Should Developers Support Windows Phone 8? 345
Un pobre guey writes "Should you develop apps for Windows 8? Well, the hype and flogging are apparently in full swing. From the article: 'To be clear, Windows Phone 8 is not a slam dunk. Some, such as IDC, believe Windows Phone will eclipse iOS by 2016. Others, though, believe the trajectories of Android and iOS can't be slowed in the next few years. Nonetheless, I think a bet on Windows Phone 8 is justifiable, even wise, since anyone who purchases a new Windows Phone 8 device likely will want to load it with the latest and greatest apps.'"
Another reader points out that the full Windows Phone 8 SDK was leaked online recently, which led to some interesting discoveries: "For starters, it appears that the API is very much like the full WinRT API, but it has no JavaScript support. There is also no support for creating and working with Silverlight/XNA style. This is a bit surprising because I and most developers were under the impression that Microsoft would support the migration of Silverlight apps to HTML5 and JavaScript, but there isn't even support for JavaScript to access the phone's services. The best you can hope for is using the JavaScript support in IE10."
if your app screams on Windows Phone 8 (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, so will there really be much of a market when most fanbois will be getting x86 Windows 8 devices and skipping on Metro? Without any support on the desktop/laptop side what does Windows Phone 8 have going for it to attract developers? Single digit market share for many years should be expected with WP8 while Android and iOS split the market and continue to grow.
Just like WP6.5 and WP7, it won't matter how many hundreds of millions or even billions in marketing Microsoft spends, without the ability to eliminate Android from the market WP8 gets no love outside of Redmond WA. IMO
LoB
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The key seems to be their integration strategy moving forward. You can't really avoid Metro in windows 8, there's a desktop there, but it's decidedly second fiddle to metro.
By this time next year I expect they're planning to have a full range of integrated products. Windows 8 desktop, tablet, phone, windows 8 phone or tablet connecting your PC or Xbox as something, a mechanism to better manage programs on windows 8 etc.
Ultimately supporting windows phone 8 is going to just be supporting windows 8. You ma
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I think gaming might be Microsofts big ace up its sleeve so to speak. Xbox integration in a useful way could move a few million phones potentially. Then you could get into things like save game portability between PC (or Xbox) and your mobile, and that could actually be something that would move units. Assuming people can figure out how to use it.
Will it sell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Will it sell? So far their phones haven't sold in any volume, even Samsungs Bada OS has sold double that.
Will you gain a skill useful elsewhere? I doubt this platform will be used anywhere else, their platforms are very fragmented at this point.
Will it succeed in a niche? Erm, well no, can't think of a niche for it.
I noted the cost ($10k) MS was charging XBox games developers to certify every app and patch and I reckon if you ever make a successful app, they'll milk all the profits out in certification fees and fees to be included in the app store.
I see FP is in love with Visual Studio, but you're probably better off getting up to speed with Eclipse at this point.
No. (Score:5, Insightful)
Betteridge saves the day again! [wikipedia.org]
Does Betteridge's law apply to my post? (Score:2, Funny)
No.
No. (Score:5, Informative)
No.
(Score:5, Informative)
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(Score:-1, Troll)
Just seeing if it works.
(Score:4, Insightful)
Apparently not...
Betteridge's Law (OH SNAP!) (Score:5, Interesting)
I am a Windows developer but if I'm going to develop smartphone apps it'll be for whoever offers me the biggest market: Android and the iPhone. Microsoft has a perfectly decent desktop OS, but instead of finding ways to reinvigorate the desktop using innovative technology (the way Jobs would have) they are chasing the smartphone market in a way that spooks desktop developers such as myself. I find myself not thinking "Windows for Smartphone" and now not even "Windows for desktop" but "Android for Tablet". Microsoft needs to stop copying other people's ideas, but just because it's immoral but because it's a lousy business strategy: It didn't work for Bing, Zune or anything else they've copied lately. If Microsoft don't do a reality test here they're heading for an even bigger disaster as they scuttle their flagship platform.
Or in 2 words: Betteridge's Law.
Re:Betteridge's Law (OH SNAP!) (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed.
In order for a "me too" product to succeed in a marketplace full of similar products and establish itself as the new leader, it has to be twice as good as the current market leader.
None of Microsoft's "me too" products over the last 10 years have done this. Not even the xbox which comes in a distant second to the Wii as of June 30. Should anyone dispute that, because I know there are a lot of fanboys here:
All the previous Microsoft phone OSes have been market disasters, taking single-digit slices of the market pie. Mostly because they sucked outright.
