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Programming IT Technology Entertainment Games

Should Games Be More Boring? 180

An anonymous reader writes "At Gamasutra, serious games creator Ian Bogost is making the case that video games should be more mundane, particularly discussing of Nintendo' Brain Age: 'It's certainly a very different kind of game from Halo or even Miyamoto's own Zelda series, games that allow the player to inhabit complex fantasy worlds. Instead, much of Brain Age's success seems to come precisely from the ordinariness of its demands.' Would games become more accessible if they tapped into everyday things a little bit more, as opposed to spiralling off into fictional realities?"
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Should Games Be More Boring?

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  • Umm.... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Drakemaw ( 797274 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:37PM (#19240863)
    No
  • Silly Guy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mephistophocles ( 930357 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:41PM (#19240969) Homepage
    Heh no. I sort of he's coming from but he missed the boat, badly. I think that what developers should try to understand is that there is no "magic formula" for creating a good game. You can't feed the "fun" factor into a checklist and hit every point to get a good game. I think that in order to design a good game, it's necessary to try to think in entirely different terms. Great games are born from innovative and creative concepts, which are then mobilized using creative and fun stories, interfaces, graphics, etc. I'm not at all saying it's a crap shoot - I'm saying that once you start thinking in terms of formula, you lose the creative aspect of the game, and arguably, the fun factor as well. And that's what makes a game great - and of course it's also what ultimately makes it sell.
  • Anti-Drama... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by 7Prime ( 871679 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:41PM (#19240971) Homepage Journal
    I think it partially stems from the fact that the US, in particular, has this sort of aversion to drama and abstraction, in general. We seem to prefer the "realistic" to the "fantastic", partially because fantasy and mellodrama offend so easily. In fantasy, and mellodrama, the audience is required to open up themselves in various ways, emotionally and imaginitively, that I think a lot of people feel a bit self-concious of doing. It's also kind of a macho thing too, guys aren't supposed to be emotional or particularly imaginative.

    I think this sorta explains the rise of GTA over fantasy games, but I think it also begins to explain the distinction between Brain Age and fantasy/drama titles.
  • by Rachel Lucid ( 964267 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:41PM (#19240975) Homepage Journal
    Having a few 'mundane' games is one thing, particularly if we're talking Nintendo's type of mundane in terms of Nintendogs, WiiPlay, and the like.

    The fact is, Fantastic games are what sell systems. I begged for my first PlayStation (one) thanks to Spyro the Dragon, and had Sega been on the ball a little more, NiGHTS would've let 'em sell quite a few more systems too. Brain Age is an okay game, but when I reach for my DS, I have Elite Beat Agents, Mario, Sonic, Cooking Mama, FF3... you get where I'm going with this.

    Brain Age is a good secondary game as a 'pick up and play' offering. It's NOT what made the DS a success.
  • by theStorminMormon ( 883615 ) <theStorminMormon&gmail,com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:43PM (#19241011) Homepage Journal
    I notice the actual question has to do with fantasy realities, and that the motivation is making games more accesible. This is analogous to saying "should we stop making fantasy books so that people read more books?" After all, not everyone is for 800-page novels with dozens of characters (often with unpronounceable names) and make-believe politics and geogrpaphy. Not to mention magic and possibly mythical creatures.

    So should we stop writing fantasy?

    How about we just keep writing fantasy, and also let people interested in straight-fiction just read straight-fiction. We can also have mysteries, educational books, sci-fi, horror, philosophy, etc.

    Why criticize a genre to "help" a medium? Computer games are a medium. Fantasy games are a genre in that medium. If there's great response to brain age: make more games like it. There's no more reason to cut fantasy than there would be to cut the fantasy section of a bookstore.
  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:43PM (#19241023)

    Would games become more accessible if they tapped into everyday things a little bit more, as opposed to spiralling off into fictional realities?


    Hello Ian and welcome to the games industry! (You noob.)

    You might want to look up games such as The Sims, all the various Simpsons spin-offs or even Skate or Die or Paperboy from a previous generation. (i.e., its been done many, many times before.)

