From an Unrelated Career To IT/Programming? 374
An anonymous reader writes "I hate my career of the past few years. For a long time I've wondered what I'd do after I broke even and could get into something new, and I keep coming back to computers. I'd like to get into software, since I always enjoyed coding. I have some background with C++ so I'm not starting entirely from scratch. My problem is my degrees and past employment have no practical application to the field. Where should I start? I have friends in both IT and software development who might be able to pull some strings and get me an interview or two for entry-level positions, but what can I do to make myself hireable in a short period of time? Is it possible to pick up enough of what I'd need within a couple months? If so, what and how?"
Look at your experience that isn't coding. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You could just lie and go for it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, though obviously I can't advocate that approach, it's frankly not a bad idea. Your first hurdle is HR, and HR wants 5 years of this and 6 years of that, and they are going to toss everything that doesn't conform to those standards.
I've seen plenty of incompetent people lie their way through HR, so it definitely works. Now, if you do that, and get hired and it turns out you don't know what you're doing, you can expect your coworkers to turn on you big time. Nothing worse than an incompetent coworker: it's better to have no one at all.
try it old school (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Be Proactive (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd say the answer is no. I've never looked at a resume and saw that they had no PAID experience and then said, wait, they played around on some open source project, they must be good...
as a part of my department's hiring team, more weight is given to paid positions, definitely.
but the programming skill / quality of some of these paid positions is the same as the programming skill / quality of the fuzzies in my sock -- non-existent.
if you work on an open source project, we can at least look back at the commit tree and see some of the actual codewrites and adds/changes in the tree. in some cases, it gives us more of a knowledge of the applicants skill then someone who is just providing a resume, and using the buzzwords-of-the-{day,month,year}, since we actually have something TANGIBLE to look at. Plus, working on an open source project, the OP may likely start on a low end, handling documentation or tickets, until progressing upwards into the high technical levels -- useful skills to have.
if you filter out all technical people right off the bat, due to past paid experience or college degree, you may lose a great hire. some of our best workers are non-ee/cs (surpisingly, civil engineers make good coders, and one of our best is a former music major, orchestra performer, & music theory professor). additionally, having someone come in without the 'dogma' from a standard ee/cs education & job background may be refreshing -- as they think and will approach problems in different ways.
YMMV, but just my experience that cares more about the people than your standard fortune 500 chairfiller...
Start small and you will win in the end. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Be Proactive (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, that isn't totally applicable to the current situation, since the OP has no IT background to speak of. But perhaps some part of their skill set can be applied - especially if they look to smaller companies where your job may include a wide array of overlapping areas and responsibilities.
School, Submersion, and Certifications (Score:2, Interesting)
First off try to get a degree of some sort, even if it's just a AAS Degree in Computer Science at a local community college. If you have any credits it may not take as long as you'd think.
If school isn't an option or you don't want to spend the time, pick a path and submerge yourself in it. If you want to go the DotNet path then pick-up VS2008 Developer Edition, Sql Server 2008 Developer Edition, and as many books as you can. Yes it will cost some money, but you're talking about a life changing career move so you'll need to invest some cash and time.
Also a huge piece most folks miss when telling someone how to get started are the conceptual aspects of coding. I'd say any good program has more time put into planning the concept then typing code itself. Spend as much time learning the theories behind coding, which generally are language independent. I'd suggest getting Beautiful Code and also reviewing the books at OReilly on this topic - http://oreilly.com/store/series/theory.html [oreilly.com] .
Then once you pick a language and start getting familiar with it, start coding! Put together anything, whether it's a program to calculate your budget, your bowling team's scores, anything. Find some practical use for hte code and start hacking. Then when start looking at certifications. Microsoft has several for developers: MCTS, MCPD, MCAD, etc.
So how does this apply to breaking into the IT workforce??? Personally my experience is a degree is best, but many employers will look at certifications second. Either shows you're able to follow through with something. Secondly even if you have no professional experience, I've seen folks carry a portfolio of work to show. If the hiring is done by a CIO or HR department, they probably will look more at certs and degrees, but if the technical side of the department is involved have something to show, even if it's a small sample of printed out code. To a developer they can read this and see how good you are.
With all this said, don't expect to find an awesome job right out of the gate. Try to get a gopher job, which is generally fixing bugs, doing reports, etc... and from here you'll get the work experience you need to really move up in the industry. ALso make contacts!!! Find folks in your area who are coders, whether in a user group, local computer shop, or whatever. Most jobs I've seen folks get around our area are through contacts. The verbiage "It's who you know not what you know" does hold true.
Have fun... , but my suggestion is to go to school part time at your local community college and try to pick-up an AAS Degree in Computer Science. Depending on the credits you have now it may only be a matter of a few classes, or if you're starting from scratch some technical colleges will give you a certification. But for better or for worse many employers look for a degree of some sort.
Secondly I'd suggest picking a path and submerging yourself in it. For example if DotNet is your route, get
Take a step back chief...... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd recommend investing in something like: http://www.aimstesting.org/ [aimstesting.org]
Take into consideration your age. Are you going to fit in with a bunch of 20 somethings fresh out of school?
Corporate culture will differ with the company, but your co-workers "mini culture" will have a big effect.
Is this really something you can do long term?
By that I mean, the sheer amount of IT work in your geographic area.
If you work for company A and it goes under or you decide to leave, what else is available?
(You will have to compete with a much larger pool of candidates if you try a tele-commuting gig.)
Do you enjoy your family, hobbies, etc? Plenty of IT jobs regularly require far more than 40 hours/week. Are you prepared for this as a long term situation?
