TextMate 2 Released As Open Source 193
First time accepted submitter DaBombDotCom writes "Allan Odgaard, the author of the popular text editor for Mac OS X, TextMate, has posted on his blog: 'Today I am happy to announce that you can find the source for TextMate 2 on GitHub. I've always wanted to allow end-users to tinker with their environment, my ability to do this is what got me excited about programming in the first place, and it is why I created the bundles concept, but there are limits to how much a bundle can do, and with the still growing user base, I think the best move forward is to open source the program. The choice of license is GPL 3. This is partly to avoid a closed source fork and partly because the hacker in me wants all software to be free (as in speech), so in a time where our platform vendor is taking steps to limit our freedom, this is my small attempt of countering such trend.'"
It's about damn time (Score:2)
As someone who paid some shiny euros for v1 many many years ago and wondered if 2.0 was vaporware I'm kinda hopeful. At least now there's a chance this project will move forward. You'd think that after getting paid some BIG bucks for this text editor —for years —Allan would have the resources and the motivation to keep this thing going. As open source, I can see this as a solid competitor to the GPL'd jEdit.
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When I bought v1 I never had v2 in mind. Over the years I've always wondered what the fuss was about. Search is a bit tedious/slow, but it remains a great editor. I'd be very happy if Xcode was half as good in some respects.
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First thing that needs to happen is lose that platform-specific code. It's not going to get terribly far if it will only run in OS X, when it's competitors will run pretty much anywhere. It's a text editor.
Re:It's about damn time (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh hell no!
Mac users as a bunch tend to loathe GUI-critical software that "runs anywhere" (like anything Java, Air, and nix apps running under X11). This is also one of the things that makes TextMate specifically so great. It integrates with your Mac environment so seamlessly, it renders text fantastically, it uses UI conventions that you are accustomed to from native apps... etc, etc, etc, the list goes on.
If you want something like TextMate on a different platform, go ahead and bake your own. But don't try to suggest that not being able to run TextMate elsewhere is some kind of flaw.
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You can have both, as Sublime Text has proved — cross platform, and yet feels great on a Mac.
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I'm skeptical Sublime is any more platform independent than say, Google Chrome, MS Office, or Adobe Photoshop.*
Yes, there are versions of each designed for each platform, but this is not the same as tossing out platform-specific code in favor of platform independence. I.e., I have no qualms with someone porting TextEdit to other platforms, but the OP seemed to be suggesting literally making TextMate platform independent (like much other OSS out there).
---
* If Sublime truly 100% platform independent, wow...
Re:It's about damn time (Score:4, Insightful)
No, no, no. The run anywhere stuff all has the same Achilles heel - it has to use some kind of platform independent GUI toolkit. And those are slow, clunky, and can't use any of the nice OS features.
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And those are slow, clunky, and can't use any of the nice OS features.
That last bit might be true, but "slow, clunky" is a crock of shit.
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Clunky and slow certainly apply for GIMP on OS X. It's fine software on Windows and Linux, or was last I tried it on either anyway. But (assuming it hasn't changed in the past three years) how they came up with the idea that they should stick to Ctrl+[key] instead of Cmd+[key] on a Mac is still beyond me...
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Maybe they're not necessarily "slow", but they are clunky, in that they don't follow all of the native paradigms, even if they *look* very very similar.
(I use kmttg fairly often. It's a Java program to download Tivo shows, and while it's usable, it is very quirky due to its crossplatformness.)
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So eloquent.
SOME of the cross platform GUIs, on SOME of the platforms they support, have reasonable performance. Many of them don't. All of them are slower than native.
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If you look at the source, this is a program designed to compiled by XCode against the Cocoa libraries for use on a Mac (or possibly extended to an iOS device). This is platform specific, though I imagine it could get ported to http://www.gnustep.org/ [gnustep.org]
Re:It's about damn time (Score:4, Interesting)
Why would anyone pay for a text editor when there are extremely powerful free alternatives? And regarding jEdit... you really need an entire java environment just to edit text?
Personally, I can't imagine needing more than Vim offers. What compelling features do other editors offer?
