Phoenix Project Considers A Name Change 140
Magpie writes "Recently Blake Ross, a developer of the Phoenix web browser, has made a post on the Mozillazine forums looking for a new name for the project.
Apparently the people over at Phoenix Technologies decided that the name interferes with their trademark since they make an 'internet access device .'" Maybe they could start with this list.
Ho-ho! (Score:3, Interesting)
The name for the Japanese phoenix
Come on, wouldn't that sound great? "Yeah, you Run Internet Explorer 7.2, but *I* run "Ho ho oh-point-nine".
I was thinking something close. (Score:1)
Re:Ho-ho! (Score:2, Funny)
So that's why there are no more camels in Japan !
Re:Ho-ho! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Ho-ho! (Score:1)
It will delay the display of the page for a few hours to a day, and when it is displayed it will be brown and smell bad. Basicly it will make pages generated with Perl fell like they were generated with ASP.
Has anyone thought of.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Microzilla?
Nanozilla?
Picozilla?
Even better! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Even better! (Score:2)
I wonder where my glove will go...
Re:Even better! (Score:1)
Hey man!, this one is really good.
I like it!
I've got it! (Score:2)
Re:Has anyone thought of.... (Score:1)
-Andy
Re:Has anyone thought of.... (Score:1)
a small and cuta animal vith big ears and a fluffy tail
http://www.etc-etc.com/chin.htm
Re:Has anyone thought of.... (Score:1)
Mozookie of course! (Score:3, Funny)
Before it gets slashdotted... (Score:1)
Alicanto, Anka, Ba, Bennu, Feng-huang, Harpies, Heloha, Ho-Ho/ Ho-Oo, Hyrcinian birds, Karshipta, Melatha, Nunyanune, Pegais, Pheng, Phoenix, Poua-Kai, Roc/ Ruc/ Rukh, Shang-Yang, Simurg/ Senmurv, Skyamsen, Stymphalian Birds, Thunderbird, Tlanuwa, Ziz
Re:Before it gets slashdotted... (Score:1)
My personal favourite if it has to have wings is Seraphim.
Or you could just spell Phoenix differently: Fenix. Nah, sounds like an operating system.
Or how about Bennu, the Ancient Egyptian phoenix.
How about ... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How about ... (Score:2)
Christ, what bullshit (Score:3, Interesting)
The Phoenix browser will not be confused with things produced by Phoenix Technologies. And the Mozilla developers certainly didn't name it Phoenix to take advantage of the wide name recognition (sarcasm here) of Phoenix Technologies.
Trademarks should only come into issue between competing products which are the exact same type of product (i.e., two different web browsers).
Another case of companies getting in the way of progress.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2, Interesting)
Here we have a computer software and hardware company named Phoenix vs another bit of software named Phoenix.
"Wahh! I should be able to release my McDonalds Panini because when you think about it it's not actually burger!"
"This is type 6 washer screw -- don't they understand this computely different to a type 4 washer screw??"
And so on, with distinctions that only people in the industry know, and therefore not being the kind of distinctions that trademark law bothers with.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2)
Trademark should only apply to the very specific type of product that you have. Industries are huge places, and its absurd to speak of trademark violations when talking about a browser violating the trademarks of (say) an OS. There should be no exception for popular names.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2)
Even if not, why should law be based around the stupidity of the masses? Trademark law is bullshit and should be reformed.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:1)
You've demonstrated that you're not one to speak for the general public. You're completely out of touch.
Trademark law _in this case_ is quite sane.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2)
No, trademark law does not make sense in this case. Its just a way for corporations to divide up the dictionary amongst themselves. Goliath beating up on David.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2)
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:1)
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:1)
Just because they dont make the same software doesn't mean their name isn't theirs. Were they around before the browser? I assume so (these are the people who make Phoenix BIOS?).
To most people, the Phoenix web browser sounds like it is made by a company called PHOENIX. Regardless of its quality, you dont want someone else's product to be confused for your own. That sort of thing confuses people, and is why there is trademark law in the first place.
Even if not, why should law be based around the stupidity of the masses?
To most people, the Phoenix web browser sounds like it is made by a company called PHOENIX. Regardless of its quality, you dont want someone else's product to be confused for your own. That sort of thing confuses people, and is why there is trademark law in the first place. Joe Average isn't going to spend the time researching to verify a product is really made by who they think it was. Generally the first impression is as far as they go.
So does Phoenix Technologies have a right to ask/demand they change the name? Sure. Hopefully they were nice enough to send a friendly letter rather than simply a "stop or we'll sue you" threat.