If after all that you still want to give it a shot and your contacts will pull a few strings then give it a shot.....and may God have mercy on your soul.
Start with the web (Score:1, Interesting)
Web programming is super easy to get started with, and it will get you inside the door at a number of good to excellent companies.
Entry-level PHP developers often make $40-65k and that's with little to no corporate experience (and often no related degrees). We're mostly self-taught (so you'd fit right in) and lots of us don't have *any* degree. If you have any business or management experience, it will help you land an entry-level job, as you will be more valuable than just a programmer. We need thinkers who are earger to learn, not people with multiple degrees and 15 years of experience. You won't be making the life and death decisions. That's what the senior developers are for.
Focus on learning proper OO techniques and PHP 5 (it will carry more weight when interviewing for a position and will be most useful when switching languages a couple years into your new career).
There are countless open source PHP projects you could get involved with, but I'd recommend that you not focus too much effort on contributing.
- First off, with any decent project, your coding level will probably be far below the other main contributors (and your commits will look less than glamorous).
- Second, employers are not going to dig up your contributions when considering you for an entry level position.
- If you do contribute, do it for your own personal development as a programmer, not for any potential benefit being hired.
Code, code, code. When you get to that interview, show you have a command of the language. At least enough that when they need you to make simple changes, they can give you guidance, even instructions (my boss LOVES to give them) but not have to feel like they're babysitting you through each step of the process.
Lastly, don't forget the basics (if you go the web route). HTML, CSS, JavaScript... You don't have to be a guru, but if you can't mostly understand and navigate your way through those, you're not ready for the typical entry-level php position.
Re:Be Proactive (Score:2, Interesting)
Do -not- say something like "I would have declined the offer as the position would have been maintenance oriented since the bulk of the work was satisfactorily completed."
The vast majority of software work is in maintenance work, having to deal with other people's code and bugs. It's just a fact of life, and any manager is going to nix someone who tries to avoid that reality.
You can say something like "I prefer building new apps over maintenance" and that'd be fine; everyone would just nod and agree. But you certainly cannot appear as one of those obnoxious types who refused to deal with other folk's work and habits.
Re:Be Proactive (Score:1, Interesting)
I had about the same I replied with:
Me: Do you hire a carpenter full time even though he is finished fitting the furniture?
HR: If the organization is large enough to support him with work, yes.
Me: That organization had no requirement for a full time position. The only way to stay longer was by working slower but I rather work without wasting time then considering job security.
Some HR manager act on purpose clueless (instead of actually being clueless) to see how well candidates react to these situation. Since they don't care about what you think of them (they already have a job) it is perceived as a good personality test of the candidate. I disagree of course, but then again I don't work in HR. HR in my opinion works directly with people and pissing about with candidates is the same as pissing about with potential customers. So when a candidate leaves the conversation with a "I am not going to work in this dump" afterthought. Even though the candidate can't even recollect the conversation. From that day on there is a negative association with the company. Which might be a bad idea when that candidate is in a position of choice and the pickings include something that company want to sell.
So HR Managers, please remember, you only meet future colleagues or potential customers. If you don't know what the implication is and you care about the well being of your colleagues, please leave the company now before you make everybody unemployed.
Re:Be Proactive (Score:4, Interesting)
The reason that everyone gives conflicting advice about "how to get hired" or "what to put on a resume" is that there is no universal formula. There is none, because if there was, everybody would game it, and then it would stop working.
The stock market works the same way. If someone is publicly advocating or selling a formula, then you already know that the formula doesn't work any more.
Women work this way too. They must give conflicting signals in order to avoid getting gamed. Only by watching you flop around trying to understand what they say they want, can they gather enough data to infer your true character.
There will never be a general success formula for any of these realms, because the payoffs (salary / money / womb-space) are too big.
It can be done. I did it (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, I KNOW it can be done. I made a quite insane journey from traditional wooden boatbuilding to computer programmer. It took me a long time, because I got distracted by actually working in IT support (at quite a decent paid level, 3rd line network support), but it could have been done quicker.
I had no degree (a failed attempt at economics), not a single qualification in computing, and a work history as a guitar teacher and a boatbuilder, and yet I managed to shift into IT, and then into coding. This is how I did it:
1) I went to evening classes and got some C and C++ exams under my belt.
2) I coded some ganmes from scratch and started selling them, giving me something visually impressive on my CV
3) I didn't hide my previous jobs. In fact, I think they helped my CV to stand out
4) I acted confident about getting every job I went to. Being an ex-musician helped in this. No interview for a job is as scary as playing a gig to a bunch of drunk Hells Angels on a saturday night.
When I was a boatbuilder, the most hi-tech equipment we had was a telephone. We didn't even have electric screwdrivers, or for that matter, plumbing. The floor was sawdust on concrete. If I can go from that environment to lead programmer, then anyone can do it. That doesn't mean it isn't extremely fucking hard to do so, but I can assure you it is doable.
Re:IT != Programming (Score:3, Interesting)
You're quite correct to distinguish between "information technology" in the strictest sense and programming. (And other computer/network disciplines, for that matter.) But the looser sense is pretty common, and it's not going to go away.
It's sort of like another bit of loose terminology I've stopped objecting to (and even started using myself): "broadband" as in "lots of bandwidth". If you know about the broadband/baseband distinction, the now-common usage sounds kind of dumb. But there's no getting rid of it.
And at least with "broadband" you can actually point at a concept and explain why people are misusing the word. When it comes to "information technology" it's not at all obvious why programming, or any other discipline that's about manipulating information, isn't part of it.