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Windows 98SE emulated on Pocket PC 151

Posted by timothy
from the and-then-run-pearpc dept.
David Horn writes "PocketGamer is carrying a story on the successful emulation of Windows 95 and Windows 98SE on the Pocket PC. This was made possible by a Pocket PC port of Bochs, a DOS emulator. If you're keen to try this yourself, you'll need a minimum of a 256MB memory card (or stream the image over a wireless network) and you'll need a program like Nyditot Virtual Display to increase your screen resolution. Oh, yes, and you'll also need the emulator. You can find more information and a selection of screenshots here. Following the porting of a full speed Playstation emulator and Pocket Quake, this really raises the bar for what the Pocket PC is capable of."
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Windows 98SE emulated on Pocket PC

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  • Limitations (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Raindance (680694) * <johnsonmx@@@gmail...com> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:52PM (#9226070) Homepage Journal
    This is a very cool project.

    Current limitations seem to include lack of DirectX support but, as Pocket Quake was ported, perhaps there's some OpenGL framework for the Pocket PC that wouldn't be too difficult to link up with this Windows 98 emulation.

    So, it's not perfect for 'playing any PC game' yet, but there's hope.

    RD
  • Windows XP (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'll stick to emulating Windows XP on my full size laptop, thanks.
  • Usefull ? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dozix007 (690662) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:54PM (#9226077)
    Is a Windows 95/98 port to the PocketPC a very usefull tool ? Win. 95/98 is designed to be usefull and (somewhat) functional for a desktop enviroment. The Pocket PC version of Windows is a far more usefull tool. It have features built in that PocketPCs are used for, and it does not drag down your resources nearly as much as 98/95.
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:2, Insightful)

      Why do this? Like so many of these very cool geek projects, they do it because they can.

      Jeff
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by robslimo (587196)
      I'm with you. Maybe my imagination is just failing me today, but I couldn't think of a reason, other than to say "Hey, look at this!" to do this.

      Beside, I'm pretty sure you can't buy a legal copy of 96/98/ME and, since a windows license is not transferable to another machine (I think), there may not be a legal way to run old Windows on a Pocket PC.

      • Re:Usefull ? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jpmkm (160526)
        If you buy a full retail version of Windows then you can do whatever the hell you want with it. It is not tied to any particular machine. However, OEM versions of Windows that come installed on computers are usually tied to whatever computer it was originally installed on. Although Microsoft isn't directly producing and selling windows 95/98/ME anymore, I believe there are still places that have legal copies for sale. There are certainly many many copies that people bought back in the day but they are n
      • There is no legal basis for a windows license not being transferable to another computer whatsoever in most countries.
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Dan East (318230) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:15PM (#9226174) Homepage Journal
      The article contains several misleading statements. Bochs is not a Windows 98 emulator (nor is it a DOS emulator). It is an x86 emulator. Running Windows 98 within the emulator is just a way of showing off what it can do. Much better than boring VGA text mode screenshots of DOS, which would not have gotten mention here at SlashDot.

      Dan East
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jpmkm (160526) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:15PM (#9226175) Homepage
      Jesus christ, dude. Is there a use to ANY hobby? Is there a use to collecting stamps? I sure can't think of any. Is there a purpose to playing miniature golf? People playing mini golf certainly are not helping to cure cancer or fight drug abuse. Why do people play miniature golf? BECAUSE THEY FUCKING WANT TO. God damn. Why fucking do anything? Just because you do not find something useful or entertaining or beneficial DOES NOT mean that it is not useful or entertaining or beneficial to everyone else. Grow up.
      • Re:Usefull ? (Score:1, Offtopic)

        by bonch (38532)
        FUCK YEAH
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by SoLoatWork (187259)
      Why do posts like this always come up when a neat hack is featured? How many times does it have to be said? Stuff like this isn't out there to be "useful", it's out there for people like me who think its just cool. Nothing more, nothing less.

