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Are Betas Taking On Lives of Their Own? 270

Ant writes "CNET News.com's Paul Festa thinks the final stage of software development, beta versions, are taking on a life of their own, as companies tinker endlessly with their products in public according to a recent article. Google is one of the companies that keep using "beta" term for years for its products."
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Are Betas Taking On Lives of Their Own?

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  • GMail (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 4Lancer.net ( 858900 ) <slashdot&4lancer,net> on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:16AM (#11657790) Homepage
    GMail is still "beta" yet I haven't seen in forever any new changes. Also, I don't think they would have released so many invites if they were still seriously working on it. You don't let that huge of a population use something that is truly still "beta."
  • by NoSCO ( 858498 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:29AM (#11657862) Homepage Journal
    I am a software developer in my spare time, and I try wherever possible to stick to my defined release guidelines, e.g. 2 or 3 pre-alpha releases (usually for other people to read the code and make some suggestions), then a true alpha release that should mostly work for all platforms. That will be out for about a month all the while making improvements for the upcoming beta release. I will generally make 2 beta releases (bar any major bugs/security problems!) and then release version 1.0. The whole process from pre-alpha to v1.0 may take up to 6 months, but certainly not years or decades, in the case of ICQ/Google etc.
  • Re:GMail (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rincebrain ( 776480 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:31AM (#11657867) Homepage
    The backend of GMail is Google's web search/index/whatever software, and you know damn well that's being upgraded whenever they can.

    Just a thought.
  • by 2078 ( 729888 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:31AM (#11657870) Homepage
    I think it's the easiest way of having a no/ limited responsibility associated with a product. If anything goes wrong, you can't complain because after all the software/ site is in beta and you "willingly" decided to become "testers".

    Google could go ahead and wipe off the Gmail slate today saying it'll now be shut off for a month while we work on it and reopen afresh a month when anyone can take up user names on a first-come-first-serve basis like any other email site - all because they've used the "beta" tag so far. The fact that it would be a disastrous PR exercise withstanding.

    Though I guess any of the free (and many paid as well) could shut shop anyday if they decided to - actually reading the Terms and Conditions of any site is an indicator enough.

    The beta tag helps them get the best of both worlds as I see it - make money off the product/ feature while they refine it, and still absolve themselves off a lot of blame.

  • Mac OS X 10.0 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by istewart ( 463887 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:34AM (#11657882)
    Anybody who lived through it will know what I'm talking about. I ran Public Beta as my primary OS from its introduction till the 10.0 release, and for $100 I didn't get much of an improvement.

    All has been forgiven since then, though. :)
  • Re:GMail (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BagOBones ( 574735 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:37AM (#11657895)
    I have only been using it for about 6 months and in that time the only change I have seen is that the contact manager became much more detailed. Allowing more than one address per contact as well as several custom fields.

    They also added pop3 support.

    Define forever and how long it should take to roll new features out to the public using the proper development cycle of design, coding, testing and release?
  • Contractual? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:40AM (#11657905)
    I've heard (I admit I don't know how reliable the info is, so this is typical Slashdot gossip) that a lot of google features remain "beta" so they don't have to deliver them to certain technology alliance subscribers. Ever.
  • The good 'ol days... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by code65536 ( 302481 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:48AM (#11657933) Homepage Journal
    Whatever happened to the good old days when users *expected* version 1 to be the unstable version and that version 2 or 3 is when the good stuff comes out? In the time it took for Phoenix/Fire(bird|fox) finally exited beta, Netscape had gone from version 1 to version 2 to version 3... anyway, my thoughts on this...

    1/ Overuse of betas will lead to a diminishing of the meaning of beta. Favorite examples would be ICQ and Firefox. I used Firefox since 0.6, and it's worked beautifully for me ever since. But *despite the fact that it worked fine enough to serve as my primary browser*, it was considered beta. As more and more people discover this little fact that "beta doesn't really mean beta" then its meaning will diminish. Next thing we know, we'll be talking about long alpha periods.

    2/ The versioning system is supposed to give people a good idea of what kinds of changes there have been. The use of beta names diminishes and distorts that. Once again, I return to Firefox. The amount of changes made between 0.6 and 1.0 of FF is tremendous. Based on what is seen on paper, it was more substantial than what 1.0->1.5 would be. With perpetual betas, people have that magical 1.0 barrier that they can't break. So there is a compression and thus distortion of version numbering.

    3/ It's a cute new way to push aside blame. Well, it's a beta product, so if it's broke, it's not our fault. Of course, there are time when this *should* have been used (and not used), like Netscape 6. But it's being overused.

    4/ This is just pure nostalgia, but I miss the good old days when version numbers would leap ahead and people would be in anticipation of exciting new features. Now, version numbers creep from beta1 to beta2 to beta3 and while there are still cool and exciting changes, they seem marginalized.

