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Konfabulator Coming to Windows
Posted by
michael
on Fri Nov 05, 2004 08:31 AM
from the tyranny-of-the-majority dept.
from the tyranny-of-the-majority dept.
islandroots writes "Arlo Rose, developer of the popular Konfabulator widget, is moving his application from Mac OS X to Windows. Back when Apple unveiled their next OS, Mac OS X Tiger with Dashboard, Arlo Rose accused Apple of copying his application. 'We're all diehard Macintosh developers here, but we recognize that Windows is the dominant platform,' Rose said in a statement. 'When you have a great idea, you want more than 2 percent of the global market to have access to it.'"
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Konfabulator Coming to Windows
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Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.metlin.org/ | Last Journal: Friday July 20, @01:58PM)
"Even moving to Windows may not ensure Konfabulator free reign. Microsoft plans for the next version of Windows to have a slightly different twist on the same idea. The company has demonstrated a feature called Sidebar that allows access to similar sorts of information in one part of the Windows screen."
That answers your question
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.joestoner.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 24 2003, @10:47AM)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:4, Informative)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://icdweb.cc.purdue.edu/~klowe1/)
The smart thing to do would be to build up some cash, start working on the next killer idea, and release it cross-platform next time. That WILL teach Apple a lesson, though a small one.
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
also, try to pick a concept that wasn't implemented in the classic Mac OS that Apple is likely to bring forward into OS X.
Re: The History of Apple's Desk Accessories (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Ma
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://therapyshopper.com/)
Dashboard looks similar externally to Konfabulator because both are OS X looking applications, with a glossy theme. Internally, they are different, although some of their feature sets overlap by allowing use of HTML common scripting languages.
Sorry if I'm vague and foggy, but I just woke up. Please feel free to flame and roast this post.
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 01 2007, @01:47AM)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 06 2002, @09:42AM)
http://www.nat.org/dashboard/
Ultimately, aren't they all just rip-offs of GDesklets and Karamba anyway?
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.damek.org/)
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Konfabulator [konfabulator.com] coming to Windows is old. old news. [com.com] In fact, that announcement on December 16, 2003 predates the Apple Dashboard [apple.com] announcement [apple.com] on June 28, 2004 by over 6 months. Konfabulator for Windows was even already in beta form at the time of its announcement, so the idea of porting it is definitely older than 6 months before any word from Apple.
It comes down to this: Arlo Rose was porting Konfabulator over to Windows way before Apple even announced Dashboard. The port has very little to do about Apple coming out with a product similar to Konfabulator, it's more about Arlo Rose wanting to tap into the large Windows market.
That's not to say that Arlo Rose is not bitter about the whole thing - he has made a lot of snide comments on the matter - but the fact is that "little desktop applications" have been a part of Mac OS ever since it first came out. Apple has always had Desktop Applications, small applications that take up minimal RAM and do one small thing well, such as a note pad, a calculator, a clock, etc. If anything it is likely that Rose was inspired by Apple, not the other way around.
Re:Dude--Apple stole our idea! (Score:4, Interesting)
A couple of weeks ago, the following clause was added to Apple's developer program agreement:
You can view the full agreement by going to connect.apple.com [apple.com] and clicking Join ADC.
Konfabulator going to Windows? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.sammamamma.com/ | Last Journal: Friday June 15, @01:49AM)
Re:slashdotted already (Score:5, Informative)
Re:slashdotted already (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.themintonfamily.com/)
Re:slashdotted already (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.petedavis.net/)
Now, porting that to Windows and keeping the above statement true: That'll be impressive!
Re:slashdotted already (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.uswx.com/us/wx/)
It's pretty ingenious.
Konfabulator takes a Dual G5/2.0 with 1.5G of RAM and makes it run like an Apple IIc.
At least, that's what I found when I tried it.
I didn't realized that is wasn't out for Windows yet, because XP had the same effect when I installed it on my PC.
