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Mozilla The Internet

Phoenix Project Considers A Name Change 140

Posted by timothy from the what-about-anka-or-pheng dept.
Magpie writes "Recently Blake Ross, a developer of the Phoenix web browser, has made a post on the Mozillazine forums looking for a new name for the project. Apparently the people over at Phoenix Technologies decided that the name interferes with their trademark since they make an 'internet access device .'" Maybe they could start with this list.
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Phoenix Project Considers A Name Change More

Phoenix Project Considers A Name Change

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  • Ho-ho! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 07, 2002 @09:07PM (#4622238)
    Ho-Ho/ Ho-Oo
    The name for the Japanese phoenix

    Come on, wouldn't that sound great? "Yeah, you Run Internet Explorer 7.2, but *I* run "Ho ho oh-point-nine".

  • Has anyone thought of.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Thomas A. Anderson ( 114614 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @09:13PM (#4622269) Homepage
    Minizilla?

    Microzilla?

    Nanozilla?

    Picozilla?

  • Note: I removed the explanation of each bird so it would not be too long.

    Alicanto, Anka, Ba, Bennu, Feng-huang, Harpies, Heloha, Ho-Ho/ Ho-Oo, Hyrcinian birds, Karshipta, Melatha, Nunyanune, Pegais, Pheng, Phoenix, Poua-Kai, Roc/ Ruc/ Rukh, Shang-Yang, Simurg/ Senmurv, Skyamsen, Stymphalian Birds, Thunderbird, Tlanuwa, Ziz
    • Of the list in the parent I vote Roc.

      My personal favourite if it has to have wings is Seraphim.

      Or you could just spell Phoenix differently: Fenix. Nah, sounds like an operating system.

      Or how about Bennu, the Ancient Egyptian phoenix.

  • How about ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by one9nine ( 526521 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @09:19PM (#4622291) Journal
    Tucson? Yuma? Flagstaff?

  • Christ, what bullshit (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dh003i ( 203189 ) <dh003i@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @09:44PM (#4622440) Homepage Journal
    Ya know, I get sick of this crap. This is exactly why trademark laws as they currently exist are bullshit.

    The Phoenix browser will not be confused with things produced by Phoenix Technologies. And the Mozilla developers certainly didn't name it Phoenix to take advantage of the wide name recognition (sarcasm here) of Phoenix Technologies.

    Trademarks should only come into issue between competing products which are the exact same type of product (i.e., two different web browsers).

    Another case of companies getting in the way of progress.
    • Trademarks should only come into issue between competing products which are the exact same type of product (i.e., two different web browsers
      Duh, they already do. Your trademark only applies over your industry as defined by common knowledge. There is an exception for very popular names, in which trademark applies over all, but this is not the case here.

      Here we have a computer software and hardware company named Phoenix vs another bit of software named Phoenix.

      "Wahh! I should be able to release my McDonalds Panini because when you think about it it's not actually burger!"

      "This is type 6 washer screw -- don't they understand this computely different to a type 4 washer screw??"

      And so on, with distinctions that only people in the industry know, and therefore not being the kind of distinctions that trademark law bothers with.

      • Oh please, there's a huge difference between an internet browser and whbat Phoenix Technologies makes. There's nothing listed under Phoenix Technologies' Products or Solutions that even resembles an Internet Browser. In fact, most common users wouldn't even know what the stuff is that Phoenix Technologies sell. However, its widely known what an internet browser is.

        Trademark should only apply to the very specific type of product that you have. Industries are huge places, and its absurd to speak of trademark violations when talking about a browser violating the trademarks of (say) an OS. There should be no exception for popular names.
        • Only a geek would remember or care for the differentiation that you're making, which is why it doesn't count.
          • Oh please. You know, I think you've responded to me before, because I've heard that exact same thing. The general public is aware of the different between an internet browser, and e-mail program, and a chat program.

            Even if not, why should law be based around the stupidity of the masses? Trademark law is bullshit and should be reformed.
            • Oh please. You know, I think you've responded to me before, because I've heard that exact same thing.
              Yeah, because I'm only the only one that says it *rolls-eyes*

              You've demonstrated that you're not one to speak for the general public. You're completely out of touch.

