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Perl Programming

For Sale: 1 Damian Conway, 1 Dan Sugalski 96

Kurt writes "Yet Another Society, through its newly formed Perl Foundation, is launching yet another fund drive to help support the Perl community. This year we will be supporting Damian Conway and Dan Sugalski. Damian will continue to work on a variety of Perl 5 modules and the design of Perl 6. Dan will continue his work on the implementation of Perl 6. More details are available at the Perl Foundation web site. Contributions are tax deductible, so donate today!" Many people will remember when we did this last year. I think it's been a roaring success. So go donate!
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For Sale: 1 Damian Conway, 1 Dan Sugalski

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  • Do they cook? Clean?

    How much will feeding them / boarding them cost?
  • by msouth ( 10321 )
    ...we've already bought a Damian Conway. We're not interested in whatever cheap imitation you're trying to foist on us.

    • [outrageous_french_accent]

      I can ask im, but I don think heel be very keen! You see, we've already got one!

      Hehe, I told im we already got one!! heheheh.
  • Hobbiest programming languages like perl or basic are of course not suitable for professional purposes.
    For this reason many computer scientist like very lowly of perl, basic or even lisp. But I think this is not right. Such easy to learn languages serve very well to make children interested in computers. This has many good effects.
    • Many of these children become addicted to computers and become in later life computer scientists or electrical engineers.
    • You have to read a lot when using a computer, so programming languages fight illiteracy. The best example for this are the slashdot editors who improve their spelling by programming in perl.
    • It keeps the children off the street and keeps them from smoking crack or raid candy stores.
    • It make people buying computers and help the ruined computer industry.
    So donate please all money ! This is all very good.
  • Ebay (Score:4, Funny)

    by Descartes ( 124922 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @05:50PM (#2701199) Homepage
    I wonder if you could see them on Ebay? Maybe try selling of shares or something like that... probably againt their rules. I bet you'd get lots of visibility that way though.

    A few questions:
    Are they housetrained? If I buy both of them do I have to keep them in seperate cages or can I let them play together? Is there any sort of special diet I need to be aware of? (I'm not sure if the dollar store is still selling six packs of Jolt and I'm morally against "extreme" doritos)
    • ok I'm probably just a victim of sleep derprivation

      I meant "sell them on Ebay" not "see them on Ebay"
      and I don't know why I put the "of" in the second sentance, "againt" should be "against", etc.

      sorry folks
  • by cygnusx ( 193092 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @05:51PM (#2701204) Homepage
    ... with the money they make out of selling Perl books, they could easily fulfil a goodly part of the modest $55000 [yetanother.org] they talk about on this page. (Yes, I know 55k was the *2001* budget.)

    But dunno how much people will be willing to fork out to charity during tough times.. last year this time, things were much better.
  • Damien writes many great modules and great articles for the community. I don't know anything about the other guy but this is a great charity to give to so we can free up uber 3l337 Perl hackers from their day jobs to make Perl even better.
  • Perl.NET? (Score:2, Funny)

    by phloda ( 530937 )

    Are these guys working on Perl.NET? Do I have to have a Passport account to donate?

  • by cei ( 107343 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @05:55PM (#2701231) Homepage Journal
    Order today, and we'll include a Randal Schwartz [stonehenge.com] at no additional cost!!!
    • heh, yes, I get the joke, but thought I would point out the irony, too:

      (From perl-foundation.org's front page, emphasis mine)

      BlackStar, Morgan Stanley, VA Linux, Manning Publications, O'Reilly and Associates, and
      Stonehenge Consulting also made major contributions [to the orginal Damian Conway grant].
  • donations (Score:2, Insightful)

    by CmdrSanity ( 531251 )
    This article kind of got me thinking. Initially I thought it would be a great idea to send these guys some money for their hard work (and take a little tax deduction for myself on the side :) ). But then I saw some troll post about how he was glad that there was charity that didn't involve "starving black children."

    That got me thinking: could the money be better used elsewhere? A $10 donation to a PERL hacker will buy him a six pack and some chips. $10 to the right humanitarian organization will literally save people's lives. But I guess that with donating to the PERL guys, you'll actually get to see some results from your charity. With most humanitarian groups you never know where the money goes.

    • And if we cut out all the extras* we spend money on we can feed a lot of people!!!