- Tony
Re:slashdotted already (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.hylobatidae.org/minerva/)
When there was the Dashboard brouhaha a while back over ideas being 'stolen' from Konfabulator, I got linked to an interesting comparison between the two [daringfireball.net]. It's quite illuminating reading, and should explain some of the performance, um, issues of Konfabulator:I really got the impression that one reason Apple passed over it for incorporation into MacOS X Tiger was because of the low-level architecture not being up to scratch. Instead of using the same, single instance of Safari's rendering and Javascript for all widgets, booting up some monolithic monstrosity for each sounds just... Horrid...
Oh, and the Windows port was apparently announced in December last year [com.com].
Re:slashdotted already (Score:5, Insightful)
The graphics for their widgets are gorgeous! I really have to applaud the folks at Pixoria for paying attention to detail. I was pretty happy to try it out and return some of the whimsical little things back to my Mac that I used to have under the old OS.
In their implementation, they used Java to run their stuff, so the result is that Konfabulator can be a bit CPU intensive to run. I didn't have quite the performance issues that another poster had, but running more than a couple of widgets did send my CPU usage soaring.
I disagree with the assertion that Apple stole the idea. Returning Desk Accessory function to OS X had always been on the development path. It was simply low enough on the priority list that it didn't get approval to be included until the pending OS release, Tiger.
I will concede that it does encourage one to raise an eyebrow at Apple for calling their DA's "widgets." But I can also point out that if anyone with half a brain was going to steal someone else's idea, they would at least give it a different name. And does anyone in the general public really know when Apple decided on that name for their DAs in OS X?
Early on, there was a critique leveled against Pixoria that rather than just make desk accessories, they should have put their efforts into making an editor that regular people could use to make those desk accessories. Considering that Microsoft is planning on making their own similar desk accessory system, I think that would be a pretty good idea to come up with an editor like that.
For an example: I ultimately decided that Konfabulator didn't have enough value for me to purchase it. But I did choose to buy a program for editing style sheets called, CSSEdit [macrabbit.com], even though I can easily slap together a style sheet by hand. The idea is the same, sure I could load someone else's work, but I like to see my own stuff.
CSSEdit had value for me because it made it easier for me to manage my own work. Konfabulator is fun, but I can't do my own stuff with it.
Finally, one important thing should be pointed out: just because Apple (and ultimately Microsoft) are going to be including their own DA code into their OSs, that doesn't mean there isn't room for competition! If the people at Pixoria could rewrite Konfabulator to lower-level code that isn't so resource intensive, I'm sure they could make a strongly competitive product. They certainly have set a pretty good standard by the look of Konfabulator's widgets.
Doesn't seem like they died that hard... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How about this? (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.davidleblond.com/)
Re:Wonder what it is? ....slashdotted (Score:5, Informative)
Long answer and editorial: Konfabulator is a resurrection of the old Apple Desk Accessories if you used those. This has been used to claim that really, Konfabulator isn't doing anything new, and that Apple isn't stealing Konfab. I find this argument to be malarky. Sure, Konfab is the spiritual decendent of Desk Accesories. And maybe even Tiger's widgets started as a coincidentally parrallel development within Apple. But writing them in JavaScript? The look and feel? The likely base package of Widgets? Come on. The most you can give Apple is that someone started working on a primitive version of a Desk Accesories successor, and someone came along and said "That's neat. Why don't you make it more like Konfabulator?"
Nothing uncommon here (Score:5, Insightful)
"Many people think of the same thing at the same time across the world - it's a matter of who gets it done first".
Time and time again I've seen this happen in the software world, where it's appearance is more noticable all thanks to the speed and expanse of the internet.
So, while it sounds like I'm backing Apple in this one, what I'm really saying is it might not specifically have been plagarism, sometimes it's just a bad coincidence.
PLD.
Re:Nothing uncommon here (Score:5, Interesting)
All in all, its not really even a new paintjob as much as it is just a different engine. I had hypercard apps that could do all the same look and feel with the right free externals (remember -- the original Myst was written in Hypercard -- it still looks as beautiful today as it did back then).