Is WP 8 twice as good as Android or iOS or even Symbian? No. It's just another "me too" smartphone OS barely even with the others. Is the smartphone hardware from Nokia twice as good as the hardware from Apple or Samsung? The days of Nokia producing a superior product compared to its competitors are long gone.
The only way for a fair-to-middling product to succeed in a market already dominated by others is to "choke off the oxygen" of one of the competitors. But while this strategy may have been successful in the past, Microsoft doesn't seem to be able to cut off anyone's oxygen these days except when they teamkill one of their partners in the head.
So why does Ballmer and Microsoft think it deserves the top spot?
And anyone who puts a question in the headline deserves a ripened pine cone up the ass.
--
BMO
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It would be more interesting seeing statistics of sold games.
I know plenty of people who've bought one or more consoles.
The wii buyers seem to be the least likely to buy games since most are shallow crap.
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The wii buyers seem to be the least likely to buy games since most are shallow crap.
Right, because there's nothing "shallow" about the 32,768th first-person shooter that is basically a reskinning of the 32,767 that came before...
The truth is that the Wii has the best game library of any console, and a large portion of this consists of first-party Nintendo products. If this weren't the case, the Wii wouldn't have sold, because it's technologically inferior to the other consoles in most respects. The sales [wikipedia.org]
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Those figures are misleading, games sales do not print the same picture, not event [sic] close.
Indeed – the games sales figures are far more lopsided in favor of the Wii over the Xbox 360 [wikipedia.org] than the console sales figures. The best-selling Xbox 360 game, Kinect Adventures, sold 18 million copies. The Wii has seven games that sold more than that, with Wii Sports at 79.6 million copies blowing everything else away.
Re:Betteridge's Law (OH SNAP!) (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is... there aren't that many of you. .NET is a terrific compiler and a good technology stack. By any reasonable measures vastly richer than the stack for the web. Yet year after year after year more and more software migrates to the web and web based technologies. The rich exciting market for new native applications is happening in XCode for iOS. There market is scuttled. It may very well have happened in the move from COM to .NET but it has already happened.
No one else offers ubiquitous computing with full functioning business productivity software available on every device a person owns. No one else is even trying. I don't know whether Microsoft will be successful in their Windows 8 strategy or not. But I wouldn't accuse them of copying. Their vision is bold.
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No one else offers ubiquitous computing with full functioning business productivity software available on every device a person owns. No one else is even trying.
Thats because the smart developers ensure their software uses open standards so that they don't need to make their software available on every device a person owns - other people will do it for them, and the various softwares from different vendors will interoperate. MS, on the other hand, try to lock up all their standards so no one can write interoperable software, which means that MS have to support all types of device (note: all _types_ of device, not all devices - I can't get Windows Phone for my Sams
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There are two issues here: .NET a terrific compiler: i.e. feature rich, fast, .... .NET compatible with other compilers.
1) Is
2) Is
Arguably (1) and (2) are opposites. .NET is more advanced than the standards. Type safety is a good example of this. It is a feature of the compiler. By making it a requirement you are absolutely correct that makes porting from a low level language complex, maybe even a full on rewrite. But I don't see how that's a failure of .NET.
It seems to me with neither Microsoft, nor A
The real question is... (Score:2)
The platform itself is very much comparable to iPhone or Android, and even had some nifty features that stood out from the competition when it first came out: Live Tiles and the People hub to name two. I don't know why developers never took to the platform -- there isn't a reason they shouldn't support it, and whether WP8 will change their minds remains to be seen.
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There is a very good reason they shouldn't support it. Windows mobile usage fell 40% in the last 3 years, that is during a time when the size of the market tripled. The reason developers never took to the platform is because customers won't buy it.
Re:The real question is... (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know why developers never took to the platform -- there isn't a reason they shouldn't support it, and whether WP8 will change their minds remains to be seen.
I can think of two simple reasons:
1) There aren't many users.
2) Since WP7 didn't support C/C++ code, you can't just port your app and write a new GUI (like you can for iPhone and Android), you have to write the whole thing from scratch. Is that worth the effort? Probably not, because of 1.
Re:The real question is... (Score:4, Interesting)
Having few users isn't that big of an issue. For example my games on Mac far outsell my windows games because of two simple reasons: far less competition from competitors, and less piracy. Even though the Mac market is 1/10th the size. You can charge more and face less competition on wp8. The #1 dead in the water issue is not supporting c++ for me. There is no way in hell I'm porting my code base and games to some proprietary ms language that will be abandoned in a few years. Wp8 would have to hold over 50% of the market for me to make that leap.
