Microsoft Eases "Shared Source" Restrictions 252
An anonymous reader writes "In an effort to help device makers differentiate their products and compete more vigorously with Linux,
Microsoft is eliminating
major restrictions on the use of its "shared source" license for the
Windows CE operating system. The change, which accompanies the impending
full release of Windows CE 5.0, will counter competition from Linux
and is likely to expand Microsoft's slice of the roughly $1B embedded OS
market pie. Specifically, the new version of the Win CE Shared Source
license will, for the first time, enable developers anywhere in the
world to include modified Windows CE code within commercial products
without having to sublicense the modifications back to Microsoft.
Interestingly, the revised Shared Source terms are reminiscent of the BSD open source license, which permits the development of proprietary derivatives that need not be shared with the community, in contrast to the GPL, which obligates developers to make their modifications available to the public."
Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
While I have never used Linux on a PDA (and probably won't) I can't imagine having the claim that $995 for development fees (after the trial period) is "inexpensive" especially when this is an obvious attempt to compete with Linux in the PDA market.
Just because its source is available (Score:5, Insightful)
"More like..." (Score:4, Insightful)
However don't forget to read the fine print.
Just a little bit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just because its source is available (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahh, but see, that's coming from someone immersed in the world of OSS. When you are immersed in a Windows world and used to paying high development and licensing fees this would seem like a Godsend.
People see the benefits of Linux as it being free. They don't always see the "more eyes/better code" side.
Greed is a much more powerful tool.
License terms not published yet (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't we wait with discussing this until the actual license text is available, so that we can see what the article is talking about?
Maybe, as the "the revised Shared Source terms are reminiscent of the BSD open source license" remark in the article seems to indicate, this is actually a free software / open source license. Maybe there are still some unacceptable strings attached. How are we supposed to think something good or bad about the new license just based on this article which is obviously written by someone who is not very familar with software licenses. (The article says about the GPL that it "obligates developers to make their modifications available to the public." That is incorrect. If you distribute a GPL-licensed program to someone, you have to make sure that the recipient can get the source code. You are however not required to make modifications available to the public. In practice, modifications are very often made available to the public, but this is an important distinction to keep in mind, especially when thinking about privacy issues, and also when thinking about commercial GPL licensing of software packages for the expected number of customers is small [freestrategy.info]).
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just Linux move (Score:4, Insightful)
PalmOS has been another stable hand-held system that amateurs can actually write software for as well.
Though, I must sheepishly admit I had problems with a free PalmOS compiler I downloaded a year or two ago.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, you could use QT and pay if they charge (I don't know) but you could also roll your own and end up distributing it for free if you wished.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah sure you can make an ncurses app, but what if you want it to integrate nicely?
So yeah you have some choice but for a commercial app I'd still go with commercial QTopia as would anyone with a bit of common sense..
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
compete? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do device makers need to compete with Linux? Device makers need to be able to develop software that works on both for the biggest market share.
um, yeah, except that's not true (Score:5, Insightful)
It's an irony. Microsoft counters the GPL with an even less restrictive license.
Despite the /. summary, the new license isn't really BSD-like. It's certainly a lot more relaxed, but it doesn't let you take the original code and do whatever you want with it. This is all about letting companies ship modified *binary* versions -- there's no way, for example, to make a complete fork.
Were this truly a BSD-style license, it'd be possible to take the code base and dump it wholesale into Wine, or a Wine-CE -- enabling perfect WinCE compatibility on the Zaurus, or even on Linux desktop systems. How much you want to bet that's not possible?
Plus, aren't there still per-copy license fees? Or has Microsoft already done the IE thing and dropped that to compete?
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't think that fully supported development kit for 995$ is cheap? It cost less than red hat ES 3. Development tool kits target production environments and 995$ is not a lot of money when it comes down to it. Especially since Windows CE is the thing on PDAs (Linux support is growing but slowly).
Re:License terms not published yet (Score:1, Insightful)
This is correct, however, you also cannot restrict what the recipient can do with that source code. If they wish to redistribute it, fine.
This is also an important distinction to keep in mind, in that you really do not have control of where your source goes after it leaves your hands. This is why most GPL'd code is made available to the public, really. It's because you might as well, since anybody who gets your program's source can release it to anybody they like anyway, and you cannot place any actual restrictions on them not to do so.
Security concerns (Score:3, Insightful)
First, by making the source available to a limited audience for cost, dedicated crackers can get thier hands on it (illegally) but legitimate developers can't without paying big bucks. It's good to know only law-breaking coders will be looking for secrity vulnerabilities.
Second, by allowing third parties to modify the source without requiring peer review (either by MS or by the community), they are likely to introduce new bugs. At least with the Linux kernel, there's a hell of a lot of review before changes are integrated into the mainline. Forks also frequently get merged back into the mainline. Now there will be hundreds of modified WinCE varients, none of which getting peer reviewed or integrated into the trunk, and who knows how MS will handle distribution of security updastes to modified WinCE variants.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a very nice business move by msft and seems to make life for other much easier.
Smart move, actually (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft is definitely listening to their customers here. The customers want access to source so they can make modifications, but without being forced to release their improvements to others.
Now the interesting thing will be to watch Sun's response. If Microsoft yet again beats Sun, will it force Sun's hand to tip their cards more? Pass me the popcorn, this should be interesting.
Re:"Interestingly"? (Score:5, Insightful)
"It is surprising that MS is scared enough of Linux and the open-source/free software movement to be releasing some of their source code while their market share is still so ridiculously high."
Perhaps because they are losing mindshare amongst developers? This affects the long term but in a very dramatic way.
Re:M$ adopting Linux features (Score:3, Insightful)
GNOME and KDE. Check.