Re:It's about damn time (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would anyone pay for a text editor when there are extremely powerful free alternatives? And regarding jEdit... you really need an entire java environment just to edit text?
Personally, I can't imagine needing more than Vim offers. What compelling features do other editors offer?
Well, if you use EMACS, you can run an entire operating system in your text editor, play Pong, compile and run your LISP code, run Vim, etc.
Honestly though, I've used TextMate, BBEdit, Smultron, jEdit, XCode, EMACS, ed on the terminal, etc. and usually end up coming back to OS X Vim. The only ones I've liked better were one that was designed for LaTeX (can't remember its name atm) and a python-based editor I used for a number of years (it had excellent context-aware tab completion and superior syntax highlighting, neither of which I've been able to get quite right in Vim after all these years).
Re:vim (Score:2)
I love vim for:
- fast file creation and fairly complex repetitive changes within a single file.
- its guaranteed availability on any linux/unix/macosx box around.
I find vim a little tiresome for find and replace, or working on 8 files at once or whatever, once the project becomes a tree of 30, 50, ... files in multiple directories.
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jEdit's only flaw is that it is Java. Asides from that, it is a solid Unicode capable cross-platform editor that can work with files over SSH. Synchronizing your sessions, configuration, and plugins is as simple as copying over your .jedit folder, even between Windows and Linux.
I so far haven't found a single other editor with all those features. Do tell me if one exists...
Re:It's about damn time (Score:4, Informative)
Um, vim? Vim has Unicode(multibyte) and SSH(netrw), and keeps everything in ~/.vim. Am I missing something?
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You could achieve the all the "special" jEdit functionality, ex: search and replace with the result of a script, in Vim with VimScript but I prefer BeanShell [beanshell.org] to VimScript [sourceforge.net] so I use jEdit...
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I agree. I have been using Geany as my development editor and Kate (embedded in the Krusader file manager, pretty much like midnight commander's built-in editor), and I don't think any paid alternative can top those two. Gedit is kinda nice, too, and there are the console editors like vim, emacs, nano and joe, even mcedit, that are very handy to have.
Not to mention I make a point of creating software with zero costs other than my power bills. I make FOSS with FOSS. Even if it can be 20% more painful than pa
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Personally, I can't imagine needing more than Vim offers. What compelling features do other editors offer?
Modeless editing [wikipedia.org].
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For $10 more (what's that, about eight Euros?), you could buy SublimeText or UltraEdit and get some of those new features you've been waiting for. At least run the 30 day trial to see for yourself. I use Sublime and it's been a good choice for me. Sublime also handles large files much better than TextMate. I've used it on Postgres dumps in the 4GB range just to see. Scrolling was slow on my MacBook Pro with only 8GB RAM, but I could do it.
As for getting big bucks for years, it's likely that Allan is ti
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>>>Those who laugh at you for you having a Mac.. are the people who constantly call you to fix their PC.
Funny.. my PC never needs fixing. 10 years of Windows XP and still going strong. There was only one time I had a problem, so I ran AVG from a CD and the problem went-away. How many Macs can claim 10 years of use w/ just one minor issue?
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LOL your sig is the truth.
Re:It's about damn time (Score:5, Insightful)
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What does Textmate have that other editors don't?
I have limited experience of other editors, so I can't defend the claim, but it is usually touted for its extensibility. It provides a very powerful but fairly easy API for adding language support (including syntax highlighting, vocabulary, matching pairs, indentation, patterns for matching "words"), snippets (very flexible macros), off-process operations (you can shell script input/output however you see fit, integrate with other services*, pretty much whatever), GUI integration (drag-drop, menus, custom k
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Surely you jest.
Yeah, he does.
