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Java Programming

The Network is the Car 55

Posted by CmdrTaco from the dream-machines dept.
An anonymous reader sent us a little JavaSoft PR Bit about Java integrated into a concept car. It's mostly full of your usual "Ra-Ra Change the World" kinda stuff you might expect, but it has a few interesting notes (Using wireless ether, Ricochet, and a cel modem to provide different bandwidth streams depending on location, the fact that the machine could be ported to Linux, the fact that it could download MP3s to cars) so its actually kinda interesting.
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The Network is the Car More

The Network is the Car

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  • I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

    For my money, Java is, was, and probably always will be a complete waste of time. From what I've been told it's a C/C++ derivative for starters...and I really don't understand why the world needs another one of those. Sure, the shameless wannabes at Sun have been going on about it's universal portability, but it being both compiled *and* interpreted makes it very, very slow...not to mention so processor intensive that it isn't funny.

    Also yes, there is the classic lake web applet, which certainly looks pretty...but in terms of actually making anything useful for the Web I personally haven't come across anything in Java that you couldn't write to run much more q
  • Thats an obvious problem facing a safty concious industry. The solution is simple -- differnt computer systems. One runs the networked Java stuff, the other runs the car. The two may communicate, but the communication will be well defined and purposely limited.

    Thus, the system running Java/Windows/whatever will not be able to operate the breaks because the computer operating the car will not recognize a command to operate the breaks other than the break pedal.

    The Java/Windows/network thingy could crash, and the car will continue to run just fine.
  • I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
    For my money, Java is, was, and probably always will be a complete waste of time. From what I've been told it's a C/C++ derivative for starters...and I really don't understand why the world needs another one of those. Sure, the shameless wannabes at Sun have been going on about it's universal portability, but it being both compiled *and* interpreted makes it very, very slow...not to mention so processor intensive that it isn't funny.
    Also yes, there is the classic lake web applet, which certainly looks pretty...but in terms of actually making anything useful for the Web I personally haven't come across anything in Java that you couldn't write to run much more quickly and efficiently in something else. As for it's use in appliances...well, maybe. But again, I don't see the point...except for possible problems like the Y2K bug, why not just use hard coded chips?
    If you ask me, Sun's new slogan for Java should be:-

    "Java : The solution for a problem which doesn't exist."

  • Bah. Just make it so that the distracting stuff doesn't work unless the car is in neutral or Park.

  • I think it's kinda funny (and/or interesting as the case may be) to see talk of Java being used for what it was designed for - for writing small applications to be used in consumer devices. If i remember correctly, the first thing that was written with Java (or rather, Oak I believe it was known as at that point) was a remote control.

    - coug_

  • There's probably a dozen reasons why this wouldn't work well in practice. Differences in latency could make it difficult to reassemble packets into a coherent stream. Also you would typically be dealing with a different provider so that routing becomes a problem.
  • if your car knows where it is, can find out where other cars are, and can see the road in some way, then you are not far from getting ditching the steering wheel for a command line interface.

    it doesn't matter how much entertainment you have in the car, since you won't be driving it - unless you're doing *that* for entertainment value. in a few years, anyway.
  • Ah, but do they have a *network* in the car?

    Any dummy can throw a map system into a car
    with a UI on it. How many get the map
    realtime over the net via HTTP by tying their
    GPS coords into a CGI request?

    And how many decode the car's data bus and
    push that data over UDP/IP?

    MB (who worked on the car)
  • >Not to mention online porn, crackers, and viruses ...
    >
    >Do we really need more connectivity while we're driving?

    Well I am not sure about the porn while driving but the downloading of email/music while driving would be great. But on the otherhand, the idea that viruses could crash my truck while driving down the loop does scare me a bit.

    I am willing to risk it IF we can run a real os and not M$.

    just my opinion,
    Scott

    Scott
    C{E,F,O,T}O
    sboss dot net
    email: scott@sboss.net
  • ... inspired cars like these. Don't get me wrong, from a "neeto" perspective, they're great! Gadgets aplenty. I'm thinking of the other side of them, the practical side. I come from Vancouver, Canada, the city with the *most* luxury cars per capita in North America. We also have, I'm convinced, the most horrible drivers. Everything from clueless 40-something moms with cellphones driving minivans to young rich stockbrokers in Porsches, cutting people off. The sheer number of people who *don't pay attention* when they're driving is scary! IMHO, the last thing that we need is more things distracting people while they drive.