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So then, WP8 removes the obstacle that WP7 had. You should be able to port your C++ logic, unless you have intertwined it too tightly with the UI code (and if you already have ports for Mac/iOS/Android, you have learned not to do that).
Dead OS walking (Score:3, Insightful)
Windows Phone 8 isn't even out yet and it's already irrelevant.
No one wants it:
End users don't want it because the launch phones are uninspiring and lag the competition in both specs and style. Besides, it's Windows. Who chooses Windows if they have an affordable alternative with all the apps they need?
Developers don't want it because it lacks users and so far the platform looks less capable than either iOS or Android. It's also not a sure thing in the marketplace long-term, MS has already made developers for their mobile platform redevelop everything TWICE, so any development investment has a good chance of being wasted. Backwards compatibility used to be one of Microsoft's big things, but not on mobile.
Corporates don't want it because it doesn't yet have the central management facilities that iOS, Android and especially BlackBerry have. Its basically a brand new OS for mobile and corporates take time to make decisions and switch. Meanwhile, Android and iOS are taking over and show no signs of stopping.
Also, after Windows 8 comes out for desktops, Metro is going to be the least popular user interface style on the planet after it catastrophises everyone's Windows desktop experience. This does not make for a popular phone OS.
In short: Windows Phone 8 is dead already, it's just Steve Ballmer is too desperate to keep his job to notice.
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Also, after Windows 8 comes out for desktops, Metro is going to be the least popular user interface style on the planet after it catastrophises everyone's Windows desktop experience.
I agree with everything you wrote till this. I don't know that this is true. Its entirely possible that the mixture of mouse, keyboard, voice, touch, stylus with all the different forms of breaking off screens and keyboards is such an amazing computing experience that it becomes the future. Obviously disaster is more likely
Re:Dead OS walking (Score:5, Insightful)
Its entirely possible that the mixture of mouse, keyboard, voice, touch, stylus with all the different forms of breaking off screens and keyboards is such an amazing computing experience that it becomes the future. Obviously disaster is more likely, but the vision here is rather bold and exciting.
Sure the vision of Metro is good, but the implementation of it on Windows 8 desktop, with the constant jarring between the familiar desktop and the Metro launcher/start menu, is going to send desktop Windows users mad. For most people the desktop Windows 8 Metro start menu is going to be the first time they've seen the Metro style, and so far it doesn't look like it works well there, not with the keyboard and mouse that most will be using it with.
My suspicion is that it will engender such a dislike for Metro that it will actually put people off Metro altogether - the exact opposite of what Microsoft are hoping will happen, and not good for WP8.
XNA (Score:2)
An immature marketplace is a good thing for devs (Score:2)
Should? Who are you asking? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is what phone/OS a developer supports supposed to be up to some groupthink decision based on some "prevailing wisdom?"
I may be picking a few nits but this seems to be a thinly veiled form of Begging The Question considering the obvious bias in the submission.
I thought they would pull up, not so much now (Score:5, Insightful)
I really thought Microsoft had a chance with WP7. I said repeatedly they could at least show a strong third place, possibly even take over Android's position.
This was based on WP7 being really well designed, Nokia hardware being really good, and Microsoft pouring a ton of money into having a really competitive app market.
But Microsoft has screwed this all up. WP7 developers have to re-work how they develop. Hardware that should have formed the base of a wave today, will not even support WP8 tomorrow!
Microsoft is still pouring a ton on money into app development but as far as introducing platforms, it's like they are starting from scratch AGAIN and WP7 never happened. They were late before, now they are WAY too late.
Perhaps they can still pull back. Perhaps Surface will do really well and drag WP8 along behind it. But they have a massive uphill climb now, that they made worse by digging down a mile or so to start with.
Good luck Microsoft, and I say that because Apple and the market in general need strong competition... but the odds look long and I hope you realize that.
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WP8 runs ALL WP7 applications, so how is that like WP7 never happened?
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It's my understanding they have changed the development model (moving away from Silverlight), so that people who have learned how to program WP7 will have to do so differently for WP8....
Just having the apps work is not enough, you have to build a base of developers that can keep cranking out applications - not throwing hurdles into how those apps are developed.
Infrastructure? (Score:2, Insightful)
Smart phones may be cool and all, but the infrastructure is missing - the network coverage is simply not good enough and what there is, is not too reliable. It may be good enough for those that mostly use messaging, but when your business depends on you being accessible and on the move, it is no good. You can't have a conversation if you lose signal every few minutes.
