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Canonical To Remove Sun Java From Repositories, Users' Machines

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  • An the point is? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tibit (1762298) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:37AM (#38416110)

    To shoot oneself in the foot?! I just don't get it. Wouldn't Oracle want to have their platform deployed as widely as possible? Someone's asleep at the helm. Just like at the media companies. Seems some big corporations these days are like chicken running around headless...

    • by cpghost (719344) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:05AM (#38416324) Homepage
      That's oh so typical of Oracle, even before they swallowed up SUN. They don't want the unwashed masses to touch their products (Database, Solaris, SPARC, now Java?, ...). This elitist mentality was part of their DNA makeup from the very beginning.
    • by Trepidity (597)

      I think they've more or less given up on Java as a desktop platform, and are focusing on a mixture of enterprise (all that J2EE and Java Beans stuff) and mobile (hence the Google lawsuit).

      • by xelah (176252)
        Except, of course, a lot of the enterprise business depends on Java clients on desktops to talk to all those J2EE servers. Hence, say, JavaFX.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Wouldn't Oracle want to have their platform deployed as widely as possible?

      What Oracle wants is money, they don't care anything else. The new license forced Debian to stop distributing Oracle Java from the non-free repositories, I'm not surprised this happens to Canonical.

      • Re:An the point is? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by amiga3D (567632) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:47AM (#38416674)

        It's being replace by OpenJDK. It was planned to happen like this for years. This was planned obsolescence with a gradual move to OpenJDK. Their is no surprise here except for those who didn't know it was coming. The summary is inflammatory but if you read the article you see that this is nothing really.

        • by ae1294 (1547521)

          It's being replace by OpenJDK. It was planned to happen like this for years. This was planned obsolescence with a gradual move to OpenJDK. Their is no surprise here except for those who didn't know it was coming. The summary is inflammatory but if you read the article you see that this is nothing really.

          Well the last time I tried OpenJDK with freenet it didn't work right. That was about a year ago. I wonder if that has been fixed. I guess I will find out.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by David Gerard (12369)

      I have ten years' Solaris experience. Oracle buying Sun was when I took my boss and my boss's boss aside and strongly put the case that we needed to get the hell off Solaris immediately and go to Linux. (That I was advocating against my own CV was persuasive in itself.)

      We commissioned a new box (12-core x86) to run a proprietary Java app; Linux versus Solaris would have made no difference; but Oracle charged another £300 for one year's Solaris licensing when CentOS was free. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HE

  • Bad summary! (Score:5, Informative)

    by xavdeman (946931) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:40AM (#38416128)
    From the article: "Oracle, in retiring the ‘Operating System Distributor License for Java’, means Canonical no longer have permission to distribute the package." So it's not that Oracle has lost their right to distribute Java (JDK) or something, but they are retiring the license Canonical is using that granted them the right to distribute it with Ubuntu. The summary also states (correctly) that Ubuntu will remove the sun-java package from the repository and user's machines, but does not state why: “Due to the severity of the security risk, Canonical is immediately releasing a security update for the Sun JDK browser plugin which will disable the plugin on all machines.” Ubuntu’s Marc Deslauriers wrote in a mail to the Ubuntu Security Mailing list. “This will mitigate users’ risk from malicious websites exploiting the vulnerable version of the Sun JDK.” Summarizing: there are two things going on here, one is that Oracle has revoked the license Canonical is using to distribute Java (JDK) freely so it will not come with Ubuntu anymore. Java must now be downloaded from Oracle's site. Second: The java jdk package will be removed from user's computers because of severe security holes. Java must now be downloaded from Oracle's site. So, two things, one article and one terrible summary.
    • Re:Bad summary! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:44AM (#38416168)

      OpenJDK is still the default, and still distributed. And like TFA pointed out, the Sun/Oracle version is old and has security issues anyway.

      • by Nerdfest (867930)
        The unfortunate part is that there seem to be some applications that only seem to like "Sun Java v6" that comes from the repositories. I've tried the manual install of Java 7 from oracle, and Open JDK and neither work for them. I may have to leave the exploitable version installed just to use this software (and only this software, hopefully).
        • Remove the distro package, do the fiddling about to hand-install from the Oracle tarball for Sun Java 6 latest. We're doing something similar at work. (Well, I'll be handrolling a deb for internal maintainability, but I'll be starting with the Oracle tarball.)