    • While I might be similarly inclined to question the value of emulating Win9x on PocketPCs, I must admit that such an emulation is more useful than, oh, I don't know . . . installing Linux on a dead badger [slashdot.org].
    • Re:Usefull ? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by NanoGator (522640)
      "Is a Windows 95/98 port to the PocketPC a very usefull tool ?"

      Not sure about the tool part, but I really would enjoy playing a bunch of my old DOS'ish games on it like the Space Quest series. Also, it'd be slick if I could run Photoshop on a handheld unit with a stylus. Though I ache for more pixels in the display.

      The question shouldn't be "is it useful", but rather, "how can it be useful". More interesting results that way.
  • by 42forty-two42 (532340) <bdonlan@gm a i l . com> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:54PM (#9226079) Homepage Journal
    There seems to have been a slight problem with the database.
    Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

    An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

    I feel sorry for the technical staff. I thought we were supposed to be against spamming?
    • gah.. its already down
    • Go figure. I was just going to visit the site (I have it bookmarked), and that's what I see. I thought at first that the site was just down...then I see the "too many connections" part. You can guess where I went next. >_

      I haven't seen the post yet (for obvious reasons), but I wonder what the emulated processor speed is, and whether the system can be used to run plain old DOS (so I can play those old games that PocketDOS still seems to have issues with).
    • A link from slash dot = site crash ... that's just funny.
      • You must be new.
        • by pdbaby (609052) on Sunday May 23, 2004 @12:01AM (#9227944)
          I've never understood how the slashdot effect works: virtually nobody seems to rtfa, so the web traffic generated should be virtually null...

          Unless, of course, people open the site on general principle -- and then close it?
          • Re:Slashspammed? (Score:2, Interesting)

            by ThomaMelas (631856)
            Well it's pretty simple. I've seen figures that put slashdot at 15 million or so readers at any given time. If 1% read the article, we're talking about 150,000 hits at one time. But I think the figure is closer to 4 or 5 % reading the articles. So that is three quarters of a million hits within 20 seconds. That's a pretty good DDOS attack. God help the site that has a story intresting enough for 50% of the readers to read the story.

      • And the other poster is right, we see it often enough. Comments often get modded up if they point to a mirror.

    • D'oh! I've got just over 11000 error emails in my Inbox.

      The server is still up and running - if you refresh it will load.
  • by smr2x (266420) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:56PM (#9226087) Homepage
    I think the point of this may be just because you can... Not every little hack has to have a purpose. I'm impressed just because it's cool to have been done.
    • Exactly, today while watching the FA Cup final in England I mentally emulated a professional soccer player. In a dazzling 10 minute spell I scored a record six goals, 5 were wonder strikes and 1 was a simple tap in. Unfortuately my emulation ultimately proved to be worthless as the manc scum won 3-0 anyway.
  • by Henrik S. Hansen (775975) <hsh@member.fsf.org> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:59PM (#9226099) Homepage
    Bochs [sourceforge.net] (link in article is wrong!) is not a DOS emulator!

    From the website:

    Bochs is a highly portable open source IA-32 (x86) PC emulator written in C++, that runs on most popular platforms. It includes emulation of the Intel x86 CPU, common I/O devices, and a custom BIOS.

  • by pesc (147035)
    This was made possible by a Pocket PC port of Bochs, a DOS emulator.

    Not quite. Bochs [sourceforge.net] is a IA-32 (x86) emulator that allows other architectures (such as ARM commonly used in handheld devices) to emulate a IA-32 chip.
  • Dos emulator?? Isn't that understating things a bit?