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He was being sarcastic I am sure. I understand how people's brains get hardwired to reflexes and habits and resist change which is what caused the vi vs emacs wars in the Unix community a decade ago. But to start anew imitating the different mode from 1970s teletypes with only 300 broad connections in 2012 is strange which is why vim has editing modes. But ide's and other tools have things like debuggers and other tools you can use integrated in, in a more modern sense. Of course emacs users claim they have
Re:It's about damn time (Score:5, Insightful)
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I used to be an Emacs guy, but I've switched to Vim. Most text editors have functions that can be accessed by keystrokes. You can think of this as vocabulary in a language. Each key press is a word. But Vi also has a grammar. Keystrokes don't just happen individually, they happen in bunches that are kind of like sentences.
In a normal editor you move your cursor and then edit what's under it. But with Vi you can say things like "Modify the 3rd word on this line". It takes time to get used to it, but w
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But to start anew imitating the different mode from 1970s teletypes with only 300 broad connections
300 baud
in 2012 is strange which is why vim has editing modes.
Connection speed has nothing to do with this. The original vi has insert and editing modes because it has to be usable on a terminal with any keyboard layout, and to allow one-keystroke switch between command and editing modes.
But ide's and other tools have things like debuggers and other tools you can use integrated in, in a more modern sense. Of course emacs users claim they have that.
Developers must keep themselves as far from debugger as possible, and anything that makes running a debugger difficult, is an improvement as far as development environment is concerned.
But it is a bunch of macros in lisp to cli tools like gnu db.
It's called "modularity".
Re:It's about damn time (Score:5, Informative)
in 2012 is strange which is why vim has editing modes
Not really. VIM is based on VI. VI was a full screen user interface for ex, which was a line editor. The VI commands are ex commands. (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/ex.html ). EX was an extension of ED which is a line editor and a line editor needs to be modal. One of the things that nice about VIM, is that it is fully scriptable because within it still contains an old fashioned line editor.
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Pretty much every IDE is just a bunch of macros in some language to cli tools that do the heavy lifting. Just because Emacs gives you the source code to make it obvious, does not make it inferior.
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I use vim everyday, and I live in 2012.
Ditto. And I use it every day on OSX, Linux, Solaris, and not every day on Windows.
Cross-platform issues aside, if I use a Notepad like (non-modal) editor I end up with a lot of 'i's, '^T's and the like in my code. Most annoying :) Really once you've internalised the modal nature, the vi and ex commands etc. it's really hard having actually to think about how to manipulate text rather than just thinking "indent" ... and the text indents as if by magic (though I'm
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For what it does, and does quite well, $50 is indeed cheap. It does have its quirks, but as a primarily Win/Linux guy, I find Textmate quite tolerable, unlike the vast majority of other Mac apps I've tried.
Sure, we PC freaks are spoiled with a gazillion free Scintilla-based editors, but that freeware culture is nowhere near as strong on the Mac. $50 is peanuts compared to the time and frustration saved (read: more hours billed). You have to put it into perspective, I don't know many Mac users who code "j
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>>>Textmate is $50, that is cheap, especially for software that you rely on. Visual SlickEdit is $300 a seat, Multi-Edit costs about the same, Kedit is "just" $130, and Vedit is the most reasonable of that lot at $90
I wouldn't buy any of them.
I'd ask my employer to give me the tool I need free-of-charge, or else just use a freebie tool like Notepad, jEdit, LibreOffice, etc. I try to spend as little money as possible.
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Yeah!!!1
And save it as DOCX!!!
Great!
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The majority of people in the world do not own a Mac...
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How did this troll get modded insightful?
The majority of people in the world don't code for a living...
FTFY...
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I'd be surprised if the majority of people in the world owned any sort of personal computer.
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And this is likely the last we hear of it... (Score:3)
From most of the reviews I've been hearing for its in-development versions, it sounds like it has some significant bugs that remain to be fixed, as well as some significant features still missing from it. It's nowhere near solid enough yet, and most of the folks who've been a part of the community and following its development seem to agree that open source is where it's going to go to die a slow death.
I'd love to be proven wrong, however.
I've been using the 2.0 beta for some time (Score:3)
....and my experience, sadly, mirrors what you're hearing. Not so much buggy (although I've bumped into a few), but feature-incomplete, compared to the 1.0 series. Very little visible progress on the beta.