      *extras mean anything other than basic food stuffs, no cable tv, nothing not absolutly needed for everyday life....
      • And if we cut out all the extras* we spend money on we can feed a lot of people!!!

        Donating to support these guys, and keep them working in the public interest benefits me immediately, as I use software that uses perl, or at the very least I use software that uses software that uses perl. They do good work for us as a software community, so turning around and supporting them has immediate, tangible benefits.

        On the other hand, feeding the otherwise doomed throughout the world provides us with no real benefits and is indeed detrimental, as there are more people with whome we must then compete for oxygen, or at least listen to their bitching and moaning because we have something they don't, or don't worship their god, or do worship their god but not by the same name, or do worship their god by the same name but not in the same way, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Better that they just die and clear out the way for more sensible, or at least more civil, folks.

        Besides, the Saudis have returned the favor of having the industrialized world make them incredibly wealthy by becoming a source of hatred and terrorism directed against the very cultures that made them rich. What makes you think helping some other disadvanted sop with free handouts is going to have any better effect down the road.

        Yes, I just got done watching the Osama tape and it shows. :-/ Quoting a old film: "fuck the doomed"[1]

        [1]Where the Buffalo Roam
  • by ObligatoryUserName ( 126027 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @06:14PM (#2701333) Journal
    I hate to sound like an advertisement, but as a rule I'm probably 2-300% more likely to donate money if people use the uber-easy Amazon Honor system. I don't have to give anyone new my personal information, it all happens in a few quick clicks, and it doesn't have fits with my debit card like PayPal does (they require a 1 time refunded charge to verify the card since it isn't linked to a billing address like a credit card is - I know it's for my own good, but knowing that it would take a month to process always saps my will.)

    In this case I might go against my set ways, but if they'd set up an Honor System account I wouldn't be writing this note right now, I'd be donating!

    • by jslag ( 21657 )
      In this case I might go against my set ways, but if they'd set up an Honor System account I wouldn't be writing this note right now, I'd be donating!

      Disadvantage of using amazon: they charge $0.15 per donation, plus 15%. If you donate $20, then, the perl peeps only get $16.85.

      • by ObligatoryUserName ( 126027 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @06:47PM (#2701532) Journal
        85% of $20 is a heck of a lot more than 100% of $0.

        Especially because I hate to use credit cards/love to use my debit card, I like sharing the card number as few places as I can get by with. That 15% they lose is the cost of my piece of mind and the convenience of my donation. (Though, like I say, I'll probably make an exception in this case, but that doesn't mean I don't reserve my right to grumble about it.)
    • I'll nudge the perl-foundation.org folks and see what they can do. (No idea how much work's involved, or what paperwork needs filing for access)
    • Many geeks (including Perl geek Mark-Jason Dominus [plover.com]) are still boycotting Amazon because of their software patents.

  • by austad ( 22163 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @06:15PM (#2701345) Homepage
    I ordered a Tim Conway awhile back because he was on clearance. The first sales rep didn't even know they still had one around. Well, they sent me a Damian Conway instead. I couldn't get him to do the "Dorf" bit, and he wouldn't wear stupid clothes or talk like a Norwegian at all. I tried to return him, but they wouldn't take him back because when I opened the box, I automatically agreed to their EULA which was inside.

    Finally, after several weeks of complaining they let me ship him back for an exchage. Except they accidentally sent me Conway Twitty this time. Actually I'm not so sure it was an accident. Anyway, Conway Twitty happily does a norwegian accent so I'm fairly satisfied. Except he keeps trying to seduce my grandma...
  • by Michael Woodhams ( 112247 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @06:17PM (#2701361) Journal
    Perhaps the Perl community could calculate some recommended annual contribution per line of code for companies that use Perl. (E.g. 100k lines of code at $0.01/line/year = $1000.) Do some comparisons with how much companies pay for commercial compilers compared to how many lines of code they have to show them that they are getting a good deal (applying corrections for the absence of tech support and manuals not being included in the price.)

    Of course, the Perl Foundation is not the only ligitimate recipient of such contributions.
  • And what will he do? OK, maybe I don't get around CPAN enough. But Damian Conway I know from his books and modules. I just don't recognize Dan's name.

    Damian has a nice description of things he wants to work on at the yetanother.org link above (terrible color scheme, btw - only suitable for very late-night browsing).

    And who are they going to "buy" if they can only raise half the necessary funds?