The thing is, once you get past the wow-factor of the iPhone et al, what you have is basically a clumsy mobile phone and a computer that is to
Should Developers Support Windows Phone 8? (Score:2)
Longer answer: Has any Windows phone really been THAT successful?
I am being sincere too. I have worked for a wireless company that I will leave nameless for over 5yrs and NO Windows phone was ever worth it. Not in the slightest.
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I would not really consider developing for Windows Phone as it is now. Their earlier platforms were incomplete for developers and the backward compatibility for apps seems to be ignored so every new generation from Microsoft has so far required a rewrite of the app.
Add to this the fact that Android and iOS are the big players right now. The existence of free apps may not by themselves generate much income but the amount of free apps are an indication of how large the developer community is - and their compe
Support C/C++/OpenGL, make porting easier (Score:5, Insightful)
Suppose you've already got a game where most of the core code is written in C++ and uses OpenGL. Right there, you're hitting iOS and Android (assuming a minimal amount of Objective-C &Java simply for integrating into the platform).
Now you've got a decision: work on some cool, valuable features for the next version of the Android/iOS game, or completely re-write it using the Microsoftie languages, technologies, and UI idioms they force you to use, and have to maintain two code bases. I know which one I'd choose
Windows Phone is not going to get any real developer love until they give in and stop forcing their technology stack on us.
Microsoft, while you're bootstrapping your platform and trying to attract developers, wouldn't it make sense to make porting easier?
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C & C++ will be there, but I wouldn't hold your breath over OpenGL.
belief (Score:2)
[quote]belief (noun): conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence[/quote] (m-w.com)
I don't see much evidence or reality in believing WP8 will eclipse anything at all. I don't believe anyone should base development decisions on the beliefs of others who seemingly don't know any better.
If anything, our collective experience should tell us that th
That depends (Score:2)
Do you want to have a secure job maintaining those legacy systems like maintaining IE6 only webapps? Then fine go for it. If you want to have something that should still be used easily in 10 years, by all means no.
If you want something serious, use some cross-platform development system like Java or Lazarus and compile for whatever you want. Or you make a web application with a more abstract interface. For example by separating the user interface from the application logic.
Metro simply is yet another vendor
I would be getting into trouble explosing but (Score:5, Interesting)
So if you asked me whether developers should support Windows Phone 8....Sure, with a fee.
Microsoft is history, they just don't know it yet. (Score:2)
Windows Phone 8 is't good enough to do anything about Apples and Googles dominance in the market. Microsoft teamed up with a phone vendor that nobody wants anymore. Windows 8 is too late for the tablet market and will destroy the user experience of desktop PCs. With the forced installation of Windows 8 on the new PCs they will annoy a lot of customers. Computer noobs around the world start to ask questions about alternatives when they hear about the prices of upgrading their computer to the latest Microsoft
Didn't we already have this discussion? (Score:2)
Oh wait, that was for WP7 and WP7.5 and for every version before that with tons of different names and everyone of them was hailed as next coming of the Ballmer and all failed miserably. Usually the next coming doesn't even have the decency to wait until the previous prophet has bitten the dust. 7 wasn't even out when talk of 8 start and 7.5 wasn't even given a chance and current phones with it are pretty much sold with "yeah, it will be obsolete in a matter of months and you won't be able to upgrade". And
Its all about market share, and MS history (Score:4, Interesting)
The reasons are simple, just ask yourself "do I want Microsoft on my phone?". Yes, there is the answer. No. Nobody does. Microsoft became "uncool" long long ago. Nobody wants an uncool phone.
Microsoft missed the one boat that could have maybe just maybe gave them a fast start in the marketplace, they could have purchased RIM. They could of done away with the old timer brand "windows" for a smartphone, and used "Blackberry". Fact is, when people think about Windows they think about an antiquated PC, not some latest and greatest gotta have it smartphone. Add to the fact that Windows has very little, if any, brand loyalty. People don't feel connected to Windows as something that is a good brand. They think of it as the commodity PC, exactly the monopoly that Microsoft built, and profited from since inception.
