For Sale: 1 Damian Conway, 1 Dan Sugalski 96
Kurt writes "Yet Another Society, through its newly formed Perl Foundation, is launching yet another fund drive to help support the Perl community. This year we will be supporting Damian Conway and Dan Sugalski. Damian will continue to work on a variety of Perl 5 modules and the design of Perl 6. Dan will continue his work on the implementation of Perl 6. More details are available at the Perl Foundation web site. Contributions are tax deductible, so donate today!" Many people will remember when we did this last year. I think it's been a roaring success. So go donate!
Buying people... (Score:2, Funny)
How much will feeding them / boarding them cost?
Re:Buying people... (Score:5, Funny)
"They don't do Windows"...
(nuck, nuck, nuck...)
Re:Buying people... (Score:2, Insightful)
*you* may not do windows, but why would such a prolific programming language cut off a huge chunk of potential audience.
Oh sorry, you implied microsoft was bad, so I should laugh. nyuk nyuk.
Re:Perl, eh... (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, it is horribly complex.
Look at that hello world program for example:
print "Hello World!";
Now, that's some complex piece of software. Ok, let's say you want to have a list of strings. You could do so like that:
@list = ("element1", "element2", "element3")
Well, just try to do the same in C.
Contrary to popular belief, Perl is easy. The thing is that you don't need to know everything to use it. Just a small subset will satisfy you.
People think it is hard because of the syntax and variety of constructs you can use. Well, for sure Perl is very flexible. But in no way it is a defficiency of the language. Perl is of course better suited to some tasks, as is any programming language.
And to those who think that all Perl programs are incomprehensible pieces of rubbish, remember this: Only Bad Programmers Code Badly in Perl(tm).
Re:Perl, eh... (Score:1)
Re:Perl, eh... (Score:1)
Try the range operator sometime... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, you wanna see something would really twist C's noodle? Try this one:
push(@list, "element${_}") for (1 .. 20);
And of course, there are all sorts of cool things built into Perl. Like the "spaceship" operator, regexes, the || and && operators returning the last value evaluated (as opposed to 1 or 0), about five hundred ways to iterate/loop, $_, etc. There's also my personal favorites: lack of strong (any, really) typing and being able to create any type of variable/structure on the fly. They're also Perl's largest complaints, which is probably why I'm so partial to them. There's nothing like being able to just make a "$foo = 123;" statement and then append a string to it... :-)
But the orginal poster was correct: Perl can be very complex. It can also be very simple. It's like they say, Perl makes easy things easy and hard things possible. I love having enough rope to hang myself; others need more structure. To each his own. Choice is a very good thing.
-B
Re:Try the range operator sometime... (Score:3, Funny)
It's the "greater than equal less than" comparison operator, like from the Schwartzian Transform or some such:
sort { $a->[1] <=> $b->[1] } map { [$_, -s] } @array;
The Jargon File has a good definition [tuxedo.org]. I've also seen people use the term for something like this:
while (<>) { print };
That looks more like the goatse operator to me, though.
-B
Re:Try the range operator sometime... (Score:1)
I feel so dirty.
Re:Try the range operator sometime... (Score:1)
<=> returns -1, 0 or 1 if the left argument is respectively smaller, equal or greater than the right argument.
(1 <=> 2) == -1
(1 <=> 1) == 0
(2 <=> 1) == 1
List of lists (Score:1)
For example:
my $list_of_lists = [
['foo', 'bar', 'baz'],
['a', 'b', 'c'],
];
And then to print it out...
foreach my $list (@$list_of_lists) {
print join (' ', @$list);
print "\n";
}
It's really quite easy.
We use Perl for many tasks where I work, and have several thousand lines of our own library files. I've found it to be very maintainable and incredibly flexible. Our coders write excellent, well-designed, readable code in Perl. Most of the time we take advantage of Perl's easy, powerful features so we can develop quickly. However, when we need to optimize, that's available as well. It's turned out to be a great tool for us.
--Bruce
Re:Perl, eh... (Score:1, Interesting)
> print "Hello World!";
printf "Hello World!";
> @list = ("element1", "element2", "element3")
char list[]={"element1","element2","element3"};
> Well, just try to do the same in C.
i just did. of course, to compile it, you need to:
#include
int
main()
{ }
but those lines are trivial in any program.
no, thanks.... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:no, thanks.... (Score:1)
[outrageous_french_accent]
I can ask im, but I don think heel be very keen! You see, we've already got one!