              Trademark law _in this case_ is quite sane.

              • The general public has never even heard of Phoenix technologies. Before this article, most of us on /. have never heard of Phoenix technologies. For those who have, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to distinguish between an internet browser and whatever it is that Phoenix makes. The mozilla developers chose the name Phoenix for their browser, having never heard of Phoenix technologies. Why should they have to change it because Phoenix technologies is whining? The simple fact is that the Phoenix web browser is more commonly and widely known than Phoenix Technologies.

                No, trademark law does not make sense in this case. Its just a way for corporations to divide up the dictionary amongst themselves. Goliath beating up on David.
            • There is no difference between an internet browser, an email program, and a chat program, to a lot of people. They use AOL which wraps it all up in one piece. And isn't there now some MSN abomination that does that same thing??
            • The general public is aware of the different between an internet browser, and e-mail program, and a chat program.

              Just because they dont make the same software doesn't mean their name isn't theirs. Were they around before the browser? I assume so (these are the people who make Phoenix BIOS?).

              To most people, the Phoenix web browser sounds like it is made by a company called PHOENIX. Regardless of its quality, you dont want someone else's product to be confused for your own. That sort of thing confuses people, and is why there is trademark law in the first place.

              Even if not, why should law be based around the stupidity of the masses?

              To most people, the Phoenix web browser sounds like it is made by a company called PHOENIX. Regardless of its quality, you dont want someone else's product to be confused for your own. That sort of thing confuses people, and is why there is trademark law in the first place. Joe Average isn't going to spend the time researching to verify a product is really made by who they think it was. Generally the first impression is as far as they go.

              So does Phoenix Technologies have a right to ask/demand they change the name? Sure. Hopefully they were nice enough to send a friendly letter rather than simply a "stop or we'll sue you" threat.

          • To be told more than anyone but a trademark lawyer would want to know, check out the USPTO's trademark page [uspto.gov], or their FAQ [uspto.gov].

            The question of ``trademarks for competing products'' is addressed in Trademark Acceptable Identification of Goods and Services Manual [uspto.gov], which lists all the different categories which will be considered for registration, from `Abacuses' to `Wholesale travel agencies'. (What, no zippers? :-) They've got five (5) subcategories of `Computer cursor control devices'---go look it up.

            The one that looks closest to Phoenix, the browser, is

            Computer software for accessing information directories that may be downloaded from the global computer network

            With that background, we can now check out Phoenix(the bozo)'s site [phoenix.com].

            Their full name is Phoenix Technologies, giving absolutely no clue as to what they actually make or do. We find mondo marketing buzzwordmanship (``Connect with Phoenix Technologies for Strategy2003'' ``undisputed device-enabling and management software leader'', &c.). The divisions listed on that front page are

            OEM/ODM

            System Builder
            Distributor/Reseller
            Software Developer
            Digging deeper reveals: Sonofabitch!, they're the Phoenix BIOS people, gone all upscale and gooey.

            Searching [uspto.gov] on ``Phoenix Technologies'' turns up three entries. two of which are still in use (``live''), with serial numbers

            Both are our pals', and both descriptions specify ``all sold to original equipment manufactures.'' The second one adds user manuals into the mix. As mentioned in an earlier post, there's a claim for ``interpretation of page description languages'', which I suspect means the BIOS can phone home for upgrades from a web site. It certainly doesn't sound like a general-purpose browser.

            (The raw entries (not the links above) also include:

            Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TECHNOLOGIES" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
            Too bad they didn't add ``Phoenix'' to it.)

            Thus, they build stuff no normal human would ever go looking for, so only a geek would have to ``care for the differentiation'', which is why it counts. Any conflict between the two Phoenixes is purely in the minds of the greedy.

            That said, of course, ramming it down their throats in a court of law is a lot more costly than a name change. However, if they could find a lawyer to write a letter pro bono, it might be enough to do the job.

            I certainly hope the browser folks give the letter a try.

        • If what you're proposing would be allowed, I'd still make sure that no one else in my industry is using my product name. Differentiation is a Good Thing.