This is what pisses me off about the whole Arlo Rose They Stole Mahhhh Idear bit...he was part of the team that was developing ideas like this at Apple. Its not like he didn't know this stuff was already available to the public. He changed the engine to one of his own (actually I heard it was a reappropriated BSD'd XMLHTTP engine -- which is cool if thats what happened as the BSD is intended to allow folks to do almost whatever they want with the code, unlike other licenses that force one to take specific actions based on others morality) and put it out there.
And now he claims that ANYONE doing the same thing is a thief and a plagerizer because he had the idea to rip someone elses idea off first. He's not complaining about people ripping of his app...he's complaining about ripping off his idea of ripping off apps. Its the whole slashdot joke of I Patent The Idea of Pattenting Ideas that got old years ago...
Fuck Arlo and Fuck All Ya'll...
Desk Accesories (Score:5, Insightful)
Dashboard seems like a remake of that. Push a button and get all your accessories to pop up.
Konfabulator on the other hand is a whole javascript runtime engine, and _that's_ what they're charging for. They're not charging for the concept of widgets (which could arguably be the same as DAs in the first place).
So it's not so black and white about who took who's idea. Apple has the right to reanimate its DAs... They just happened to choose a way to handle the different gadgets that is vaguely similar to the way Konf does it (html/css/javascript).
I still think there's room for both. Dashboard isn't always on. When it is, it dims the rest of your screen. Konf can run next to other apps.
Apple copied Rose? Or Rose copied Apple? (Score:5, Informative)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday February 26 2002, @06:06AM)
Re:Apple copied Rose? Or Rose copied Apple? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Apple copied Rose? Or Rose copied Apple? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're taking into account the moments we expressed the same idea, aka you before me, to establish that it is your theory and therefore that i barely proved it.
No, I expressed the same idea as you, and it is neither your nor my theory.
As a matter of fact, it is an idea as old as ideas themselves, the idea that ideas are alive and free and don't belong to none, whenever and however they are expressed.
We are just medium through which ideas express themselves.
Not a clear case (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft also threatened PC manufacturers who didn't want to include the IE browser and took measures to prevent other shipping with Netscape. They produced other products like Outlook Express and IIS and gave them away free to specifically hurt Netscape's market share. The changed the licencing from NT 3.51 workstation to NT4 workstation simply to stop people using NT workstation to run Netscape and other competing internet server products.
The list goes on. But if Microsoft had simply produced a Web Browser and added it to NEW versions of its OS do you think there would be a case for an anti monopoly trial?
If Apple announces Dashboard for Windows and Linux and all old versions of Mac OS then you have a valid comparison. But extending their OS in this way as part of the core OS looks to be a logical extension.
don't be such a pansy (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://marreck.com/)
The proper response is to figure out a way to differentiate yourself. Maybe Konfabulator could be better at XMLHTTP or some other technology.
The fact that you can burn cd's natively in OS X doesn't seem to have hurt Toast that much, probably because Toast provides a slew of other options.
DesktopX (Score:5, Informative)
(http://pictures.hurleyhome.com/)
If interested, check it out www.desktopx.com
Re:DesktopX (Score:5, Informative)
(http://pictures.hurleyhome.com/)
Here is the correct link DesktopX [stardock.com]
Apple doesn't buy its own inventions back! (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand. Apple has bought some cool technology to next Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger). Pixelshox Technology is one great example. It's been renamed Quartz Composer in Tiger and is basis of CoreVideo.
So Apple will buy great inventions to their OS, but they're not that stupid to buy their own inventions back.
(Sorry about typos, English is not my native lang.)
A summary of most posts here ... (Score:3, Informative)
(Last Journal: Wednesday February 01 2006, @08:39AM)
HERE IT IS [adzoox.com]
Titled: What A Kon!
Re:sour grapes (Score:4, Funny)
This just means it will fit perfectly into the Windows world.
Re:sour grapes (Score:4, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/)
AH! On that note, I predict great sucess on Windows!