Check out what the USPTO says about it... (Score:2)
To be told more than anyone but a trademark lawyer would want to know, check out the USPTO's trademark page [uspto.gov], or their FAQ [uspto.gov].
The question of ``trademarks for competing products'' is addressed in Trademark Acceptable Identification of Goods and Services Manual [uspto.gov], which lists all the different categories which will be considered for registration, from `Abacuses' to `Wholesale travel agencies'. (What, no zippers? :-) They've
got five (5) subcategories of `Computer cursor
control devices'---go look it up.
The one that looks closest to Phoenix, the browser, is
With that background, we can now check out Phoenix(the bozo)'s site [phoenix.com].
Their full name is Phoenix Technologies, giving absolutely no clue as to what they actually make or do. We find mondo marketing buzzwordmanship (``Connect with Phoenix Technologies for Strategy2003'' ``undisputed device-enabling and management software leader'', &c.). The divisions listed on that front page are
Digging deeper reveals: Sonofabitch!, they're the Phoenix BIOS people, gone all upscale and gooey.Searching [uspto.gov] on ``Phoenix Technologies'' turns up three entries. two of which are still in use (``live''), with serial numbers
(The raw entries (not the links above) also include:
Too bad they didn't add ``Phoenix'' to it.)Thus, they build stuff no normal human would ever go looking for, so only a geek would have to ``care for the differentiation'', which is why it counts. Any conflict between the two Phoenixes is purely in the minds of the greedy.
That said, of course, ramming it down their throats in a court of law is a lot more costly than a name change. However, if they could find a lawyer to write a letter pro bono, it might be enough to do the job.
I certainly hope the browser folks give the letter a try.
Re:Check out what the USPTO says about it... (Score:2)
Hrmmm...that does add a bit to the mix. But their words are ``designed specifically for the ... Information Appliance market and is ... suited for ... digital devices.''
They're embedding the thing---a very different operation from building an end-user application for a general-purpose computer. (Would you consider embedding Phoenix? :-)
Now the interesting points are:
Google finds nothing for ``firstview connect 1'' (or 1.0), the earliest to turn up [google.com] is 2.0 in a Real Networks press release [macromedia.com] dated 1 November 2001.
Phoenix-the-browser released 0.1 all of two months ago (September 2002), but there's a reference [tripod.com] to a (likely unrelated) ``Phoenix browser'' dated 6 January 2000. (It's about half-way down the page.) If anyone has cause to gripe, it's those folks!
I still claim there's zero point zero chance of the products being confused in the minds of their customers, in either of the two completely-separate target markets. And trademark protection is supposed to be about confusion and mis-perception, not attempted ownership of a word.
Ever work in tech support? (Score:2)
If it's within the same industry, people will get confused. Trust me on this. If you've ever had to handle tech support calls from irate users demanding support for a product made by a different company, you know how frustrating that can be.
"I'm sorry sir, but you'll need to contact Widget Internet. We're Blodget Technologies."
"But it says here on your web site that you provide support for Widget."
"Sir, if you're having problems with your Internet service, than you need to contact your service provider."
"That's not you? Your web site says that you provide computer connections."
*sigh* "I'm sorry for the confusion, sir. The Widget that we support is a product that connects two computers, but that's a very different thing from an ISP like Widget Internet."
etc., etc.
Re:Ever work in tech support? (Score:2)
You think that two companies shouldn't be allowed to have names that sound alike, such as "Widget" and "Blodget"? This is nonsense.
Trademark laws are supposed to exist for the benefit of consumers. More often than not, they work against consumers, and allow big corporate interests to split up the language among them. Coca Cola once threatened to sue a book-seller for putting the quote, "It's the real thing" on back of the book, as a promotion for it. Yes, I'm sure that the average consumer would go out meaning to buy a Coke and buy a book instead. This type of non-sense is all too typical.
With regards to this specific case, no one has ever heard of Phoenix Technologies. I'm from NY and I've never heard of that company in my life. I doubt there are many other net-goers who had heard of it prior to this
Why should we all have to change the way we refer to a software program because some company no-one's ever heard of before has a fit? If bothered with this trademark non-sense and tried to make sure that no-one had a trademark on a name before we named a software package something, we'd never have names for any software packages.
Like I said, trademarks should benefit the consumer. Many of us have come to know Phoenix (Mozilla) by that name. Now Phoenix Technologies wants them to rename it. That will only confuse people who want to download Phoenix (Mozilla). So, how is this helping the consumer?