          If it's within the same industry, people will get confused. Trust me on this. If you've ever had to handle tech support calls from irate users demanding support for a product made by a different company, you know how frustrating that can be.

          "I'm sorry sir, but you'll need to contact Widget Internet. We're Blodget Technologies."
          "But it says here on your web site that you provide support for Widget."
          "Sir, if you're having problems with your Internet service, than you need to contact your service provider."
          "That's not you? Your web site says that you provide computer connections."
          *sigh* "I'm sorry for the confusion, sir. The Widget that we support is a product that connects two computers, but that's a very different thing from an ISP like Widget Internet."
          etc., etc.

          • Your idea of how the law should work is based around the misconceptions of the ignorant, which is absurd.

            You think that two companies shouldn't be allowed to have names that sound alike, such as "Widget" and "Blodget"? This is nonsense.

            Trademark laws are supposed to exist for the benefit of consumers. More often than not, they work against consumers, and allow big corporate interests to split up the language among them. Coca Cola once threatened to sue a book-seller for putting the quote, "It's the real thing" on back of the book, as a promotion for it. Yes, I'm sure that the average consumer would go out meaning to buy a Coke and buy a book instead. This type of non-sense is all too typical.

            With regards to this specific case, no one has ever heard of Phoenix Technologies. I'm from NY and I've never heard of that company in my life. I doubt there are many other net-goers who had heard of it prior to this /. story. Yet, many of us had heard of the Phoenix, the Mozilla-based web browser. Perhaps Phoenix Technologies should change its name, as it isn't as well known as Phoenix.

            Why should we all have to change the way we refer to a software program because some company no-one's ever heard of before has a fit? If bothered with this trademark non-sense and tried to make sure that no-one had a trademark on a name before we named a software package something, we'd never have names for any software packages.

            Like I said, trademarks should benefit the consumer. Many of us have come to know Phoenix (Mozilla) by that name. Now Phoenix Technologies wants them to rename it. That will only confuse people who want to download Phoenix (Mozilla). So, how is this helping the consumer?
            • You think that two companies shouldn't be allowed to have names that sound alike, such as "Widget" and "Blodget"?

              No, I was suggesting that people will contact the company called "Widget" about a product called "Widget" even if the product "Widget" is made by a company called "Blodget". I guess this wasn't clear enough from the dialogue, but I guarantee that many people who've worked in the tech support trenches have had conversations like that.

              Like I said, trademarks should benefit the consumer. Many of us have come to know Phoenix (Mozilla) by that name. Now Phoenix Technologies wants them to rename it. That will only confuse people who want to download Phoenix (Mozilla). So, how is this helping the consumer?

              Um, isn't that the point of trademarks? To protect the name that consumers have come to know a product by?

              Anyway, it's most likely the Phoenix Technologies people are annoyed because people have been going to their site to download Phoenix, or calling their tech support line for support. I like the Phoenix browser and it's a pain if they have to change the name. My point was that it's better to have a unique name, regardless of trademark laws.

              • Yes, the point of trademark laws is to protect the name consumers have come to know a product by. Thus, it should protect Phoenix (Mozilla) before Phoenix Technologies, as most consumers know of Phoenix (Mozilla) but have never heard of Phoenix Technologies.
                • Yes, the point of trademark laws is to protect the name consumers have come to know a product by. Thus, it should protect Phoenix (Mozilla) before Phoenix Technologies, as most consumers know of Phoenix (Mozilla) but have never heard of Phoenix Technologies.

                  Huh? Are you actually saying that the USPTO should award trademarks to the more popular|bigger|more powerful guy regardless of who had the product name first?

                  Try substituting the name of your favorite Big Corporation for "Phoenix" in that statement and see if you still agree with it. Just for fun, lets try, oh I don't know, "Warner".

                  Thus, it should protect Warner (Time Warner) before Warner Technologies, as most consumers know of Warner (Time Warner) but have never heard of Warner Technologies.
                  How does that sound now?

                  So let me emend the previous statement: the point of trademark laws is to protect the name consumers will come to know a product by. That makes more sense, since names are usually trademarked when they are first used, before anyone has heard of them.

  • Just change the spelling a little... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Sherloqq ( 577391 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @10:00PM (#4622530)
    ... to, say, Feenyx / Feenics / Fienix or something.