  • Ordinary != Boring (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:44PM (#19241049) Homepage Journal

    It's absolutely ordinary for there to be shootings in South Central LA, but it's not boring.

    To say Brain Age is boring because the tasks are ordinary displays stupidity and a lack of vocabulary. Rather simple vocabulary, I might add.

    Also, the link is to the third page of the story, which is where Brain Age is discussed, but it is bad form.

    Enough about the stupidity of anonymous cowards and their story submissions, on to where I talk shit about the article!

    The article is just pathetic. "television is so familiar, it's not even startling to think about television programming produced solely to discuss other media forms." This is in response to a comment about TV shows about making movies. But there are movies about making things, and on this planet we call them documentaries. This lack of ability to stop and notice reality pervades the article, which is split into three pages to garner ad impressions, but has little enough content to have been on one page of this size.

    His summary (which is not actually a summary - this not being an essay, but a meandering rant) follows: "we should want games to be more boring. Not just some games, we should want many of them, maybe even most of them to be boring, so that the ones that are not can become the Casablancas of our future medium." What he seems to be saying here is that we should want games to be crap, so that the non-crap can look even better by comparison.

    Say it with me: mundane does not equal boring. Sure, most things which are mundane are also boring. But then there's sex.

  • by DefenderThree ( 920248 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:48PM (#19241145)
    Brain Age's success doesn't come from being "ordinary," otherwise the myriad of chess, sudoku, and crossword games would have brought in massive sales. Its strength is derived from its accessibility and simplicity: not everyone has the time, energy, skills, or desire to learn complex building trees, resources management, or practice their trigger finger. Every man, woman, and child above the age of seven can add simple numbers, count objects, and match things. Further, the assigned tasks are short and mentally satisfying, not appealingly "ordinary."
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:49PM (#19241159)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • How About (Score:3, Insightful)

    by svendsen ( 1029716 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:49PM (#19241169)
    Use existing graphics, cut your graphics/sound/artist dept. down by 80% and use the rest of the time to make an interesting game. Doesn't matter the genre, just make it fun/interesting/etc.

    Look they are people out there who are all over ass sweat on the body they just shot. Great. Too bad ass sweat doesn't actually make the game good.

    Given X the total time from start to finish how much of X is not on something relating to actually game play experience?
  • Missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@g m a i l . c om> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:51PM (#19241233) Homepage Journal
    Games are distractions. Viewed from a clinical perspective, they are all chores. Why should I blow up the bad guy's superweapon again? Or take out that legion of storm troopers trying to kill me? Why should I bother solving some random number puzzle to access this door?

    Most gamers would reply, "that's different!" But is it really? If you're not all that interested in video games, living out a fantasy like that might not be interesting. In fact, it may very well feel like a chore. (

    (As a side note, this is why I stopped playing first person shooters save for those that take place in fictional universes that interest me. e.g. Elite Forces. FPS games were becoming a repetitive task of "avoid the zombie attacks, shoot the bad guys, avoid the zombie attacks, shoot the bad guys." Online gameplay was marginally more interesting with, "shoot other guy, get shot by someone else, shoot the other guy, get shot by someone else." But I digress.)

    Generally speaking, when you view or interact with entertainment you are looking to invoke an emotional connection of some sort. A highly developed sense for a particular form of entertainment allows one to appreciate complex forms of it more readily than others. Meanwhile, some just want forms that evoke a simple reaction to a simple form of that entertainment.

    To use music as an example, Beethoven can evoke a lot of emotion in those who have developed an ear for classical music and enjoy such music. Others prefer a more direct approach of a shouted out emotional state as found in Death Metal Rock. Still others are looking for a quick attack/release cycle of emotions as found in pop and techno music. (Ever notice the 90's techno always dropped the background music for a few seconds at the height of the song? It's a cheap trick, but it has serious emotional and cognitive impact on the listener.)

