Perl Community To Buy Damian Conway? 82
jbc writes: "As discussed over at use Perl, the Perl community is attempting to raise US$55K in donations to support Perl überhacker Damian Conway for a year so he can devote himself to worthwhile pursuits related to Perl development. Thanks to a large donation from an as-yet-unnamed corporate donor, they're apparently already more than halfway there." Update: 10/15 11:31 PM by H : To actually give, go to the YAPC site.
Re:There needs to be a fund raiser for some projec (Score:1)
In reality, more than one "paradigm" is probably useful. Not that one is better than the other, but that each has its place.
A "Street Performer" is an ongoing effort, while a telethon is a concentrated effort for a short period of time (thus leaving you alone for the majority of time!). Also, a telthon can employ famous personalities, so called "matching funds", and donated "premiums" to give to contributors.
Anyway, something to reflect upon...
Phill
Cheap for the community- boon for him. (Score:2)
There needs to be a fund raiser for some projects (Score:2)
For the same reasons public radio/TV raises money (how many listen to NPR??), open source projects need to raise funds. The applications are not neccesarily "commercially glamorous", but they are used and appreciated (let alone needed!) by a large number of people. And they don't have the commercial "entanglements" that for-profit entities are going to have.
The paralells that can be drawn from this are striking.
Who is John Galt? (Score:1)
Re:Patrons (Score:1)
Not that this doesn't go on now -- there's little shortage of "luxury" items, investment schemes, and so on, but I think that generic capitalism's choices for investment are probably better, albeit imperfect, for the society as a whole than the whims of rich guys.
It'd be interesting to see an "Open Source Development Fund" that you could donate to which would hand out funds to various projects. I'm sure that the FSF and others work this way, but it'd be nice to have one that could feel good about donating to a BSD project without getting lost in the licensing issues.
What Damian has to say about this... (Score:5)
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That's an astonishingly generous offer, Elaine. Thank-you.
I thought perhaps I should take the opportunity to explain the nature of -- and reason for -- the rush.
YAS has not been able to accept donations for this project until its tax status was confirmed. But my department at Monash University has now gone into the planning phase for next year, and needs to know within the next week or two whether they'll have my teaching/admin services for 2001 (which they most decidedly won't if the Perl community wants me).
So my department needs a clear indication of what I'm doing next year, which means YAS needs a clear indication of whether the community thinks "buying me out" is a worthwhile thing, and something they would actually fund (I'm not nearly egoistical enough to simply assume that the weird stuff I do is worth real money :-)
That's what's required by next week: pledges of support. Actual cash could come (a little) later.
Meanwhile, I've already been overwhelmed by the support that people have privately expressed for this. Whether or not the project comes together, I am deeply honoured and grateful that so many people seem to believe I would be worth "buying".
Re:55k? jesus fucking christ. (Score:1)
Re:vb script kiddies make more (Score:1)
Perhaps Damian is altruistic enough to share that view. I'm sure anyone as qualified as Damian (or Larry) would have no problems finding a higher-paying job if that's what they wanted.
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Re:Patrons (Score:1)
The modern world would be much different if it were not for the discoveries and art of these men. (if someone could reply to this message with some names of these artists and scientists, it would be much appreciated. I cannot remember any at the moment...)
Okay, the most famous patronees are probably Leonardo da Vinci, and Michelangelo (check the local art gallery for some others). Sir Francis Bacon supported himself (born to an aristocratic family, so he could afford to get interested in things such as alchemy and physics). Sir Joseph Banks (who financed Cook's expedition to the south Pacific to watch the transit of Venus) was another wealthy man who was interested in the sciences.
Generally, an interest in the arts and the sciences has been the purview of the rich and wealthy throughout the centuries. The greatest and most famous of the patrons was probably Lorenzo de Medici, who financed whole academies of alchemists and scientists back at the beginning of the Renaissance.
These are just the ones I can remember off-hand. I'm sure there's lots more to be found through perusal of the history books.
Meg Thornton.
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
More Info (Score:3)
Re:Keep this in mind when you vote (Score:1)
Tax Deduction Secondary... (Score:2)
This has the demerit that it doesn't buy you a tax deduction, but it may have the corresponding merit of allowing the gift to remain a gift, and NOT be taxable in the recipient's hands.
The point here is that there is little net difference between:
See Free Software (Gift) Exchange Registry - FSEX [hex.net] for a likely-more-coherent presentation.