    I strongly believe that betas should be used for things that are legitimately under development. As soon as it's stable enough that the developer would feel comfortable with using it on a regular basis without it completely blowing up, it's 1.0. Save the perfection and endless tweaking and bugfixing for 1.1 or 2.0; I have yet to see a perfect 1.0, even if eons of time have been funneled into perfection.
  • by jann ( 253364 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @04:53AM (#11657953)
    if you do not charge for it and people still rely on it you may still be liable (in negligance) if it does not work.

    If it is in "beta" there is one further barrier that someone must jump over to successfully sue you.

    J

    BTW IAAL and I know I can't spell
  • to a computer scientist, a hacker is someone who tinkers with access to a supposedly secure system, for not necessarily malicious intent... in fact, such testing of the defenses can even be construed as beneficial

    to the general public, a hacker is tantamount to an online terrorist, period

    to a computer scientist, p2p is an evolving paradigm, where everything from spare processor cycles to segments of larger files that can be reassembled on the fly can be traded to amplify the power of the internet

    to the general public, p2p is where you get free music, period

    to a computer scientist, beta connotes a program that isn't ready for final release yet

    to the general public, beta connotes an offering from a large computer company/ gateway portal that is just unsupported

    now some may see these changing word definitions as some sort of repugnant dumbing down of vital concepts, concepts important to areas of endeavour that some care passionately about, and they resent it

    but i assert, from the standpoint of a realist, that since the internet is a phenomenon whose impact reaches beyond the realm of ivory tower computer scientists, such a dumbing down effect of certain terms previously secluded to the realm of computer science is just inevitable, unavoidable, and shouldn't be a reason for any reaction except a rolling of the eyes and maybe some laughter

    all words evolve in terms of meaning and usage over time, and computer scientists, even if they invented the terminology, don't own word definitions
  • by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @05:03AM (#11657987) Homepage Journal
    So does someone have the answer? What the hell do these terms mean, and are they useful any more?

    I've always had a (slightly) different definition (and number of letters) for the various "greek letter" status elements (which I use in my Open Source project, the jSyncManager [jsyncmanager.org]):

    1. alpha - A work in progress which is feature incomplete.
    2. beta - the product is now feature complete, and requires rigourous testing.
    3. gamma - All bugs found in the beta phase have been fixed, with a last opportunity to detect any problems with the fixes themselves (effectively what others call the "Release Candidate").
    4. final - Done like dinner. Package it up and get it into the hands of customers.

    The problem I run into isn't the never-ending beta -- it's the never-ending alpha stage :P. A big part of this tends to have to do with trying to fit in user requests for enhancement, and simply not having the time nor manpower to get it all done in a timely manner (as we're not a project that attracts a lot of developers willing to contribute to the core). Our beta phases tend to be fairly short, in large part because once we hit beta, we've typically hit a feature freeze as well, and are only going to fix bugs.

    IMO, if it's not feature complete, you have no right calling it a "beta", as much of your high-level testing is going to be useless if you're going to be adding code during the beta phase. Adding new features effectively "resets" the status back to the beginning of "beta" -- making the term effectively meaningless.

    But I guess I'm just old fashioned that way...

    Yaz.

  • by Dylan Thomas ( 853299 ) <dylan@freespirits.org> on Sunday February 13, 2005 @05:11AM (#11658023) Homepage Journal

    I agree that "beta" no longer means what it used to. I remember when you had to be someone special to get a beta version of a program, back when my friends would come over and say, "Guess what I managed to get my hands on?" and they'd be waving around a beta version of some popular product and we'd all go, "Wow, how did you manage that?"

    However, I also remember the days when a "syndicated" television program meant network reruns. A show that was original in syndication would have confused everyone.

    So although I completely agree with you that "beta doesn't really mean beta" anymore, and that we also need a reliable way to know exactly how stable a product is (and whether or not the developers are taking any responsibility for its failings), I don't know that it's a disaster that this is happening. I'm not willing to cry, "No, that's not what beta means, you're violating the ancient traditions of software development!"

    Maybe that's going to be what beta comes to mean next. Maybe the new beta is going to be a product perpetually in development with users responsible for quality control. Maybe it's going to become "open testing, no liability" software. Maybe instead of being a phase of software development, beta will become a style of software development.

    I can't predict the future, so I can't say, but I do know there are some marginally decent original syndicated television programs these days. So yes, while I note the word isn't the same beta I grew up with, I'm willing to sit back and see what evolves out of this. I do want a word which clearly expresses to me what I can expect from a given level of a product, but if "beta" is no longer that word, well, no disaster.

  • Re:GMail (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rawb ( 529039 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @05:22AM (#11658054) Homepage
    >>You don't let that huge of a population use something that is truly still "beta." I used to play a game called Dragon Realms, stared as an AOL game, then went to the web. It's been around a good 12 years now and it's still in "beta". Hell, they were even making $12/month from all the customers... who were paying for a beta service. They even got some to fork over $40/month for 'premium' or 'platinum' or some other such nonesense... Did they play a more finished version of the game? Nope. They just got some items and alterations and junk... but the game was the same. Beta for all, apoligies for none.
  • by MonkeyBunker ( 858589 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @06:37AM (#11658247)
    At a large gaming company I used to work at that I'll call Evil Alliance, the definitions were:

    Alpha:
    First testable build
    All assets/features are in, but may not be working as designed.

