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Java Open Source Programming

Eclipse Foundation Celebrates 10 Years 155

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the emacs-is-still-better dept.
msmoriarty writes with news that the Eclipse foundation is ten years old this week. Although Eclipse was released in 2001, development was controlled by IBM until the creation of the independent Eclipse Foundation in 2004. "According to Eclipse Foundation Director Mike Milinkovich, that's a major reason Eclipse was able to thrive: 'IBM....did an exemplary job of setting Eclipse free ... We became the first open source organization to show that real competitors could collaborate successfully within the community.' He also talks about misconceptions about Eclipse, its current open source success, and what he sees for the future."
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Eclipse Foundation Celebrates 10 Years

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    The Eclipse [wikipedia.org] line was phased out by 1989. Heck, Data General wasn't even a company anymore by 2001.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by ebno-10db (1459097)

      Welcome to Slashdot, where a joke gets you a -1. Some mod needs another cup of coffee.

  • Still using it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hansamurai (907719) <hansamurai@gmail.com> on Monday February 03, 2014 @10:11PM (#46146909) Homepage Journal

    Even though I've owned a copy of IntelliJ IDEA for over a year, I still use Eclipse everyday for Java development. Latest version is great and the extensions available for it make it even better.

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      I've used Basica, GW-Basic, QBasic, Logo, Visual Basic for DOS, VB6, Turbo Pascal, Turbo C++, Watcom, Visual Studio 2002/2003/2005/2008/2010/2012, Netbeans, XCode, Notepad, Notepad++, Vi, Watcom, Progress4GL and Eclipse.

      Hands down, Eclipse was the slowest and most confusingest I've ever used out of ALL of the above.
      • by Dwedit (232252)

        You must be exaggerating, since GW-BASIC required you to manually type in line numbers, just like on an Apple II. Eclipse may be bloated and sluggish, but at least you don't need to type in line numbers.

        • As fuggin verbose as java can be, not requiring line numbers is the least it can do. :P
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          AUTO 100, 10

          Suddenly GW-Basic is rivalling Eclipse as an IDE!

        • You must be exaggerating, since GW-BASIC required you to manually type in line numbers, just like on an Apple II. Eclipse may be bloated and sluggish, but at least you don't need to type in line numbers.

          Now go figure out where they put the "turn on line numbers" function in Eclipse this quarter...

        • Actually, it didn't, I believe you could type 10 then newline, and then it would auto generate them for you. But this is remembering stuff from 25 years ago so I could be wrong :)
      • Should have used emacs... :-D

      • by fractoid (1076465)
        I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. To be fair, it's been years since I used Eclipse, and it's probably improved out of sight (and/or computers being 1000x faster now compensates for the unwieldyness of Java) but last time I did use Eclipse, it was painfully chuggy.
        • I recently wanted to play around with uzebox and I ran into issues setting up eclipse, the documentation was unsurprisingly hard to find, I ended up just getting Atmel AVR Studio. It wouldn't really be fair to compare them.

          {setting it up for some off the wall piece of hardware is difficult when the solution designed specifically for that purpose works out of the box... not really fair}

          It did appear a little heavy and I wouldn't consider using it for most projects and especially not at work where I have well

  • I hear Flashbuilder is built on top of Eclipse. I need to quit every day and restart because of a memory leak that slows everything down to a crawl with massive type lag of 1s+ between key presses. Its so easy to get stuff done in AS3 compared to any other language, but I often feel like I'm fighting the IDE.
    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by binarylarry (1338699)

      Adobe + Eclipse = Computer Gonorrhea

      The only way it could be worse was is Oracle was involved. WAIT! Oracle owns Java.

      So it's really:

      Adobe + Eclipse + Oracle = Computer AIDS

    • I don't use Flashbuilder that much, as I prefer their other tool, but I've never had a problem with any version of Flashbuilder on my Mac. It might be worth a try if the Windows version isn't working for you.

      Flash Professional might be another option.

      • by Tronster (25566)

        I have FlashBuilder on my Mac, I only use it when deploying a project to iOS - it is awful. One example: With the latest version (4.7) I deleted a project through the OS X Finder on my hard drive, that I had previously built with FlashBuilder. Afterwards it refused to start up, immediately crashing/closing, even after a reinstall of the entire Adobe suite (a recommendation on various forums.) It took a few hours combing through posts to find a helpful one that mentioned some obscure user data directory

    • by H0p313ss (811249) on Tuesday February 04, 2014 @01:40AM (#46147691)

      Have you adjusted the heap memory settings in eclipse.ini?

