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GNU is Not Unix Programming IT Technology

Dotgnu Coding Competition 132

Honestly writes "Apparently DotGNU seems to be offering more than the 'warm fuzzy feeling' to its contributors. Somebody has funded about $4500 worth of prizes for code contributions. The developers have confirmed that the $$$ is in FSF Hands (good hands, I suppose). Here is the split up of prizes. It's almost strange to earn money writing open source. Especially when you're not even employed by dotgnu. Anyway all I can say is ,I like it. It's ideal for a grad student with lots of free time. But hardly anyone seems to have seen the Newsforge posts (except maybe me)."
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Dotgnu Coding Competition

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  • System.Windows.Forms (Score:1, Interesting)

    by rf0 ( 159958 ) <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Saturday August 30, 2003 @05:13PM (#6834913) Homepage
    You have to wonder how many hidden calls there are? I'm sure at least on major one will be hidden making this all nice and hard

    Rus
  • What about Mono (Score:4, Interesting)

    by joeykiller ( 119489 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @05:20PM (#6834950) Journal
    How does this differ from mono [go-mono.org]? It seems to me as the two projects are trying to achieve the same things. If that's the case, why have two projects at all? Why not merge the two efforts? I guess somebody here knows why.
  • pgp key? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by molo ( 94384 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @05:44PM (#6835062) Journal
    That message is signed with a pgp key. However, the key doesn't seem to be available on the public key servers, so how can we validate the message?

    If anyone has DSA key 0x7525EC32, please speak up.

    -molo
  • by leoaugust ( 665240 ) <leoaugust@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Saturday August 30, 2003 @06:00PM (#6835123) Journal

    Besides the chance of winning one of fifteen monetary prizes totalling US$ 4500

    Though it is good start that there is some money, but what comes to my mind is why so little ... 15 prizes averaging $ 300 each

    • that is about 8.5 hours of a coder worth $ 35 an hour
    • or 1 week (20 hours) of a grad students time ....
    • or 2 weeks (40 - 60 hours) of a coder in India's time
    • or 4 hours of a coder worth $ 75 an hour

    I wonder why doesn't some philanthropist wanting to donate to charity or some rich guy wanting to support Linux just give a couple of hundred thousand dollars, or may be a few millions, in prize money - so that it can support a critical mass of programmers that can devote a decent amount of time ..... rather than the tens of hours that are "economically feasible" now ....

    I know ... linux is not about money and all .... but still ... why couldn't it be ... everyone does not have to pay - just those people wanting it very badly have to pay while the rest get a free ride so that society as a whole benefits ...

    and seriously - this is not meant to be flamebait ...

  • License? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DickBreath ( 207180 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @06:50PM (#6835335) Homepage
    Can DotGNU be used by a developer who wants to put their own work into making a web based, for pay application, that is closed source, but using DotGNU's tools and platform?

    I love free software and open source, use them, advocate them, and even write some small time stuff and license it LGPL. During the day, I work for a company that develops and sells a software program.

    Here is a quote from the FAQ of DotGNU's Vision for WebServices [dotgnu.org] .

    Am I obligated to give away my webservice source code?

    You are not automatically obligated to distribute your source code, and you are certainly not obligated to just give it away. However, if you sell webservice services, then your customers will expect that you make them the "owner of the data" which the webservice uses, and depending on the exact circumstances that may indirectly give these customers a right to get the source code upon request. Here are the details:

    If you provide a webservice using a GPL'd webservice program (which you may have modified), then the "owner of the data" will be able to obtain the webservices programs under the terms of the GNU GPL, and this implies in particular that they will have a right to get the source code of the exact version of the program which you're using. The terms of the GNU GPL also require you to make a written promise to this "owner of the data" that you will be willing to provide the source code upon request. This ensures that the "owner of the data" will know about this right to the source code.

    The "owner of the data" is typically a paying customer, and the fact that the customer has a right to get the source code increases the value of the service you provide. Therefore you will be able to charge a higher price and/or close more sales.

    You can use the DotGNU development tools to program your own webservices (instead of just modifying the webservice programs which are distributed with DotGNU, or which others have made available under the GNU GPL) and then your are not required to make source code for these webservices available to the customer who is the "owner of the data". However, even in these situations where you are not required to make the source code available to your customers, we strongly encourage you to provide the source code to your customers under the terms of the GNU GPL anyway. We believe that this is ethically the right thing to do, and that it will be good for your business.

    Now I thought the GPL would not prevent this sort of thing? Now I'm really confused.

    I'm sure glad that GNU thinks they know what would be good for my employer's business and that my employer should charege more for their program (which is for schools).

    I thought I had a good solid understanding of the GPL [gnu.org]. I've taken the GPL quiz [gnu.org] , read the GPL Faq [gnu.org] before.

    I thought the GPL only applied to copying and distribution of a program or derrived work. Not to running it privately on my own web site.

    If I distribute my proprietary program, along side a DotGNU program / platform that executes it, I would not think that my program comes under the scope of the GPL.

    If I do NOT distribute my proprietary program, but merely run it at my site, and merely sell it as a service, then I was definitely under the impression that the GPL did not apply since no distribution takes place.

    Still, back to the case where I distribute my program, and a seperate DotGNU program to run it, then I would not think that my program comes under the scope of the GPL.

    Maybe I had better just stay completely away from DotGNU. Stick with Apache and various Java tools instead.

    Just a side note about the customer having their data he

  • Re:fp (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zCyl ( 14362 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @08:13PM (#6835651)
    Some days I think Slashdot needs a +10, Insightful...
  • by penguin7of9 ( 697383 ) on Saturday August 30, 2003 @10:33PM (#6836049)
    Maybe I had better just stay completely away from DotGNU. Stick with Apache and various Java tools instead.