    Bochs homepage [sourceforge.net]
    • Bochs is a highly portable open source IA-32 (x86) PC emulator written in C++, that runs on most popular platforms. It includes emulation of the Intel x86 CPU, common I/O devices, and a custom BIOS. Currently, Bochs can be compiled to emulate a 386, 486, Pentium, Pentium Pro or AMD64 CPU, including optional MMX, SSE, SSE2 and 3DNow instructions
  • nice tour de force (Score:4, Interesting)

    by InternationalCow (681980) <mauricevansteensel&mac,com> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:03PM (#9226118) Journal
    But then I am using one OS I do not like to run another one that I do not like at all :) Seriously, I would have more use for a nice X windows client so I could remotely connect to my OSX and Solaris boxes at work. That would be really useful.
    • by Bastian (66383) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:26PM (#9226235)
      What you're probably really looking for is an X Server (X clients are the applications that use X to display graphics).

      A google search for "X Server PocketPC" gives me this site [rainer-keuchel.de], which lists a WinCE port of a XFree86.

      Alternatively, you could use a VNC [utah.edu], which would be more useful for OS X if you were wanting access to Aqua applications, too.

      (No clue how well either of these work; I'm a PalmOS guy.)
    • I run a WinCE handheld (a damn old one too, HP Jornada 680) with a wifi connection and the TermServer client - runs pretty nice too. Win2003Server on a 640x240 touch screen is almost usable on a regular fashion, and the 75% sized real keyboard is good enough for interaction with the machine (sucks for touchtyping, but still better than nothing.) It is like having an instant on baby laptop with an 8 hour battery and a P4/2.4GHz CPU and a Gig of RAM and a tiny screen, fold up and fit in my lab coat pocket.
    • Windows 98SE is the best of the Wintendo series. I emulate it in VirtualPC on my Powerbook to run some of the old DOS/Wintendo games I have lying around.
  • by bsDaemon (87307)
    Windows 98 is one of the worst "operating systems" ever. Running it nativily is sure to get you beaten up by the /. Pogramm Action Committee. But emulating it is suddenly cool enough for a Slashdot headline?

    Of course, /. also posts every time someone gets Linux to do anything remotly approaching almost sorta but not quite entirely unlike working on anything that has electricity pluged into it, so...
  • by JUSTONEMORELATTE (584508) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:10PM (#9226146) Homepage
    So you've got win98 running on it now? Wow, with the functionality you just added to your device, I've just got one word for you:

    PWN3D!!!1!

  • by Prod_Deity (686460) <666...redneck...666@@@gmail...com> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:11PM (#9226158)
    a mini Blue Screen Of Death.
  • Thanks to Miracle and ceasar54 for writing in with the news that a member has got both Windows 95 and Windows 98 SE running on his Asus PPC.

    This was made possible by a Pocket PC port of Bochs, by Mamaich, who has also ported DosBox, a "program similar to Bochs but it's a lot faster and only emulates DOS". Sadly, the author tried and failed to get WarLords II working on both these versions, but I'm sure time will tell!

    If you're keen to try this on your own Pocket PC, you'll need a minimum of a 256MB memory
  • by sentientbeing (688713) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:12PM (#9226163)
    ..every time it BSODs its easier to throw across the room and stamp on than a dekstop..!
  • by cpu_fusion (705735) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:14PM (#9226172)
    ... must be running on a PocketPC. (... notes MySQL error...)
  • by pangel83 (598985) * on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:15PM (#9226176) Homepage
    And here you go for screenshots: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tzer-jen/zbochs/
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It's the PC that was emulated - not the operating system.
  • Looks like the PocketGamer Site might be hosted on a Pocket PC as well... 38 Comments and it's already down!
  • by pantherace (165052) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:22PM (#9226210)
    And had quake running very rapidly after it was released.

    Bochs [killefiz.de] on Zaurus Software Index.

    I ran bochs (but not windows, not a large enough flash card at the time). It was slow (hey, no suprise there), & I wouldn't want to run windows, but it was possible, and didn't need some hack like increasing screen resolution (something sdl handled). Of course, with the new Zauruses, you wouldn't have to increase the resolution, either via OS hacks, or SDL scaling.

