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Cloud Businesses Oracle

Official Doc Reveals Oracle's Cloud Rules 84

Posted by timothy
from the don't-tell-everyone-at-once dept.
itwbennett writes "In an official document that is both 'confidential' and publicly available on Oracle's website, the company lays out its cloud policies. Most of the policies follow industry standards, but then there are a few that should give customers pause. Like the one that allows Oracle to turn off access to accounts in the event of a dispute or account violation."
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Official Doc Reveals Oracle's Cloud Rules

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  • Rights (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 14, 2012 @11:00PM (#42298561)

    It's not your cloud. You inherently have to play by their rules.

  • by im_thatoneguy (819432) on Friday December 14, 2012 @11:03PM (#42298579)

    Like the one that allows Oracle to turn off access to accounts in the event of a dispute or account violation.

    OMG you mean they can disable my service if I violate their usage terms or fail to pay them? What an outrageous policy!

    • by Charliemopps (1157495) on Saturday December 15, 2012 @12:21AM (#42298985)

      Having been on the other side of this policy, I'd have to disagree with your sentiment. It's cloud services... So they have you by the short hairs. When the renewal comes up and they CHANGE the contract... as a customer you really only have one weapon, and that's to withhold the check. "We're not paying you until this contract isn't screwing us" and they they use this clause... "We're going to shut off your service if you don't agree to these new terms and pay up" And I'm not talking about withholding the pay for the service you have right now. Usually these contracts are signed in October or so for the following year... and they will threaten to turn off your service NOW if you don't agree and abide by their new "offer" for next year. They argue that you must draw up terms of disconnection or sign a new deal... if you fail to do either you're in violation of their agreement because you need to give proper notice... Oracles a bitch when it comes to contracts.

      • by Lehk228 (705449) on Saturday December 15, 2012 @12:26AM (#42299003) Journal
        why anyone would put anything critical in Oracle's hands is beyond me
        • by PantherSE (588973)
          It's called the warm fuzzy. I think the problem really boils down to who do the people making the final decisions really listen to.
        • by lucm (889690)

          why anyone would put anything critical in Oracle's hands is beyond me

          And where exactly would you rather put it? for your convenience here is an overview of the main database cloud offerings:

          1) Oracle
          2) Microsoft SQL Azure
          3) EnterpriseDB (Postgresql)
          4) Amazon RDS (MySQL)
          5) A bunch of NoSQL providers (like MongoLab)

          Granted, Oracle has the worst SLA in all these offerings but until IBM comes out with a DB2 Cloud service, Oracle is still ranked near or at the the top of that list. And anyways if you read the fine prints in any of those SLAs you'll see that the penalty for downti

          • for your convenience here is an overview of the main database cloud offerings:

            So, if you don't like any of those options, you don't go to a mainstream option! What a surprize, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of companies providing database access, there must be one that fits your requirements.

            But, why are you looking for database offerings again? If you are small, a VPS or a rented server will probably fit your needs better. If you are big, there is no excuse from taking care of your own data.

            • by lucm (889690)

              Defining a company by "big" or "small" is a sure way to make a bad decision. Here is an example;

              Company A is in the manufacturing industry and has over 5,000 employees. Every week they must process terabytes of data extracted from their production line machines in order to keep a lean inventory and lay off or hire people as needed. They are in a cut-throat industry and can't afford a huge ERP rollout and their shoestring IT budget merely allows for a bunch of commodity servers.

              Company B is a hedge fund that

              • All your examples have a lot to lose, and too little to gain from relying on the cloud.

                The cloud is a great fit for for Company D, that is a sole founder that sells services for companies A, B and C. It needs some web presence, so clients will find it, but surely can't afford even to own its own servers (won't even think about owning a HA setup).

                • by lucm (889690)

                  You have to take off your IT hat and think about it from a business perspective. A cost center like IT is a nightmare from an accounting perspective because it puts a lot of weight in the capital expenditure column (while cloud hosting is a operational expenditure, which is much easier to swallow).

                  Have a quick read on this topic:
                  http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/whitepaper/getting-on-the-right-side-of-the-capex-vs-opex-divide [rackspace.com]
                  (disclaimer: it's from a company that offers cloud hosting)

                  Now if you take

                  • You have to take off your IT hat and think about it from a business perspective.

                    I lost my IT hat a few years ago. Altough nowadays I'm kind of back on IT, that hat still don't fit.

                    A cost center like IT is a nightmare from an accounting perspective...

                    The division of activities in cost centers and revenue centers is bullshit. If you have an activity that won't improve your botton line (risks included), you just stop doing it. If you are doing it and claiming that it doesn't either increase revenues or reduce

                    • by lucm (889690)

                      Also, accounting perspective is miopic. That's why accounting is a department, not a C-level position.