    Taking this back to video games, it's not the chores themselves that make Brain Age interesting. It's being placed in a situation where you have to react and think quickly. Simple math and puzzles are used as the vehicle for such tests. For some players, the pressure being placed on them to get a better score is reward in of itself. This is similar to the reward one gets by blasting through a shoot-em'up while avoiding the gazillion+1 enemies that are hogging the screen space. Pressure is put on you to perform, and a certain reward is felt when you achieve a good performance level. One can even be proud of their achievement by sharing their score with others. In the old days, this meant entering your initials into the arcade machine. For Brain Age, this means having a normalized and easily relatable score to brag to your friends about.

    My end point is that these games aren't "boring" at all. They are just as interactive as other forms of gaming. The only difference is in the audience they appeal to. Just as country music appeals to some while death metal rock appeals to others. It takes all kinds.
  • Re:Anti-Drama... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zegota ( 1105649 ) <rpgfanatic @ g m a i l . com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:59PM (#19241411)
    "Fantastic" does not apply solely to games with swords and dragons -- GTA is fantastical in many ways. Furthermore, GTA sold well mainly because it is a fun game. There have been other games that have tried to copy the same style of storytelling and "realism" in the GTA games, but without the fun, and most of these games haven't come close to copying GTAs success. However, I think you a very flawed in saying that realism wins out over fantasy in America. Final Fantasy is still one of the top selling game series. Madden is up there too, however. Shows like CSI and Grey's Anatomy, though hardly 'realistic', are probably not considered fantasy and are very successful. Shows like Lost and Heroes, however, are very fantastic and also garner fantastic ratings (well, Lost is falling, but that is for other reasons). I think my point is that American culture embraces a mix of both dramatic realism and escapism nearly equally. Some people completely shun realism, some completely shun fantasy, but most are okay with both.
  • by Dogtanian ( 588974 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:03PM (#19241489) Homepage
    "Let the market decide"?

    Thank you Captain Obvious. Since the author of the article wasn't suggesting that such games be given special government funding, or that people be forced to play them at gunpoint, then the market will decide anyway.

    He's quite entitled to make suggestions, companies are free to ignore them, or consumers free to not buy them. You seem to be implying that anything outside some artificially restricted concept of "The Market" is not valid; i.e. software houses decide what to produce based only on their own opinions/research and consumers either buy or don't.

    Chanting "let the market decide" like a mantra isn't meaningful or insightful; it's redundant.
  • by rblancarte ( 213492 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:07PM (#19241569) Homepage
    The biggest thing here is that Gamasutra is missing the point.

    Brain Age is not a popular game because it is boring or because it has such a broad appeal. It is popular because it is good. Just like Zelda and Halo (NIMHO, but that isn't the point). Good games will always be popular. Bad games will go the way of Diakatana.

    When it comes to games, the point is make something that is quality work. If it is, it will find a market to appeal to. Again, look back a number of weeks [slashdot.org] when Geometry Wars was being talked about. Is that game boring? No. It is simple, but the real key, it is really fun. Hence, why it is so popular.

    I will say this, if a Game "Magazine/web site" is making this article, I really have to question their credibility.

    RonB
  • Who? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:13PM (#19241713)
    Hmm, and what has he ever been involved in creating? Some instructional games carrying a activist message that no one's ever heard of? Yeah, I'm positive this guy knows what kind of games people want to play, and why they do.
  • by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:17PM (#19241801)
    Sometimes its nice just to sit down and play for half an hour. I was playing Zelda Twilight Princess (GC) last night, and I already had 2 key shards from the second dungeon from when I saved last time, I was right up to the point before where you fight the big fat rolling stone guy. It still took me an hour to finish the dungeon. And it's not like I got particularly stuck on any section. I spend another half hour running around the town afterwards collecting stuff, and buying new items. I like the game a lot. It's tons of fun. Probably the best Zelda game I've ever played. But it's not something you can just sit down and play for 30 minutes. By the time your 30 minutes is up, you're just getting into it. Games need to be of all kinds to attract the widest audience. When I want to play for 30 minutes, I get super monkey ball, Mario Kart, or something else like that. We need games of all types. Even for people like me, who enjoy playing long drawn out games.
  • by Headw1nd ( 829599 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:24PM (#19241923)
    I think if you look at his quote "Some proponents of serious games have unfortunately suggested that such games are opposed to the commercial, entertainment games that have come to define popular opinion of the medium." you can see that he's not interested in making games less exciting/fantastical, but rather making more unexciting/less fantastical games. Fantasy games would continue to exist in the numbers they do now, but alongside them would exist more mundane games. As a result, the culture as a whole would become more invested in gaming. I think what he is challenging is the assumption that exciting, fantastical games are the only games that anyone would play, not challenging the worthiness of those games.