    Just don't start a Hukt on Feenics marketing campaign.
    That might not "fly" too well, if ya know what I mean...

  • hmm... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by diesel_jackass ( 534880 ) <travis DOT hardiman AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @10:02PM (#4622540) Homepage Journal
    Mothra?
    Pterodactyl (sp)? Pterry?
    Ostrich?
    Emuzilla?

  • IE Killer! (Score:4, Informative)

    by rlowe69 ( 74867 ) <ryanlowe_AThotmailDOTcom> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @10:07PM (#4622568) Homepage
    Hmmm ... Mozilla is short for Mosaic Killer, right? What would Internet Explorer Killer be?

    Exiller
    Exilla
    Expilla
    Explilla
    Explolla
    Ex plorilla(*)

    *possible Trademark infringement (ie. they may be catching on at this point)
  • asshole
    dweebs
    employed by
    phoenix
    technologies

    so the adept browser.

  • Simurg! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I liked Simurg, from that list. Agent of goodwill from the gods, or something like that.
  • How about this for a name: "Boycott Phoenix Technologies because they are such fucking bastards Internet Browser."
  • How long before Stallman suggests GNU/Phoenix?

  • Phoenix Foundation? (Score:3, Funny)

    by CatWrangler ( 622292 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @10:51PM (#4622790) Journal
    MacGuyver isn't using that one anymore. Damn, I am a geek.
    • Yes, but has Richard Dean Anderson used "Phoenix Foundation" in Stargate SG-1? If he has & you can tell me all about it, you're Slashdot's "Geek of the Week".

      . . .

      I like that. "Geek of the Week" It rolls off of the tongue.

  • browzilla

    surfnix

    fred's browser

    YABWWAHTOF --yet another browser when we already have tons of them

    northgone--no really,this'll help obfuscate netscape evidence

    XbrowzX --why, it's da rulez you need an x in there someplace, just because

    interbrowznavplorerzilla

    We*B*browzin

    yomomsendmoney.browz

    coca ~ cola ...no, wait....

    they can use my name, call it browzogger, I don'tcare

    OK, these are from my friend plantlady on irc

    speedzone

    pumper

    gadabout

    hopper
    • How about the hummer browser, referring not to the car manufacturer but to the act... ;)
      • --hummer is cool, let em keep guessing though

        "Introducing.... the HUMMER BROWSER--go ANYPLACE on the olde intarweb, and have LOTSA FUN while ya do it"
  • was the name of their ill-fated BIOS based spyware [google.com] product. It was ahead of its time, apparently.
  • Since Mozilla is a mixture of Mosaic and Godzilla IIRC (hence the logo), Phoenix should change its name to some permutation or combination of Gecko (the rendering engine used in Phoenix and Mozilla) and Mothra (like Gozilla, Mothra is an icon of classic Japanese monster movies):

    Gethra
    Geckra
    Mothro
    Mothreck
    Geckzillathra
    etc.
  • You mad fool, don't you know Geocities and Slashdot don't mix!

  • From the list... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Da VinMan ( 7669 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @11:41PM (#4623082)
    I vote for "Anka".

    It's just like Phoenix, only it can carry off elephants (read between the lines here). ;+)

    According to the list:
    Anka
    Arctic mythical bird that was said to carry off elephants. It was also believed to live for 1700 years and, like the phoenix, had the ability to burn and renew itself.

    • Anka (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Thornae ( 53316 )
      I vote for "Anka".

      I second that vote. As well as being a cool mythological bird (like a cross between a phoenix and a roc), it's got a nice phonetic equivalence with "anchor" (as in <a href=etc>).
      • I thought so too. I was thinking more along the lines of "Ankh", like from the Indiana Jones movie. Nice subconscious message of being invaluable.

        Incidentally, I went over to MozillaZine and I didn't see a way to get this idea seen without getting buried in the pages upon pages of posts (no moderation system? /. has spoiled me.)

        Anyone know where to go with this?
    • Ankka means 'Duck' in Finnish, but why should anyone care..
    • Noooo! Please not Anka! That is "Duck" in Swedish.. Sounds terribly silly! ;)
    • Also, "anka" means "duck in swedish.