Re:Ever work in tech support? (Score:2)
No, I was suggesting that people will contact the company called "Widget" about a product called "Widget" even if the product "Widget" is made by a company called "Blodget". I guess this wasn't clear enough from the dialogue, but I guarantee that many people who've worked in the tech support trenches have had conversations like that.
Um, isn't that the point of trademarks? To protect the name that consumers have come to know a product by?
Anyway, it's most likely the Phoenix Technologies people are annoyed because people have been going to their site to download Phoenix, or calling their tech support line for support. I like the Phoenix browser and it's a pain if they have to change the name. My point was that it's better to have a unique name, regardless of trademark laws.
Re:Ever work in tech support? (Score:2)
Re:Ever work in tech support? (Score:2)
Huh? Are you actually saying that the USPTO should award trademarks to the more popular|bigger|more powerful guy regardless of who had the product name first?
Try substituting the name of your favorite Big Corporation for "Phoenix" in that statement and see if you still agree with it. Just for fun, lets try, oh I don't know, "Warner".
How does that sound now?So let me emend the previous statement: the point of trademark laws is to protect the name consumers will come to know a product by. That makes more sense, since names are usually trademarked when they are first used, before anyone has heard of them.
Re:Christ, what bullshit (Score:2)
Just change the spelling a little... (Score:3, Funny)
Just don't start a Hukt on Feenics marketing campaign.
That might not "fly" too well, if ya know what I mean...
"Fenix" is taken (Score:1)
"Fenix" [io.com] is taken, as the publisher of a Win32 to ARM7TDMI cross-compiler distribution [io.com] used by many GBA software developers [gbadev.org].
hmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
Pterodactyl (sp)? Pterry?
Ostrich?
Emuzilla?
Re:hmm... (Score:2)
Mothra (Score:1)
How about a Tick reference: Arthur
Re:hmm... (Score:2)
You can even say: This browser is one Mothra!
IE Killer! (Score:4, Informative)
Exiller
Exilla
Expilla
Explilla
Explolla
E
*possible Trademark infringement (ie. they may be catching on at this point)
Re:IE Killer! (Score:2)
Re:IE Killer! (Score:5, Funny)
Explorer Killer
Explorer Killa
Exilla
Xilla
Zilla
So you end up with Zilla. If Zilla's not enough browser for you, get Mo'Zilla.
Come on vote this up insightful (Score:1, Troll)
I was worried about the Phoenix name - now i had just convinced my friends to use Mozilla, i have to tell them to change to Phoenix instead.
But if the new name is Zilla, well - half of the work is already done! 8)
Mod parent and grandparent up (Score:1)
adept... (Score:2)
dweebs
employed by
phoenix
technologies
so the adept browser.
that's taken too (Score:1)
a[...]d[...]e[...]p[...]t[...]
Adept Technology Inc. [adept.com] might get upset about that one.
Simurg! (Score:1, Interesting)
New name (Score:1)
Continuing the trend (Score:1)
Phoenix Foundation? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Phoenix Foundation? (Score:2)
. . .
I like that. "Geek of the Week" It rolls off of the tongue.
names (Score:2)
surfnix
fred's browser
YABWWAHTOF --yet another browser when we already have tons of them
northgone--no really,this'll help obfuscate netscape evidence
XbrowzX --why, it's da rulez you need an x in there someplace, just because
interbrowznavplorerzilla
We*B*browzin
yomomsendmoney.browz
coca ~ cola
they can use my name, call it browzogger, I don'tcare
OK, these are from my friend plantlady on irc
speedzone
pumper
gadabout
hopper
Re:names (Score:1)
Re:names (Score:2)
"Introducing.... the HUMMER BROWSER--go ANYPLACE on the olde intarweb, and have LOTSA FUN while ya do it"
phoenix.net (Score:1)
My vote is for (Score:1)
Gethra
Geckra
Mothro
Mothreck
Geckzillathra
etc.
Re:My vote is for (Score:1)
Re:My vote is for (Score:1)
Actually, Mozilla is short for Mosaic Killer, the beast came later to fit the name.
Geocities and Slashdot (Score:2)
From the list... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's just like Phoenix, only it can carry off elephants (read between the lines here).
According to the list:
Anka
Arctic mythical bird that was said to carry off elephants. It was also believed to live for 1700 years and, like the phoenix, had the ability to burn and renew itself.
Anka (Score:3, Interesting)
I second that vote. As well as being a cool mythological bird (like a cross between a phoenix and a roc), it's got a nice phonetic equivalence with "anchor" (as in <a href=etc>).
Re:Anka (Score:2)
Incidentally, I went over to MozillaZine and I didn't see a way to get this idea seen without getting buried in the pages upon pages of posts (no moderation system?