The veeps at MS need someone cool to step through the door and get through their thick skulls that "Microsoft, Windows, Windows Mobile, Office" will never be "cool" brands. The brand will always be kind of like "Hormel" in the food space. Even if they did everything right and created the best smartphone OS out there, the masses don't want to be carrying a "Hormel Phone"
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Let me play devil's advocate here and say that the question is probably too vague to be meaningful. Developers should support the devices that the bulk of their target market wants. You might think *nobody* wants to use Windows Phone 8, but there are market segments which in the *grand* scheme of things might amount to nothing, but which could provide a good living for a small developer. Sometimes, a *single* client can carry your business for several years; other times an early adopter is your foot in th
Separate the Enterprise Crap! (Score:3)
Also everything was becoming way more complicated than it needed to be. Instead of some simple object you would instantiate and then call member functions it was all wonky with
So if Windows wants any chance for me to even look at programming for their devices I will only look if they break up their SDK into a basic SDK that will allow me access to those phone types bits such as the screen, audio, accelerometer, messaging, networking, etc. Then if I want to screw with outlook or other MS products then I will install a separate addon SDK.
Also with the SDK I don't want to follow some new fad that MS happens to be following. Just give me basic system calls with more advanced calls hidden away for more advanced features. So for sound give me a sound class with member functions such as PlaySound(soundfile). Don't initially make me use a DirectX complicated sound system that is so complicated that I end up just copying and pasting sample code blindly into my software and then hiding it behind my own PlaySound(soundfile) function. For those people who are hardcore give them a backdoor where things are necessarily weird.
So here is a bit of code that I want to be able to write (sans error handling and async stuff):
Net *net=new Network();
MSData *data=net->getFile('http://mysite.com/sound.mp3');
SoundSystem *sound_system=new SoundSystem();
sound_system->setVolume(100);
sound_system->playSound(data);
Don't make each of the above steps 10 lines long with all kinds of complicated templates and parameters. When you do that you might impress your CS professor but you have missed the point of encapsulation and the KISS principle. I love an SDK where you can start to guess the class names and the names of their member functions. So if you have a class called SoundInitSys3BuildFactory that requires that you pass it (MS_HRDWR_SYS_SPKR_EAR_HEAR2) you have failed. I would be willing to bet that MS has failed.
MS might make all kinds of arguments about good CS practices but at this point I have already bent over backwards to learn Objective-C for the iPhone. I did this because it was where the money was. But iPhone had the advantage of the being the first smartphone where the effort might pay off. At this point MS needs to study the concept of friction. For every small obstacle they put in people's way they can plan on loosing a fair chunk of their potential audience.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Interesting)
Worse still, given the amount of rework which devs will need to undertake to port their existing Windows Phone 7 apps to Windows Phone 8 (for the use of the WinRT API, for example). This is a baffling move, and given the history of the Windows Mobile line.... it's getting to be a bit rich.
Also, I disagree that the market place is mature. There's not nearly a large enough user base to make that statement, and hearing that Windows Phone 7 handsets won't support an upgrade to Windows Phone 8 may hurt.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad thing is, if Windows Phone devices were at least as open as Windows Mobile was on real phones like the PPC6700 (ie, not open source, but no bootloader locks or other impediments to having fun), it would probably be a viable contender, if only because Android has been out now for ~3-4 years, fatigue over locked-down hardware and the stupid kernel-ABI problem that breaks every fscking non-opensource driver on phones every time Google releases a new version is setting in, and claims about its "openness" are starting to feel more like cruel teasing.
Unfortunately, Windows Phone is a Microsoft Cargo Cult. Microsoft makes design decisions blindly mimicking Apple, with no apparent understanding of why Apple did it and/or the practical consequences of doing so. It's a phone with random, conflicting agendas that serves none of them well. Imagine how Android would have stagnated during its first 2 years if XDA-Developers.com hadn't existed to push the envelope and give it features it didn't officially have yet. It's like Microsoft studied everything that Android owners hate about Android, then made a point of doing the same things even more forcefully. It's like a repeat of pre-Nexus One Android. Windows Phone devices are sold with underpowered hardware that doesn't have enough flash or ram to survive even a single major OS upgrade, and Microsoft tries to sell devices that are basically paperweights after 3-9 months because they refuse to even go through the MOTIONS of giving them enough headroom to grow and evolve for at least a year or two.
Nobody sane is going to knowingly buy a phone that has no short-term future. When somebody buys a new phone, they don't give a damn if the PLATFORM will be around for years. They care about the specific piece of hardware they're holding in their hands. If that device has no future and has a visible EOL before it's even a month old, the platform itself might as well shrivel up and die, because nobody is going to view it as anything besides a waste of time. It's like Microsoft learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the OVERNIGHT (literally) loss of 97% of their Windows Mobile user base to Android the moment they announced that Windows Mobile was officially dead, and their final phone officially had no future because it had 4 buttons with the wrong symbols printed on them instead of the three officially-approved ones. Apparently, they were deluded enough to think people would keep buying an EOL'ed phone whose future was officially declared to be nonexistent.