    My own personal view is that this has already started to happen, via MMO's. As an MMO player myself (COH), I think we can admit that for the most part, MMO's are boring. They require insane amounts of time and feature a steady stream of simple, repetitive tasks. Yet they are full of people, many with little other interest in gaming.

  • by Dogtanian ( 588974 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:35PM (#19242147) Homepage

    I think it partially stems from the fact that the US, in particular, has this sort of aversion to drama and abstraction, in general.
    You're kidding, right?

    I sincerely hope this isn't taken as a troll, but George W Bush himself always came across to me as someone playing a movie-style president for an electorate brought up on the same thing. Not just the gung-ho mentality, but the whole package.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut reaction is that you're so soaked in this that you can't see it. Or are you implying that US society is much *less* influenced by images in popular culture than others are?

    And you have an aversion to abstraction? Advertising and branding, the red-blood of All-American capitalism *is* abstraction of values. How else does a simple tick-shaped "swoosh" symbol, or some pretty white writing on a red background saying "Coca Cola" have so much meaning? It's not that Nike goods or Coca Cola are so much better than the competition; it's that they have so much imagery associated with them. It's bordering on hyperreality [wikipedia.org].

    I think this sorta explains the rise of GTA over fantasy games,
    GTA realistic? It's not exactly Ridley Scott's "Legend", but it's still a white boy's safe fantasy of black urban life.

    but I think it also begins to explain the distinction between Brain Age and fantasy/drama titles.
    Wasn't Brain Age/Dr. Kawashima a Japanese success to start off with before it did well in the US? The stereotype of American entertainment isn't "small-scale realism", it's big-bucks blockbusters.

    I appreciate that there's been a move to "reality" TV in recent years, but if your reality shows are anything like ours in the UK, then they're contrived situations set up like a lab experiment designed to provoke drama and edited to play out like a real-life soap.

    If reality TV reflects anything, it's the increasingly artificial and contrived direction modern society is moving towards, everyone's life played out as 15 minutes of TV fame.
  • by Cornflake917 ( 515940 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:36PM (#19242157) Homepage
    It sounds like the guy who wrote the article just wanted some attention. He probably just thought of the most incorrect statement he could make and went with it.

    Here are some more statements he could have made that would grab people's attention:

    "Games with animals turn gamers to bestiality"
    "Wii games should cost $500"
    "Gamers might contract gonnorhea from the PS3"
    "One-Dimensional Games: An untapped market"
    "GTA4 should not have cars in it."

  • by 644bd346996 ( 1012333 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @03:44PM (#19243277)
    The real problem is the concept of "The Market." Games like Brain Age appeal to a different audience than RPGs. Economically, they are barely related. They aren't substitutes or complements. They just run on the same systems as different genre games. People don't go to a store looking for an FPS and walk out with Pong. Asking "should games be more boring?" is like asking "should everything on TV be more like soap operas?" Like with TV shows, the market for video games is too broad to really be treated as a single market. What TFA should have asked is "have the video game companies been paying enough attention to the arcade and puzzle game markets?"
  • MMOs boring? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tweak4 ( 1074671 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @03:52PM (#19243407)