  • SCREENSHOT MIRROR (Score:5, Informative)

    by peterprior (319967) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:23PM (#9226218)
    Mirror of the screenshots here [aber.ac.uk]

    They are actual size, due to small pocketpc screen I presume..
  • "Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser." They're not making it any easier on themselves.
  • uhhh (Score:5, Informative)

    by ShadowRage (678728) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @04:36PM (#9226268) Homepage Journal
    Pocket PC port of Bochs, a DOS emulator.

    uhhh, dont you mean x86 emulator?
    bochs can handle more than just dos.
  • I can't even get Bochs to run Win98 acceptably on a G3 900 iBook...it always hangs on boot...

    On the other hand, Bochs emulates the x86 so run whatever PC OS you want...the little Linux demo they include works great on my iBook although it's so stripped down, it doesn't do much other than ls and mkdir and stuff like that...
  • ...on a full-sized display, now we get to use it in blazing 240x320 QVGA on a 200 MHz machine and no keyboard. Woohoo!

    "Because it can be done" is actually a great reason only about 4% of the time it gets used.


  • I can about play Links (ORIGINAL) on my 1.7 ghz machine. I successfully set up a Win95 virtual drive but why bother? I have some DOS stuff I run command line sometimes.
  • Seriously.

    Cell phone with open hardware platform, 256MB RAM, 20GB HDD, Equiv to 500 Mhz PIII. External VGA Port, USB, and WiFi. As long as it would fit in my pocket, it could handle EVERY business function I'd need it for and I'd never be dependant on internet access for Word and Excel Docs. Get to work, plug in monitor and keyboard/mouse. Use the small screen out in the field.

    It's going to suck the first time I accidentally leave a computer in the wash, though.
  • ... I really wish I'd cleaned that HTML up!
  • On the Linux issue (Score:3, Informative)

    by enterpriserx (777103) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @06:04PM (#9226674)
    Actually you can already run Linux on your favourite Pocket PCs (if there is such a thing), the hp/compaq iPAQs, generally the older Compaq H3600, H3800 and H3900 series accept it.

    Unfortunately some of these (there are several) projects seem to be defunct, in any case I fail to see the reason to convert a perfectly normal PPC to a crippled handheld running linux with applications not designed for it. If you need linux, I'd go for the Sharp Zaurus, sweet machines albeit underpowered, and frankly, not NEARLY as polished.

    Windows 98 emulation on run-of-the-mill PPCs such as iPAQ 3950, Toshiba e740 or Dell Axim 3xi is a bit impractical however in my opinion, since
    1) low resolution
    2) low functionality
    3) too slow
    4) did I mention low functionality?
    5) expensive memory expansion (Secure Digital cards only for most iPAQs, and Compact flash for Toshiba/Dells)

    I applaud the technical level at which this experiment was taken, but like the linux hacks, this is a waste of time on a practical level, unless you need to run Solitaire desktop edition...

    To elaborate on speed, for those not familiar with the Pocket PC operating system (Windows Pocket PC 2002 and WMobile 2003), both are platforms based on Windows CE, 2003 being on CE.NET 4.2 and 2002 on CE 3.0; in short, 2003 is optimized for the Xscale CPUs, currently the top rated ARM-compatible cpus for handhelds, 2002 is not. Running Windows 98 in emulation mode would be a pain in 2003, much less in 2002, my 3950(PXA250, initial xscale cpu) can handle the TI-89 emulator, barely, so I'd hate to see what it would do with Windows. (gross generalization). Of course, there are faster models out there with better CPUs, PXA255 (Xscale with double membus), PXA262 (PXA255 with NAND mem 32mb) and PXA270 which hits up to 600mhz so far...In any case, to reiterate, praises to the developers
  • Okay, the heat death of the universe might occur before it loaded, but seeing the Mac OS X desktop appear on a palmtop would be way cool.