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Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:4, Informative)
Silverlight and XNA will be supported [windowsteamblog.com] on WP8.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Insightful)
face it, the days of people spending $20 on stupid beer drinking and fart apps are long over.. this is why most mobile devs saying stuff like this are butthurt.. people won't pay for crap anymore. they will however pay for substantial apps that are reliable at the required task....on any platform.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:4, Interesting)
Mod this up.
Most apps are crap that barely works, and that includes iOS and Android. Crap like that usually does not fly on a PC or a Mac.
The ones that are coded somewhat well, are barely even worth 99c. People are getting wise to that and don't want to spend a ton of money on something that gives them very little return.
If a developer really wants money then they need to deliver a truly working app with a lot of useful features. Angry Birds makes money because it is not only written well with few bugs, but is also an engaging game with more than just a few levels.
Make something really good and you will get paid.
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Make something really good and you will get paid.
Most people who play Angry Birds haven't paid a penny for it.
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Article and the first time poster at #1 both stink of marketing stunts. Also do you even know anybody that has a windows phone? I doubt my friends even know Microsoft is in this market. I think they could steal some corporate market away from blackberry if they thrown in good exchange/vpn support I personally hate the blackberrys my company uses they break often and drop calls daily
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Hey, ease up, Microsoft Marketing guys gotta eat too. Its not even smoke... yeah, its fog, and he's not blowing it, he's just forcefully exhaling it up your pant leg. If it any of it get's up your ass... is it really his fault? Cut him a break.
not cutting him a break (Score:5, Insightful)
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They're not even shills. It's the same crap as the people shouting "First post!". Being a pretend shill is just the new go-to troll in Apple/Microsoft stories because it invokes a bigger reaction.
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They're not even shills. It's the same crap as the people shouting "First post!". Being a pretend shill is just the new go-to troll in Apple/Microsoft stories because it invokes a bigger reaction.
Do pretend shills get paid in virtual beers?
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet another slashdotter with a whopping 2 posts to their name, a 7-digit UID, no karma to speak of, who managed to land on the site right as this article was posting to drop some praise for MS. Hey look, you got the achievement "posted a comment" today, but Im sure this is an honest opinion, right? Just happened to be a positive comment about MS 60 seconds after an article on MS was submitted?
You all really do think we're stupid, huh? That we wont notice the EXACT SAME THING [slashdot.org] happening over and over?
Why didnt you manage to work any subtle jabs towards competitors in? Oh wait, you did, well done.
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Good catch. Thanks for finding that.
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You all really do think we're stupid, huh?
Apparently yes ... every time the community is in shock and upset. Half the comment so far are replying to this stupid and weak post.
Wake up, this is just an evolution of the "First Post" troller that found a new way to have the /. community actively react to their post again. This is a troll, this is not an genuine opinion, not a MS shill (let's be serious for a moment), the author probably does not give a shit about MS or Android or Apple, he is just a troll that gets his kick at all the outrage he cau
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Problem with this is that moderators browse comments at -1 so they will see it. And when they see it they will get Fscking annoyed and become trolling victims.
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I agree with the comments below about a 2nd post being this generic.
users of WP devices are filling to pay for apps.
Except their not. About 85-90% of the market is the iPhone store. There is no evidence that the Windows 7 store is any more successful than the: Android, Blackberry, Ovi (Nokia)...stores that each have a few percent. Further Windows mobile market share has been declining rapidly. Over the last 3 years your userbase has declined 40% while the market tripled in size.
As for Visual Studio
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filling?
So they send Microsoft letters asking for payable apps?
Won't anybody think of the children and put a payable app on the windows market place before they start rioting?!??!
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Not only is windows mobile market share declining rapidly, but its been fragmented... First with the incompatible windows phone 7 replacing previous versions, and now it looks like version 8 will break compatibility yet again.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps, but how many people use Windows phones?
Eleven.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
Nine, actually, I threw the Lumia they gave me into the sea. Didn't illuminate it well if you want to know.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps, but how many people use Windows phones?
Eleven.
Smirk all you want, but that number might double over the next year.
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Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps, but how many people use Windows phones?
Eleven.