    There's a whole genere of boring games out there, they're called MMORPG's. Seriously, who wants to grind for months just to have a chance to get the "ZOMG SWORD OF ULTIMATE PWNAGE"
    Umm... how about the several million subscribers that currently plop down $15/month to their game of choice? If no one wanted to, none of these games would exist, so obviously someone does...
  • by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @03:53PM (#19243425) Homepage Journal
    Well what it comes down to is the author finds these games boring and makes the common mistake of thinking everybody feels the same.
    Everybody thinks different things are boring.
    I like to read books about physics but I could care less the name of Madonna's husband/boyfriend.
    To me the fundamental structure of all of creation is more exciting than a celebrity's love life.
    But let's face it I am in the minority.
  • Re:Umm.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stOPHER978 ( 996221 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @03:58PM (#19243509)
    We do have boring games.. World of Warcraft. In fact boring games are equivalent with easy games.
  • by Dracos ( 107777 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @04:12PM (#19243757)

    Games should go back to being games, rather than video based reincarnations of choose-your-own-adventure books or 120 hour movies with semi-interactive cut scenes (by which I mean the actual game play in between the cinematics). Games have put eye/ear candy above game play and plot for the last decade.

  • by Dogtanian ( 588974 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @04:22PM (#19243927) Homepage
    That partly sums up what I felt; namely, that the current up-its-backside-with-Hollywood-production-values games market is just a small percentage of the total *potential* market. I felt this before games like Dr. Kawashima/Brain Age, and it was games like that which persuaded me to buy a DS Lite; and also the reason that I didn't even consider the PSP.
  • by Prien715 ( 251944 ) <agnosticpope@nOSPaM.gmail.com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @05:02PM (#19244615) Journal
    I think what makes brain age different than every other game is that the sole focus of the game is self-improvement; it's like an RPG where you are (rather than control the main character). Let me explain.

    In most RPGs, you get better primarily by gaining levels or acquiring new equipment. In Zelda, you get a new boomerang or a better sword. What's unique about brain age is that rather than doing better because you got the +10K dagger of Pwnage, your skills actually improve. You become better at adding and lower your "brain age". It's just like an RPG; you gain rated levels based on how you perform, but the focus is on your performing better, rather than giving your character special skills or equipment that allow them to perform better in your stead.

    I can't think of too many other games where the focus is on self-improvement rather than avatar-improvement (or just simply a high score).
  • by tgibbs ( 83782 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @06:34PM (#19245707)
    I think the author's point is a good one, though poorly expressed.

    Probably a better way to put it is,

    "Should there be more games that are cerebral or contemplative rather than action oriented"

    Put that way, the answer is probably yes. There are a lot of activities that people enjoy that are not excitement-oriented. And there have always been games that tapped into this kind of entertainment: board games, puzzle games, virtual pets, classic adventure games, resource management games, weird abstract games. Games like Brain Age reveal that this category is hardly mined out. But the factors that make such games enjoyable tend to be more unique and difficult to anticipate than, say, first person shooters, so they will probably always remain a minor component of the market.
  • by fractoid ( 1076465 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @11:47PM (#19248259) Homepage
    Not really on topic but why do you take that crap? Just say "I'm not interested" and hang up. The only reasons I can think of that you'd not do so are either (a) you want to get back with her (in which case she doesn't sound worth it, she's treating you as her cuddle bitch), or (b) you're "still friends" (which probably actually means (a), since if she was really your friend then she wouldn't do that to you, but at least you're admitting you won't get back together.) Or, I guess, (c) is that you don't care either way about her now, but in that case why pretend to listen? :P

    On topic now, I always found grinding in WoW to be fun, I'd log my warrior and head to the Noxious Glade to beat crap out of random things. Not for any particular reason even, it's just something I did when I wanted to tune out for a bit. When it comes down to it, beating crap outta things (or setting fire to them, freezing them, sucking their souls out, maybe healing friendly things, whatever lights your fuse) is what you do 90% of the time. If it's not something you enjoy, why play?
  • by Frozen Void ( 831218 ) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:21AM (#19250035) Homepage
    1.Games for people who want to have fun.
    2.Games for people who want to have challenge.(e.g. Skill based games)

    Bith tyopes have some fun,and some challenge but game focuses on something singular.

Thus spake the master programmer: "After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless." -- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

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