[aside]
Hehe, I told im we already got one!! heheheh.
Donate all ! This might be very good. (Score:1, Troll)
For this reason many computer scientist like very lowly of perl, basic or even lisp. But I think this is not right. Such easy to learn languages serve very well to make children interested in computers. This has many good effects.
- Many of these children become addicted to computers and become in later life computer scientists or electrical engineers.
- You have to read a lot when using a computer, so programming languages fight illiteracy.
The best example for this are the slashdot editors who improve their spelling by programming in perl.
- It keeps the children off the street and keeps them from smoking crack or raid candy stores.
- It make people buying computers and help the ruined computer industry.
So donate please all money ! This is all very good.Ebay (Score:4, Funny)
A few questions:
Are they housetrained? If I buy both of them do I have to keep them in seperate cages or can I let them play together? Is there any sort of special diet I need to be aware of? (I'm not sure if the dollar store is still selling six packs of Jolt and I'm morally against "extreme" doritos)
Ack! is it finals week already (Score:1)
I meant "sell them on Ebay" not "see them on Ebay"
and I don't know why I put the "of" in the second sentance, "againt" should be "against", etc.
sorry folks
These guys should contact O'Reilly ... (Score:4, Insightful)
But dunno how much people will be willing to fork out to charity during tough times.. last year this time, things were much better.
Re:These guys should contact O'Reilly ... (Score:3, Informative)
"The list of contributors, as well as the work produced under the grant, are at http://yetanother.org/damian. BlackStar, Morgan Stanley, VA Linux, Manning Publications, O'Reilly and Associates, and Stonehenge Consulting also made major contributions. "
Re:These guys should contact O'Reilly ... (Score:4, Insightful)
O'Reilly also keeps Larry Wall on staff, and just let
him do whatever he wants.
Lack of support for the perl community is not
one of O'Reilly's problems.
No more Larry (Score:2)
Re:These guys should contact O'Reilly ... (Score:1)
Because you think they are not already making money with O'Reilly?
And don't worry, someone will come up front to pay them, some companies are very interested in funding Perl development further.
Money for Camels (Score:1)
Re:Money for Camels (Score:1)
Re:Money for Camels (Score:1)
Groovy dude...
Perl.NET? (Score:2, Funny)
Are these guys working on Perl.NET? Do I have to have a Passport account to donate?
Re:Perl.NET? (Score:2)
I don't know if you are making a joke, but somebody [activestate.com] already is [activestate.com].
But wait, there's more!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But wait, there's more!!! (Score:2)
(From perl-foundation.org's front page, emphasis mine)
donations (Score:2, Insightful)
That got me thinking: could the money be better used elsewhere? A $10 donation to a PERL hacker will buy him a six pack and some chips. $10 to the right humanitarian organization will literally save people's lives. But I guess that with donating to the PERL guys, you'll actually get to see some results from your charity. With most humanitarian groups you never know where the money goes.
Your Right!! (Score:2)
*extras mean anything other than basic food stuffs, no cable tv, nothing not absolutly needed for everyday life....
I'm feeling rather cynical, but not about this (Score:1, Troll)
Donating to support these guys, and keep them working in the public interest benefits me immediately, as I use software that uses perl, or at the very least I use software that uses software that uses perl. They do good work for us as a software community, so turning around and supporting them has immediate, tangible benefits.
On the other hand, feeding the otherwise doomed throughout the world provides us with no real benefits and is indeed detrimental, as there are more people with whome we must then compete for oxygen, or at least listen to their bitching and moaning because we have something they don't, or don't worship their god, or do worship their god but not by the same name, or do worship their god by the same name but not in the same way, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Better that they just die and clear out the way for more sensible, or at least more civil, folks.
Besides, the Saudis have returned the favor of having the industrialized world make them incredibly wealthy by becoming a source of hatred and terrorism directed against the very cultures that made them rich. What makes you think helping some other disadvanted sop with free handouts is going to have any better effect down the road.
Yes, I just got done watching the Osama tape and it shows.
[1]Where the Buffalo Roam
Shilling For Amazon... (Score:4, Insightful)
In this case I might go against my set ways, but if they'd set up an Honor System account I wouldn't be writing this note right now, I'd be donating!