Whatever his other reasons for open-sourcing the code, I agree with the endgame... this is a polite way of saying he's bitten off way more than he can chew and is throwing himself on the mercy of the development community to help move things forward.
Too bad, I've enjoyed using it, but we're clearly not g
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Marco Arment has been talking about one called Chocolat that's in active development and seems to be decent, though as of his last podcast, he hadn't yet been completely sold on it, and wasn't certain if he would buy it or not. It sounded like he preferred it to Sublime, however.
Sublime Text 2 (Score:5, Informative)
Sublime is kinda taking textmates place.
http://www.sublimetext.com/ [sublimetext.com] + http://wbond.net/sublime_packages/package_control [wbond.net]
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I thought sublime text was shareware, is it not the case?
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Download and evaluate the full version for free... it does produce a dialog box on every 20th save asking if you would like to buy, which is fairly unobtrusive.
$59 for a single user license. Bulk discounts apply
http://www.sublimetext.com/buy [sublimetext.com]
Since it was recommended by colleagues at a new place, I enjoyed it after 5 minutes, loved it after an hour, and depend on every day. I have come to depend on it's features like editing with mutiple cursors, simple interface and keyboard controls as alternatives to
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Wow. Just no. $60 is 1/8 of the standard salary in my country. Too bad... for them.
Re:Sublime Text 2 (Score:4, Insightful)
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Wow. Thanks for that link, I haven't looked for a new text editor for a long time, tried a few IDEs recently and came to the same conclusion I've always come (i.e. they're sluggish, they suck as editors and the fabled "IDE magic" doesn't work half of the time on my projects).
ST2 is the first real contender to TextMate I've seen. I just might switch. At least I'll be giving it a try.
Direct GitHub Link (Score:3)
https://github.com/textmate/textmate [github.com]
unexpected (Score:5, Interesting)
Had you told me during my Linux years that I would one day spend money on a text editor, I'd have laughed you out of the room. Years later, I'm a happy TextMate user and it kicks every IDE I've tried in the nuts. Yeah, sometimes I'd wish for some of the IDE features, but every ... single ... one ... that I've tried has an editor that sucks compared to TextMate. The best ones just suck, the worse ones don't even compare. And in the end, I spend more time editing code than looking at fancy class navigation bars.
So I'm really curious about where a Free Software version of TextMate will go. Not sure if I'd rather go to bed (11 pm right now) or get all the dependencies and give it a try. Maybe if someone would post a binary, that would be really cool. Yeah, I've become lazy.
Re:unexpected (Score:5, Funny)
...and it kicks every IDE I've tried in the nuts.
Perhaps you should have tried those IDEs in a computer.
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If you use more than one programming language using one IDE often isn't really an option. And then you're maybe editing other text files anyway. A good editor *is* a useful thing to have.
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I use TextMate as my primary Python development environment. My first thought upon hearing that it was going open source was "minimalist Python IDE."
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Try a decent text editor some day, such as geany.
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I've just had one look at the screenshots.
Let me put it this way: If this was your daughter, I'm sure she has a nice character, and maybe she is really smart, too. But, to put it nicely, I just don't date women so ugly I wouldn't want to be caught dead with them.
My entire life I have hated text editors that give me icons and a mouse-driven interface. I've just (thanks to some other comment) discovered Sublime Text 2 - and they do that part very, very right: When I'm in a text editor, I'm obviously editing t
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This is a GTK+ application. It only looks as good as your GTK+ theme and font setup. The one in the screenshots of the official website indeed looks a bit ugly.
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From the looks of it, it looks almost exactly like I'd expect TextMate to look in a GTK+ build.
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Nah. I'm an old KDE guy who's moved on (xfce on linux, osx for my main computer now). I *loved* Kate. It was a perfect little editor for when I didn't want to be in vim.
Port it! (Score:2)
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I've found gedit to be the best text editor. Native to Linux and there is a Mac port.
I'm doing a linux port (Score:4, Interesting)
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Are you going to use OpenStep libraries as the base?
If you do, it'll be a trivial port to Windows as well.