    If there was some way to ensure that only competent drivers could wire up their cars with attention-grabbing electronics, I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact, I think that this sort of thing would be absolutely amazing for limousines and other chauffered cars! Grabbing your Mp3 collection from home while getting the latest version of some documents from your office, and playing Half-Life.... Fun.

    It'll never catch on anyhow, we'll start running short of gas worldwide before the benefits of a in-car computer system outweigh the price.

  • I'm working on a HUD for my car ( http://ro.com/~jeffj/car/ [ro.com]) that will read data from the car, like speed and RPM, and relay the information back to a computer and to the HUD. I even found some cheap GPS hardware. All this, coupled with the mapping software thats being worked on at the autoLinux project means that you could have your own custom built system, even with some Java interfaces, in your current car in a few months. Thats much better than on your next car you'll have in a decade. Of course, you'll be able to tweak all the software and interface some low level hardware if you want. That's hard to do with a factory package.
  • I come from Bellingham, WA (the first real US city south of Vancouver) and I agree with the statement that Vancouver has the most horrible drivers.

    Whenever I get cutoff, or see a red-light run, or just about any other idiocy you can do with a car, I can ususally count on seeing Canadian plates.

    Canadians Go Home!
    ---
    Put Hemos through English 101!
  • This is why the Electronic Troubleshooting Manual for your car can be your friend -- rip the $%#* thing out!!

    But seriously, manufacturers are not going to put much on the windsheild because that could distract the driver. Viruses and other things might mess with the system, but that system is seporate from the one that actually runs the car.

    And most of all: If I'm going to drive a car with ads, then I excpect to pay a low price for that car because someone else will make enough money so that the price can go down. Even so, I'll pay regular price for a car without ads. Or maybe I'll just keep my nifty Honda :-)
  • What's to say the police won't have some sort of access to turn your car off or track where you are going?

    Good thought. I imagine that, if this something that's actually going to go somewhere, and get developed, some manufacturer or other will come along and make a chip to put in there (in place of the current one) that will have a unique ID, and a few other encrypted items that will allow it to tell police, government, etc. where you are, what you're doing, what web pages you're looking at, etc. and/or let you restrict them (for kids that you might be carrying along with you)...

    reminiscent of the V Chip, in my opinion. Of course, they haven't invented the chip I'm talking about yet...

  • Is it just me or does everyone find the constant use of the term "dot-comming" annoying as hell. The marketing department should keep their hands off the product and more importantly off the damn dictionary. Stop trying to create words from moronic memes!

  • When milliseconds matter, try using 'C' and then try using assembly code. ;) Using Java to measure realtime events like in a racecar would not be a good use of the technology. Using it within the scoreing system and crew information system make alittle more sense. Remember the saying, "Use the right tool for the right job."
  • I can just see it after MS gets ahold of this..

    Driving down the road, slamming my fist in frustration against the dashboard as the 'windows noise' plays over and over and over.. a sadistic little animated character with a typical name like 'sticky, the gearshift assistant' dancing maniacally across my display with helpful advice like 'Your lights are currently on, would you like to turn them on?' 'You just passed a truck, would you like information on buying a truck like that?' or 'You Too Can Make $10,000 in Two Days!!!'.
    But seriously, this could be useful if the 'net connection were restricted to certain info.. no adds etc. Of course, that'll never happen.
    Dreamweaver
  • Actually, there is a law concerning televisions viewable by the driver in vehicles that would probably make the kind of thing you are talking about moot and illegal. The panel will likely be restricted to legitimate display of instrumentation. They don't just have a web browser there for you to look at, the most advanced and unusual thing there to distract you is the map. I've seen the car, and talked with one of the people working outthere, and they don't want the visual displays to become too invasive for exactly this reason. Another reason for all the voice controls... Hands (and eye) free operation.
  • Just imagine, even more things to cause trafic accidents. Remember just because something is posible it does not make it a good idea.
  • Since it can run Linux, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet...

    Beowulf! ;-)

    Think about it! All that precious time stuck in rush hour traffic can be used to model intergalactic gas clouds. The bigger the jam, the more the RAM! Screw the cops, we need Gflops!