      Here's the guide I wrote [publicstaticfinal.com] for using the IBM JVM for RSA and RTC, Oracle/JVM settings are similar.

  • by mark-t (151149) <markt@@@lynx...bc...ca> on Monday February 03, 2014 @10:27PM (#46147007) Journal

    I always found Eclipse to be very fidgety, and I've only ever been able to get one non-java project debugging properly inside of it. Conversely, netbeans ... well.. it just works. It has full C++11 support these days, and is, in my opinion, much friendlier to pure java development, using ant as its native build tool.

    (My money's on this comment being modded down by eclipse fanboys, ah, but what the hell, I'll post it anyways.)

    • It's made by Oracle. Enough said

      What I really want to type is Java is dying and a security nightmare, but sadly this ancient relic like IE 6 and Cobol won't die fast enough. I hate having apps requiring one version that conflict and constantly infects the same systems over and over again due to the +100 security holes!! I have read many posters switching to c++ for these reasons

      Like SCO you hurt the Foss by using Oracle products.

      • by mark-t (151149)
        I have no love for Oracle, but I use netbeans because, as I said... it works. And it works better than anything else I've tried.
    • Amen. I have been using Forte for Java, then Netbeans. In the mean time ( years, really ) I did one or the other odd project on Eclipse. No comparison in ergonomy and user-friendliness. Netbeans gives you the tools you need in obvious places; in Eclipse, you must either search for the tool, or you have dozens of them lying around when you really need only one. Eclipse = usability hell.
  • Eclipse (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by rossdee (243626)

    All that you touch
    All that you see
    All that you taste
    All you feel.
    All that you love
    All that you hate
    All you distrust
    All you save.
    All that you give
    All that you deal
    All that you buy,
    beg, borrow or steal.
    All you create
    All you destroy
    All that you do
    All that you say.
    All that you eat
    And everyone you meet
    All that you slight
    And everyone you fight.
    All that is now
    All that is gone
    All that's to come
    and everything under the sun is in tune
    but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

    "There is no dark side of the moon really. Matte

  • Giant contribution (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bug_hunter (32923) on Monday February 03, 2014 @10:36PM (#46147055)

    Eclipse and Java make a bit of a unique pair. Java is massively verbose by today's standards, but it's strict typing and highly declarative approach allows your IDE to do amazing things when it comes to refactoring or code analysis. Then there's the fact that Eclipse is by no means just a Java IDE, but that's just part of its giant eco-system.

    Eclipse is one of the reasons I was super sad that Oracle bought Java instead of IBM. IBM at least proved they can make a good product using Java, using its strengths and subverting its weaknesses.

    • Uhm, Java IS the standard these days.

      • by hibiki_r (649814) on Monday February 03, 2014 @11:36PM (#46147295)

        Depending on the kind of development you are on, maybe. There's plenty of people moving to shinier things though, mainly due to Java's excessive verbosity and lack of support of functional features. For insance, you see Fortune 500 companies placing ads for Scala developers. And people don't move to Scala because they have nostalgia for the C++ era's compile times. There's plenty of growth out there by other second tier languages who people choose to increase speed of development. And there's of course C#, which actually attempts to evolve at a decent rate.

        So while Java is still a very used language in industry, you won't see any language getting any uptake today if they replicate Java's love for boilerplate.

        We could also talk about the tools that are often used with Java that just promote the mindless verbosity. We all remember how terrible EJB 1.0 and 2.0 were. But then we got Spring and Hibernate, which are only slightly better than the disease. You can choose between monstruous XML formats with no real type checking, leading to a whole lot of runtime errors, or annotations that are slightly less verbose, and yet are just as prone to runtime errors. You end up needing such high test coverage to double check for those 'helpful' technologies that you might as well have been using a purely dynamic language in the first place: It's not as if the compiler protects you from careless mistakes in annotations or XML files. To offset this, we need an IDE and some complex configuration, raising the bar for building even the simplest application. No wonder people found Rails so refreshing when it first came out.

        • You can choose between monstruous XML formats with no real type checking, leading to a whole lot of runtime errors, or annotations that are slightly less verbose, and yet are just as prone to runtime errors.

          This. THIS.