Access NULL pointers to decrease stability
I hope you're not implying that dereferncing NULL pointers is something that happens exclusively at Microsoft. But either way, this happens frequently enough with free software. Check.
Program major security holes into common apps like xterm
Is ssh good enough for you? Check.
I Bet (Score:4, Insightful)
So what's to say 3 years from now they don't just come out with a new "Windows Lite" which is completely incompatable with WinCE and start pressuring hardware manufacturers to switch over?
So Microsoft is taking their embedded OS... (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, that makes a lot of sense from their perspective, but are we supposed to be impressed by this or something?
It's Linux that dunnit... (Score:3, Insightful)
It is significant that Microsoft seems to be losing the lead on where things are going now. They are recting to Linux rather than leading the IT market.
I know they are doing this to keep Linux out and to try and get people hooked on XP - but it does not work like that any more. I have just replaced a customer's Outlook Express with Mozilla's Thunderbird - the transission went smoothly - and although the (non technical) person has never used Thunderbird before the training took about two minutes!
I think these strategic decisions of Microsoft are a turning point. Microsoft cannot kill Linux. If they want to keep their current markets they are learning that they need to do it on Linux's terms - ie - give the customer reliable cheap working software that does not involve paying a big "Microsoft Tax".
I think we have seen the value of Microsoft's software, and it's revenue, take a downward turn. I am expecting the trend to continue.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:3, Insightful)
You complain about the $995 fee and say, well, on Linux you could just roll your own toolkit?
It would take monts or years and a "mobhord" of developers to correctly do that, but at least you save the $995 fee for the kit.
Call it a hunch, but I am willing to wager that you don't design and build PDA's for a living?
Re:Microsoft and GPL (Score:4, Insightful)
As the owner of the copywrite of their code, they could do this even if they released it under the GPL.
What they would not be able to do if they GPLed a version of thier code is to fold contributions back into thier non-GPL versions.
RTFGPL (Score:4, Insightful)
Sigh. No it doesn't. It requires that source code for the binaries be distributed with the binaries. There's no obligation to release anything to the general public.
Like going to Dr. Kevorkian for a cold.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like we're not going to get anything good out of using Microsoft's code.
Paranoid? Look at it this way: would you put some sort of rights to your companies code in the hands of Microsoft? Do you trust them that much?
Me neither.
Re:License terms not published yet (Score:3, Insightful)
The most important word here is if. You are under no obligation to distribute any GPL program at all. Also you are under no obligation to make the source available to to anyone other than a party you have supplied the binary to. The specific point is that binary only distribution is forbidden.
You are however not required to make modifications available to the public. In practice, modifications are very often made available to the public,
The reason for this is that there advantages in doing so. In that making the software widely available increases the chance of bug fixes and other improvements.
especially when thinking about privacy issues,
The only possible privacy issues would be the identity of the programmers. GPL code does not "taint" data, which is not always the case with proprietary software.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, not everybody who can write code has the ability of doing so in an commercial environment. People can perfectly have a completely different way of earning money, and may not wish to do programming professionally to avoid killing their hobby.
And anyway, this is free software we're talking about. I wouldn't write my own toolkit, I'd look at existing ones and choose the one that'd be easier to port to the required architecture.
Is it a conspiracy?? (Score:1, Insightful)
http://www.linuxdevices.com/
and
http://www.w
??!?
What is this you can't beat them join them?
Can't beat them be them?
What the hell is going on with these 2 websites and why are they almost exactly the same freaking thing?
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:2, Insightful)
sorry, but MS likes to think that but Palm OS still outnumbers it 3 to 1. The sexiest PDA's run palmOS (sony Clie) and up until just recently it was the only thing available for integrated PDA+PHONE (which still suck, but are starting to get better...)
Microsoft has been playing catch-up to palmOS for years and this new Linux thing is starting to nudge it's way in further pissing them off.
Microsoft is second fiddle in the world of consumer embedded systems and they are a distant fourth in commercial and industrial embedded... behind DOS!
$995 is not for supported version. I guarentee they they will not answer my phone calls about it for free (um that is what "supported" means... I don't know what ms has you believeing) $995 is for your right to install it and NOTHNIG MORE.
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:5, Insightful)
$995 is cheap -- unless its per unit or recurring (Score:2, Insightful)
Think about it.
Re:um, yeah, except that's not true (Score:3, Insightful)
It's certainly a lot more relaxed, but it doesn't let you take the original code and do whatever you want with it.
Correct. Of utmost relevence is the fact that you cannot take "Shared Source" code, and share the source with your friends.
Exactly (Score:4, Insightful)
This new MS shared source thing gives you 25% of Windows CE, tells you you can do whatever you like with the resulting binaries, and asks only for an eternal monetary tithing for every unit you sell containing these binaries.
It would be reasonable to say these are different kinds of restrictions. It would probably not be reasonable to call the MS thing less restrictive.
Not bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:lines of code (Score:2, Insightful)
not many. so the number of lines of code that are actually compiled in are most likely signifigantly less than CE's 2.5 million.
Re:The user's perspective. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Inexpensive and competing with Linux? Nah. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're right, that's not their goal. Their goal is to make as much money as possible. By charging $995 (guided by their first goal), they are also, as a side-effect, raising an artificial barrier to entry for WinCE developers.
Additionally, one of the guiding philosophical ideals at MS is that MS wants to own and control as much as possible--both their own inventions, standards and technologies and the inventions, standards and technologies of others (historically, virtually every MS product was originally created by people outside of MS, and consider their "embrace and extend" of open standards, for example). By placing a large price tag on a product whose analog you get bundled with Linux and MacOS X, they are reminding you that *they* own it. By doing that, they help make sure it's natural for you to think that MS should own and control as much as they can acquire, and worse, to think that it's a *good* thing.