    We got a great big convoy, hackin' through the night
    We got a great big convoy, a Linux geek's delight!
    C'mon and join our convoy, we'll take 'em dead or alive
    We're gonna net this hackin' convoy and brute force RC5!
    Connnvvooooooooy...!

  • I admit I've been to neither Calgary nor Vancouver, but I don't think anything can out-do Montreal. Just see my rant [woot.net] on the subject - Montreal drivers are the worst I've seen.
  • Just be careful not to buy a Winbuick.

    Jokes aside, companies take this kind of thing seriously. I know a Ph.D./CS who was hired by Daimler Benz to work on this kind of thing.

  • Bose is already working with a prototype network system that they're planning on imbedding in cars. It's called an "entertainment ring" network, according to a friend of mine who works for them. But removing any one component brings the entire network down. MP3 player's broken? Sorry, can't use you GPS. Doesn't seem like a bright idea to me.

    -Ender
  • There are a bunch of these cars in concept form.. Last month's Wired had a feature on futuristic cars, and www.megacar.com [megacar.com] has a pretty cool website (flash).
  • Does this strike anyone else as a colossally bad idea?

    It's already become evident that advertising is one of the main driving forces behind the web; likewise, advertisers will be scrambling to create in-car ads that will put billboards and banner ads to shame.

    Yahoo! and other search engines can demand a hefty price for a "keyword" that lets advertisers target consumers looking for a particular item. Online automobile services won't be far behind.

    Picture this scenario:
    You're driving down the freeway. You get thirsty. You log on to a map service to find the nearest 7-Eleven. Suddenly a rich-media, Shockwave-enhanced Pepsi ad pops up onto your heads-up display, complete with streaming music and video -- you promptly crash into the center divider.

    Not to mention online porn, crackers, and viruses ...

    Do we really need more connectivity while we're driving?
  • Who cares about the actual technology, this has GOT to be the coolest job on the planet, building these kinds of things...

  • Ha! (Score:2)

    by jabber ( 13196 )
    After checking your car's Web page, the person on the other end of the line informs you that... your car is slashdotted. Damn! Don'cha hate it when that happens?

    And what about those times when you're passing a semi, and the garbage collection algorithm kicks in, eh?
  • I have a CDPD Cell Modem for my Linux Laptop (Sierra Wireless Air Card in a Mitsubishi Amity with 4 hr battery -- 3 lbs!). It ain't got nowhere near the bandwith needed for MP3s or Real Audio and the latency is huge. But it works for reading mail and lynxing around the net. Plus I can use it on the train as long as we're not in the tunnel under the East River.
  • Sun sponsor the McLaren F1 racing team, and also provide hardware. see here [sun.com]. However, it doesn't use Java in the car, as far as I know.
  • check out:
    http://www.Wilde-Evolutions.com/Godzilla.h tm [wilde-evolutions.com]
    at 360kW / .7 kw/hp = 500 hp
    Look at the datsun picture.... that's what kind of fun.
    also check out:
    [wilde-evolutions.com]
    http://www.Wilde-Evolutions.com/photos_mazda.htm

  • A few issues (Score:3)

    by Shoeboy ( 16224 ) on Friday July 09, 1999 @07:23AM (#1810499) Homepage
    If they're going to network cars, the first thing we need is a better collision avoidance algoritm.
    The standard ethernet method is ok: if your car is in a collision you wait a random amount of time (determined by the speed of your mechanic) and try again. The problem with this is the high fatality rate.
    Token ring can't work, because we'd have to replace all our stop lights with 4 way stops. This will be more expensive and kill average throughput.
    Regardless of how they do this, I don't want to be considered an acceptable packet loss statistic.
    --Shoeboy
  • It all starts with a 5"x7" LCD touchscreen, head unit and basic car audio functionality.
    To this we add CD changers, graphic equalizers, surround sound controls, all the other typical goodies...

    The fun starts when you shell out the $2500 for the Navigation package that is coupled with a GPS system and onboard CD-ROM containing the street level map of your part of the country (a'la DeLorme).

    Then you subscribe to their Guide service, which gives your car the the functionality of OnStar (or whatever) where you can get directions or reference to something enroute from a live person, declare a medical or automotive emergency to a central dispatcher, etc.