Individual Patrons (Score:2)
This is arguably better than having the FSF and others manage funds, from several perspectives:
Multiply this 100,000 ways to have 100,000 agents acting in favor of their interests and you should get some interesting outcomes.
Thus, while you might want to see some of your money go to (oh, say) KDE, a FSF fund is likely to "bias" in favor of GNOME.
In contrast, if you send $5 to KDE yourself, or perhaps to a specific KDE developer, nobody else gets to gainsay you on that.
Other issues like "licensing biases" also get resolved by this.
If you decide to send some developer $5, you may get no tax deduction, but that may be offset if the developer doesn't need to declare it as income for tax purposes because it's a gift...
Re:Keep this in mind when you vote (Score:3)
That's what people were saying about the Republican party circa 1850; "they can't win, vote Whig!".
Heard from any Whig party members lately?
The Republican party won the 1860 Presidential election because people stopped falling for that and started leaving the Whigs for the Republicans.
Sort of like the influx of Libertarians defecting from the Republicans in recent years, or the similar defection (on a smaller scale) of Democrats to the Reform party.
And, of course, a few Democrats joining the Libertarians, and Republicans joining the Reform party.
Bottom line; it only takes a couple of elections to turn things around, *IF* people stop falling for this "two party system" bullshit and start voting their conscience.
Your vote won't determine the outcome of this election, but a massive groundswell of third-party voting this time could result in a change in the 2008 elections, and that's a very important thing to remember before you go condone and endorse a party who doesn't represent your beliefs in any meaningful way.
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There's precedent for this (Score:2)
Terminology (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
It doesn't take as much as you'd think. Sure he's making less money. But he'll start his new job with a lego desk and several AT-AT fighters.
Re:There's precedent for this (Score:1)
I want in on this. (Score:1)
Well, I think it's worthy....
Actually, I kind of worry. Does this mean he'll sepnd a year doing nothing but Perl? Just working on this one program day in and day out? Maybe I'm not fanatic enough, but that's kind of scary... I mean, some variety would probably be healthy.
-J
What are "worthwhile pursuits?" (Score:2)
I'm curious, though, how his work will be determined. The information at the link is fairly light, but it seems as if he will have free reign, making this is a beautiful thing. On the other hand, if the "sponsors" are simply paying to have their own agenda pushed, this doesn't feel so pure any more.
GPL Crack..? (Score:1)
Seeing the 'communitiy' give and give and give while BigComputer Co. talks about how open source is the future - and then we have to wonder where to get a stinking $55K to pay someone as renouned as this involved full time - and still compensate him.
Maybe GPL could involve some kind of registration - a minor fee - like 'Donation Ware' - where for-profit users are enouraged to donate to GNU.
What about Larry Wall? (Score:2)
More importantly, Damian Conway can help on Perl6 (Score:3)
I truly believe that if Damian Conway can be given a year to work on Perl 6 things and Perl in general, the community will be far better off. Now, please excuse me while I fork over my $50. :-)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Tom
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Who? (Score:1)
Re:This is easy (Score:1)
you've gotta be wasted to write perl, but it works anyway...
Next you'll be after Keroak (sic) and ruben carter.
but you won't take perl, you might have the speed, but we have the numbers.
There's got to be something left for those of us for whome the 'box' is an abstract concept....
Re:Great for the Perl community not for his studen (Score:2)
-- Michael Chermside
Re:But what would the $55k buy you? (Score:2)
Thad
Re:Wow (Score:1)
Re:Patrons (Score:1)
Further, one of the classic "criticisms" of the free software movement (and more importantly the anti IP ideal) is that without the protection of IP why would anyone invest in solving problems.
You are absolutely correct to say that patronage is a viable vehicle for implementing an alternative method of funding the sustainance of those whole would be the artisans of the new age. (BTW, Mozart, Beethoven would be classic examples [excuse the pun] of artists funded by patrons). However we could also use technology to help us out here.
Imagine a web site, RFPheaven.org (or whatever) where people can submit their problems and the amount of money they are willing to spend on solving them (including time frames etc) for the freelancers to bid on taking them. People could join on both sides of the bid (ie more money or more developers). Clearly the logistics of deliveries and acceptance (et al) must be resolved and agreed to by the parties, but that is detail (albeit tricky).
Using this kind of approach even someone with $10.00 can help get their problems solved. Ie everyone can become a patron.
Re:Great for the Perl community not for his studen (Score:1)
I am ashamed to admit that I also failed to correct their poor dress sense, their ignorance of medieval history, and their inability to juggle.