  • by ab315 ( 443209 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @07:23PM (#2701715)
    ...that makes its best developers beg for money.

    The more examples I see of this the more I've come to see that the open-source development model is getting less and less credible as a way to do large-scale projects.

    Developing software using the proprietary model may not always produce the greatest code, but there's no doubt that it provides a good income to thousands of developers with average skills that allows them to support their families.

    • Developing software using the proprietary model may not always produce the greatest code, but there's no doubt that it provides a good income to thousands of developers with average skills that allows them to support their families.

      Thanks for pointing this out. For some of us around here, coding is our day job!

    • How is this a failing of the "open source development model"? If anything, it looks like a success.

      I read it as an acknowledgement that both men have done good things in the past, and that sponsorship would allow them to produce more work at the same (or greater) levels of quality.

      If either Dr. Conway or Dan were *begging* for money, that would be one thing. This, however, wasn't their idea. I suspect they'd keep doing what they're doing anyway. Well, except for the Damian World Tour. :)

    • Back-up folks. Soliciting contributions to fund the work of major contributors to the significant development of a great tool is in no way a sign of failure. It's a time tried model that has brought us a lot of great advances in a multitude of other areas. Here's a great example: A pharmaceutical company gives a research grant to a university professor to conduct a study or work on a treatment for a specific condition that he/she/it may not otherwise be able to dedicate time to. Yeah, I know, there are attendant patent issues and all that; but the idea is still sound. Some life saving drugs that were produced on the same model:

      and the inattentive programmers perennial favorite: Ritalin

      Count me in when the time comes. Lord knows I've made enough money hacking Perl. I can give a little back.
  • http://search.cpan.org/doc/MSCHWERN/Test-More-0.08 /lib/Test/More.pm

    This kind of yeoman's work is representative of the stuff Schwern does to make Perl better. Complements the Conway.
  • I'm torn . . . (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DeborahArielPickett ( 336742 ) on Thursday December 13, 2001 @08:22PM (#2701981)
    I suppose I have a slightly different perspective on this than most folks on slashdot. I teach the one and only Perl course at Monash University. Damian's office is three doors down the hall from mine (when he's in his office at all, which isn't often). I had the good fortune to be taught by Damian when I was an undergrad.

    On one hand: This is great for Perl. Anyone who has dabbled in the language knows that Damian has Plans for Perl what we mere mortals can never truly understand. I'm still drooling over the thought of a proper switch statement in Perl. As for curried expressions, well, if they're anything as good as curried chicken, I'm all for it.

    On the other hand: There's a whole generation of Monash University students growing up without having the joy of being taught by Damian. The poor things are getting substandard teaching (well, actually, they're probably getting standard teaching; what I know they're not getting is superstandard teaching), and they are graduating without the fond memories of the acted-out-in-lectures singles-bar analogy for C++ polymorphism. (You Monash graduates know what I'm talking about.)

    On the gripping hand: I'm easily the next-best Perl programmer to be teaching at Monash University. With Damian out of the way, it's only a matter of time before total domination of Monash is mine . . .

    • I had a physics lecturer like that once - describing how in a semiconductor the lonely holes and electrons would meet and annihilate each other in a burst of passion. A great teacher is a joy to behold.

      I enjoy teaching when I get the chance, but I know I'm way short of these heights. I've volunteered to do some mathematics and astronomy teaching for the local 'gifted kids' program to keep my hand in. Teaching *and* perl programming - the ideal job :-).

      Ah well, time to stop wasting my employer's time by posting to slashdot and instead to continue wasting it by writing Perl programs to generate random sentences in English and Latin.

      The free money thinks about ancient gates.
      Pecunia libera portis antiquis cogitat.
    • Actually, we're getting substandard teaching. But that's a personal gripe.

      Though I'm looking forward to getting above standard teaching when I do Perl next year. So, about my marks... *grins*
    • Female.. Perl.. coder.. must.. res..ist..
  • #!/Damian/is/my/bitch

    cLive ;-)

  • Given the programmers' salaries paid to programmers in "First World" countries, how about pushing development to countries with lower cost of living, salaries, etc.?

    Of course you won't get stellar free software gurus at once, but you can grow the developers.
  • At least the Perl community hasn't rigged up PBS.pm that breaks in while a program is running to ask for money....

One good suit is worth a thousand resumes.