want them to work on your stuff no matter what. That is why a CoC that drives these people away indiscriminately is a really bad idea. "Assholes" need to be analysed, classified and dealt with individually. And some just need somebody that cleans up behind them and they are still massively worth all the damage they cause. True, that is by far n
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Check the signature. There's always irony
Great (Score:2)
Sounds familiar (Score:3)
- Be Efficient
- Have a plan to kill everyone you meet
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I gotta admit, I started reading through the list and it made me think of this [youtube.com]...
So Torvalds is out? (Score:2)
See subject.
Time until abuse of the CoC... (Score:2)
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... We have abuse!
Who are we cancelling today?
Yeah, about that last one... (Score:2)
Translation: "when we disagree, try to understand why you're wrong."
OpenBSD (Score:3)
The unspoken and subjective words meet (Score:2, Insightful)
This is always a bad combination.
First, note that the seemingly "nice" policy is nothing but subjective blather; nothing is precisely defined and therefore nothing can be used in the future to measure objectively whether an individual has violated the policy nor whether the policy is being applied fairly and uniformly.
Second, note what we are not being told:
* Why is this policy suddenly needed after so many years of no policy at all? Could it be that in the new era of "wokeness" some people have asked for a
Why do you need a code of conduct (Score:3)
Why do you need a code of conduct when only 5 people are involved?
repost (Score:2)
https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
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I think both sides of CoC controversies are weird.
It seems superfluous. I mean there's nothing stopping a community from penalizing jerks without one. The CoC is so vague as to not really mean anything practically different.
On the flipside, if you are concerned about CoC empowering the project to arbitrarily mess with a contributor, it's worth keeping in mind that they can already do so. No CoC is needed to go to town on someone.
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Right, it turns out, all the whining about "politically correct" speech is just a cover for hate speech.
There is no normal speech that is discarded, only the hate speech.
So fuck off and I hope your hood catches fire and burns your face off. --- totally "PC" you fucking snowflake. You can't fucking refrain from hate speech, you moron? There is nothing political about basic rights. If you're unsure on that, see the Declaration of Independence.
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Act politely, if you know the person gets annoyed with certain things, you don't do those things.
But in this scheme its between you and the other person, not between you and the terrible party moderator from hell that must get offended by the other person OR you.
It goes like "hi dude", "i prefer girl", "ok girl" instead of "hi dude" "THE PARTY DETECTED YOU MISGENDERED THE PERSON, YOU'RE BEING PURGED AND WE WILL INFORM YOUR BOSS OVER AND OVER UNTIL YOU GET FIRED"
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Sure, why don't you try it and see if you get a cheque from George Soros?
https://www.usatoday.com/story... [usatoday.com]
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Re:Racist speech will be allowed (Score:4, Insightful)
I still encourage anyone who thinks that posting anti-white racism is uniquely tolerated on social media to put their money where their mouth is and try it, what's the worst that could happen? [usatoday.com] If a van comes screeching up to your front door, it's probably just some hot SJW women coming to have sex with you ;-)
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Yeah, more agi-prop from "Mike" at Russia Today, just what we needed.
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https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
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Didn't dispute anything I said, or the fact that there are members in the FreeBSD community that post shit like that on social media. Bonus points if you find my contribs tho.
Re:Wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
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Actually, this CoC allows you to be a really bad ass. With it, you just ignore people that try to waste your time, the ultimate insult. Bit it is a passive act, so the CoC does not apply. I mean, they will not seriously want to enforce that you have to answer to queries, right? (If they do, that can be fixed very fast...)
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CoC don't stop people form being assholes anymore than you refrained from insulting iggymanz. What they do is give weapons to those who sow divisiveness and discord. A CoC allow
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Do you think you deserve to have you life destroyed for this?
And what part of anything of what I said has ANYTHING to do with this? You have meandered into a different topic complete with strawman arguments thrown in.
Because that's what the lynch mob does when the CoC is used to summon them.
Again what does that have to do with anything the BSD CoC? Clearly, for you 1 +1 then . . . 17. Please cite examples where the CoC of BSD has done this. Please cite examples were a CoC in an open source community has the ability to summon the police.
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I really don't understand this. You're typing a message to a co-contributor to some project on the Internet. If they say they're a he, why the hell would you insist on calling them a she? Because you think their syntax looks too feminine?
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Yeah...
The way I see it, using the pronoun they do not prefer is similar to spelling their name wrong. If a colleague of your is called Mike and you insist on calling him John, he will eventually get mad at you. If your tongue slips and you call him occasionally by the wrong name, you are likely to get a "Actually, my name is Mike". And that's about it.
I have students who are transgender. From time to time, people use the wrong pronoun. They don't get mad, I am guessing they are somewhat used to it. They'll
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Go into a bar, find a guy bigger than you and insist on calling him she and you're likely to get some manual instruction in manners. People act like objecting to being misgendered is this new idea, but it's pretty much a universal insult.
I understand that some people are threatened by another person's preferred pronoun not matching up with their definition of what that gender should look like, but even that doesn't apply on the Internet.
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Also, no such thing as a "male pronoun". Pronouns don't have sexual "organs".
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