                      I don't know in what kind of organization you work, but in my experience when there are C-level positions the first one to be created after CEO is CFO. And in most organizations the CFO has more power than the CIO/CTO (if there is even one - in many organizations IT is directly reporting to the CFO). I could provide you with links about the growing power of CFOs in IT but I'm sure your Google works just fine.

                      Obviously with such a disconnect between our individual experiences we will never see eye-to-eye.

                      Als

        • by Anonymous Coward

          why anyone would put anything critical in Oracle's hands is beyond me

          You have no choice when the service you have been using quite happily for the last 10 years is suddenly aquired by Oracle. We got an announcement out of the blue that company X was aquired by Oracle and had to make a choice in a relatively short time on what to do. Turns out that the migration plan would take at least 6 months of work assuming we could find the man power and another vendor to do everything we needed - more weeks of searching - by that time we would be well into the contract and would have

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        When the renewal comes up and they CHANGE the contract...

        Oracle: Pray I don't alter it any further...

    • by russotto (537200)

      OMG you mean they can disable my service if I violate their usage terms or fail to pay them? What an outrageous policy!

      Works great as long as you trust them to be 100% honest and fair. If they try to screw you, you have no recourse; you're out of business as soon as you object to anything they do. Maybe you'll get a little money back once your case makes it through the courts.

      Oh, wait, did I say through the courts? No, there's probably a mandatory arbitration clause anyway. But you'll still be out of bu

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Not available anymore..
    The link to the pdf returns a 404..

    • Re: (Score:1, Redundant)

      by sirber (891722)

      Not available anymore.. The link to the pdf returns a 404..

      oracle's database is overloaded?

    • by PantherSE (588973)
      I think someone's going to get their hands slapped really good next week.
  • Like the one that allows Oracle to turn off access to accounts in the event of a dispute or account violation.

    So if you violate the ToS they cut off your access to service? Yeah, and? I can find you hundreds of sites that have similar terms.

    • by drinkypoo (153816)

      So if you violate the ToS they cut off your access to service? Yeah, and? I can find you hundreds of sites that have similar terms.

      No, in the event of a dispute. Account violation, we expect. But because someone has asserted that there is an account violation? MAYDAY MAYDAY

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Oracle's cloud rules!

    The official doc reveals it.

  • Come on, this is standard for any host provider. It's CYA 101.

  • No oracle unless! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wijnands (874114)
    I'm an infrastructure architect. My rule is no oracle unless you can prove to me you really need it and there's no alternative. Oracle always tries to screw you over with their licensing and their pricing.
  • by Dunbal (464142) * on Saturday December 15, 2012 @04:07AM (#42299893)
    What I don't get is why there is a demand for the "cloud" anyway. Storage has never been cheaper, and internet access never more pervasive. If you can't store your data on your multi-gigabyte devices and move it to your other multi-gigabyte devices yourself through your internet provider, there's something wrong somewhere.
    • by jimicus (737525)

      Consumer grade hard disks are cheap. Proper redundant storage where you have at least two disks, two power supplies, at least one UPS, at least two paths to reach the disks, the ability for two or more servers to connect to the same disks so if one server fails another can be brought up on short notice, offsite backups.... That's expensive. Very expensive.

      Using someone else's service means they can ge economies of scale many businesses can't. Of course there is a risk involved - the main one is that the com

      • by Dunbal (464142) *
        I think a few thousand dollars invested in securing my data would be far, far better than trusting a 3rd party who can turn around and say "oh so sorry, TOS violation/we're shutting down this division/we gave your data to the FBI cos it was on the same server as.../etc". It's not a true savings especially if you can lose ownership or access to the very thing you were trying to protect. The whole trend flies into the face of what the computer industry has been trying to give us all these years, a small, powe
    • OK, so many of us here can whip up a server etc. on get it online fast & cheap.

      But how much would we charge for all of the facilities that a typical cloud server provides?

      Clue: Probably more than they do

  • > Like the one that allows Oracle to turn off access to accounts in the event of a dispute or account violation

    So... exactly what every other company out there does but they're telling you this right up front. BURN THE WITCHES!

  • We're sorry, the page you requested was not found ??? link not found [oracle.com]
  • #1: You do not talk about ORACLE CLOUD
    #2: You DO NOT talk about ORACLE CLOUD
    #3: If someone says "DROP TABLE", goes local storage or rains out, the cloud is over
    #4: Only two-bit keys in a cloud
    #5: One cloud to rule them all
    #6: No backups, no three-factor authentication
    #7: The cloud will grow as big as it has to
    #8: If this is your first night at ORACLE CLOUD, you HAVE to upload everything

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