          I was so happy to ditch Java after 2 years and move to .NET. Java is just configuration hell. Everything takes twice as long because you're fighting the infrastructure instead of actually getting stuff to work. The language itself is the easy part - it's the setup, the config files, the
    • by Zeromous (668365)

      Why would IBM buy Java? They roll their own JVM.

  • For the haters (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ADRA (37398) on Monday February 03, 2014 @10:46PM (#46147091)

    I've been using Eclipse on for pretty much 10years now and by and large, the tool has been pretty darn soliod. its a memory pig so get over it. I throw 1.5G at the heap and though it rarely if ever gets close to it, the amout of speed it performs mosdt operations is amazing.

    There are warts which I find personally lousy (like Mylyn of the built-in profiler, and much of the built-in text validators), but thankfully most of those can be trivially turned off and tweaked to speed up usage even more. With a few choice plug-ins, you can do a lot of the hard lifting without effort.

    I've only had cursory usage of Netbeans/Idea, but Kepler is really a dream to use. Note, almost every first few months of a new release are generally ass, and Juno was entirely ass so be warned. Just because one version of Eclipse may be a flake, don't discount the platform.

    • My 2010 era machine runs it fine with 8 gigs. Some folks have really old machines as the corps now look at IT as an expense rather than an asset and tax write off.

      No one besides a secretary should have an XP machine with 2 gigs of ram in 2014. You throw productivity away otherwise.

    • ADRA's experiences mirror by own. I've been using Eclipse for more than 10 years. There have been some hiccups, but the fact that I have been able to debug Java, SQL, JavaScript, C++, LaTeX, XSD, Schematron, and a few others, all in the same environment, while interacting with multiple code repositories convinces me that it's a solid product.
  • and yet... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by buddyglass (925859) on Monday February 03, 2014 @10:53PM (#46147113)
    ...I'm still running 3.7 because the 4.x releases are (by all accounts) still not "fixed". Sigh.
  • I've been using Eclipse for a few months on CentOs virtual machines for MapReduce development. The Maven m2e plugin is a huge boon. I never noticed Eclipse freezing unless it was doing something like cleaning the workspace, or updating the Maven local repo, or something like that, in which case it tells me it's doing something.

    I started doing more Java SE work, so I loaded the same setup onto my workstation that hosts the VMs, which is a pretty decent Win7 machine, and now sometimes it just freezes, then ca

  • 10 years... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03, 2014 @11:20PM (#46147229)

    ...and I'm still waiting for it to load!

  • The modern emacs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by oldhack (1037484) on Monday February 03, 2014 @11:56PM (#46147355)
    Eclipse has become a universe onto itself. It's got its own GUI kit, thread model, all kinds of stuff I'm too drunk to name at this moment.
  • OSGi (Score:4, Informative)

    by emorning (2465220) on Tuesday February 04, 2014 @12:02AM (#46147377)
    One of the most awesome things that the Eclipse people did was switch to a foundation built on OSGi after the first version. Eclipse is a showcase that showcase the power of a modular component framework.
    Sun really screwed up by failing to adopt OSGi for Java's module system.

    When I think of the best technologies available to the average Java developer like myself I rank the JVM first and OSGi second.

    With setup boxes now set to become ubiquitous, I want a box that integrates some OSGi-like framework that will enable me to integrate all the devices in my house.
    • by dkf (304284)

      One of the most awesome things that the Eclipse people did was switch to a foundation built on OSGi after the first version.
      Eclipse is a showcase that showcase the power of a modular component framework.

      The silly thing is that Eclipse is actually close to being the poster child for how not to do an application on top of OSGi. Equinox itself (the OSGi layer) is fine, but Eclipse effectively works very hard to not use the power it provides, instead doing its own weird things with class loaders that mean that you're stuck in a horrible limbo land where nothing quite works as you might hope.

    • by lehphyro (1465921)
      OSGi is a mess, I'm glad we're not going to use a runtime solution for something best solved at build time such as modularity for Java.
  • It's great.
    There a lot of shitty plugins when used as an IDE, like the Javascript ones that add JS validation and builders to your web projects, bring the IDE to a standstill when every they run.

  • Eclipse is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I've used it for many years, but the Kepler release has decided that it's going to do something Eclipse never did in the past: crash. Hard. As in *poof* -- it's gone.

    It's also been freezing up under Debian at random.

    The windows build seems more stable, and that's what I use for most debug sessions, but I *prefer* to work on my Linux box due to the better resolution and nicer interface devices than my laptop.