Damian
This is easy (Score:2)
Make (re)writing Perl Damian's pet project? Uhm. (Score:1)
At the same time, giving Damian money to go forth and do clever things with Perl 5 seems like a great idea to me. He's one of the cleverest and most engaging speakers I've ever encountered, in the programming arena anyway. I think I like the idea of him struggling with Perl 5 (and winning, mostly) better than the idea of him exerting any significant effect on the direction of Perl 6.
Things change, I know, but I'm hopeful that when "they" replace Perl with something completely different, it's not still called Perl. Maybe people could pay Damian to help write NuPerl and then there could be annual bakeoffs with Scheme and C++ and Eiffel. Which no doubt NuPerl would win due to its shameless built-in regex operators and hashes.
But please leave the heart of my anachronistic, idiosyncratic, ugly, yet proletarian and immensely useful, language alone.
Conway (Score:1)
Re:What about Larry Wall? (Score:1)
-Jon
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:2)
People only work to make money to spend this in their free time doing what they like to do most. Or that should be the case off course
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Re:There needs to be a fund raiser for some projec (Score:2)
Cheers,
Johnath
Wow (Score:2)
Btw, is use Perl using the slashdot code directly or is it a damn good copy?
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Worth the price (Score:4)
Who else is going to write Lingua::Romana:
This guy write the funniest, most intriguing perl modules around. And he gives really funny presentations. If you ever get a chance to see him give a lecture in person be sure not to miss it.
Re:Wow (Score:4)
Parse::RecDescent
Coy
Text::Balanced
Lingua::EN::Inflect
Quantum::Superpositions
Just to name a few. He has also created a yet to be published module to write Perl programs in Latin (Lingua::Romana::Perligata)! On top of that he is a tireless lecturer.
He has also written a very good book concerning OO and Perl: Object Oriented Perl [manning.com].
In fact, during this year's Perl Conference his series of talks was jokingly referred to as "Damian TV, all Damian, all the time." It would be very helpful to have Damian devote even just 1 year full time to Perl.
I hope this is enough to show you his value to the Perl Community.
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Jeremy
Re:Wow (Score:1)
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What happened to community development? (Score:2)
Brief Bio (Score:5)
Dr. Damian Conway is a Senior Lecturer in Computer Science and Software Engineering at Monash University (Melbourne, Australia), where he teaches object-oriented software engineering. He is an effective teacher, an accomplished writer, and the author of several popular Perl modules. He is also a semi-regular contributor to the Perl Journal. In 1998 he was the winner of the Larry Wall Award for Practical Utility for two modules (Getopt::Declare and Lingua::EN::Inflect) and in 1999 he won his second "Larry" for his Coy.pm haiku-generation module. He has just published "Object-Oriented Perl" (Manning, 1999).
Yes you do (Score:3)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Re:Brief Bio (Score:1)
I don't think so.
They do (Score:2)
If you check the perl6 mail list logs, you can see that both are quite active, and at least in Tom's case, his entire business rests upon the continued success of perl.
I was wondering when this would be brought up... (Score:2)
Re:Yes you do (Score:2)
Re:vb script kiddies make more (Score:1)
Re:vb script kiddies make more (Score:1)
Re:This is easy (Score:1)
*shakes you*
make sense before replying to me son.
Great for the Perl community not for his students (Score:1)
While I still think he should let the Perl community buy out his teaching duties it will be a shame for the students who miss out on taking his classes.
Wow Squared (Score:2)
As I watched the lecture unfold, and I understood just what a clever and puissant hack this was, I had the urge to get up and do the Wayne's World "I'm not worthy!" chant. There's nothing like the presence of greatness to make you feel like a rank amateur.
Later, he did his Quantum::Superposition talk, which was impressive whether you look at it as physics, programming, or stand-up comedy.
Now think about this: he came up with all these neat hacks literally in his spare time, between teaching C to freshmen and writing material for publication in "real" CompSci literature.
$55,000 for a year of Damian's full attention? Worth every penny IMHO (especially since that year coincides with gestation and early maturation of Perl 6).
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
--weenie NT4 user: bite me!
Teacher (Score:2)
HE WAS THE BEST LECTURER I HAVE EVER HAD.
His lectures are ALWAYS full, purely because he makes whatever he's teaching so interesting! There were always people up the front of the lecture hall participating in some sort of demonstration (like his "pick-up line" game, which taught encapsulation incredibly well).