        • by sjames (1099)

          That sort of thing has plagued Java from day one. It's never been more than write once, run anywhere that has exactly the same JVM down to the sub-sub-minor version. That seems to be improving, but can't be said to be fixed entirely. Back when Sun was pushing Java on the desktop they had a lot of complaints internally about having to have 3 versions of Java installed to cover these issues.

          • We got bitten at this at work between Sun Java 6 on Solaris SPARC versus Sun Java 6 on Linux x86. What the fuck.

            • I use Java as little as possible, and still run into these kinds of problems. I run Arch Linux, which right now has an openjdk6 and a jdk7-openjdk package. There was a a package based on Sun's Java, but it seems to be gone. Really annoying to have to switch between packages to get various Java apps to run, or to find that none of them work.

              This sort of thing is one reason I've stayed away from Java. It's general distrust of anything that could be proprietary, no matter how open it seems. It's not eve

  • OpenJDK (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:40AM (#38416136)

    Sensationalist headline is sensationalist.

    Ubuntu will still have the OpenJDK, which is maintained in part by Oracle. "Sun Java" refers to a specific JVM installation.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You meant
      "Ubuntu will still have the OpenJDK, which is not actually working for most stuff"
      And alternatively users can download the JRE 7 from Oracle, which also does not work for a lot of stuff.
      Great help that.
      Java: Fails everywhere.

      • Why is this flamebait? Its utterly accurate. I havent been able to deploy Java7 anywhere, mostly because i havent found more than 1 program (minecraft) which actually works with it.

    • Re:OpenJDK (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Svartalf (2997) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:04PM (#38416798) Homepage

      It's not about them no longer supplying it, but actually ripping it out of your box. They've already distributed it, and under an appropriate license- it wasn't leased out and the license doesn't require removal once the license is retired.

      It does not make any sense to do what Canonical's doing here. Not happy about that thinking.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:41AM (#38416140)

    All the while OpenJDK still doesn't work with half of the stuff out there, for example Juniper's SSL VPN.
    Great! Java: Compile once, works nowhere.

  • Let's hope they handle this well (aka a de updater that lets people know what and why it happens).
    I am critical about ubuntu usually, and I can almost hear some bearded guy saying: "Told you so, next time learn to build upon Free Software instead". But I think this time they would have rather avoided this and they couldn't.

    I dunno, the industry seems to be killing java and flash ahead of time.

  • by xee (128376) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:46AM (#38416182) Journal

    Ubuntu uses OpenJDK Java by default. Users have for years had the option to switch out the default OpenJDK Java for an alternative package in the 3rd party repository which is Sun Java. That alternative is being removed. In fact, it has never been available in the latest Oneiric 11.10 release of ubuntu. In the latest release OpenJDK is the default & the only java available from the package repos.

    Most people use OpenJDK on Ubuntu and for them this news means nothing.

    If you're using an older release (11.04 or earlier) and you have sun-java installed, simply remove the package & install default-jdk. problem solved.

    • by decora (1710862) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:07AM (#38416350) Journal

      with a different water pump. problem solved!!!

      other than your car being out of commission for several days, and untold problems being encountered due to the incompatabilities between the old water pump and the new water pump. but whatever.

      in the fantasy land of free software, you can replace word with openoffice, exchange with ????, and it wont cost anyone anything!

      • by Waffle Iron (339739) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:23AM (#38416462)

        Continuing this stupid analogy: Your current water pump has security issues. Thieves can use it to steal your car! It has to be replaced, even if you're so incompetent that it takes you "several days" to get the job done.

        Ubuntu no longer has access to OEM pumps, due to decisions made by the manufacturer. If Ubuntu's 3rd-party pump won't work for you, you can still go directly to the OEM, download the exact replacement pump and install it, for free.

        • by xee (128376) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:37AM (#38416590) Journal

          You're confused. OpenJDK is the OEM pump in Ubuntu. Sun java is the aftermarket optional part which isn't an available option on ubuntu cars anymore. (Though you can still do it yourself.)

      • by xee (128376) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:23AM (#38416464) Journal

        Exactly! You already replaced your car's stock water pump with some aftermarket thing, now that's not working out so well for you. So do the right thing and replace that aftermarket water pump with an OEM part like the car came with.

        • by dotancohen (1015143) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @01:23PM (#38417414) Homepage

          Exactly! You already replaced your car's stock water pump with some aftermarket thing, now that's not working out so well for you. So do the right thing and replace that aftermarket water pump with an OEM part like the car came with.