    • Eh, Bochs is a PC-targeted emulator, if you had taken care to read the posts above you'd know that Bochs emulates an x86 CPU.

      Macintosh machines run non x86 cpus, such as the G3, G4 or G5 PowerPCs (Motorola and IBM respectively), in any case the differing architectures prevent this from working on the Bochs emulator, on the other hand, any other such emulation would be out of reach because of the requirements for emulation, I mean old macs can't run OS X, much less a 400mhz PDA...

      You can always try PearPC
  • How about running OS X on PearPC in that 98 emluation? It could happen if you got a 4GB Multimedia Card...
  • ...This was made possible by a Pocket PC port of Bochs, a DOS emulator...
    Sorry, but last I remember, wasn't Bochs an x86 emulator, not a DOS emulator?
    Not that you can't run DOS on Bochs, but just saying, that's not really what it is.
  • Greeeeat,

    I will be able to take the blue screen of death whenever I go... My pocket PC will never shut down properly and I will be able to read my paper in the WINDOWS 98 is CLOSING THE SYSTEM light...

    Sometimes, one should not read the Sunday morning news until the hang-over is gone...

  • by n17ikh (750948)
    Now I can use my PocketPC to run Folding@Home. Sure, it probably won't make deadlines but every little bit brings us one step closer to curing cancer, right? And it'll give me an excuse to mess with that damn useless thing again.
  • I remember looking at a friends pocket pc back in the late 90's and thinking.. "Wow" this is really cool, I can't seem to crash it, its seems reasonably speedy, its got real programs AND it fits on this tiny little thing!.. When can I buy this to run on my home computer? I sort of have a regret that MS didn't produce versions of Win95 Win98 without legacy support. Would have made it smaller/faster/more stable - Like Pocket PC?
  • It's a PC emulator.

    You cannot run Linux on DOS.
  • What would be really amusing (and cute too I might add) would be to see a Happy Mac boot-up icon on a Pocket PC (is everyone here too young to remember that PPC stands for Power PC? 15 and under?).
  • ....emulate a piece of junk like any of the Win9x family on anything? That technology is best forgotten, it was a classic example of Sir Bill's gross incompetence that brought it into existence in the first place.
    • Why?

      Many reasons.

      For example, at work, we happen to have a piece of software that simply talks to a truck engine management computer. Very basic, all it has to do is read the serial port and list what is wrong with the truck.

      The code is proprietry, and requires windows of some description (98/2k/XP) to work.

      Now, I've had no use for a pocket PC before, but if they're reasonably inexpensive, and have some way of driving a serial port, it would be great to use for this purpose.

      At the moment, our mai

      • Ah, the trap of proprietary software. In those instances, you may well have no choice, as I must agree. But if you had the choice, or the source, it would surely be better to use the native OS of whatever device you fancied using.

        But, in other circumstances, it makes little sense to do anything with an unsupported OS that never was any good anyway, although if it is all you have got, it may be slightly better than nothing.

        It sounds like your guys really need these ruggedised things the military used to use,

        • Yeah, unfortunately, in this case, there is NO CHOICE.

          The software is from Caterpillar, and plugs into their mining trucks, to tell the mechanic what is wrong with the truck.

          There apparently is a Java or WinCE version of the software in development, but at the moment a Win95/98 device is the lowest thing it will run on.

          In this case, Win98's deficiencies aren't a huge problem - no network connection, no support applications, etc.... its just a dumb serial application... couldn't give a shit if the OS i

          • Ah, yes maybe you do have one place where Win98 is OK. No net connection, so no security problems..... In any case you have no choice for now.

            I can visualise there being a market for a versatile device which might be ideal here, something like a PC, with small screen and keyboard, all built into a yellow unbreakable case like they use for other testgear, with a nice big CF card, so it can be a PC, PDA or something else, according to which OS you load. It would want to hang on a belt, round your neck, or hav

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