    Then you add security, (LoJack with teeth) where if your car is stolen, the Alpine people can trace it, kill the ignition and direct the police to the it. All the while carrying on a conversation with the thief.

    Then you add the ability to view DVD movies. I'm sure in the near future videophones and on-line access will be part of the package.

    And the nicest thing is that after you have that pricy screen module, the other services plug in as you want them. Saw it at a JoDi's. Sharp, but too rich for my blood. But, if I could plug a PC into it, I just might be persuaded.
  • 1. If you compile your car to native code it goes faster.

    2. Imagine how cool it would be the next time you lost your car in the mall parking lot. Just do a traceroute....

    3. Instead of registering at the DMV, you would use NSI or register.com (ok, maybe that's not so good).

    4. The next time someone cuts you off, you just DoS attack their car until they end up on the side of the road.

    5. "I locked my keys in the car. What's the root password?"
  • Bose isn't known for their prowess in car electronics. Their "premium" car stereos are gleefully ripped out by those looking for decent sound, and I don't care much for their home theatre stuff either. As for car networks, my GPS interfaces with the Palm III, and the stereo stands alone.
  • I subscribe to Linux Journal and although I dont have the issue with me at work right now, I know in one of last years issues there was an article about ARGO. ARGO is a car that is run by linux. Actually to be correct it is guided by linux, it still runs on gas.

    I wish I could provide a URL, but i dont have the issue at hand. I know the project is running in Italy and that it has been tested and works. You can just sit and relax as the car steers itself.

    When I get home I will reply to my response with the URL for all who are interested in reading about it.

  • I just begin to wonder if these cars will cause the same accident-craze as cell-phones did. "If this idiot would get off IRC in front of us, we might be going somewhere!" ..I hope it doesn't end up coming down to this.
  • I see a HUGE problem with this. Microsoft will undoubtedly try to get into this. We WILL have all of the things GM talked about last year:

    General car fault. Turn your key to continue

    Driving along, all of a sudden.... your brakes are activated. You screech to a halt as someone behind you slams into your back end.

    You'll need to buy a new car every year because of the proprietary roads that are laid each year.

    And you won't be able to pump your own gas, anymore. We'll have to hire techs to disassemble the rear of the car, program the gas cap to openn (using asm, of course.) and install the gas. Reverse the process... it'll only take 5 hours to get gas!

    And then we'll have the dreaded "I had gas installed yesterday, and now my car doesn't work. I think you idiots gave me a virus." "Is the key in the ignition?" "Oh... "

    YIPPIE!!! I can't wait! :)
  • What fun is an electric car?

    Can you say constant torque no matter what the speed?

    That means that unlike your current car which might be 100 HP but spends most of it's time running at inconvenient RPM's so you're actually only getting 50 HP or less out of your engine, an electric car would deliver that 100 HP instantly, all the time, no matter if you were at at dead stop or doing 80 MPH.

    Electric cars will rock, and it will be much easier to build a tire smoking beast that does 4 seconds 0-60.

    No shifting either.
  • "...port the machine to Linux."

    That would rock! It would cut WAY down on the "fragmentation of Linux" that everyone is complaining about if there was a way to port the hardware to the software, rather than vice versa.
    ---
    Put Hemos through English 101!
  • Well, it must be a perfect match since both will be slow and buggy...

    it adds a new meaning to the words crash and bus :)
  • It's scary though. Reminiscient of OBD3. What's to say the police won't have some sort of access to turn your car off or track where you are going?
    Scary. What fun is an electric car anyway?
  • There are some applications of this that would really make life alot easier, i.e. Access to updated and current maps so you can use the maps and your sattelite GPD uplink to find detours, a dedicated line so you can call for help in an emergency, although it probably wouldn't work if your battery was dead. But here in Ann Arbor the drivers are crazy enough as it is, and the ones with Cell Phones are even worse! That's just what I need, to get hit by a minivan while crossing the street b/c someone is trying to check their email instead of driving. The applications are endless, but I wouldn't bet on the consumer using these resources very responsibly.

    "A long time have I watched this one"
  • Do you think the car can bind the CDPD modem and the Richcocet modem togther for 28.8+14.4=43.2 while standing still?

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