          That OEM water pump wouldn't pump the water that I need, that is why I installed the aftermarket pump which happens to support _all_ water. Now, so long as I only use some water that was tested with the OEM pump I'm fine, but if I need water that was only tested on the aftermarket pump (which most water is, because the aftermarket pump works on all cars, not just geeky cars) then now I'm screwed.

  • Why does Canonical even need a "Operating System Distributor License" for Java? Wasn't Java re-licensed as GPL v2 back in the Sun days? How can they stop anyone from distributing something under the GPL?

    • by Trepidity (597) <delirium-slashdot&hackish,org> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:08AM (#38416354)

      OpenJDK is based on the open-sourced version of Java, and Canonical continues to distribute that (and it's the default on Ubuntu). What's being removed is the official Sun (now Oracle) Java packages. They used to include those as well, because there were some compatibility issues with OpenJDK and some apps (especially commercial apps).

    • by dominux (731134)

      because this particular version that is being retired is not the GPL version. It is the yuccy non-free edition and being proprietary software you are using it at the whim of the copyright owner (Oracle) and not by the user. It is also buggy and insecure. It is being removed from users machines because it is buggy and insecure. If you want the GPL version that is safe to use long term and is actually in Ubuntu (rather than in the *canonical* partner repo) then use openJDK which is GPL licensed and you use it

  • by strredwolf (532) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:52AM (#38416244) Homepage Journal

    Gentoo saw the license expiring, and did a proactive thing: flipped the "fetch restriction" flag back on, forcing users to pull it manually and slap it into the right place to install/upgrade.

    • by Rich0 (548339)

      Gentoo is a bit unique in this regard. Gentoo tends to distribute source tarballs unmodified, and does any patching on the user's machine. That allows it to operate under more restrictive licenses. Then, if there is no license at all then we can use mirror or fetch restricting. The former prevents the file from being mirrored so that the user gets it straight from upstream. If upstream puts it behind some kind of click-to-agree page then it uses fetch restricting, which means the user is told where to

  • First - I want to see in the license where it requires them to pull it off systems.

    Second - What the hell are they going to replace it with? Are they saying you have to download and install Java manually? OpenJDK supposedly doesn't work with all things.

    Third - What does this mean for Ubuntu derivatives like Mint? Are they going to have to pull the jdk as well?

    Forth - Can we _please_ take up a collection to have the Oracle execs framed for terrorism and shipped off to Gitmo?

    Honestly this is just stupi
    • by WorBlux (1751716)
      First, it doesn't but it prevents the distribution of security fixes, leaving systems where it is still installed vulnerable to publicly available exploits. Second nothing, you'll have to manage updates by yourself if you want the Sun JVK. Third, not certain, but likely. Fourth, no.
  • I just checked and i'm showing OpenJDK

    • That has been the default for some time now. The only reason to install sun-java-6 is if that is the target runtime for, say, a production Java application you happen to be writing, especially if you rely on esoteric command line arguments (-XX:MaxPermSize for example). So while it's not the end of the world, it certainly will cost a day or two of productivity for many Java developers and admins running Ubuntu as they will need to install the official Oracle packages, update alternatives, change symbolic

  • by David Gerard (12369) <slashdot@@@davidgerard...co...uk> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:26AM (#38416488) Homepage

    I work in a Java shop. We run Sun Java 6 on a mix of Solaris and Ubuntu. I'll be handrolling a deb [github.com] from the Sun Java tarball precisely because not everything can be trusted to work identically between Sun Java 6 and OpenJDK 6.

    We just recently hit a weird bug which turned out to be a "how did that ever work?" moment - revolving around different implementation-specific behaviours in Sun Java 6u24 for Solaris SPARC and Sun Java 6u26 for Linux.

    We'll be moving to OpenJDK, but only after thorough testing. OpenJDK 6 is a proper Java, but we've discovered the hard way not to make any such move without thorough testing. Because programmers are human and bugs happen. Never trust, always verify.

  • Uncool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:53PM (#38417196) Homepage Journal

    I can understand pulling it from the repositories for future installs, but from a user that installed it while the license was still in effect? Really uncool.

    Aside from pissing people off in general, just think of all the production servers they may kill by doing this. And the lost customers, time, money..

  • by MoFoQ (584566) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @01:03PM (#38417258)

    dunno about this.
    I ran into an issue lately that only happens with OpenJDK (specifically OpenJDK's implementation of Java Webstart) which was only remedied by installing .....gawd...loathe to say it..."Oracle" Java and by removing OpenJDK.

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