Google Releases Raspberry Pi Web Dev Teaching Tool

judgecorp writes "Google has released 'Coder,' described as a simple way to make web stuff on Raspberry Pi. The idea is to make the Pi into a simple web server and web development environment on which kids can learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript. They provide an image for the Raspberry Pi, and they've open-sourced Coder as well. 'We thought about all the stuff we could do to make Coder a more complete package, but we have a hunch that the sooner this gets into the open source and maker communities, the more we’ll learn about how it might be used. Hopefully, a few more folks will pitch in and help us make this even more accessible and helpful for new coders.'"

Making it too simple for kids to learn

[Anonymous Coward]

We're going to wind up with a generation of script kiddies who cannot function without a IDE and GUI.

Re:Making it too simple for kids to learn

[Daemonik]

We're going to wind up with a generation of script kiddies who cannot function without a IDE and GUI.

I think the onion tied to your belt is starting to get moldy there.

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[The-Ixian]

Bravo! Bravo!
 
Nothing like a Simpsons reference to make my day complete.
 
Thank you sir

Re:Making it too simple for kids to learn

[rufty_tufty]

How many people today can function without a compiler?
How many welders can function without a foundry to produce the iron for them?
How many people can function without farms to grow their food for them.
How many farms these days can function without computers and iron tools?

It's called civilisation, we build on top of the work of others and do ever greater things. If everyone in all of life had to know how to do everything we wouldn;t get very much done.

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[Anonymous Coward]

All right, I'm getting the shotgun. You did see the sign, didn't ya?

Re: Making it too simple for kids to learn

[rufty_tufty]

Erm the pi is about as powerful as a desktop from 2003. Are you saying we did nothing useful before then?

Re:Making it too simple for kids to learn

[alen]

if you don't code in assembly, you're dumb and lazy

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[jones_supa]

This is how I would put it: even if coding in assembly wasn't your main job, everyone should take a crash course into assembly to make better solutions in higher-level languages too.

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[jones_supa]

How did you find the time to learn all those platforms?

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[danceswithtrees]

After you learn a few key concepts (registers, different types of addressing, basic instructions), learning a new architecture is easier as you only have to learn about the important differences, eg endianness, argument order, special instructions, memory layout, etc. Those differences are what get rusty.

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[nogginthenog]

Unless you come from Motorolla 6809, then 68k and try to learn x86. Then you're like WTF? Who designed this crap?

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[twdorris]

Unless you come from Motorolla 6809, then 68k and try to learn x86. Then you're like WTF? Who designed this crap?

Tru dat

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[rufty_tufty]

Surely for the the issue isn't assembly vs everything else it's demonstrating the ability to use a range of language philosophies, There are lots of languages under the sun and certainly I'd be worried about someone who always had garbage collection at their beck and call if I was trying to implement any system with real time requirements or involved lots of heavy lifting of data. However isn't there a worry someone can get too stuck in the nuts and bots. I've seen so many examples of code where someone has

Re:Making it too simple for kids to learn

[jeffb (2.718)]

Assembly is a crutch for people who are too weak-minded to remember opcode values and numeric addresses.

And I'll bet you've never implemented a single instruction in microcode.

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[HeckRuler]

Damn straight he's learning assembly! If it was good enough for me [necrobones.com], it'll be good enough for my son!

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[AJH16]

This just means my skills will become more valuable. Besides, you can use an IDE to build an IDE, just like you use compilers to build compilers.

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[superwiz]

Why do you even think that programming has to involve text? Aren't you effectively stuck in the functional programming paradigm? It was an anachronism of the early stage of computing when programming was used primarily for computations. If you start thinking of computers and of programming as controlling devices, you would realize that the clear view of what you control is more important than knowledge of stock algorithms implemented over and over again in text. Human thought progresses through creating

Tenant?

[JanneM]

I'm very likely over-reading this, but my first reaction when seeing this was: don't learn to use Python and code your own stuff. Learn to use JS and code for the Google platform instead. Learn to become a tenant farmer.