Anyone know where to go with this?
Re:From the list... (Score:2)
Re:From the list... (Score:2)
Re:From the list... (Score:2)
Re:From the list... (Score:1)
X-Men (Score:2)
Just call it Jean Grey
That was the worst thing I've ever posted! ;)
How about HALCYON (Score:1)
why not (Score:1)
Holy frug... (Score:3, Interesting)
That's actually a good suggestion. Some of those names are pretty bitchen... I especially like:
Tlanuwa
Cherokee name of a great magical hawk. According to the Natchez it's feathers were made of metal.
Re:Holy frug... (Score:2, Funny)
Sounds like an aeroplane to me..
Newt! (Score:1)
May sound lame... (Score:1)
Re:May sound lame... (Score:1)
Re:May sound lame... (Score:1)
Re:May sound lame... (Score:1)
Anyways, no need to change name. Apple Computer is not related to the Abbey Road Apple. Buying Nokia to your car? Then you are buying tires, not cell phones.
Re:May sound lame... (Score:1)
Re:May sound lame... (Score:1)
GNP... (Score:1, Funny)
Velociraptor? (Score:2)
plus, has that dinosaur theme
Pterodactyl (Score:2)
How about... (Score:1)
Obvious? (Score:2)
how about (Score:1)
Earth Browser
Wind Browser
Fire Browser
Water Browser
Spirit Browser
Stone Browser
Star Browser
Aurora Browser
Tree Browser
Ocean Browser
Land Browser
Hill Browser
Field Browser
Prometheus (Score:1)
there is... (Score:1, Interesting)
Floatzilla
Doublezilla
Slashdotzilla (slashdot claims trademark infring..)
Bloatzilla
UnitedBrowser for UnitedLinux
YAWB yet another web browser
AllYourZillaAreBelongToUs
Penix
TuxZil
KaZilla
etc........
no geek names (Score:3, Insightful)
Also forget the "...zilla" because too many zillas already exist. People will be confused between Mozilla, Ghostzilla, This-zilla, That-zilla, not to mention the term "Mozilla" is included in every browser identity string. However Phoenix is the browser you want to target to the common user if you are competing against IE. So give it a fresh name.
If you are going to keep the dinosaur (mozilla) pictorial reference then at least consider something more sensible like dinosaur names in order to target this browser in a meaningful way toward non-geek users. Or even change the mascot! .. if that's allowed by the License. For those who have pre-conceived negative ideas about Mozilla browsers, this might move them over to Phoenix based completely on its features rather than association.
Over the last couple of months I have switched over to Phoenix from IE! (The exclamation mark indicates that I am very surprised because I never thought it would happen). I think this represents the first time (for myself) that another browser has been comparible enough to the broad functionality and ease-of-use of IE, such that I can finally switch over without feeling I am missing something. Mozilla/Phoenix is a great piece of work. The fast startup time and lack of UI complexity in Phoenix (compared to Nescape 7 or other Mozillas) was just the icing on the cake that I needed to finally go the Mozilla-based way. Microsoft had better get tabbed browsing soon or else I might never use IE again.
Bring this great browser into the mainstream with a unique name that people will remember.
The Browser that says Neeh (Score:2)
Possible names (Score:1)
SmallZilla
TinyZilla
but i think the best one would be LessZilla, you know, instead of MO zilla, you'd have Less.
Suggestion go small go dinosaur (Score:2)
The smallest dino discover so far is the MicroRaptor at 18cm and may or may not have had feathers.
I like the micro part in that it definatly ties in with computers, and it ties in with the Phoenix Project goal of small.
Of course there's nothing wrong with Slashzilla ; )
I just feel that the whole zilla thing has had it's day, and Sony could get nasty about it again with little notice.
Re:"Geoduck"? (Score:1)
Re:"Geoduck"? (Score:1)
Hydra, the many headed wonder.
Chimera is taken by the Mac/Moz derivative.
Or to break from the Greek Mythos, and go Norse:
Fenris, the wolf "held down by the unbreakable bonds"
Odin, Thor, Tyr, Baldur, Bragi, Sif (all easy to type).
To follow Egyptian Mythos, Ptah, Seker, or my personal favorite, Thoth.
Re:"Geoduck"? (Score:2)
Please, not hydra!! (Score:2)
Every time you closed a window, two more would open before you could blink.
Re:"Geoduck"? (Score:3, Informative)
Gee, we sure are learning a lot about gastropods today!
link [wa.gov]
Re:"Geoduck"? (Score:1)
Need. Moderating. Points. (Score:1)