360% increase in a year! That sure beats iOS and Android flat.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Funny)
On top of that Windows Phone 7/8 supports the fantastic developer tools that is Visual Studio. There is no better IDE around and I really wish I would have it on my OS X.
Surprised to see a macfag shilling for Microsoft.
That's offensive. Just because one uses Apple, does not mean they are gay. They are predominately metrosexual. There's a difference.
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or it could be the other way around.
(credits to Tim Minchin)
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Just because one uses Apple, does not mean they are gay. They are predominately metrosexual. There's a difference.
But isn't the Metro interface a Microsoft technology?
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On top of that Windows Phone 7/8 supports the fantastic developer tools that is Visual Studio. There is no better IDE around and I really wish I would have it on my OS X.
Surprised to see a macfag shilling for Microsoft.
I think it may be a tactic to keep me and the rest of the Apple butt pirates from modding him down. See, we automatically downmod anything pro-MS and pro-Linux. BSD gets a neutral. Pro-Apple is obviously a rainbow colored upmod (or stark white for newfag Macfags).
But, with a pro-MS, Apple owning, slightly negative (in that it points out something that can't be done on a Mac) against Mac post, some people may not know how to mod and leave it alone.
Re:Notes from part time developer (Score:5, Informative)
How does Microsoft make money off of Android?
By engaging in a patent war and bullying other corporations into just paying the extortion fee to use their highly questionable claims on the technology involved in Android.
MS is not the only doing this either. The whole thing is disgusting.
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I don't think the costs for the patent protection is that high. I really hope that the Apple vs. Samsung case will show us the terms. See http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120730152649225 [groklaw.net]
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I think this is the wrong way to see it. Maybe Win8 mobile (or win mobile 8, or phone 8 win, or whatever it's called) is the best proving ground for a new startup. If you manage to get rich there you can get rich anywhere!
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Microsoft hires Burson-Marsteller CEO Mark Penn
Mark Penn is the current CEO of astroturf and online sockpuppet firm Burson-Marsteller.
Microsoft Corp. said Thursday it has added Mark Penn as the company's corporate vice president, strategic and special projects.
Penn is expected to focus on consumer initiatives in his new role, reporting to Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) CEO and enthusiastic bottom Steve Ballmer. Penn, 58, is currently CEO of the public relations firm Burson-Marsteller and CEO of polling firm Penn S
Re:Possibly correct (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, maybe we are reading it wrong. Maybe the prediction that "WP8 will eclipse iOS by 2016" means that analyst thinks the 10 WP users will eclipse the 5 users left on iOS. It seems unlikely, but it seems just as likely as WP8 gaining as much market share as Apple has now.
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but MS does not get a pass on 6 and 6.5. Saying MS doesn't have fragmentation because their OS versions are too incompatible with each other to count isn't really a valid argument.
Saying that would be wrong anyway, 6 and 6.5 are Windows Mobile not Windows Phone, it's not just that they are incompatible, they are different products, the naming convention was simply to sync with the desktop OS version number. As a commenter below said, it's like complaining about fragmentation because Meego and Symbian aren't compatible.
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It is backwards compatible. [windowsteamblog.com]
Though, to be honest, not that it matters much with the current rather sorrowful state of WP7 app market...
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Re:Possibly correct (Score:5, Insightful)
Android doesn't really have fragmentation issues. Older apps run mostly fine on newer phones, and google supplies a compat library for newer apps to run on older phones.
What Android has is choice. Win Phone 7 didn't have that (specs set by MS). i don't know if Windows Phone 8 will or not. but it doesn't really matter because -
MS are not cool.
They're like your dad trying to dance at a nightclub. Even if he gets it right, he's still your dad and it's still highly embarassing.
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Not sure why I'm even bothering to reply to an AC but here goes - any fragmentation is really a perception and not reality, if you look into android development at even a surface level you can see that googel have gone out of their way to make apps work seemlessly across versions.
If you're referring to there being different versions of the OS out there then in light of the above that's pretty irrelevant. Piracy... you can do that on whatever platform you feel like, and they are making it harder on android n
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Good riddance. If you're so poorly educated that you think that the US has a free market, then we definitely don't need you around. The US has crony capitalism instead of a free market, otherwise it should be trivial to buy a computer without having either OSX or Windows installed and the laws would require MS to give full refunds conveniently for those not wishing to use their products.
Linux is better now than it ever was, provided you choose a sane distro.