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[Daemonik]

Why do you pathetic "programmers" these days still use script languages? Real men code in assembler while wearing utili-kilts, you sissies.

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[Rhywden]

Bah, you sissy. You use a magnet and tip the bits on the platter by hand!

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[Obfuscant]

Bah, you sissy. You use a magnet and tip the bits on the platter by hand!

What's "a platter"? Isn't that what cooked fish comes on?

Real programmers program the toggle switches by hand.

The mainframe computer at Michigan State University used to have a large bank of toggle switches which contained the bootloader code for the system. A CDC-6500. Hydraulically operated disk for swap. Vector CRT for console.

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[geezer nerd]

Yup, what you say is quite true about the CDC 6500. I was at the University of Texas in 1966 when they received #13 CDC 6600. There was a bank of 12 x 12 switches in which the ultimate boot program was encoded. Typically they caused a read to be initiated at location 0 of the hard disk, and thus loaded in the rest of the boot sequence. In its day, it was the be-all end-all supercomputer with a 1 microsecond cycle time.

My thesis work, computing a potential energy curve for a diatomic molecule took 8 solid

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[the_arrow]

A real programmer would use butterflies [xkcd.com]!

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[jones_supa]

I'm very likely over-reading this, but my first reaction when seeing this was: don't learn to use Python and code your own stuff. Learn to use JS and code for the Google platform instead. Learn to become a tenant farmer.

It's basically what Google does: sponsor a high-bandwidth network to a town -- get them connected and to use Google services. Teach kids AJAX -- get more web coders, ultimately more profit to Google.

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[KalvinB]

When I started web development I started with HTML. Then I learned JavaScript and later CSS. Much after that I started with backend scripting languages and then databases. I wanted to be a game programmer initially so I learned BASIC then C and C++, Java and C#. Web stuff came later and that's what I do now with PHP, Perl, Python, etc.

This is for kids getting started. If you want to be a web developer, the best place to start is with the visual stuff. You can now make 3D games with JavaScript so it wi

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[nogginthenog]

You can do the development on the Pi itself quite easily.

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[krswan]

I'm a public school teacher. The crap Dells my district buys last maybe 4 years before something major dies in them, and the warrantee only lasts 3. Keyboards and monitors generally last much longer (not so for the mice they way they are used by my elementary school kids, but they are pretty cheap to replace). The result is I have lots of extra monitors and keyboards, so the Pi, a vga or dvi adaptor, and maybe a mouse come out to $60, plus the plastic for our 3d printer to print cases. This was part of the

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[serviscope_minor]

The real issue is that the Pi with a decent monitor, keyboard and mouse is going to set you back over $200. It isn't exactly cheap. For $100 more you can get a proper laptop that isn't horribly crippled.

If you fork out for a decent desktop class monitor (not super awesome, but decent) and a mid to high end keyboard or mouse, then sure.

I popped on to my main go-to vendor, and looks like they have keyboard and mouse combo packs for about 8 pounds. Worth it to avoid the mankyness of a second hand keyboard. The

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[pfafrich]

I think the way coder works is that the Pi sits a a local (web)-server connected via your local ethernet network. You don't actually need a separate monitor or keyboard for the Pi as all control is done via a PC connected to the network.

Oh Gawd!!

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

...on which kids can learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript...

Why not teach them Perl and make 'em Cubs fans too, as long as you're about to fuck 'em up for life?

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[ArcadeMan]

Since when has Perl replaced PHP as the black sheep of Web languages?

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[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Since when has Perl replaced PHP as the black sheep of Web languages?

You got that backwards, sonny. And get off my lawn.

mixing software and hardware development?

[peter303]

I suggest for many people it would be better just to buy a $199 Chromebook rather than to try do both hardware and high level software at once.

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[neorush]

I think the idea is to hand a kid this already setup, so it is a very cheap way to get someone into writing web applications.

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[BitZtream]

Its not cheap.

It still requires a monitor, keyboard, power supply, mouse, sd card for the OS, USB stick so you get reasonable IO ... boom, already you're well past the $200 chrome book.