    The Apache license is fine, but Java doesn't look like a big win to me. While Sun keeps proclaiming that the platform is open, in reality, large parts of the platform only exist as Sun proprietary code. Even if someone managed to reimplement them, Sun controls the compatibility tests and they can shoot down any implementation they don't like.

    At this point, I'd not get involved with any of Java, PNET, or .NET--the one thing all of them seem to agree on is that they want to entangle users in a web of intellectual property. Well, actually there is another thing that they seem to agree on: all of them want to run your code in a bloated runtime that's slow to start up. Mono seems to have the most straightforward license of the bunch, but even Mono is at risk of patent infringement claims from Microsoft.

    Just wait for the dust to settle and for Sun and Microsoft to come to their senses with their outrageous intellectual property claims. Until then, you have plenty of other options--there is nothing technically new in any of those platforms.
  • by DickBreath ( 207180 ) on Sunday August 31, 2003 @01:34PM (#6839292) Homepage
    Java doesn't look like a big win to me. While Sun keeps proclaiming that the platform is open, in reality, large parts of the platform only exist as Sun proprietary code

    Obviously, because I study the licenses before even proposing development, I would be considering such things.

    Open source implementations of Java are on the horizon. Today, commercial Java runtimes are available from multiple vendors, so you are not likely to have one single vendor treat you badly.

    It is not impossible that Sun could lose control of the standard once multiple mature Java implementations are around. What the rest of the industry does could become a de facto standard. Sort of how the PC architecture hasn't been dictated by IBM for a very long time. Or how modem command sets were no longer dictaged by Hayes. I'm sure there are other examples.

    So whether Sun sets the standards in practice or not (in the event of multiple mature open source implementations) would really depend on how good the standards are, and on how nicely they play.


    Java doesn't look like a big win to me. While Sun keeps proclaiming that the platform is open, in reality, large parts of the platform only exist as Sun proprietary code

    It has the drawback you point out. It also is not as mature in some sense as Java. If the evolution of Mono fits my schedule, it might be the thing to use.
  • by bizcoach ( 640439 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2003 @11:11AM (#6850387) Homepage
    No, you weren't involved in any of the three attempts to establish cooperation
    with Mono.

    The first attempt was made by the DotGNU coreteam and the
    Free Software Foundation, privately, immediately after the existence of the
    Mono project had become public knowledge (that was in early July 2001).

    You must be referring to the second of these attepts, which was not initiated
    by the DotGNU project but by a third party (Martin Coxall)... making Mono part
    of DotGNU was his idea, not ours... both Miguel (the Mono project leader) and
    I posted in the thread which resulted from this proposal, and I got upset about some
    of Miguel's comments, but in retrospect I think it's very understandable that
    the Mono folks were not interested in talking about cooperation in the context
    of such a proposal.

    In April 2002, we made a third attempt to establish cooperation with Mono.
    This attempt was much more promising than the earlier two, and it has involved
    offering a sizeable chunk of pnetlib I18N code to Mono under the X11 license,
    which they have integrated into their class library.

    DotGNU is still open to discussing any mutually beneficial ways of cooperation.
    For example, some parts of the class library could be developed jointly, using
    a neutral cvs server. We have proposed this to the Mono project multiple
    times, so far it seems that the Mono folks are not interested in this kind of
    cooperation. The I18N code which was integrated into the Mono libs forked
    immediately, so that doesn't count as a mutually beneficial form of
    cooperation.

    Your claim about DotGNU Portable.NET being "at risk of copyright infringement
    claims" is totally false. Our procedures have been carefully checked and
    declared ok by a competent lawyer (Eben Moglen, professor of law and legal
    history at Columbia Law School). I do know however what discussion you
    probably remember. Here is how it went: I asked whether Mono has proper
    procedures for reverse engineering (in hindsight I regret having asked
    this question publicly, I now think it would have been much more appropriate
    to ask this kind of question privately), and Miguel replied that the Mono
    project doesn't have the resources for that, and he added a verbal attack
    against the procedures used by Rhys in the early days of the Portable.NET
    project. You really shouldn't be concerned about what Miguel wrote about
    Portable.NET in that message. First of all, reverse engineering for purposes
    of interoperability is always legal in the country where that work was done.
    (EULA clauses that forbid it are legally null and void in that country.)
    Secondly, the early versions of Portable.NET achieved interoperability in a
    manner that (in the judgement of Eben Moglen) would not have violated the terms
    of the anti-reverse-engineering clause even if that clause wasn't irrelevant
    anyway. (We had not informed Miguel about the details. Why should we? He
    never asked.) Thirdly, the code to which these concerns applied has long since
    been rewritten for technical reasons anyway.

    Nota bene, both projects, Mono and Portable.NET, want to be compatible with
    much more than just with what is described in the ECMA specs. So there is
    reason to be careful. I can assure you that I've been working hard behind the
    scenes of the DotGNU project to make sure that we're as careful as we
    reasonably can be.

    I don't know what you mean with the claim "there used to be a page around on
    the DotGNU website (not sure if it's still there) badmouthing Mono." I
    maintain the DotGNU website and I'm sure that we have never had any such
    page. The DotGNU website moved to the Savannah CVS system on July 10, 2001
    and all versions of all website files since then can still be reviewed at
    http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/projec ts/d otgnu/?cvsroot=www.gnu.org
    Since that website move was just one day after the initial public announcement
    of the Mono project, if your claim was true, the evidence should be there. I
    challenge you to check your claim against the available public record.

    Greetings,
    Norbert.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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