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Re:Market Share (Score:5, Interesting)
What does that have to do with the fact that Android and iOS are vastly more popular than current generation Windows Phone for both users and developers? By breaking backwards compatibility with WP7 apps MS makes it easier to switch to a more popular OS.
Where are people getting this idea? Microsoft is automatically recompiling all WP7 apps to work with WP8 devices. No developer changes, submissions or work of any kind required. ALL WP7 apps will be fully compatible with WP8 on day 1.
Re:Market Share (Score:5, Informative)
Linux was a good idea, then the zealots got a hold of it and now its a pile of crap.
When exactly was it that "the zealots" wren't part of Linux? The GNU stuff was founded by zealots. The kernel came out of the Minix hobbyist community which have no interest in the sorts of standardization you are talking about.
Linux is crap, deal with it. Don't argue with me, don't lie to yourself, fix it.
Linux owns
-- a huge chunk of the server market
-- essentially all of the super computing market
-- a huge chunk of the embedded market
-- is becoming a major guest OS for new development on mainframe
The purpose of the GNU project was to create a free Unix on par with the commercial Unixes. Linux has killed off most off the commercial unixes. Digital Unix, , Irix, SCO are dead and HPUX, AIX and Solaris are on life support.
I don't think the Linux community has much to be unhappy about. That's a very successful OS by any standards and it achieved the goals of the GNU project. The enterprise and personal desktop market has had huge improvements since the mid 1990s and Linux hasn't been able to gain enough ground for those 2 segments. Oh well.
Re:Market Share (Score:4, Interesting)
The only problems Linux on Desktop have are: a) no big OEM support (Dell, Hp, Asus,) b) no commercial games. The only problems of hardware and adoption are the result of a) and b). If the big OEMs would support Linux on all their hardware and offer Linux on all their hardware as a pre-installed choice, almost all hardware problems would disappear. And if b) was solved and you could just go to Mediamarkt, Saturn or Bestbuy and buy some games, there would be no market anymore for Windows.
From the technological aspect Linux desktops are working very well. I'm using for 3 years Linux on my computers and laptops now without major problems. KDE is rock solid, so is Gnome2. Some people even like Gnome3.
There is even now a big market for problem b). Just see how well the Humble Game Package [wikipedia.org] have done. Sure there wasn't as many as Windows users, but Linux users were on par with MacOS users.
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Anyway: supercomputers: Linux, embedded: Linux, servers: Linux, desktop: Windows, Mac, Linux...
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Even though I'm not the slightest bit interested in owning a phone whose OS contains the word 'Windows', I would like to see a third significant competitor come along and shake things up a bit. I just don't get excited by putting faster processors in phones anymore.
Re:Why do we need windows phone 8? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Well, that's all fine and dandy - but Microsoft is going to OWN that other .00000001% biyatch!
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I don't know where the author got the idea that MS will migrate Silverlight to HTML and JS. Silverlight apps are supposed to be migrated to XAML apps which is practically the same but different enough to justify the use of the word "migration". Webocalypse is postponed in the MS world.
Re:JavaScript Worst Language Ever... (Score:4, Interesting)
It would make sense if it was like this. The Build conference had sessions on everything (JS/C#/C++) and explicitly made clear that all of these were first class citizens even in its slogan ("Use what you know..."). The HTML5 shitstorm started when MS first showed the new Metro land in WIndows 8 where they only mentioned HTML5 and JS so some people assumed that this was going to be the only way to develop Metro style apps which is of course wrong. The fire is fueled by people who wish that web tech would become the only way to develop apps on any platform. They constantly point this way of developing for Win8 despite the fact that it is on par with the other two ways. In fact the other 2 ways are slightly better. WinRT uses C# naming conventions and JS cannot create reusable WinRT components (only use them) while C++ and C# can.
While Silverlight as a framework is somewhat dead C# + XAML development is pretty much Silverlight in spirit. Your existing Silverlight apps will need to be rewritten but your Silverlight skills transfer pretty good. Silverlight developers can be quite happy about Win8 dev platform but companies that have invested in public facing Silverlight apps have a lot to worry about.
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Apps distributable outside of appstore
Android gives you that already.
No fragmentation issues either device capabilities, or OS version issues.
I don't see that ever happening. This would require all devices to have exactly the same capabilities - Apple managed that with the origional iPhone by virtue of there only being one device. However, the original iPhone was far too lacking in features to be of use to many of us, and all iPhones have been far too expensive for many (that's largely down to Apple's inflated pricing - the iPhone 4 and Nexus S are pretty much identical hardware, but the iPhone 4 was almost twice