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I think you should talk to the GNUStep people. They could use a full featured editor, the port will be much much easier to GNUStep than generic Linux....
I am too lazy to try and install it. (Score:5, Interesting)
So can someone explain what makes this text editor so popular? Is it features, feel, performance, configurability? A careful balance of all of these?
How does it compare to some of Linux' standard GUI text editors? Say gEdit, kate, geany?
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It's not it's insanely discrete undo behavior, that's for sure. :P
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Undo is much improved in TM2. It still prefers to undo the single most recent character change (which I've come to appreciate) but on subsequent steps through history it basically goes word-by-word.
Re:I am too lazy to try and install it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Some of the magic can be found in the screencasts of the software: http://macromates.com/screencasts [macromates.com]
Notice though that these were shot in 2008 and earlier...
Integration with the OS has been a big feature of TextMate and Coda (which is why the users are such zealots)... oh yeah and editable snippet bundles per programming language. http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/editorials/are-textmate-and-coda-yesterdays-editors/ [tutsplus.com]
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I use TextMate because it's small, fast, has lots of features that I never use that stay completely out of my way, renders text nicely, and ISN'T (necessarily) a one-window system. Did I mention it's fast?
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So can someone explain what makes this text editor so popular? Is it features, feel, performance, configurability? A careful balance of all of these?
How does it compare to some of Linux' standard GUI text editors? Say gEdit, kate, geany?
Well, it's a bit of a modern looking, even somewhat stylish, but limited reinvention of Emacs. It has lots of useful features, about a million shortcuts and you can easily write simple extensions in any language you like (you can feed the selected text, current line etc. to snippets of sh, php, perl, tcl, python, ruby or whatever you want and then do something with what your script returns). And bind that to shortcuts. It also comes already with lots of useful things and modes for a bunch of languages. And
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I've been using TextMate for several years. It has lots going for it, the primary point being that it is a text editor and it knows it. It doesn't try to do 500 unrelated things, but focusses on doing the one thing it was designed for really well. It follows the Mac philosophy in many ways. It gets out of your way and lets you do the actual text editing.
Yeah, it's rock-solid, too. Can't remember if it ever crashed on me.
It also has tons of plugins. For example, I use Subversion extensively, so I have an SVN
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The killer feature for me was the integration with pdfsync. Write LaTex, hit compile, end up with an interactive PDF (click on some stuff and it'll take you back to the source in TextMate). It's fucking genius. Of course Preview.app did, and still does, have lots of problems with fonts in pdflatex generated PDFs.
Unfortunate license choice (Score:3)
You should have dual licensed it, or licensed it under GPL3, but with an assignment of rights back to you for contributions. As things sit, you will not be allowed to sell this in the App store for either desktop of iDevice use.
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You're right, "you" won't. But he can license his code any way he likes, including as required for the iDevice stores.
And he doesn't have to accept anybody's contribution back to the main code base, without demanding assignment of rights as you suggest.
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You're right, "you" won't. But he can license his code any way he likes, including as required for the iDevice stores.
And he doesn't have to accept anybody's contribution back to the main code base, without demanding assignment of rights as you suggest.
The particular venue he picked for the release requires that he not restrict contributions in this fashion. A dual license would have allowed him to meet the free GitHub hosting terms while at the same time requiring an assignment of rights for committers.
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Re:Unfortunate license choice (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact GPL3 doesn't allow other people to build this project and offer it for sale in the App Store is exactly the reason why the author chose GPL3.
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Either clever or evil. Maybe both. :)
However, he can't offer it either (Score:2)
If I make contributions to the code under the GPLv3, then the code as a whole is GPLv3, and he cannot license it however "he" wants unless he gets an assignment of rights, or excises my contributions.
This lack of foresight is the same reason Linus doesn't have assigns for Linux, and therefore why it's impossible for Linux itself to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3, or for a third party to offer Linux under the terms of GPLv3.
When contributing to GCC, you have to execute assigns as well, as the FSF is well aware of
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This lack of foresight is the same reason Linus doesn't have assigns for Linux, and therefore why it's impossible for Linux itself to move from GPLv2 to GPLv3, or for a third party to offer Linux under the terms of GPLv3.