    Beta:
    All assets are in game and functioning as designed
    All bugs in database are addressed, but not necessarily fixed. Some may be marked as KS, "Known, Shippable."

    Final:
    Ready for final checklist reviews (Sony TRC/XBox TCR/Nintendo Standards, EA "Customer Quality Control" checklists)

    Naturally, in practice this kind of falls apart. Some projects I worked on were adding features up until late betas, others followed this chart almost exactly.
  • by mumblestheclown ( 569987 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @08:24AM (#11658500)
    If it *never* (or even "rarely") lives up to the "quality expected", then perhaps the problem is with the expectation, no?

    Product release cycles are well understood. Modern computer programs are too complex (and, occasionally, market-driven) to get 100% right on the first go. So, the reasonable expectation is to expect a release followed by patches that fix issues that are discovered in due course.

    Since this applies to virtually all software, either built by "incompetent" microsoft or (in analogue) "revolutionary and cool genuiuses) who make firefox, the intelligent thing is to realize that that's the way it is and to temper your expectations. Instead of saying "why can't they just then all wait a year and spend more time fixing it", how about saying "if I want a really stable version, my policy will be to wait a year before upgrading to newer and better software."

    It's not that tough, people.

  • Re:agreed (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MasterSLATE ( 638125 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @08:54AM (#11658582) Homepage Journal
    we did that 2 years ago in freshman year in college. we had 4 fish, each fought, 1 on 1 until mine was crowned champion. We filmed it too. It was great.
  • Re:GMail (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Haydn Fenton ( 752330 ) <no.spam.for.haydn@gmail.com> on Sunday February 13, 2005 @09:32AM (#11658698)
    Why does everyone keep saying they haven't seen any new features whilst its been in beta? I've seen quite a few myself, maybe I just pay more attention to the little things, or (ha! v. unlikely) I've had GMail for longer than most slashdotters.
    Not many are coming to mind tbh, and I cant' seem to find a list of updates.. They added thumbnails to emails with picture attachments, they added external POP3 access, they've improved the contacts manager, they fixed up that nasty bug (which shouldn't have really been there anyway for someone like Google) where memory could be read by missing a closing tag in the To (or wad it From?) field. There's the GMail notifier and other things I cant remember at present. I can say I'm happy with the progress they're making, considering it was a good service beforehand, and there will be god knows how many bug fixes and things we won't notice. Being in Beta is a sensible idea, they aren't as pressured to be perfect and it's not finished. If they released it fully now and people found bugs or errors it wouldnt look very good, if they wait, the majority of people wont notice, and they have an excuse. Beta is the programmers heaven :)
  • Re:GMail (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jacksonj04 ( 800021 ) <nick@nickjackson.me> on Sunday February 13, 2005 @10:05AM (#11658828) Homepage
    ABout the invites, I saw an interesting theory on here (can't remember who from so if it was you then shout up) that the invites should be kept to allow Google to trace where accounts came from. So, if a spammer gets a gMail account and invites himself 50 accounts to spam from, Google could get rid of them all by removing the 'root' account and anybody that account invited.
  • Mildly Unrelated... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Nephroth ( 586753 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @11:07AM (#11659111)
    This is mildly unrelated, but I am irritated as to how much the word "beta" is thrown around. It is not so much an issue with professional developers, but an issue with individuals that mis-classify an alpha, or even just a concept demo as "beta." Admittedly, this mistake is most often made outside the realm of software development and more in the area of 3rd party maps for FPS games, and in flash portals (such as Newgrounds). The term "beta" is often used in these realms as an excuse for laziness.

    My point is ultimately that the misuse of the term "beta" to describe anything other than a software project that is ready for public testing in order to repair bugs and refine operation actually devalues the term. (at least in the world of software anyway) It does NOT mean that you were lazy and didn't feel like finishing something, and it does not excuse:
    -Poor animation.
    -BSP errors.
    -Infinitely repeating textures.
    -100% saturation lighting.
    -Excessive use of colored lighting.
    -Using your pre-pubescent voice for your animation recorded via your OEM computer mic.
    -Hard P's into a microphone, and while we are at it, hard S's as well.
    -General sucktitude.
    -Bad level concept.
    -Being anywhere between the ages of 11-17. (I don't care if you are "only 12" if your movie sucked, it sucked, and unless you stop sucking you should stop acting as though you don't)
    -Completely lacking skill.

    I could go on forever as to what the term "beta" does not describe, but that would mean no breakfast and that would be the real tragedy around here.
  • by The Tyrant ( 472050 ) on Sunday February 13, 2005 @01:02PM (#11659911)
    A slight exageration on his part there, but according to many world religions, fish dont have souls.

Happiness is twin floppies.

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