Guido van Rossum Leaves Zope.com 248
VladDrac writes "Guido van Rossum, the author of the Python programming language, announced at OSCON last night that he's leaving zope.com, to work for a new startup called 'Elemental Security', founded by Dan Farmer (known from several security tools such as Satan). Guido leaving Zope.com will also probably mean that he will be no longer involved in Zope3 development, but hopefully he'll have more time to spend on Python development." Guido says that he's excited about his new employer, but that nothing substantial will change about Python as a result of the move. "It's just that I'll be working from the West coast." Python is "already quite secure," he says, and will be the basis of an upcoming security product ("just getting started") from Elemental.
His goodbye posting (Score:5, Informative)
Typo (Score:0, Informative)
Please fix
Guido's goodbye message (Score:5, Informative)
Guido van Rossum guido@python.org
Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:24:54 -0400
Dear Zope 3 developers,
Last night at OSCON I announced that I am moving to California. I
have accepted a new job at Elemental Security, a security software
startup in San Mateo. You may have heard of one of the founders, Dan
Farmer, who is the (co-)author of several well-known free security
checking programs: Satan, Titan and The Coroner's Toolkit.
Elemental is a brand new company, and I can't say much yet about the
product, except that it will be aimed at enterprise security and use
Python. I'm very excited about working with Dan on its design and
implementation.
I'm also excited about moving to California, which has long been a
dream of mine. I'm looking forward to getting together with the many
local Python users and developers once I'm settled; right now, my life
and that if my family is total chaos because we're trying to find a
home and move into it by August 1st.
I will still have time for Python (it's in my contract) and I will
continue to lead Python's development. The other PythonLabs folks:
Fred Drake, Jeremy Hylton, Barry Warsaw and Tim Peters, are staying at
Zope, by the way.
But unfortunately, this move pretty much ends my involvement in Zope
3. I've signed a contributors agreement, but with the new job and my
Python work I don't expect to have much time for Zope. So this is
also a goodbye, of sorts. I've enjoyed working with many of you, Zope
3 developers, and I expect we'll run into each other at some future
Python event.
In the mean time, I'm here at OSCON with a busy schedule and limited
access to my email, and the following weeks I will be in transition,
so please be kind if I don't reply immediate when you write me.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
PS. guido@zope.com no longer works. Please use guido@python.org!
Prominently on python.org (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good times. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good times. (Score:5, Informative)
Twisted - a web/chat/anything-you-can-name server
Zope - Web Application/CMS type system
bittorrent - you know about that one
Red Hat uses Python in a lot of their scripts (I believe)
NumPy - used for scientific applications (replacing/augmenting Matlab, fortran, etc)
Karamba - KDE desktop eyecandy, written in C++ and scripted with python
and some really bad stuff I've written for my own amusement.
Off course there's more, but I did say off the top of my head and I don't want to cheat. It's really a nice clean language, that really lends itself to prototyping but still can make great apps.
Re:Good times. (Score:5, Informative)
There are a few more games that use Python... you might have heard of them:
Re:possible improvements to python? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:possible improvements to python? (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe some moderators with a clue will beat the grandparent post down now.
On topic - I've known Perl for awhile and am starting to code in Python... the syntax is certainly cleaner, but the docs certainly aren't. To put it kindly, they suck. Yes, if I was sufficiently motivated then I could contribute instead of just bitching, but: A) I'm not, B) I don't know nearly enough Python yet to do it right. I find Perl's documentation to be layed out in a much more rational and useful structure. Shrug.
Re:Good times. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a Python fan, but I doubt Python will ever surpass Perl -- especially not by adding a "more logical parse tree", since it already has a very simple, consistent, and logical parse tree whereas Perl has more of a parse forest. Python and Perl are just too different; they compete in many areas, but their real strengths are far enough apart to keep them both viable in each other's presence.
For info on what projects are being done in Python, see the lists at www.python.org (Success Stories [pythonology.org], Python Users [python.org], and Python Projects [python.org])).
Remarkable language, Python. Lovely plumage!
-Billy
Re:Good times. (Score:5, Informative)
Guido seems to disagree. [artima.com]
Now you might be splitting hairs and saying that "static" means known at compile time and "strong" means type errors are always detected, but in common parlance "strong typing" includes static typing. For the pedants, there's Sebesta:
This criterion is met by very few real-world languages. Most imperative and object-oriented languages include type coercion [python.org] which contradicts this property. It is interesting to note that future Python development is moving towards still stronger typing -- and, dare I say it -- functional-style constructs.
Of course, the pragmatic thing to do is to understand strong/weak typing not as binary, but as a continuum. In this case, Haskell is more strongly typed than Ada is more strongly typed than Python is more strongly typed than C++ is more strongly typed than C is more strongly typed than FORTRAN. It looks like Python 3.0 will be moving up the chain, however.
Re:Something fishy in his goodbye message (Score:1, Informative)
Quite secure, eh? Not according to Guido. (Score:4, Informative)
I'd like to point out a thread that I found a little while back on Python-Dev about Guido's decision to remove the rexec module (similar to the Java sandbox):
posting 1 [python.org]
and Guido's reply:
posting 2 [python.org]
A little bit further down that thread we find this:
posting 3 [python.org]
Since this last one is particularly telling, I will quote the relevant text for our impatient readers:
I think Guido's rationale for removing all these features will be widely misunderstood. Me channeling him: it is not that he believes that the architectures developed were inherently incapable of providing security. Instead, he feels that no "expert" for these matters has reviewed these architecture for flaws, and that the continuing maintenance of these things isn't going to happen.
If this understanding is correct, then any new approaches will likely suffer from the same fate. Unless somebody steps forward and says: "I am a security expert, and I guarantee that this and that feature is secure (in some documented sense)", then I think he will dislike any changes that mean to provide security.
So this not a matter of engineering but of authority. Somebody must take the blame, and Guido doesn't want to be that someone.
Disclaimer: I love python. However, I am working on a project that depends on rexec, and when I discovered that it was being removed, I was a little annoyed - especially at the reasoning behind the decision.
A shame (Score:5, Informative)
For those not familiar with Zope, it is a web application server written entirely in Python. It features an object database that, for example, lets you create an image object, and then call it from other code to automatically build your image tag based on the dimensions and title of the image stored in the object.
It's open source, developed both by the Zope community [zope.org] and the Zope corporation [zope.com]. There are at least two kick ass, open source content management systems built on top of Zope Corp's content management framework [zope.org] that I know of: Plone [plone.org] and Silva [infrae.nl]. There are a ton of add-on products [zope.org] that are downloadable too.
Zope does have a pretty steep learning curve, if you don't do stuff with "real" web applications (stuff that needs access control lists, user management, templating, etc) it might not be right for you, but it's great for bigger applications. Edd Dumbill talks in a recent blog entry about why Zope is worth learning [usefulinc.com] and DevShed (which runs on Zope) has a good overview [devshed.com].
Guido and Dan Farmer are both smart guys and I'm sure that we can expect good things.
Re:Good times. (Score:4, Informative)
Other guys are mentioning many projects, but I want to emphsize on three project, IMHO the most important to illustrate the power of Python:
Re:I don't think so... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Jumping WAY OT (Score:2, Informative)
list of new features at bash.cx [bash.cx]
(Please don't mod offtopic; The parent's author doesn't provide any way to contact him privately.)
Re:How instrumental was he to zope? (Score:1, Informative)