And here I thought that was an intentional choice so that neither he nor anyone else would have the option of taking Linux proprietary, thus ensuring a level playing field for all. He even excised the "or any later version clause" from the GPL2 so that RMS couldn't change the rules at a later date (how many millions would it take for RMS to sell out and release GPL4: Microsoft owns everything edition? Who takes over control of the GPL when he dies?)
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And you apparently don't know the meaning of the word "excised". As in the "or..." clause was removed from the standard license and does not apply to to Linux. For better and worse Linux is pretty firmly committed to being GPL2 only.
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Huh? Because some license agreement is going to stop me?
Step 1: Compile it up and submit it.
Step 2: Sell it. Profit.
Step 3: When the owner eventually complains to Apple and Apple stops selling it, make cosmetic changes and resubmit to Apple with a new developer account.
Step 4: See Step 2.
Works best if you live in some foreign country which does not have strong IP Laws.
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Kudos and Thanks go out to the developer! (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't get most of the crap and indifference here. ... Once it's cross-plattform that is.
Textmate is an editor that's actually making money being sold on Mac OS X - that the man decides to release it as FOSS is a very noble move. He probably made his share he'd hoped for ten times over, but he could have just kept it the way it was. He didn't, and now we've got a serious editor with solid chances of taking the throne for editors.
I've got my own story on Textmate: ... I use Aquamacs and Emacs to this very day when all else fails and I need a fast editor that can handle large files.
Back in 2003 my mobile computer of choice was a 13" G4 iBook, mainly to be able to do Flash development. I had my Flash IDE running, Eclipse for PHP, and some other stuff and the iBook performance was maxed out. I couldn't run my favorite Editor jEdit without serious issues - its built on Java. It was then that I decided to go with an Editor written in a C language. I seriously considered Textmate, but then I thought, if all this editor has going for it that you can programm it in its own script PL, then I might as well use Emacs and be completely independant. I installed Emacs the same night and started to learn some of its commands.
Textmate going FOSS might just have me try the switch. ... This is awesome.
Show some respect, guys!
My 2 cents.
Re:Kudos and Thanks go out to the developer! (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't get most of the crap and indifference here.
The project has been a work in progress for years and this might very well be Allan's way of saying "I'm burnt out guys, here's the code, please make it live because I no longer can."
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now we've got a serious editor with solid chances of taking the throne for editors. ... Once it's cross-plattform that is.
Many problems here:
* Textmate is Objective-C/Cocoa. The Objective-C part isn't a problem, but Cocoa is. GNUStep, while cool, doesn’t have everything Cocoa does. GNUStep isn't going to see a huge boost in developers for the sake of one text editor.
* Much of what makes Textmate great is its tight integration with OS X.
Unless a legion of developers decide to jump on the GNUStep bandwa
The best just got... (Score:2)
I am very, very, very fricking exciting. the best just got better *does happy happy dance* (and that's not sarcasm!)
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At least it displays properly on my retina screen, unlike the aforementioned BBEdit.
BBedit was my go-to editor years ago. And it still is for some things. Any kind of batch file operations for example, or transforming tab delimited notes I take into sql inserts.
But for actual coding, TextMate all the way.
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I abandoned BBEdit years ago when it got big and slow. And it was always a little ugly. TextMate is much cleaner.
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Isn't BBedit now TextWrangler? Hasn't it been for years?
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BBEdit Lite is now TextWrangler.
Emacs (Score:2)
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It got copied over and over since the initial release but at the time it was tremendously more extensible and customizable through bundles. If you didn't like the formatting rules, code snippets, etc., for a given language (or be that wasn't built-in) you could customize the bundle to fit your needs.
Its weak points are search and large files. You can't search in a directory, which is an occasional annoyance. Search can also be slow on larger projects. Large files (>= 500kb) can also be slow to open.
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I use both of them every day, for me the easy winner is textmate.
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So that's the strength, what are it's weaknesses? :-P
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