    But hey, it's a big project (both Eclipse

  • Well, I love it for just about all my C/Android/Java Servlet programming.

    The only thing I can't really use it for is LINUX kernel programming/device driver development.

    Just too big.

    But I would like to thank everyone who works on the plugins for Eclipse, especially Toad which is one of my favorites and svn plugin.

    Kisses and hugs to you all.

    xoxoxox :-)

  • by ledow (319597) on Tuesday February 04, 2014 @02:59AM (#46147859) Homepage

    Eclipse is my saviour. I needed a UI to program under and I haven't really been happy with one since the pre-.NET versions of Visual Basic (horrendous language, lovely development environment for me - I honestly think we lost something in not taking that UI further in open-source development environments).

    Got back into C99 and Eclipse with CDT was phenomenal. Bit of faffing with the config at first but I was able to get a development environment consistent across platforms, with all the tools you could ever want.

    The debug UI is fabulous, to me. The customisability of the workspace (get out of my damn way and let me code, oh except for that one REALLY useful feature that's earned the right to be there all the time, etc.). In a way, it's my development "Opera" - hugely customisable to my particular odd way of working.

    Plug it into gcc in its various flavours (native Linux, MinGW, Cygwin, etc.) and it's quite happy. Move your program to a Linux VM for testing and you can take the development UI with you if need be.

    Plug in every kind of tool imaginable, including fairly decent versioning management (not its strongest suit but more than capable). Upgrade simply by making a copy of the eclipse folder and then running the upgrade over the top.

    And - at the end of the day - when you have to write that Android wrapper for your program, or the website or online documentation of your masterpiece, you can do without even having to come out of it.

    Eclipse is what got me back into my programming and allowed me to push out several apps for my employers on a whim. None of the other programs managed that.

    And, best of all, it's free and keeps moving onwards. All the people I've heard whinge about Eclipse (which I've only been using since before Galileo) complain about it being heavy/buggy. It's something I've honestly not experienced and, damn, my buggy programming must test it to the limit sometimes. If you're developing on a "light" machine, I can't see how you're helping yourself. But I'm not using a supercomputer here, just a handful of fairly decent laptops / desktops.

    I think Eclipse is a little like Windows. Keep it clean, don't experiment too much with random third-party junk, and make backups of the working config (so easy in Eclipse that I have a folder of every named release that I've ever used just in case I needed to rollback) and it'll stay up and stay working. Mess about with it too much and it'll turn into an unmanaged piece of junk.

    I can't honestly say that I've ever seen it crash, though. And we're talking Windows (XP / 7) / Linux (Slackware and Ubuntu, several versions), desktop / laptop, old clunker and shiny new machine, and quite a lot of stuff plugged in (CDT, Android SDK, several SVN connectors as they've changed over the years, Valgrind, etc.).

  • It works fine for me. I like the fact I can just copy over the whole eclipes 'install' directory from one computer to another and it just seems to work.

    Same with workspaces, just copy that whole thing over. Works fine.

    I also use a mercurial plugin with it to save my code to bitbucket. Again, works like a dream.

    It's never crashed or slowed down for me (though I rarely update it, because it just works)

    However, I mainly code in C++ with it and have only produced one commercial java/android project with it...th

    • by Yosho (135835)

      It works fine for me. I like the fact I can just copy over the whole eclipes 'install' directory from one computer to another and it just seems to work.

      Same with workspaces, just copy that whole thing over. Works fine.

      That's exactly the problem with Eclipse. Sure, you can copy over the whole "install" directory -- but what if you're working on another computer that has Eclipse already installed and you just want to copy over your preferences? What if I want to share my color scheme with another user? What if I want to upgrade to a new version of Eclipse and keep my old preferences?

      What if I want to create a single project file that anybody on my team can open, regardless of where their Eclipse installation or workspac

  • It needed 2G of RAM 5 years ago... and growing. emacs has handed the bloatware crown on.....

                    mark, remembering brief

    • by Darinbob (1142669)

      I'm trying to remember when emacs was bloated enough to hurt performance. It was small and fast in 2000. It was bigger but still fast in 1990. 1985 was big and slower than the competing editors but still faster than some big do-it-all tools. Really, it was only bloated when you compared it to a basic editor like vi or edt, or if you were on a seriously underpowered computer (don't use emacs on a micro like Amiga or PC-XT, get microemacs instead).

"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are lots of old things we don't know yet." -Ambrose Bierce

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