It only looks cheap because you ignore the fact that a RaspberryPI by itself is utterly useless and needs a fuck ton of support hardware before it becomes useful as a general purpose computer.

Oh, and its slow as balls.

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[Thiez]

Most kids are going to have access to a normal computer anyway, which would include a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. They can use ssh access or some kind of remote desktop to control their RasPi. No extra support hardware required, apart from a power supply, a sd card (they're dirt cheap) and a UTP cable to connect it to a switch/router. Your 'well past $200' estimate is completely ridiculous.

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[Fwipp]

If you click through to the article, there's actually web-based access to the Pi, from which you can do your programming.

No SSH required.

Sweet.

[neorush]

This is pretty awesome. One of the barriers of learning to code is getting passed the server setup. I remember fiddling with a mandrake installation for days before getting it to actually give me a properly parsed perl page. This should help kids get into it. And for those of you everyone-should-code-webpages-in-vi(m) people, kids who find it interesting, will dig deeper. All of my initial *unix skills came from wanting to do more with a webpage (e.g. how do I install a perl library), but having a functional web / database is what got me started.

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[Obfuscant]

This is pretty awesome. One of the barriers of learning to code is getting passed the server setup.

No, people getting passed the server setup is how Google is allegedly helping the process, not putting up a barrier. They are passing people the server setup so that other people can get past the server setup stage... which isn't really that hard anyway these days.

All of my initial *unix skills came from wanting to do more with a webpage

Thank God there is nothing more to Unix than web pages.

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[geezer nerd]

I think the original poster you have responded to meant "past", not "passed" as he said. That changes the meaning of what he said to you, and makes your comment kind of pointless.

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[neorush]

passed -> past*

Really?

[brucefulton]

sudo apt-get install apache2 mysql-server php5 php5-mysql

pi

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Is there a benefit to this on a raspberry pi? Why not just build a simple system that runs on a pc or Apple, which everyone who might have a pi will have, and millions who don't as well.

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[csumpi]

It wouldn't make the headlines, nor work as click-bait.

Re:pi

[mspohr]

Raspberry Pi is much cheaper than a PC or Apple.
We're talking about lots of kids in classrooms.
This is for kids in classrooms.
The rest of you old geezers should stick with your legacy systems.

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[mspohr]

It does make a very useful and inexpensive educational computer (which was the design goal).
Lots of people have also put them to use in many other ways (which don't require high "performance").
It's a screaming 3 watt power hog.
It doesn't sound like it would meet your needs and I recommend that you don't get one (and please, for our sakes, ignore all further discussion of the Raspberry Pi).

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[GiganticLyingMouth]

Keyboard, mouse, monitor, power supply, SD Card for OS, USB stick for writable partitions because the SD card support is asstastically slow, Wifi adapter, time for someone to image the SD card for it, trouble because the RaspberryPi is poorly engineered power hog that can hardly sustain its own circuits, and don't forget, you still need a case.

I recently purchased a RaspberryPi. Everything together it came out to under $100 ($42 for the pi + $25 for keyboard/mouse + $9 for SD card + $10 for WiFi USB adapter), not counting the monitor (I hook it up to my TV, as it has an HDMI port). You just need some 5V 2.1A power source; I just use an old phone charger I had. I recently moved, so I didn't have a spare keyboard or SD card. For most people, odds are they already have this stuff laying around. Also, no need for a case. The SD card imaging is very s

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[the agent man]

This makes NO sense for kids in classrooms. Without the ability to run silly but required pieces of software (including the new US testing SW) and Wifi students would need a Raspberry Pi IN ADDITION to some Mac or PC. Quite simply, this is not going to happen because it would mean schools would have to spend more without getting more.

Simple web stuff?

[Jawnn]

FFTA... [quote]"Google has released 'Coder,' described as a simple way to make web stuff..."[/quote] I thought that was what Rails is for.

Too bad its pointless

[technosaurus]

They could have at least include a dynamic IP mechanism to pull it up at some google hosted domain.