  • Just call it Jean Grey



    That was the worst thing I've ever posted! ;)

  • A mythical bird that brought peace and calmness to the sea. Staying with the mythical bird naming I think this would be a pretty nice name for a browser that could bring peace and calmness to the browser world :):):). Maybe not peace....
  • mozillai

  • Holy frug... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by grytpype ( 53367 ) on Friday November 08, 2002 @12:58AM (#4623395) Homepage
    >Maybe they could start with this list.

    That's actually a good suggestion. Some of those names are pretty bitchen... I especially like:

    Tlanuwa
    Cherokee name of a great magical hawk. According to the Natchez it's feathers were made of metal.
  • Come one name the thing Newt. Newt is a small lizard, mozilla.... well you get the idea.
  • ...but what about "Mozilla Lite". Because that's it. Everybody who has even heard of Mozilla (and I know many IE users who did) might want to try it then - even though it has a low version number. Because they somehow now that it is, in fact, Mozilla - but lighter. Brand recognition, right?

  • GNP... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    GNU Not Phoenix
  • "swift robber" or something

    plus, has that dinosaur theme
  • How about changing it to: PhoeNIXED

  • I kept waiting for someone to say it, but... so here it is: Less-Zilla?
  • How about:

    Earth Browser
    Wind Browser
    Fire Browser
    Water Browser
    Spirit Browser
    Stone Browser
    Star Browser
    Aurora Browser
    Tree Browser
    Ocean Browser
    Land Browser
    Hill Browser
    Field Browser ... and I could go on...
  • Brought Fire to man. An added bonus is that it starts with a P, and they could use the "She's on Fire" tune from GTA3/Scarface.

  • there is... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Charzilla
    Floatzilla
    Doublezilla
    Slashdotzilla (slashdot claims trademark infring..)
    Bloatzilla
    UnitedBrowser for UnitedLinux :/
    YAWB yet another web browser
    AllYourZillaAreBelongToUs
    Penix
    TuxZill a
    KaZilla
    etc........

  • no geek names (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jdkane ( 588293 ) on Saturday November 09, 2002 @12:10PM (#4632495)
    I say, forget the birds. A bird name and a dinosaur mascot don't make sense together, unless you are commenting on evolution (and that's just a theory).
    Also forget the "...zilla" because too many zillas already exist. People will be confused between Mozilla, Ghostzilla, This-zilla, That-zilla, not to mention the term "Mozilla" is included in every browser identity string. However Phoenix is the browser you want to target to the common user if you are competing against IE. So give it a fresh name.

    If you are going to keep the dinosaur (mozilla) pictorial reference then at least consider something more sensible like dinosaur names in order to target this browser in a meaningful way toward non-geek users. Or even change the mascot! .. if that's allowed by the License. For those who have pre-conceived negative ideas about Mozilla browsers, this might move them over to Phoenix based completely on its features rather than association.

    Over the last couple of months I have switched over to Phoenix from IE! (The exclamation mark indicates that I am very surprised because I never thought it would happen). I think this represents the first time (for myself) that another browser has been comparible enough to the broad functionality and ease-of-use of IE, such that I can finally switch over without feeling I am missing something. Mozilla/Phoenix is a great piece of work. The fast startup time and lack of UI complexity in Phoenix (compared to Nescape 7 or other Mozillas) was just the icing on the cake that I needed to finally go the Mozilla-based way. Microsoft had better get tabbed browsing soon or else I might never use IE again.

    Bring this great browser into the mainstream with a unique name that people will remember.

  • Ickypickypitang.

  • I've got a couple good name suggestions:

    SmallZilla
    TinyZilla

    but i think the best one would be LessZilla, you know, instead of MO zilla, you'd have Less.
  • /.
    The smallest dino discover so far is the MicroRaptor at 18cm and may or may not have had feathers.
    I like the micro part in that it definatly ties in with computers, and it ties in with the Phoenix Project goal of small.

    Of course there's nothing wrong with Slashzilla ; )
    I just feel that the whole zilla thing has had it's day, and Sony could get nasty about it again with little notice.

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