Object Desktop anyone? (Score:3, Informative)
Been around for years.
Innovation? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.haxors.com/)
I wonder how much time he spent thinking of ways to improve Konfabulator to give people an incentive to use it instead of Dashboard. It would seem from this statement and the article that he just sort of rolled over.
Also, I didn't see anything in the article about it and the Konfabulator website is loading slooooow as hell, but do they intend to coninue developing Konfabulator for OS X? When this originally hit the news there was a pretty large backlash and a lot of people came out in support of Konfabulator. I really hope they don't intend to just ditch them all.
not due until the end of 2006?? vapor what? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is what vaporware dreams are made of. I doubt we'll ever see an official release of konfabulator. With that kind of target date for release there will be dozens of other copycats ready to get their versions embeded with spyware out to the masses.
Screenshots (Score:4, Informative)
Let me get this right... (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.dr-dyna.net/)
Kapsules (Score:3, Interesting)
uses the
Re:Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)
They offered to hire the Watson developer, he turned them down because he wanted to be retro-actively paid for all of his Watson work even though Apple wasn't going to use his codebase for Sherlock.
Konfabulator/Dashboard
Both of these are inspired by Apple's Desk Accessories from 1984.
SoundJam/iTunes
Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into Itunes.
LiteSwitch X/Command-Tab
Please -- this has been in Windows for years. I've also heard it was in Next as well.
Re:Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.zarrastudios.com/)
Sherlock came out before Watson. Watson cried a bit when Sherlock was updated but then went on to make a better product.
Konfabulator was not first. Apple had desktop widgets quite some time ago. Not to mention Stardock, Karamba and lots of others.
SoundJam was purchased to become iTunes.
LiteSwitch was implementing a feature that used to exist in System 9 and disappeared in OS X. Apple merely added the feature back in. Even without LiteSwitch command-tab worked, the functionality was simply enhanced with the latest version of OS X.
Konfabulator and LiteSwitch are simply a case of outside developers filling a hole that was obvious. OS X did not hit the shelves as a complete operating system. Every version that has been released has added features back in that were missing. Sometimes these features step on a developer's toes. It is sad, but it happens and it should be expected. These developers should be happy they got paid while the feature was missing and move on to the next big thing. It is unrealistic to think that a simple little toy program is going to be a permanent cash cow.
If Longhorn came out without Active Desktop and then put it back in at a future date, would anyone cry foul? This is the exact same situation.
These developers need to face the facts. Their implementation is a copy of an idea that has been around since the 80s. Their implementation is bloated and runs like crap. I know, I used to run their software until I realized it was slowing down both my cpu and my gpu, then I junked the entire mess.
Let them move over to windows, they will be right at home.
The basic problem with Konfabulator... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://nyampa.blogspot.com/)
So like it or not, Apple is actually doing something that works out really well for me. I'm sorry it doesn't work out well for the Konfabulator folks, but unfortunately I think their business model was unrealistic.
Erm, what's this now? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.mhn.org/~graham)
So, basically, what we're saying is: Some company wrote Active Desktop for Mac(*), and now they're porting it to Windows.
But, didn't all(**) the Windows users turn off Active Desktop back in 1998/99 or thereabouts? And if they wanted to turn it back on, wouldn't they just do that, rather than paying good money for some third-party program?
I don't get this idea.
-Graham
(*) I am well aware that whatever-the-hell for Mac probably came out well before Active Desktop ever did. However, before you flame me on this point, please understand that I don't give a crap.
(**) Everyone who works in tech support knows at least one (l)user who still has Active Desktop enabled. However, it's a mistake, and even that (l)user's co-workers all know it.
Dear Konfabulator team (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday January 26 2005, @05:18AM)
If I write something, NOONE should be allowed to write anything similar, I am sure you all agree.
Stop whining!
Instead think of all the things OTHER PEOPLE did, that you copied, to make your (good/bad/ugly - delete as applicable) application.
Share the love, not the hate. h8rz