I remember one lecture, someone walked in about 20 minutes late. He had green 3/4 length pants on, no shoes, one of those puffy jackets and red hair. As he was walking up the back to sit down, Damian stopped what he was saying, pointed to the guy, and said, "oh my god, it's a leprechaun!" (all in good fun, everyone - including the guy - couldn't stop laughing).
Re:Worth the price (Score:1)
Re:Brief Bio (Score:1)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
And could you support a family on that?
Actually I'm making $1000/wk and supporting a family of two (soon three) kids, house, 2 cars and all the relevant bills. So yes, it is possible, even easily so. I'm not in Southern Cali though so there may be a fair conversion factor involved there. :-)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Think about it. How much would you have to be paid to work for some corporation doing things they wanted you to do? Okay. How much would you have to be paid to do things you thought were just the coolest things in the world that you completely enjoyed doing?
In my case, I'm looking at around a fifty-percent reduction between the two... Maybe more.
Re:55k? jesus fucking christ. (Score:1)
Re:Wow (Score:1)
Neat eh?
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
Patrons (Score:5)
The modern world would be much different if it were not for the discoveries and art of these men. (if someone could reply to this message with some names of these artists and scientists, it would be much appreciated. I cannot remember any at the moment...)
I have felt for a long time that free software development could benefit from this model.
How many great developers are out there who have to work 8 hours a day, before coming home exhausted to fit in 2 or 3 hours of coding between dinner and bedtime?
So here's the next point. Altough the wave of get rich quick startups that characterized the laste 90's is in decline, there are now 1000's of financially sufficent millionaire developers.
If you are one of there people, run down to your investment counselor and find out how you could donate a couple of grand a year to Open Source development. There's probably some loophole that would make it tax exempt or a deduction. Get together with some of your millionaire friends and pick a project to sponsor. It doesn't have to be perl, but a project that you feel could benefit your interests and hopfully the interests of the community by having a full time developer(s). Go to sourceforge and find one that looks cool. Perl, linux kernel development, freenet, maybe a game engine. It's your money, but you could use it to help us all.
But what would the $55k buy you? (Score:4)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:2)
And could you support a family on that? Honestly now... at least in california, perl developers are making anywhere from $60k - $100k. I think that Mr. Conway would be at the top of the pay scale here. For him to take $55k/yr would be a donation to the community, even more so than his work so far.
vb script kiddies make more (Score:1)
Actual URL for donation pledges (Score:1)
You have to dig a bit to find this...
http://registration.yapc.org/ [yapc.org]$55K not a joke. (Score:1)
Sure, it's not an extreme amount of cash, but since it'd be a donation straight to Damian, he would actually be better off than if he earned $70K from a corporation....
Add to that the freedom of doing whatever he wanted , and you have a winner. Besides, a lot of well known programmers have enough cash to actually partake in projects like this without feeling financially strained by a small-ish donation...Steve Woston for instance, often does programming boot camps for beginning computer game programmers.I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this kind of thing happening - and it's a good thing, after all, in the end, Conway's stills devoted full time to Perl hacking will increase Perl's chances of becoming the next killer open suorce language app.
URL for donations (Score:3)
If you want to contribute to the Damian fund, you can pay online with a credit card at:
http://registration.yapc.org/ [yapc.org]
Re:55k? jesus fucking christ. (Score:1)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
ORA Perl university class (Score:1)
Re:The very best (Score:1)
Yup, he's the best lecturer I had too. More anecdotes:
He actually makes QuickSort understandable, and makes it look easy.
His code is full of puns. Grab his excellent Object-Oriented perl (no, it ain't an oxymoron: read it!), and see some good examples:
my $grain = "headache";
${"grain"} = "rye";
Man, I miss him.
Re:What are "worthwhile pursuits?" (Score:1)
The deal is that I will have total freedom to work on whatever I think is worth doing. Currently that's looking like:
To their great credit, none of the major companies that have offered to help fund this experiment has even mentioned the issue of "artistic control".
But let me make it plain: no-one -- no matter how much they offer -- will get any say in what I do. Funding with strings attached will be politely but firmly declined (even if that means this venture doesn't happen at all).
You have my word on it.
Damian Conway
Keep this in mind when you vote (Score:1)
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Re:Worth the price (Score:1)
Re:$55k is that all?? what a joke (Score:1)
If that's USD then it is probably about what Conwei-san already makes. Lecturers and proffessors aren't paid that well. This is balanced by living in Melbourne, which is pretty cheap when you know where to look.
I had Damian as my project supervisor many years ago, I hope this turns out well for him.
Veltyen