Re:Shilling For Amazon... (Score:2, Informative)
Disadvantage of using amazon: they charge $0.15 per donation, plus 15%. If you donate $20, then, the perl peeps only get $16.85.
Re:Shilling For Amazon... (Score:4, Insightful)
Especially because I hate to use credit cards/love to use my debit card, I like sharing the card number as few places as I can get by with. That 15% they lose is the cost of my piece of mind and the convenience of my donation. (Though, like I say, I'll probably make an exception in this case, but that doesn't mean I don't reserve my right to grumble about it.)
Re:Shilling For Amazon... (Score:1)
Re:Shilling For Amazon... (Score:2)
Many geeks (including Perl geek Mark-Jason Dominus [plover.com]) are still boycotting Amazon because of their software patents.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Recommend a contribution level? (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, the Perl Foundation is not the only ligitimate recipient of such contributions.
Re:Recommend a contribution level? (Score:1)
Who is Dan Sugalski? (Score:2)
Damian has a nice description of things he wants to work on at the yetanother.org link above (terrible color scheme, btw - only suitable for very late-night browsing).
And who are they going to "buy" if they can only raise half the necessary funds?
Re:Who is Dan Sugalski? (Score:1)
without dan perl 6 just won't be the same.
It's a poor system... (Score:4, Interesting)
The more examples I see of this the more I've come to see that the open-source development model is getting less and less credible as a way to do large-scale projects.
Developing software using the proprietary model may not always produce the greatest code, but there's no doubt that it provides a good income to thousands of developers with average skills that allows them to support their families.
Re:It's a poor system... (Score:1)
Thanks for pointing this out. For some of us around here, coding is our day job!
Re:It's a poor system... (Score:1)
I read it as an acknowledgement that both men have done good things in the past, and that sponsorship would allow them to produce more work at the same (or greater) levels of quality.
If either Dr. Conway or Dan were *begging* for money, that would be one thing. This, however, wasn't their idea. I suspect they'd keep doing what they're doing anyway. Well, except for the Damian World Tour. :)
Re:It's a poor system... (Score:2, Insightful)
Synthroid
Fosamax
Rezulin
and the inattentive programmers perennial favorite: Ritalin
Count me in when the time comes. Lord knows I've made enough money hacking Perl. I can give a little back.
Invest in Schwern (Score:1)
This kind of yeoman's work is representative of the stuff Schwern does to make Perl better. Complements the Conway.
I'm torn . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
On one hand: This is great for Perl. Anyone who has dabbled in the language knows that Damian has Plans for Perl what we mere mortals can never truly understand. I'm still drooling over the thought of a proper switch statement in Perl. As for curried expressions, well, if they're anything as good as curried chicken, I'm all for it.
On the other hand: There's a whole generation of Monash University students growing up without having the joy of being taught by Damian. The poor things are getting substandard teaching (well, actually, they're probably getting standard teaching; what I know they're not getting is superstandard teaching), and they are graduating without the fond memories of the acted-out-in-lectures singles-bar analogy for C++ polymorphism. (You Monash graduates know what I'm talking about.)
On the gripping hand: I'm easily the next-best Perl programmer to be teaching at Monash University. With Damian out of the way, it's only a matter of time before total domination of Monash is mine . . .
Re:I'm torn . . . (Score:1)
I enjoy teaching when I get the chance, but I know I'm way short of these heights. I've volunteered to do some mathematics and astronomy teaching for the local 'gifted kids' program to keep my hand in. Teaching *and* perl programming - the ideal job
Ah well, time to stop wasting my employer's time by posting to slashdot and instead to continue wasting it by writing Perl programs to generate random sentences in English and Latin.
The free money thinks about ancient gates.
Pecunia libera portis antiquis cogitat.
Re:I'm torn . . . (Score:1)
Though I'm looking forward to getting above standard teaching when I do Perl next year. So, about my marks... *grins*
Re:I'm torn . . . (Score:2)
I can't wait for the T shirt... (Score:1)
#!/Damian/is/my/bitch
cLive ;-)
Moving free software development "offshore?" (Score:1)
Of course you won't get stellar free software gurus at once, but you can grow the developers.
at least it's not like PBS ... (Score:1)